Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?

Subject: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: GUEST,Acorn54
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 05:34 PM

There seems to be quite a high drop out rate for students on this course
It the quality of the course up there with the best?
Is the degree worth having? Why have the people left before completing and does it need to be four years?

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: johnadams
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 06:16 PM

Any degree is a fine balance of the students studying, the staff teaching and the resources available.

The degree seems to be well resourced and has, in the Sage, one of the newest and swankiest venues in the country. Whether that's relevant to folk music is, of course arguable.

The staff seem to be made up of very expert practitioners and I am a tiny bit biased as my nearest and dearest, Chris Coe, has just returned from a three day stint teaching up there. That said, when her colleagues include Kathryn Tickell, Catriona McDonald, Stewart Hardie, Sandra Kerr, and many more, and her boss is Vic Gammon then I think the expertise isn't in doubt.

So that leaves the students. Well if they're anything like my tv and radio students there'll be good years, bad years and mixed years. Some people who drop out of my course do so because......
they've got a place at a prestigious institution like the Vancouver/Beijing/Cuba etc Film School
or
they've got a job making cookery programmes for Granada/Sky
or
they've been offered a job on a feature film
or
they've run out of money
or
they've taken too many drugs
or
they've fallen in/out of love
or
they're pregnant
or, or, or...


How do you judge the course in relation to these exits?

And as to the 4 years, it's taken most of us a lifetime and we're probably a way off getting it right yet. I am anyway!

J

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 06:21 PM

"The Best"?

What other folk music degrees are there?

In England?

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 06:29 PM

I think probably we all agree that its time folkmusic did have its place on the curriculums of schools and universities.

As you can tell from the way that certain beliefs are adhered to with blind unquestioning devotion on the Mudcat, the subject has inherent problems for the English. Its a pedant's dream subject. Questioning of some of these extremely silly ideas underpinning the folk revival is simply not allowed.

the reason I think this may be a problem, I saw a performance by people connected with the course. (no name, no packdrill for these are young performers making their first steps). the song about a contemporary issue sounded as though it had been written mid decks on one of Nelson's ships.

seats of learning have always been conservative places in England. The revolutionary theories of Ewan MacColl have sadly been allowed to ossify into a new orthodoxy. The prospect of redbrick turreted enclave where the most opinionated men on mudcat have the power of pass and failure over young people would disenchant many.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 06:36 PM

I don't know the current norm, but in the early 70s a first year dropout of 40% in any kind of university course did not raise eyebrows.

To the question "Is it any good?" I have to respond with "For what?". In my view such a course should not necessarily be seen in the same light as courses that are meant to lead directly to a specific profession (medicine, law, teaching etc), because it has additional possibilities to offer, such as obtaining and improving skills and knowledge for their own sake, for a start. It should not be judged with the same yardstick therefore.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 06:42 PM

Newcastle itself is good. The Folk degree students do a cracking night at the Bridge Folk Club. Dunno if the degree is any good though.

D.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 06:54 PM

I could not agree less with WMD. If people wish to write about a contemporary issue in the idioms of metal (any of its many genres - I once got into a real flame war about the limits of "doom"), ragga, country, power-pop or whatever by all means they may do so, and the song may be none the worse, but if it is anything to do with "folk" then it requires the connection with the folk - who we are which is but an extension of what we were. Thus the word has consistent meaning across "folk-lore" "folk tale" folk-myth" "folk-dance" and "folk arts" generally.

The insistence that no form that has been used is of contemporary application is, in the limit, absurd, but moreover, the genres that WMD would prefer to use are in fact rooted in a tradition - a more recent tradition, and an alien tradition to England or many parts of the UK - namely the forms of "country" which in many parts are indebted to to blues forms or what might now be called "Mobo". In short they owe more to American (mostly US) cultural impperialism than to the UK. There is no reason to advocate that the people of England, Scotland, Wales, and, slightly more distantly, Ireland should abandon their own roots and seek to become cuckoos in another nest.

The essence of the study of folk music or any other folk art is that it cleaves to and grows from the tradition of that folk art.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: johnadams
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 06:56 PM

George Papavgeris wrote:

I don't know the current norm, but in the early 70s a first year dropout of 40% in any kind of university course did not raise eyebrows.

George, those days are well past. One of my 'performance indicators' is retention rate.

J

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 07:16 PM

Of course what I say and what I do may not necessarily co-incide.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: johnadams
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 07:23 PM

I agree with Richard that if you're going to do a folk degree which includes generating new material then that material has to stand on something and the style of the early 19th century is just as valid as any other past period. The one thing it doesn't need to be is bang up to date.

