BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!

Subject: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: GUEST,Mark Dowding
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:17 AM

The Daily Mirror yesterday ran a story that BBC GMR in Manchester was to axe its community programmes in a cost cutting exercise. Although the story focussed on the programme Gay Talk which has been running for ten years, for us folkies, this means that along with all the other specialist shows, Ali O'Brien's show "Sounds of Folk" which has been running for nearly three years is also under threat of being dropped. For a radio station that prided itself on being community based this rather smells of the bean counters' actions.
I imagine writing in to the station to complain will make not a ha'porth of difference.
I presume Ali cannot comment on this at present for obvious reasons but it would be a crying shame that a programme that she and others fought for a few years ago will probably now be dropped.
The article had a quote from the BBC saying that the "Gay and Lesbian issues need to be incorporated into mainstream programming rather than just being relegated into a 30 minute weekly show"

"Relegated" suggests that they treat the specialist shows as inferior programmes instead of acknowledging that the concentration of a genre into an hour has a dedicated following.

Projecting that to the folk show does it mean that folk music will feature more heavily in the playlists of the mainstream presenters ie be spread so thinly through the schedules that there will not be a listener base.

Having had more than a passing interest in the show since it started I'm not very happy with current developments.

I'm sure more will come out in the long run.

Mark

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:28 AM

Hi Mark

If you could a contact name and email address we could bombard someone for clarification that Ali's show will be kept, any chance

Nick

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:34 AM

Hi Raggy

Write to
The Station Editor
BBC GMR
PO BOX 951
Oxford Road
Manchester
M60 1SD

Email [e-mail]

Good Luck

Mark

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:37 AM

Nothing about it on the GMR website.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 09:21 AM

Hi One and All,

Below is the response that I received from John Ryan, Manager Editor at GMR, it is not good reading (although speedy). Perhaps a concerted effort by North West Folkies may help sway the balance in favour of keeping Ali's programme. If the people who make these decisions are made aware of the strong desire to keep a folk programme they may do just that. The way I interpret the comments below do not lead me to believe they will keep the folk progamme, showcasing regional music talent is not the same thing. So it would seem advisable to contact GMR and let them know of the vibrant folk music scene in the North West. The email address is [e-mail]
as always (I'm sure I don't need to say this to 99.99% of you) keep it polite !

Joh Ryans response:-

Hi Nick
We have made no final decision about the future of our specialist music shows and will take your comments on board.
That said, weekly music shows are not at the heart of the station's speech proposition. I am sure whatever arrangements we make, we will continue to find a home showcasing regional music talent and listings.

J

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 04:33 AM

refresh, this is in need of a concerted effort on contact Auntie B and let me know your thoughts

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: GUEST,treaties 1 in Oz
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 04:47 AM

Refresh and I will e mail GMR when I can (credit running out very quickly)
Theresa

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: John J
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 06:04 AM

That's absolutely bloody ridiculous.

What on earth is this man trying to do?

Ali and her team present a very popular programme that is very well produced to very professional standards.

I'm sure the programme doesn't cost the BBC much money, it attracts an educated audience, and it covers the very broad range of subjects that is 'folk'.

I can only assume that by dumbing down the station, for that is clearly what they're looking to do, it becomes cheaper to run.

'Mainstream programming' must surely be much easier and cheaper to produce. Perhaps it's just coincidence, but most times when I tune in to GMR in the evening it appears to be discussing or covering football. In such cases I then change to Radio 4 or the BBC World Service.

It makes a refreshing change to be able to listen to an intelligently presented programme transmitted by my BBC local radio station whatever the programme content (apart from sport).

The management of GMR must be doing this for a reason, it's either to make their jobs easier or to save money. Perhaps both. Or is it because 'they' know what is best for us?

BBC GMR and it's management will lose much credibilty and many listeners if these changes are implemented.

Disgusted of Timperley.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 06:11 AM

JohnJ email to Joh Ryan tell him !

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: John J
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 06:44 AM

...and another thing: Ali's programme is what BBC Radio 2 should be producing, not the feeble effort we have had to put up with over the last few years.

JJ

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 07:28 AM

I think you will find that once the BBC makes up its mind it ain't going to change it. I know this might not be what you want to hear but believe me..

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: Snuffy
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 08:57 AM

"weekly music shows are not at the heart of the station's speech proposition" (John Ryan, Manager Editor at GMR)

Can we have that again, John, but in English this time?

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 09:11 AM

Snuffy email him for clarification and put your tuppence worth in

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: GUEST,Mark Dowding
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 10:23 AM

I have sent my email to John Ryan and am still waiting for a reply.

BBC GMR used to be called GMR Talk with endless phone-ins all day. I think that's what they want to return to for some reason.

The programme before Ali's is called the Parlour and is an Irish community magazine show - very popular. They won't go down without a fight I'm quite sure.

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: John J
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 11:37 AM

I've emailed GMR telling them of my feelings along with a link to this thread so they can see what their audience thinks. If they're interested.

As yet I've not had a response.

