BS: How soon next American Civil War ?

Subject: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: GUEST,star strangled banner
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 09:12 AM

inevitable, inescapeable,in our life time ???

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Pied Piper
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 09:25 AM

I think it's unlikely; after all it's never mentioned in Star Trek.
PP

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 09:36 AM

The major hostilities have come to an end but the original war of the mindsets wages on.

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 11:16 AM

Maybe it's more of an American Uncivil War, and it's currently under way?

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 11:29 AM

Oh, fer...!

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 11:32 AM

Can we do East against the West this time? I hate repeats.

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Jim Tailor
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 11:38 AM

'twill all be staged "virtually" this time.

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: robomatic
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 04:10 PM

No thanks, Guest, we already had one, but thanks for the thought.

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Teresa
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 04:17 PM

Hmmm. Frightening thought, but as long as we can wage free speech on the Internet and in public discourse, I think folks will vent their spleens in a somewhat-less dangerous way. If speech or action is driven underground, that's when it gets more dangerous.

I have to concede that much about the U.S.   we still have some semblance of free speech at the moment.

Teresa

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 06:04 PM

It's going on now. Pat Buchanan called it a "culture war" and it's very much in evidence. The election of Bush indicates this. It's the smallest margin of victory by any president ever.

Don't forget that there are many who live in the supposed "Red States" that did not vote for Bush. The "Red/Blue" thing was a newscaster construction and has no real validity.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Teresa
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 06:11 PM

Thank you, Frank. I live in Nevada and didn't vote for Bush. :>

Teresa

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Amos
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 06:16 PM

It will be between those who believe in the freedom of memes and those who wish to be held captive by theirs, or to hold theirs captive, qwhichever comes first.

A

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 06:17 PM

Spectacular insight, Pied Piper! Gold star for you! :-)

Actually, the American 2-party $ySStem IS a war...one which fights repeated useless and almost meaningless battles for the minds and hearts of America every 2 and 4 years.

And the whole exercise is merely to dupe people into imagining that they have a choice and a voice in running their country. They most certainly do NOT. They are a controlled and regulated population, spoonfed on a diet of unreality from the cradle to the grave.

Lincoln said, "You can't fool all the people all the time."

But if you can fool most of them, that's good enough for the $ySStem to maintain itself in power. The best way to keep them fooled is to divide them against one another through the 2-party $ySStem, and give them a foreign "enemy" to fear and fight. Works every time.

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 06:20 PM

Depends on whether or not the Repub ideologues have finally stacked the deck so perminently as to prevent the usual swings in the pedulum. With their illegeal redisrrictings and Election brought to you by Diebold, this may have allready occured. If so, what I see is about 2 more election cycles and Dems will get fed up and become radicalized, much the way the Repubs are now: radicalized...

Will this produce Civil War? Probably not, but what may very well happen is assasinations by redicalized lefties against the Repub. idelogues, much the way the right wing offed so many lefties in the 60's... And this should get the stuck pendulum swinging back toward progressive solutions...

Sad to have to come to that but, hey, greedy folks don't back away from the trough until they are nudged...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 06:24 PM

Thank you, Frank. I live in Florida and didn't vote for Bush.

I was told in college that America's Civil War is a misnomer. It wasn't technically a civil war. It was a revolution. Don't ask me the difference. I'm sure those academic types know more about such things than a lowly potter/guitar player. Seems sorta like splittin' hairs or pickin' the fly shit outta the pepper to me.

Revolution... Civil war... Doesn't make much difference what ya call it if you're on the wrong end of a bullet.

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 06:33 PM

Yes, you could say it was a revolution, launched by Southerners, who saw their political and financial power being lost to the industrialized and more populous North and wanted out. The revolutionaries lost that one.

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 06:43 PM

Ahhhhh, LH, it wasn't strictly a revoultion by Southerners. Lincoln certainluy pushed one button after after another. He could have prevented it but choze, much like Bush has in Iraq, to promote it...

And, Civil? As Bee-Dubya-Ell has reminded us, it wasn't. I live 20 miles from Antietum Battlefield where the bloodiest day of the war occured.... Once a year they light a candle for every man who died that day... Nothing civil about it....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 07:03 PM

The first American Civil War surely was the war of secession generally referred to as the American Revolution.

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 07:35 PM

Well, yes, that is also true. No, wait, the first North American Civil War was the French and Indian War...with the French and Hurons on one side, the English and Iroquois on the other (and some other Indians were involved too).