But the question that any folk degree or course or module has to address is does it provide a suitable basis for stepping into a career? Can folk music performance be studied in this way as opposed to just getting out there and doing it?

We faced the same questions two decades ago when Salford University was validating degrees in Popular Music and teaching people to be Rock'N'Rollers etc.. A piece of paper is no good when really, you're only as good as your last gig!

Really, the folk degree is probably the equivalent of a fine art degree - you're not guaranteed to turn out the equivalent of a Henry Moore or a Botticelli but it's a good breeding ground for all manner of interesting things.

J

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 07:25 PM

The prospect of redbrick turreted enclave where the most opinionated men on mudcat have the power of pass and failure over young people would disenchant many.[quote from wee little drummer]
WLD,What about the mudcat women?

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 07:29 PM

Obviously I don't know the facts of the matter, Richard. it just seemed an area of concern to me - and I would want the the matter cleared up before I considered recommending the course for one of my friend's kids.

If you really think the soul of the English society can only be addressed in folk music, by using a load of stylistic eccentricities - mainly thought up by very imaginative and individual artists in the 1950's and 60's - well that's your opinion - and you know mine is different.

Folk has got a lot to offer. it can tell a story faster than an epic film, characterise as vividly as a face on a cigarette card, provide performance and confidence building experience for young people....and no doubt much more I haven't thought of.

its too bloody good to leave it to the folksingers.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 08:04 PM

Aah cannit vouch for how 'good' the Folk Degree is but it worries me that it's up there alongside the degree in 'Coronation Street'

Years ago somebody told uz that ANY academic acheivement (11 Plus, GCE, A-Level, Uni Degree) just proved that you hev the ability te tek in info and store it lang enough te be examined on it.

However, aah've heard soem of the 'graduates' from these degree courses play at festivals in various guises and they aall seem very proficient on their chosen multi-instruments but none of them appear to have any connection or rapport with an audience.

Summat the' cannit teach ye in school!

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 08:10 PM

Al, the question is two-fold. What does he want to know, and what does he want to perform. University degrees should always be about self-improvement, and not about pecuniary benefit: that was an invention of the Gordon Gecko years under that unspeakable woman. Learning is the key virtue.

I agree that that's what folk can do. But anime is a different art form from the hollywood blockbuster, and that differs from the art movie. A film director needs to understand the silent movie to know how to tell a story visually - my favourite shot from the Mad Max movies from Mad Max 1 - the shot where you see the belt drive to the the GMC supercharger gradually, stutteringly take up drive - knows this. THe hugely overrated "Get Carter" knows this.

Likewise in photography (a medium I hate) - the photographer needs to understand black and white in order to be able to make meaning with a colour shot.

You can't make folk music without roots. And no artist should be in any art form purely for profit. It is his/her muse that that must rule.

If your man is a money grubber, tell him to go to a music management or music technology course at dunnamany places. If his muse is in English/UK roots, there is not much alternative to Newcastle. Or he can go out on the road....


Dammit, we simply HAVE to meet some time, and look for the overlap!

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 08:26 PM

The disturbing thing is the VERY good musicians who come out of these University / Poly / whatever courses with a very high proficiency on their chosen instruments , form a band , and immediately EXPECT HUGE fees without having ANY idea of 'relating ' to an audience !

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: GUEST,doc.tom
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 08:26 PM

Hmm... Interesting - as usual. Is it any good?? - for whom? and in what way? Converations with several who have been throught it seems to suggest that it has been of benefit/value to them. It is a degree IN MUSIC, remember. Government targets of 50% of the population going to university means, BY DEFINITION, anyone of average intelligence and above! Early concerns about the academic rigor of the course are totally assuaged by having His Worship The Gammon in charge - and the credentials of the tutors can hardly be in doubt. I find it encouraging that the course at least attempts to deal not only with the music, but also with the 'Industry' (God help us all!), stage-craft (although not very sucessfully from most of what I've seen) and how to get gigs and influence people (throw money at it). Rather it was there than not - how about some more to extend the scale and scope, and hopefully to avoid a singular school/style develpoing - no, it's not too late!
TomB

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 08:26 PM

This past thread ought to be useful. Ian Stephenson attended there.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Peace
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 09:32 PM

Has anyone seen the course?

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 09:58 PM

Well, Number 5 has a nasty dogleg to the left but if you can pull the ball a bit you can actually turn the corner off the tee with a Driver. From there its a 2-Iron to the Green. The other significant holes are the 12th, an all-carry Par 3 that rewards a great high Irons player and the 17th with that water hazard guarding the Green and the deep Fairway traps at 200 yards out. The 18th is a pretty hole and is a nice finishing Par 4.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Peace
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 10:07 PM

I had to ask . . . .