JJ

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: MoorleyMan
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 12:04 PM

Very disturbed to read of this new threat. It's exactly what happened a few years ago with BBC Local Radio channels Leeds et al dropping Henry Ayrton's exceedingly well-regarded folk & roots show at a whim to concentrate on yet more talk, talk, chat, more chat and endless sport which the programme controllers decreed was what listeners really really want. Oh yeah??? I don't know of a single listener who wants more sport - we're all desperately sick of these mindless idiots in charge of the radio waves pandering to the Great God Sport (or the Lord Almighty Phone-in) and denying us folks our limited fix of the important stuff, the true folk culture of this fair land. Back on me soapbox....
MM

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: GUEST,Mark Dowding
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 06:54 AM

I gather that John Ryan used to work at BBC Radio Leeds.
Interesting!!

Mark

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:14 AM

Unfortunately for the "Sounds of Folk" cause 'Talk Shows' are extremely popular on local radio. Sorry, but there it is!

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:47 AM

Guest, pray tell who you are and what source you quote from

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 08:22 PM

"'Talk Shows' are extremely popular on local radio"

I can't quote any references, but I will second this statement. They're cheap to run - compared to other types?

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: sian, west wales
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 04:45 AM

I wrote to David Jackson, Head of Music BBC Wales, the week preceding the first airing of Folk Britannia asking for a statement for our magazine about the Welsh content of the series. The reply from a press assistant is in the thread about FB. I posted the letter on the Thursday and by Monday morning a Radio Wales journo was on the phone to do a studio interview with me for Tuesday a.m.'s programme. So I knew then that there wouldn't be anything Welsh in FB ... hence making the title misleading.

Anyhow, the journo was quizzing me about why I thought there was this sudden upsurge in interest in folk music. I said the interest was always there; the Media just did it's best to ignore it, et al.

David Jackson is also "responsible for co-ordinating the commissioning of music television programmes emanating from the nations and regions and all music programmes for BBC FOUR" according to the Beeb website so perhaps letters directed at him would also be useful.

siân

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: andrewq
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 04:59 AM

I wrote to BBC GMR to express my disappointment at the possible axing of Sounds of Folk. It is the only thing I listen to on the station and covers music and regional music news that is not available elsewhere on the network.

This is the whole of the informative reply I got back:

"How do they know ...mmmmmmmmmmm!

Lawrence Mann .Senior Broadcast Journalist (Programmes).BBC GMR
0161 244 3052. "

So much for openness and accountability in the BBC. Perhaps they don't think their publicly funded institution needs to respond properly to listeners' concerns?

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: GUEST,Mark Dowding
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 05:16 AM

We don't know at all. All we know is what was in the Daily Mirror (if that's what Lawrence Mann's statement implies) and we're reading between the lines as to what might happen to the other specialist interest programmes that are currently broadcast including Sounds of Folk but the fact that nobody from the BBC has come forward to say a definite "Yes, we're going to continue with Sounds of Folk" or "No, It's going with the rest of the programmes" doesn't fill me with any confidence for the future of the show as a one hour concentration of music we like to listen to.

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 05:27 AM

Sian do you have an address or better still email for David Jackson

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: sian, west wales
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 05:47 AM

The snail mail would be

Broadcasting House
BBC
Llandaf
Cardiff
CF5 2YQ

I don't have an email but the BBC is formulaic (supposedly): first name - dot - last name @bbc.co.uk so it SHOULD be [e-mail] Having said that, I'd be surprised if there wasn't some other David Jackson in the Beeb somewhere. You can but try. I tend to do snail mail as I can do things like this on company letterhead which tends to be taken more seriously than email.

siân

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: GUEST,Mark Dowding (at work)
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 06:04 AM

David Jackson's Music Department Details

Email: [e-mail]
Telephone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Address: Room E4113 Broadcasting House, BBC Wales, Llandaff, Cardiff, CF5 2YQ.

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: John J
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 06:54 AM

freresh

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 07:46 AM

Theresa,

I've only just realised that you've signed in as Treaties from OZ!!! I hope it's warmer there than it is here?

Thanks for joining this thread - will you be at Kidderminster next weekend with us?

Ali

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 07:38 AM

I've tried to remain professional and stay out for this thread.

However, I'm getting so many queries - from listeners, folkies, artists and agents - that I'm going to see if I can get an answer this evening from John Ryan.

If possible, I'll let you all know!!

Ali

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 03:40 AM

I spoke to the boss last night, to be told that they still haven't finalised the schedule! I may not know until March 13th / 20th, and as the new changes take effect from the beginning of April, effectively that means that any complaints or appeals will be dismissed through lack of time!!

Ali

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: HipflaskAndy
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 06:15 AM

Hi Ali,
having played 'live' on the show last night with m'fiddle player Anne (we had a great evening, thanks!) I was very shocked to hear of the shadow of doubt cast over the future of 'Sounds of Folk' on GMR.

Your programme is a wonderful beacon for our genre of music in that region and it would be catastrophic should it disappear (as was sadly the case over here in Yorkshire/Humberside not so long ago when dear Henry Ayrton's Folk programme was axed).

