Arafat is dead--11 November 2004

Subject: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: Peace
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 10:30 AM

Just like the title says. Heard it from someone at work.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: The Beast of Farlington
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 11:02 AM

Not dead yet, but only hours to live, according to bbc.co.uk/news

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 11:13 AM

I sure hope so. And France harbors terrorists like him.

Bring on someone from Palestine who has some common sense, please.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: mg
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 11:17 AM

I hope it is true. I read, and I think it was in an Israeli newspaper, that the French government had given them until Tuesday afternoon to declare him dead, and then a couple of days to get him totally gone. This charade, if that is what it is, is making them look medically foolish. But it has been done, I think, with good intentions...to let things not get out of hand. Even if there are eruptions etc...I think it is so much for the best. A natural death in a foreign country....May he rest in peace and may less corrupt and less fanatical men and women follow in his place. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 11:25 AM

Yeah, they've probably got him on life support so it's actually a philosophical question whether he's dead or not. And how are they going to honor the 24-hour deadline to get him buried when they will also want an autopsy to show that he wasn't murdered by the French? Does Sharon's permission to return include after death?

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 11:32 AM

It sure doesn't include permission to bury hin in Jeruselem where he wanted,,,can you imagine the scene as they try to have a service and/or put up a monument?

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 11:34 AM

Actually they'll want the autopsy to prove that he wasn't killed by Massad or any Isreali group (induced sickness or poison). A nice quiet death from natural causes would be preferred rather than him becoming a martyr to the cause.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 12:29 PM

I don't think the Israelis will allow a burial anywhere in the territories. Maybe a nice, quiet cemetary just outside Paris, like Jim Morrison.

Say what you will about Arafat, but he did more to bring the plight of the Palestinians to the world stage and showed the Israelis to be the military wing of the US government in the Middle East more than anyone, and that will be his legacy.

And that ain't a bad legacy.

But he has been ineffective for a long time. Which is why the Israelis have been so trigger happy killing off the Hamas leadership. The PLO is well past the use-by date, it's been Hamas running the show for a long time, which will also continue for a long time to come. No matter how big the Israelic concentration camp gets.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: Nerd
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 12:57 PM

I thought The Israelis had approved a burial in the Gaza Strip, with access for Palestinian and other Arab leaders through Israel. I read it somewhere, but it may not be true!

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 01:03 PM

I don't know Nerd, I haven't been following this very closely. But I would be surprised at this point if the Israelis allowed Arafat's body to be returned. I believe Arafat's remains should be immediately returned, but who knows what his batty wife if gonna do? She is the one, under French law, who calls those shots, not the Palestinian OR Israeli leadership.

I suppose there is a chance that arrangements have already been made between Palestinians, French, and some other nations we aren't aware of right now, for him to be buried someplace like Tunisia or Jordan, perhaps.

We'll all know soon enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 01:08 PM

This has been a story worthy of Agatha Christie. Poison has always seemed like an option when listening to descriptions of his symptoms.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 01:14 PM

God, you do love conspiracy theories doncha SRS?

It couldn't possibly be that a 70 year old man with a lot of medical problems and lack of access to adequate health care for years and a lot of money stashed in Swiss bank accounts couldn't just be dying, and his not-exactly aggrieved widow pulling strings to make sure it all goes here way, the people be damned?

C'mon. Machiavellan political drama is much more interesting that paranoid conspiracy theory crap!

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 03:43 PM

Well, I hope he doesn't rest in peace. He should rot in hell.

No one I know is going to sit shiva for him or do a yiskir service for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 04:11 PM

"We'll all know soon enough."

Oh god, I hope I haven't cursed us. I just remembered Franco's lengthy departure.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: GUEST,Karl Shove
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 04:14 PM

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/arrujudged.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: Kim C
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 05:40 PM

From the Monty Python thread:

"But I'm not dead yet."

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 05:57 PM

Unless I'm badly mistaken, Muslims don't do autopsies. When I was still in the Air Force, there was an ambassador from an African country who died a few hours after eating at an officers' club. They didn't rule out poisoning (simply because he was a VIP and there was a dinner in the next room of a group comprised of very NOT Muslim people). We had to take samples of every [expletive deleted] type of leftover food and send them off for testing. I made a comment that if he were poisoned, it would likely show up in the autopsy, and that's when I was told about Muslims not believing in autopsies. (None of the foods contained poisons,and it was believed he'd had a heart attack.)

Also, I thought I'd inform everybody of the latest news: As of this very second, Arafat is still possibly not dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 06:05 PM

An autopsy could confirm tertiary syphilis, n'est-ce pas?

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 06:14 PM

the current concern

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 06:18 PM

As of the news at 11.00pm GMT, he's in a coma, he had a brain haemorrage and there are no plans to turn off any life support at the moment.

Don't try and bury folks before time.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 08:45 PM

The suggestion that the Israeli secret service might have poisoned Arafat isn't actually in the least improbable - there have been several previous attempts on him, and at least one other Palestinian leader.

That doesn't in itself mean that it is the true explanation this time, just that the suggestion shouldn't be seen as a wild-eyed conspiracy theory.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 08:55 PM

Well at least he brought the dish rag onto the fashion scene.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 08:57 PM

If you remove that schmatta, you will probably find what is killing him.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 04:34 AM

A man like him doesn't just die like other people. The question who gets (access to) the embezzled billions and the question who gets to the power after him will determine when his death will be announced. If you have seen the clinic speokesman the last days you couldn't avoid the impression that between the lines he always telegraphed that he is not allowed to speak the truth.

His death at this moment doesn't suit the Israelis (before the wall is finished), Sharon felt better with Arafat in power because that gave him the reason to be uncompromising. That's why I do not believe the Israeli connection to be probable (and not because they never would if they wanted).