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Greg B
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 10:29 PM

How many Newcastles do you have to drink in order to obtain
the degree.

I might qualify on the basis of life experience...

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 11:24 PM

surprising to me theres no equivalent degree
at any colleges in the Bristol area..?????

especially seeing as music technology / performance arts courses
are hugely popular with local further education students
down here in the west country..


.. and it makes far more sense to me
for young folk musicians to learn their craft & culture
in a city where you can still get a proper pint of cider !!!!

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: fiddler
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 04:26 AM

hmmmmm..........

Surely it is What are we expecting from the degree?

It is study of and examination in a branch of music which happens to be folk.

Do English degree holders all go on to become writers etc. I know a chemist who is an accountant........

What do Sandra Kerr and the others academics tutoring and lecturing on the course see as it's aims and aspirations.?

Lets not all talk b*ll*x about what we think lets try and have an informed discussion. A degree in anything merely opens doors it does not guarantee entry and acceptance - in any field!

BTW I work in a University and have known many students over the years some of whom used their degrees in a vocational manner, others (one in particular) after working many years in poor jobs not demanding high academic standards re trained and became a physiotherapist - so much for a joint English and German degree!

What I am saying really is lets keep it all in perspective the aim is not to turn out a new Waterson, Carthy, Coe, Rusby or Kirkpatrick is it?

How many mainstream performers hold music degrees in their chosen art form?

Andy

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: fiddler
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 04:27 AM

Anyway you couldn't duplicate Eliza now couold you?

:-)

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 04:57 AM

"One of my 'performance indicators' is retention rate."

Amen, brother. When I was teaching at university level a few years ago, the paradox was that the 50% targets mean that many "new" universities will take just about anyone at clearing, including people who haven't even done A Levels - and when these young people cannot then cope with the academic environment (because they don't even know how to write an essay, for example, and don't have particularly advanced literacy skills), the priority is to do whatever you can to retain them when some of them probably shouldn't even be there in the first place. I personally found it soul-destroying. Oh, and just try failing anyone...

*climbs down from hobby horse*

Re the Newcastle degree: I have heard mixed responses from several former students and graduates. To be honest, the only way to respond to the question would be to be able to include their views and opinions. It would also be interesting to know why most people who do the degree are doing it. Do they see it as a stepping-stone into a career, as many other students do these days, or is it about study for its own sake?

When most people discuss the folk degree they immediately think of all the bright young things who perform at festivals, but I understand that there is a range of ages and experience on the degree - I'd love to hear what some of the mature students make of it. When I was teaching, it was the mature students who were the most interestng and rewarding to teach.


Yours sincerely,

One of the Most Opinionated Women on Mudcat

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 05:42 AM

And from the other most opinionated woman on Mudcat:
Why doesn't anyone read the previous threads (here's the last one) which mushroom annually with monotonous regularity? Or better still, examine the course content?

I really can't be arsed to repeat everything I've written before for the benefit of the wilfully ignorant because they really ought to engage in a smidgeon of basic research themselves. There again, as Ruth says (more or less), these ill-informed whingers probably failed O level in coherent thought. This is just one contribution I made previously:

People might take a moment to read about what the four-year BMus course actually entails. such as course content and entry requirements, before deluging this space with the usual prejudices such as 'we never needed this sort of thing in my day' and 'reading music stops you being a proper trad musician', blah blah . . .

Also they might bear in mind that England is very much behind other countries (not least Scotland and Ireland) as well as Finland and Sweden, in giving equal recognition to traditional as to establishment arts.

The website is a bit crap and I can't link to the actual course page. You have to click through from 'Learning & Participation'.

http://www.thesagegateshead.co.uk/

In short, the Newcastle degree is performance-based and although there are no formal entry requirements, it is unlikely that a student would be admitted were their abilities noticeably below Grade VIII. Additionally, the course provides modules in business elements which equip students with skills relevant to a wide area of expertise. It does not exist to churn out fodder for "f*lk clubs", nor should it. That would be as idiotic as the wholly stupid putdown jeer of those same whingers who decry a catering course for its oriental cuisine element as "degrees in curry-making".