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 07:41 PM

As soon as possible please

(ducks)

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: pdq
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 07:48 PM

Ron Olesko -

We can make this a bloodless 'war' if your side will agree to take both Newark and Hackensack. And we want that in writing!

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Auggie
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 11:27 PM

Just take Bush and we'll learn to live with Hackensack, Newark, and even East St. Louis

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Kaleea
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 11:37 PM

Umm, hows'z about if some of us in the radical center encourage others to join us in the radical center for some nice polite Musical fun. Then maybe some of the folks who are way out in the left or right OOPS I mean red & blue will come in from the hot & cold & play some Music along with us. Pretty soon, maybe folks'd be havin' too much fun to go back out in the hot & cold all the time to stay & they'd just hang around with us in the radical center.
   Well, I can dream, can't I.

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 11:38 PM

What about Schenectady?

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Bert
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 12:33 AM

Then there's Dalhart and Dumas, we'll give those over without a fight.

Might just hang on to Texline though.

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Sorcha
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 01:13 AM

Do we get guns for fee? Do we get to shoot at the red states? Uh Oh, the FBI will find me for this.

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: DougR
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 02:06 AM

Some folks really know how to start a funny thread.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 02:15 AM

Sorcha,

Sorry, the Left has traditionally been AGAINST Second Amendment rights, so only the conservatives get to be armed.... But they can try to talk the Right to death...


You will be a victim of unintended circumstances.




Bobert,

". He (Lincoln) could have prevented it but choze, much like Bush has in Iraq, to promote it..."


So you think that Bush is acting like Lincoln? Next thing you know, you'll be comparing the invasion of Iraq to the sending of Federal troops into the South during the Civil Rights demonstrations... Forcing unwanted laws on a proud and independent people... ( sarcasm)

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 03:22 PM

Don't envy the casting director, Bush as Jefferson Davis presumably, who gets to play Honest Abe?

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 03:26 PM

Don't envy the casting director, Bush as Jefferson Davis presumably, who gets to play Honest Abe?

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 06:03 PM

Bert, remember that Dumas is full of Ding-Dong-Daddies. They are famous for NOT giving up without a fight. And the folks in Dalhart (Dumas, too, actually) get inured to hardships because they get serious, Great Plains winters and have to survive them.

Don't Mess With Texas, guys.         Tw

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 06:18 PM

But now that Kinky Friedman is running for Governor of Texas things change...

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 06:30 PM

I'm all for Da Kinkster. I know he's doing it (partly) because he needs more closet space. But I have trouble seeing him in the Greek Revival gov's mansion in downtown Austin. It'll be easier when he has to move in, I suppose....       Tw

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 07:41 PM

Bit premature.

The first one's still being carried on south of Maryland.

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: mg
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 08:02 PM

Little Hawk, you freely insult some decent people. mg

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Bert
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 08:19 PM

Just kidding Tw! It's just that you drive through the panhandle looking for a town and when you get there, it's Dalhart.

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 07:39 PM

I am not against Second Amendment rights, BB, and I am very much on the Left. I would never dream of comparing the invasion of Iraq to the sending of Federal troops into the South during the Civil Rights demonstrations... I compare it to the invasion of Poland in '39. Poland was not all that democractic at the time, but it was innocent of being any real threat to Germany, and it was massively attacked under false pretences by the German armed forces and government. Ordinary Germans (decent people on the whole) were mostly convinced that there had to be a good reason for it...

Mary? Really? Which decent people in particular? There are a great many decent people out there, after all...

Most people are decent people, I find. They deserve better leadership than they are getting.

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: number 6
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 07:47 PM

tomorrow.

Then again maybe not.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 07:53 PM

If there were much of any possibility of a shooting war, it'd already be on. Propaganda war, "culture war," and terrorism/assasination are all so much easier and more effective.

Also, we do still have open discourse ("free speech"), and ~ although it sometimes seems feeble in contrast to corporate-sponsored mass media propaganda ~ it cannot be stopped in the Age of Communication. That's one reason I'm basically optimistic about the long-term future, even though I'm skeptical and somewhat curmudgeonly about many immediate issues.