His death willofficially be announced when it suits one of the warring factions (I include here his wife) and that will be very soon I guess.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 05:00 AM

If you have seen the clinic speokesman the last days you couldn't avoid the impression that between the lines he always telegraphed that he is not allowed to speak the truth. It's quite a surprise to see such fanciful rubbish coming from Wolfgang.

Martin Gibson and his ilk make me hope even more that the Palestinians will come out of this with a leader as strong as Arafat once was and who will be as effective in keeping their cause on the world stage until it is fairly resolved.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: Peace
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 10:22 AM

It seems I have started an argument here, and such was not my intent.

I however do hope that the money that crook took from the Palestinian people gets BACK to the Palestinian people.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: GUEST,Skeptic
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 10:45 AM

Arafat and his associates have been responsible for putting their cause on the world stage by quite often killing innocent people (mostly Jews). This is some way to prove a just cause! I believe they should have a state but The Palestinian cause lost me and my sympathy way back when they murdered the Isreali athletes at the Olympics.
He has constantly blown his legimate chances of negotiating real peace and has put his own Palestinian people in despair for more than a generation because of the consequences. Now a new generation who knows nothing about living a peaceful and prosperous life will probably want to continue the hatred toward their Jewish neighbors without end. He runs a corrupt government and cannot seem to shake the freedom fighter terrorist struggle that he supports. This is their Palestinian Hero. He has been an utter failure for his people- and the results are obvious, and why so many in the world can't see that is beyond me. Hopefully some brighter and genuine leaders who can seriously negotiate peace will emerge and positive changes can happen on both the Israeli and Palestinian sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: Once Famous
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 10:48 AM

Spoken like a true anti-semite, Peter K

Got anyone from Hamas you want to nominate?

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: GUEST,Ron Burgundy
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 11:08 AM

I have several leather bound books and an apartment that smells of sweet mahogany

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 11:47 AM

I read earlier that Israel has decided to let Arafat be buried back in Ramallah. I think this was a wise idea.

I haven't looked for any new news, so I don't know if he's actually passed yet.

I do hope that whoever takes over the mantle, it happens sooner than later, and that he (I doubt it'll be a she) will be open to some kind of peace process.

It's been such a sad and tragic mess for so long.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 11:54 AM

In the end, of course, he'll be buried once again in Jerusalem. That's how these things work in the long run.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 11:59 AM

I too heard that the Israelis will allow him to be buried in Ramallah, and that the funeral may be held in Cairo.

We'll see what the wife has to say about all of it, eh? Like it or not, she seems to be in control of the legacy making for now.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 12:16 PM

while he is in France, his wife is in FULL control...French law. Later...who knows?

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: DougR
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 02:02 PM

Arafat has been dying for days, brucie. I think I heard it on television.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 02:44 PM

Peter K,

if I hear a spokesman (in the full report) using qualifiers in his speech of the type "as far as I can disclose" or "I have been asked to..." I take that an indication that they are at least not telling the whole truth. If that's rubbish to you, weel, what can I say.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: freda underhill
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 03:55 PM

according to the Arab Monitor, he's gone.


The Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat passed away

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead
From: freda underhill
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 04:22 PM

see above

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 04:50 PM

"Arafat is dying" - everybody is dying, Doug, apart from the ones who are already dead. "Dying" is really another way of saying "alive".

Just thought I'd add that cheerful reminder...

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: Once Famous
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 05:13 PM

Now that's a fine piece of pretzel logic.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: Peace
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 07:37 PM

So, where'd he stash the Palestinian loot?

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: Peace
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 07:55 PM

Well, it's confirmed. He is or he isn't dead. Truthfully, I haven't been able to tell the difference for a few years, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: vectis
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 08:22 PM

They should bury the bugger in Egypt where he came from.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: mg
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 08:53 PM

I had always heard he was Egyptian but recently I heard his family was from Gaza and I think they said he was born there..not sure..seems he was mostly reared in Egypt at least. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 08:53 PM

According to latest BBC News, he's had a brain heammorage, he's in a coma, his liver and kidneys have stopped working and he's on a life support machine to keep him breathing, apart from that he's ok.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: GUEST,Obie
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 09:07 PM

When the bastard is dead countries of the world will send delegations to his funeral. Huge crowds will march through streets wailing and crying. He and Osama are cut from the same cloth, but we give him the Nobel prize. Go figure...........
      Obie

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 09:22 PM

Martin, no need to look for excuses for why I don't like your take on Arafat. Such a small-minded, embittered attitude is more than worthy of my contempt in its own right.

Most of the Jews I know here in the UK and elsewhere in Europe are well to the left on the political spectrum (the proper left rather than the Kerry left). They are supportive of a properly independent Palestine and are horrified at what Israel (thanks to the US) does in their name. Many of them would regard people like Noam Chomsky and the late Edward Said as eloquent spokesmen for their views. I'm wary about generalising, but in my own limited experience Jews seem a fairly decent sort. (I don't care for their religion, of course, but it's not the worst.)

On the other hand there are non-Jewish politicians in the US who are only too eager to sign up to your line, if that's what it takes to get elected. I despise them for that. I guess that makes me anti-Gentile as well as anti-Semite in your simple little world.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 11:02 PM

Just heard it officially announced he's assuming room temperature.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 11:03 PM

Now someone here can post a flowery obit about how he was working for peace along with Saint Pancake.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 11:14 PM

He wasn't working for peace. He was working for independence for his people. If you hate Palestinians, obviously you'll see that as a bad thing. If you don't hate Palestinians, you'll see it as the tragedy it was/is.

Subject: RE: BS: Arafat dead--unconfirmed at this moment.
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 11:18 PM

...or rather, you'll see the fact that the Palestinians needed/need someone to work for their independence as the tragedy it was and is.