Today, 50% of the population is expected to graduate in something (anything) purely to complete their formal education. If this can be achieved in a subject dear to the student's heart, which they will enjoy and be able to continue throughout their lives whether or not they are actually making their living in a related field, so much the better

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: synbyn
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 05:54 AM

How nice to be able to agree with an opinionated woman... the last para at least... I'd agree (from without) with doc.tom that the presentational skills are sometimes a bit formulaic, but I suspect that that part is hard to teach. After all, most really proficient musicians have locked themselves up in their bedrooms practising all through their teens (haven't they?)... It need not be for money that they study- it will almost certainly be a lifetime's sustainance..

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 05:57 AM

I happen to agree with DE concerning the course. I think its great that this sort of course exists. We, the general public can only benefit by seeing these students as they develope in their musical career. There are such a lot of young excellent musicians out their and its fantastic.
Is it any good? Of course it is.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 06:05 AM

One suspects that a liberal interpretation of the purpose of education would find little favour with the Thatcherite element whose voice is still so strong in the English education system. The business/vocational element of the course is obviously a nod in the direction of the late Keith Joseph.

As I say - my area of concern would be that a student would perhaps be in the situation of signing up for Literature course and finding that the teaching staff were all symbolist poets, or beat poets or whatever was 'in' that week.

Folkmusic is bigger than most folksingers allow.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 06:09 AM

Deleted anonymous abusive guest post

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: mattkeen
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 06:19 AM

That was Diana quote from 2006 when the link did not work - smart arse

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: mattkeen
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 06:22 AM

My apologies, that should have read "anonymous smart arse".

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 06:28 AM

I went along to one of the 'Stars of the Future Nights' last year at The Bridge Hotel Folk Club in which students from the degree course (AKA The Kids from Fame) each do a fifteen minute set which, I believe, goes toward they're final grade. The word was this was the only way they could coerce them into attending local folk clubs.

I was impressed by the overall standard, but dismayed by the general attitude; understandable perhaps in terms of their immaturity / ego / ambition. But whilst ordinarily such premature preening & posturing would have been justifiably scoffed at, the fawning deference shown to them by the local singers was quite sickening to behold, many of whom were only to grateful for this gratis glimpse of future folk celebrity.

Another Monolith in the Corporate Cultural Landscape of what they're now calling NewcastleGateshead.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Santa
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 06:49 AM

Er, isn't Fay Heald (Witchs of Elswick) one of the graduates of the folk degree course? Can't say I've noticed any lack of connection or rapport with the audience there.

As for immaturity/preening/ambition/posturing: sounds like any young muso to me, folk degree or not. It comes from spending too much time by yourself concentrating on your instrument. Not just musicians either, come to think of it.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: greg stephens
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 07:32 AM

Diane Easby says "In short, the Newcastle degree is performance-based and although there are no formal entry requirements, it is unlikely that a student would be admitted were their abilities noticeably below Grade VIII".
    I am entirely in favour of university courses to study folk music. But if any such course imposed that sort of entry condition,whether formally or informally, I think it should be closed forthwith until they figured out what they are supposed to be studying. Grade VIII indeed! Some great folk musicians have vast technical ability. Some have virtually none. Or not the sort of abilties measured by that grading system, anyway. The ability to play arpeggios and scales fast and accurately, and to sight read, has about as much relevance to the study of folk music as the height, sex, race or sexual orientation of the candidates.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 07:41 AM

OK. well I should have said "equivalent in performance ability to . . . "
But if a musician is unable to play arpeggios accurately they are going to have a lot of trouble with, for instance, Iron Legs which I know for a fact Greg can play very well.

Oh, and the old prejudice about "proper trad musicians don't sightread" You astonish me, Greg. Sightreading is only a skill which anyone can acquire and jolly useful and timesaving it is too.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 07:48 AM

I've looked at the website, but frankly it sends out mixed messages to me.

Some of the contributors and moving spirits seem eclectic enough, but the entrant is crudely asked - do you enjoy playing English/Irish traditional music?

If I hadn't spent my youth in teacher training college with not very clever people working out the meaning of education and precisely why the realities of life in a secondary school were irrelevant to such lofty thoughts, no doubt the icy fingers of foreboding wouldn't be poking me so hard at the moment. Academics are awful people. They can't be trusted with big ideas like education and folk music.

Having said that, I'm glad the Newcastle course is there. Its at very least a step in the right direction.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: greg stephens
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 08:29 AM

Diane: I can sight read perfectly well. And play scales and arpeggios, though not as well as when I was student. But I do not regard any of those accomplishments as having any relevance whatsoever to being a folk musician. Leadbelly seemd to manage OK without them, as far as I am aware.It would be fine for the degree course to teach such stuff to those who were interested but never got round to learning: but if, as you say, it is some kind of prerequisite to getting on the course, I would think it a disgraceful betrayal of what folk music is.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 08:31 AM

It wasn't the usual muso vibe though; in that respect I'd have to say the people we saw certainly had their shit together. This was something more akin to maybe Pop Idol - or rather Classical Idol (which has me yearning for the more decorously gauche Young Musician of the Year...)