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Peace
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 08:13 PM

America may be in the midst of one now. There seems to be a concerted effort to 'win the hearts and minds' (which I interpret to mean the "votes" (I am aware the election is over and that President Bush won)) of the American people. I expect there will be some softening of the Bush pre-election position, and I expect that both parties will give some effort to reach a greater percent of the American people. Regardless of the way anyone voted, I think all parties--and subsequently all people--will have to take a good look at the condition of the United Staes: its social programs and its war footing/mentality. The center cannot hold. The USA cannot keep spending money the way it is, because the American people are gradually becoming unwilling to see their cash wasted in that manner--that is, squandered.

The USA, IMO, is a great nation, but the philosophy that got it to greatness has to be looked at again, refreshed and reiterated. Despite one's feeling about Bush/Kerry/Nader, the problems the world faces will require American leadership, and Americans should gird themselves to be compassionate leaders. If they do not, they will face a reluctant enemy that goes beyond the Muslim world--that includes other democracies, because the bully mentality, obfuscation, BS and lies are becoming quite transparent. When a great nation's motives are not clear, people get very nervous. I don't doubt that the US could control most of the world; in fact, it does. But much of that control depends on the willing participation of allies, other countries with similar aims, and the coalition just ain't all that solid and unified right now.

If the factions could step back from the vitriol, they might find ways to work together that involve a cooperative approach to problem solving, because the "I have this stick and I will beat you with it if you don't do as I say" mentality no longer cuts it. I think over the next few years that the people of the US will have to face that. Otherwise, there likely will be a civil war that follows not party lines but poverty lines. Is is disgraceful that the richest country on Earth has homeless people, hungry people and people for whom there is either no medical care of poor medical care. Bush/Kerry/Nader should all feel terrible about that. Yes, the election is over, but the things which scar the greatest country in the world continue to exist, and that, my friend, is ugly.

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 08:20 PM

Boyhowdy--step back from the vitriol!!!! There's a PLAN -- for living, imho.            Tw

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Feb 05 - 05:45 AM

Boyhowdy?

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Feb 05 - 12:18 PM

Good to know TW, hope you're following the plan

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Feb 05 - 03:08 PM

A friend of mine told me that she overheard two women on the bus talking about the difficulties that they experience. One of them said "Girl, I had a nervous breakdown, but I was too busy to pay much attention to it".

I'm no psychologist, but it sure seems to me that the United States is in the midst of an ethical breakdown. And I wonder if this nation is already involved in a Civil War between the rich and poor, but most people are too busy to take notice because their attention has been diverted by Superballs & shopaholic holidays & other 'take-their-minds-of-the-real-deal' stuff..

I'm just sayin...


Ms. Azizi

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: DougR
Date: 04 Feb 05 - 03:31 PM

No doubt aboout it, Azizi, the sky is truly falling. Some of us just have difficulty recognizing it.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Peace
Date: 04 Feb 05 - 03:35 PM

Doug, ya gotta have somethin' better than a quote from Chicken Little. G A W D.

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Peace
Date: 04 Feb 05 - 03:41 PM

DougR,

This may come as a surprise: not all people are as fortunate of you. Maybe you think the poverty that happens is what people deserve. I do not agree. Sometimes things are beyond one's control. Most poor people do not have a friggin' choice. Next time you speak with your heart--ask it if poverty is a choice people willingly opt for.

Bruce M

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Feb 05 - 03:51 PM

If Doug R had been born as an impoverished black or hispanic or "poor white trash" kid...in a 3 room tenement full of cockroaches...with an alcoholic father who beats up mother and kids on a regular basis...and a mother who's addicted to some drug...and a neighborhood where you join the local gang if you want to avoid getting beaten up all the time...and the local gang trains you to fight, deal crack, mug people, and steal...

What would Doug R be doing today? Would he even vote? I doubt it. He probably wouldn't have his mind much on political or ethical issues.

Ms Azizi, you have it right.

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Feb 05 - 04:57 PM

One rather widely used saying in the 1990s which some of you may have heard went like this:

"It's a Black thang, you wouldn't understand".

I would suggest that "It's a people thing" and that too few understand because they don't have the heart to try.

Ms. Azizi


PS: Thank you Brucie and Little Hawk for your heartfelt words..

Subject: RE: BS: How soon next American Civil War ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Feb 05 - 05:52 PM

The trouble with Chicken Little is the same as the Little Boy who Cried Wolf. Sometimes there really is a wolf, and sometimes the sky really does fall, near enough.

I imagine when Bush was getting all those warnings about how there was going be a massive terrorist assault within the USA, he might have quoted Chicken Little.