BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 03:24 PM

Well Clinton, I see a lot of the same names posting here that I saw here in 1999, including yours, so who's to say what will be happening here in another seven years? And I'm familiar enough with your opinions to know that you really don't give a damn what people think about what you say now or said then or will say 7 years on. That's fine. I guess I associate what I say here with how I view my self, and hold what I say to that standard. I suppose we can both do that. It just says I give a damn and you don't.

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: number 6
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 03:27 PM

I hold what I say to that standard, based on my own moral standards regardless ... must face reality, does it really matter here?

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: DougR
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 03:36 PM

I can't recall Rick ever insulting anyone he disagreed with. He always showed respect for the other person point of view. That is a rare quality these days here on the Mudcat.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 03:39 PM

In December o4 number6 made this astute statement regarding Leonard Cohen

"I questioned his sincerety, truthfulness in his earlier works. But as time went on he has matured, he has connected with his craft with pure honesty and delivers his artistry without inhibition or concealment. He is a great Canadian deserving of his accolades."

Well said, don't you think?

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: number 6
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 03:40 PM

There are more than you think DougR who show respect for the other persons point of view ... the ones that don't are the ones that are remembered and make it to the "front pages".

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: number 6
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 03:42 PM

Thak you LEJ !

I sincerely meant that too.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 03:45 PM

and so did I, number6.
It's just that Mudcat is something like Las Vegas..."what happens here, stays here." ;>)

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: Amos
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 09:32 AM

And also in that if you play by the rules, the house (meaning the Mudcat community) will always win in the long run.


A

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 10:27 AM

I can't recall Rick ever insulting anyone he disagreed with. He always showed respect for the other person's point of view. That is a rare quality these days here on the Mudcat.

I'd wholly agree with the first two sentences there, Doug, and think thta Rick is a great model in those ways as well as others.

I don't actually agree with your last sentence. The really nasty posters are still, thank God, a small minority, as they always have been. It's just that they rather obtrude their presence out of proportion to their actual numbers, rather like a slug in a bowl of salad.

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: jacqui.c
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 10:51 AM

Well said Kevin.

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 12:51 PM

And the schlurping goes on in the Mudcat Daisy Chain....

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: Amos
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 01:33 PM

IF you're that jealous, CH, just bend over....I am sure we can find someone to accomodate you.


A

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 01:39 PM

I'm not jealous at all...

You folks can line up to suck each other silly all you want...

Just don't expect anyone else to take it seriously

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: Amos
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 01:43 PM

Oh, ok. Well, bend over anyway....


A

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 01:50 PM

Damn. Time to strap on the old snowshoes, mush down to the village, play a couple Lightfoot tunes on the box, slam a Moosehead or two, and try to get some perspective on this infernal cabin-fever thing.

Keep yer chin up, CH...it'll be Mud-season in a couple months.

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 01:50 PM

"Anyone else" ? C'mon Clinton - you're only speaking for yourself. Most people take their sucking up very seriously. Just because you don't doesn't mean you have to spoil anybodies fun. If you don't like the thread you don't have to read it. It's pretty obvious what the thread is about. We got your point 4 posts back. It's just the flippin' internet - big deal. Go kick a puppy.

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 01:53 PM

I'd hate to put your mom outa work Amos...

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: *daylia*
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 02:00 PM

*gasp*    omigod   say it isn't so!    steady   steady make way for The Indecency of the 'Cat (Part ?!XXX!?)

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 02:07 PM

"..."bend over, anyway"
*giggling out loud*

durn, Amos...you just got 27 redemption points in my little book of "Zingers I wish I had said" ! This entitles you to 3 free meta-linguistic speculations (9 points each)

(I don't think he's gonna bend over, but the image will keep me chuckling all day.)

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 02:18 PM

BTW, Martin....about your comment back up there "There are some cliques here that are way too liberal"

ummmm...how liberal is ok? Can you publish your guidelines, so we'll know when to moderate our liberalism? And what if we belong to more than one clique?....do we need to apply the guidelines to each of them individually, or can we be exempted if the majority fall into the "not 'quite' too liberal category"? (I, myself, am registered in 14 cliques currently, and am at a loss as to how to monitor my convoluted liberal tendencies!)

If we are to 'walk the line' properly, according to your superior wisdom, we need clear guidance.

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: number 6
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 04:00 PM

Amos ... that was such a classical retort. It should be emblazoned on the Mucat's Home Page !!