Celebrity depresses me on any level, aspirant or otherwise; I like my folk like my football: a grey game played on grey days watched by grey people.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 08:33 AM

I blame Andy Warhol

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 08:35 AM

then there was Andy Gray....

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 08:41 AM

if, as you say, it is some kind of prerequisite to getting on the course

There are not, as far as I am aware, any hard-and-fast 'prerequisites' for course entry (other than an ability to pay the fees). Prospective students are assesed individually on their merits. Clearly they wil be asked "Do you like playing traditional music?". If they do not, what exactly would be the point of applying for the course?

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 08:42 AM

and Derek Dougan....

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 08:55 AM

how about do you like playing traditional or contemporary folk music.

I used to have a keyboard with an arpegettiator - you played the note and a complicated arpeggio slithered out like a snake - infact you could choose major arppeggios, major 7th and minor and minor 7th.

its one of those techniques only us real musicians wot play contemporary music know about.

I doubt if they'd let you lot buy one.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: fiddler
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 08:58 AM

The old reading music hare is runing again - I've just left a dance group where the dance leader castigated the musicians for using dots..

As a child I had my knuckles rapped with the narrow edge of a 12 inch ruler if Miss 'name omitted to protect the guilty' thought I was not reading each and every note and it's pencilled annotations from the paper in front of me - subsequently even when I know a tune I feel totally lost without the obigatory stand and piece of lined paper on it.Hence I rarely go to sessions.

Incidentally the group has actually lost the full band! 6 musicians in one hit, and some dancers.

None all of of us are young enough to have folk degrees but some of us have lived folk music for more years than we care to admit and can perform and appreciate music without a degree. That is important.

I agree too, I always thought the Thatcherite principles were wrong and we do not necceassarily have to provide vocationally based degrees for all. But there again to suggest as the current rulers do that 50% of the community need degrees is totally irrelevant. I have watched the dumbing down of british degrees and the desecration of british HE by a number of administrations ir is sad. Teh Folk degree is one of the bright spots for me even if I don't agree with everything I know about it, it should eb seen as a benefit and a good advert for folk music in general.

I think it is time the English woke up to their heritage in music and dance and all oral traditions. As above the Scots and the Irish have great pride in theirs both of which overlap with ours in some areas and to study such as part of a degree course is a good idea and we get what we get at the end of it.

Sadly Gateshead has been getting clled Newcastle for some time now....More folk Geography courses needed....

nad typping for the folky is very portant 2

Andy

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: greg stephens
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 09:02 AM

Diane: I know you didn't say Grade VIII was a "hard and fast prequisite" of getting on the course. But you did say prospective students would be unlikely to be admitted if they didn't reach that standard.I am merely pointing out that the people who made the name we call it by would not necessarily have reached that standard, or anything like it.That standard exists to measure a completely different kind of ability, which is fun to possess, but not wildly relevant. If anybody disagrees with me, check out what you have to do to pass Grade VIII and figure out how that applies to Harry Cox or Woody Guthrie.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 09:16 AM

I think this course is important,as are comhaltas examinations.
they are a useful focus,but they dont necessarily mean ,that when one has completed the course,that one has arrived as a traditional musician,they are just a starting point.
the best experience for traditional musicians,is to listen to source musicians /singers[in whatever genre,be it MissippiJohnHurt,RoscoeHolcomb,HarryCox,orElizabethCronin]then to go out and learn on the job,.
Stage craft can be learned from watching others[not necesarrily traditional musicians],
These courses are good,but they are just a beginning for the participants.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 09:20 AM

When I was talking to one of the girls out of Crosscurrents, one of the bands to emerge from the course, about three years ago when they were playing in South Shields she told me that "a musical qualification" was essential for entry to the course. Has this changed? It was mainly some of the mature students that I was in contact with offering some help with the history of the North East folk scene for their theory work.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 09:23 AM

No one in the North East confuses Gateshead with Newcastle; they are distinct and entirely separate entities, divided by The Tyne, and no matter how many bridges they've built over the years, they are no closer today than than they were a hundred years ago when, having arrived on the Newcastle quayside from far across the sea, some wag looked south across the Tyne and said: "How far away England looks from here."

But who the hell came up NewcastleGateshead?

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: GUEST,baz parkes
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 09:39 AM

I don't know if it's any good....but I'd probably rather have done it than a joint degree in English and History....

baz