I sincerely hope the programme gets a stay of execution and continues from strength to strength.
Yours - Duncan McFarlane

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: GUEST,BBC4 viewer
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 08:04 AM

sooner a national 24 hour digital radio channel is devoted to folk the better !

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: MoorleyMan
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 10:23 AM

BBC4 Viewer is fortunate - our part of God's Own County can't even receive digital TV cos funding for the transmitter was withdrawn.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 01:00 PM

You live in Lancashire then Moorley Man

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: GUEST,Clogger
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 01:22 PM

I may be out of line here but...........
Why not phone in to GMR live on the morning slot of Alan Beswick?
This may serve to hilight the (potential) problem. Alan will field questions about virtualy anything and it would be interesting to hear a "phone in" as they generate more publicity than E-Mail shots.
Anyway the results should be of interest!

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 02:48 PM

Do you fancy doing that Clogger? It's a brill idea, but he scares the hell out of me!!
Ali

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: GUEST,clogger
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 03:06 AM

Me too!!!!
but hey it could be worth it ;¬}

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: GUEST,Mark Dowding (at work)
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 04:24 AM

Allan Beswick's on our side - he used to do a bit in the folk clubs in the 70's.

Cheers
MArk

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 05:41 AM

I'd be very surprised if Mike Shaft approves these decisions either. He kind of manages the music shows for the station, and has been involved in Manchester (Piccadilly and Key 103) radio on the music side for many years.

Ali

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: GUEST,Clogger
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 12:06 PM

I did try to get on today (waited over 1 hour) but obviously time was too short/ there were too many other topics to talk about.
Still there is always tomorrow......
I suspect that there are a lot of people in the industry who support us, but we do not tend to do ourselves justice in that we are to a large extent silent!.....(eccept when singing)
The nice lady on the phone did offer to give me an address to write to but I assumed that that track would be less effective, and more easily ignored!
If at first you dont........

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: GUEST,clogger
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 05:27 PM

Or the day after!!!

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 25 Feb 06 - 03:45 AM

I've just heard that the boss has gone on leave now for a couple of weeks!!

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Feb 06 - 03:59 AM

I dont mind ringing him.

details please

Les Worrall
Market Rasen Folk Club

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 25 Feb 06 - 02:21 PM

To go on a show you call 0161 228 2255; to call the general enquiries number it's 0161 200 2000.

Good luck Les! Folk music lovers and artists from across the country have been writing in to him.

Ali

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Feb 06 - 03:15 PM

Okey dokey.

I will have to listen to his show first, and make sure I know what I am dealing with. :-)

Watch this space.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Bernard
Date: 25 Feb 06 - 08:08 PM

Beware, Les - Allan is very quick-thinking (this is not meant as an insult to you, lad!), and he specialises in being Devil's Advocate...

Hopefully, his close alliance with Bernard Wrigley (they do the occasional gigs together) may be of an advantage, as Bernard has already written to JR (spooky!!) expressing his dismay.

I quote:

BEWARE! If GMR becomes an imitation of Shit FM there'll be no going
back. You won't get the independent listeners and you'll lose all the
respect you currently have for the unique progs you broadcast
(Parlour, Folk, etc).

To which JR replied...

Whilst I reserve the right to review our whole schedule, be assured that I understand fully my public service obligation as the man in charge of GMR.

I have no ambition to ape commercial radio - but recognise the need of successful radio stations to adapt their programming from time to time to reflect the changing needs of their audiences.

It is worth noting that JR came to the BBC via commercial radio... or so I am led to believe.

I'm sorry to say that I believe all this to be a 'done deal' - no amount of complaining will make any difference. I also believe that JR is only the person appointed to oversee the changes - which have been decided at a higher level, and some months, even years ago.

I must stress this is only my opinion, and not based on fact. Make of it what you will.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Feb 06 - 03:05 AM

Thanks Bernard. Points taken on board.
Thats why I need to have listen first to understand how he operates. :-)
Les

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 26 Feb 06 - 04:19 AM

If it's too late then it is a damn shame and not a little short sighted. Bernard Wriggley's comment says a lot. I would have thought that BBC Radio 4 was a better model to aspire to. Lots of quality and always the chance of something a bit odd.

GMR is pretty dreadful saved only by Sounds of Folk, the glorious Beswick, a few community based progs and the totally nuetral footy coverage.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: GUEST,clogger
Date: 26 Feb 06 - 10:01 AM

As I posted earlier, I have tried to get on the programme before but time (being charitable) was against me and they did not call me back.
It may be more fruitfull if "they" are called early in the programme, and if there is more than one caller! I was honest with them about the topic I wished to talk about! Work permitting I will call on Tuesday, so come on all you folkies ..... giv'em a call.
Just as an after thaught, what are the relative costs of different types of Radio programme? Surely the cost of royalties can't be that much? Or do we have to go down the line of pure "trad"?

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 26 Feb 06 - 01:33 PM

The chat shows won't cost anything except for a presenter and some in the background - much cheaper than any of the light entertainment ones I suspect, if you take PRS into account.
John will argue that it's not a cost-cutting exercise, but an attempt to mainstream the station.
For me, that's a huge shame, as at present the programmes do reflect the diversity of the Greater Manchester area.
Ali