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 04:01 PM

You folks need to get out more often

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 04:03 PM

I believe I see a Mudcat Auction Item-in-the-making. A T-Shirt? A coffee mug? A toilet seat cover? A bumoer sticker???? HMMMMM

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 04:04 PM

Classic typo - BUMPER Sticker not BUM Sticker.

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: number 6
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 04:04 PM

I agree CH ... but come on ... lately it's been bloody cold out here on the east coast!

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 06:12 PM

Hi. Been out of town for a few days.

Bill D., just consider yourself the benchmark. Basically just a lot of hot air. If you gave up a dozen of your 14 cliques, you would still be owned by 2 others.

Thanks, Ron for recognizing the truth as I have said to so many. 90% of my "insults" are rebuttals for personal attacks on me. Considering the howling that I then get and the support, mine are more popular to read!

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 08:11 PM

The young (or relatively young) die good.

They don't have the time the rest of us do to cock-up any good we may have done.

Rick has passed the first requirement of sainthood in that he is dead but I am quite sure that he will find much of the waxing lyical about thim in this thread highly embarrasing and have a good laugh at it.

But if Rick really was thought by some to be the best example of how to behave on our forum - the best tribute that they can make to him would be to try and follow that example.

In my view - from the many public and personal exchanges that I had with him - Rick was no saint but was as human as the rest of us - but all the better for being so.

But Rick died before the worst effects and excesses of the trigger-happy and anonymous Mudcat posse and their edit buttons got to work in clearing up the town, creating more mess and our limiting essential freedoms in the process. I wonder what he is thinking of the way and extent that this silliness is defended?

Would he think it decent? I think not.........

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 09:49 PM

Roger, I have the advantage of knowing what he thought about it. While I'm fine giving my impressions of him, communications were personal. How do you really think he'd feel about people attributing their own opinions to him when he's not around to set the record straight?

Or is this one of those deification things, where, since he was the epitome of good, he would have always agreed with you?

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 03:34 AM

Roger, I have the advantage of knowing what he thought about it. While I'm fine giving my impressions of him, communications were personal. How do you really think he'd feel about people attributing their own opinions to him when he's not around to set the record straight?

Well if you know - the record would be straight - you would not be attributing your own opinions to him so there would not be any harm in you telling us.

If you read my post and you are fair - you will see that I was just speculating on what he MAY may think NOW - not attributing any opinion to him, especially none of mine.

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 06:13 AM

For some reason - I am reminded of the Holy Sandal Of Brian.

Brian urging a throng of false-idol worshippers to think for themselves--to which they reply en masse "Yes, we must think for ourselves!"; the fact that everything Brian does, including losing his sandal in an attempt to flee these wackos, is interpreted as "a sign."

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 09:13 AM

Roger, no. These were private conversations and his opinions changed depending on circumstances. They can't change anymore, and one opinion, from one specific point in time, is irrelevent today.

Rick frequently liked to prod people out of their comfort zones, out of ruts and off on scary, but exciting, new paths. This almost always involved some disagreement/resistance.

It's hard to find a friend/teacher/mentor/whatever that can get you to question what you believe. It's taking a risk that you'll get so upset you won't speak to them anymore. People who want you to see another point of view on the 'Cat usually take an adversarial position. Who's going to try to walk a mile in their little cloven-hoofed booties? When folks set themselves up as the enemy, most people don't really try to understand their point of view.

The best debates on Mudcat happen when people who recognize the good in each other disagree, but respect each other and try to see each other's point of view. Insults and attempted virtual bitch slaps are not points of view. I know why people react. I wish they resisted the temptation once in a while and insist that folks stick to the subject before they'll reply. I also would like a million dollars and a pony.

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: Amos
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 09:23 AM

Jeri,

You definitely deserve a pony. :D

A

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: gnu
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 09:24 AM

You pony up the million and...

Sorry. I'm sick.

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: gnu
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 09:25 AM

I've got a Severn case of the puns.

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: *daylia*
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 09:35 AM

And I'd like to be able to play barre chords reliably, with confidence, and without buzzing, dead strings someday. Hopefully before I'm pushing up daisies!   

I know, I know - practice makes perfect. *sigh*   And the same goes for the art of presenting and discussing a point of view amicably and effectively.   I'm grateful to the Mudcat for the opportunity to observe, practice and refine the fine art of public debate.

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: kendall
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 09:54 AM

So, there is some "horseing around" This is the net; what mare can you ecpect?

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 09:58 AM

Roger, no. These were private conversations and his opinions changed depending on circumstances. They can't change anymore, and one opinion, from one specific point in time, is irrelevent today.

As I said: - Rick died before the worst effects and excesses of the trigger-happy and anonymous Mudcat posse and their edit buttons got to work in clearing up the town, creating more mess and our limiting essential freedoms in the process.

It would have been interesting to be told how you would know his thoughts on things like this, which have occurred on our forum after Rick's death. We can all perhaps only speculate what a decent man like him would now think of such things. I would like to think that his form of online decency on our forum has not died with him.

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 10:16 AM

I'm grateful to the Mudcat for the opportunity to observe, practice and refine the fine art of public debate.

Precisely. We can still get that here in a way that is very hard to find in other settings, either on the Internet or out in the big world - if we choose to do so.

And I think it likely that for people who do choose to use the Mudcat that way, the effect is likely to affect, for the good, their ability to negotiate controversial discussions in other settings.

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: *daylia*
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 10:48 AM

... the trigger-happy and anonymous Mudcat posse and their edit buttons got to work in clearing up the town, creating more mess and our limiting essential freedoms in the process...

How does the cherished "right" to freedom of speech become the "right" to get one's jollies at everyone else's expense??? Does "freedom" the "right" to amuse oneself online by being as vapid / vicious / slanderous / malicious / obscene / disruptive / destructive of enjoyable, healthy, productive debate as possible?

Freedom of speech does not confer the right to amuse oneself by screaming out "FIRE!" in a crowded theatre. People with functioning brains limit freedom of speech in such instances, for the sake of a greater good (ie public safety).

IMO your thread "Religion=good folk doing bad things" is a great illustration of the same type of conduct as yelling out "BOMB!" while boarding a plane. So are most of your posts here, from what I've seen so far. When I see the name "Shambles" on a post, I've come to know exactly what to expect. ANd going by the general tone of the response you get, so do most other people on this site.

So instead of whining so long and loud about how your so-called "rights" (????) are being trampled, why not just count your lucky stars that you still have your cookie? ANd while you're at it, you might send the powers that be on this site some flowers or a donation or something, just to express your appreciation.

Sincerely,

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 11:21 AM

Roger, discussions don't happen according to your own personal time line, within your perception, nor does fact persitently agree with your personal version of Mudcat history.

I've had more practice at public debate than I want, so I'll leave this to others, while I go check for ponies.

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 03:46 PM

"I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 03:51 PM

I won't... If what you're saying involves spewing hatred, intolerance, disinformation or sucky-babby-ness.....

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: MMario
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 03:57 PM

there *are* no "essential freedoms" on the Mudcat - it is a privately owned, privately operated website. EVER SINGLE word or character posted can legally be edited or deleted at whim by the owner or his designated proxies.

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 04:03 PM

And what MMario said!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 04:12 PM

I'm trying to come up with a situation where I can get Shambles to defend to the death my right to say something... Heh! Heh!

For example, there's this totally cruddy bar in downtown Barrie. I'd love to go there with Shambles some night just before last call, stick my head in the front door, yell, "You're all a buncha f*ckin' LOSERS!"...then step aside and say, "Okay, Roger, you can take it from here..." (quickly exiting the scene in my getaway car, driven by Raptor, we go to his place and watch Trailer Park Boys for an hour or so, and speculate on the probably fate of our late and lamented pal, Shambles.)

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: Wesley S
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 04:17 PM

Insn't just a little bit of thread drift to go from the "Decency of the 'Cat" to yet another discussion about the "censorship" problem here ? Aren't there enough treads on this topic already ?

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 04:25 PM

Are there enough priests in the Vatican?

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 04:29 PM

Are there any bars in downtown Barrie that aren't cruddy?

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: Amos
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 07:11 PM

Well, you got a good point, there, Wesley. I wonder hpw that happened? I mean here we were talking about the best things about this place and all of a sudden we're listening to epople bitch about censorship again. How did that happen? Maybe there's someone out there who doesn't like talking about the underlying decency of the 'Cat, or who thinks such conversations are upsetting. Why would anyone feel that, I wonder?


A

Subject: RE: BS: The Decency of the 'Cat (Part II)
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 07:44 PM

I guess it could be considered part of the decency of the Cat that folks are allowed to go off topic without being deleated all together.