BS: Cursing

Subject: BS: Cursing
From: mack/misophist
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 12:22 AM

Cursing is a topic that comes up fairly often in the BS section. There are several differing opinions on the subject.

When I was a boy, I cussed because it was forbidden. In the Navy, I did it because it was almost required. Later, I did because every one else did. After a while, it occurred to me that cursing is a kind of emotional punctuation. When I cursed continually I sounded to myself like a third rate Nigerian scam letter; all caps and cluttered with exclamation marks. The satisfaction I used to find in cursing wasn't there any more. So I stopped. More or less. Today when I curse, people notice. It means something.

Do you have a personal policy on cursing? If so, how did you arrive at it?

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 12:28 AM

I believe the theory about emotional punctuation......

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Peace
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 12:31 AM

150 YEARS AGO, WORDS IN THE VERNACULAR CONSIDERED FILTHY, PROFANE or CUSSING WERE.

    * CONFOUND IT
    * HANG IT
    * DOG-GONE
    * GOL-DANG
    * GOSH-DARN
    * DAD-BURNED
    * BLASTED
    * DANG- IT
    * HOLY MOLEY

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 12:32 AM

DAD-GUMMIT!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 12:37 AM

Fuck it- if people want to swear(curse), who really gives a flying fuck? Saying fuck is like saying lo9ve.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Peace
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 03:22 AM

Mommy, he said it again!

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 03:29 AM

I don't mind it at all, and I will use it amongst the closest of friends, but in a wider circle I tend to side-step it, just to avoid offending others. Unless I am really insesed, which is rare.

What annoys me is the gratuitous use of words like "f**k", not as emotional punctuation, but as "filler" - as you sometimes find among the less educated. There I am not offended, just pissed off at the abuse of the language.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Cluin
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 03:42 AM

Fuckin'-ay!

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: GUEST,Mingulay
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 03:52 AM

I find that it is more interesting not to swear at times and also uses up a lot of spare words eg "go forth and multiply" for "f**k" off or "I liken you to the outward manifestation of female genitalia" instead of "c**t".

There seem to be certain sections of the community to whom the F word is totally meaningless in a good old Anglo-Saxon way and it becomes neither swearing nor punctuation. Not that they would know what punctuation is anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 03:54 AM

ooooooh, I'm tellin'!!

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Pied Piper
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 09:00 AM

I'm just a fucking erudite bastard.

PP

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Sweetfia
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 09:46 AM

I'm not too sure what all the fuss is about, but I know my teachers don't like it. I don't usually mean to swear in places like class or in front of people who may judge me as being less intellectual because i swear, but i do it that often, even if it's just words like 'bloody' or 'git', i just sort of say it without realising. None of my friends mind me swearing which is all i'm really bothered about but i think that's just be they are used to it now!

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Sweetfia
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 09:48 AM

Oh f**k!

Sorry, was a million miles away when i wrote that...the last 'be' should read 'because'.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 10:59 AM

This calls for a little pedantry:

People are typically confused about the exact meanings of "swearing", "cursing", "vulgarity", "sacrilege", and the like, and consequently refer to them interchangeably with the words "swearing" and "cursing".

"Swearing" is calling upon the deity (or some substitute) to witness the truth of what one says or promises. Thus, "So help me, God, it's true!" The Bible doesn't prohibit swearing; it's "false swearing" that's wrong--in other words, perjury, calling on God to verify what one knows is a lie.

"Cursing" is in effect placing a sentence of some bad future on someone or something: "Go to Hell!", or "May all your children have big noses!", or that wonderful (supposed) Chinese curse, "May you live in interesting times!"

"Sacrilege" (not 'sacrelige', or 'sacreligious'; see below) means in effect stealing sacred objects, at root, and by extension, in some way using what is sacred for a base or irreligious purpose. The etymology here is "sacri", meaning sacred, and "lego", to take--to steal sacred objects. The word "sacrilege", in other words, is not based on "religion" or "religious", as some confused spellers seem to think.

The F-word, discussed above, is none of these, but is a vulgarity, as are shit, crap, and so forth. They are merely disapproved of because in our culture "refined" or educated people don't throw them around, and their use marks one as a member of "the great unwashed", so to speak.

Always glad to clear up some concepts.

Yours truly, the wandering pedant,
Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 11:08 AM

So how many people here have actually taught their young children (if and when they were young) to use the kind of expletives they have on here????. I don't personally find it necessary to use that sort of language but of course it is up to the individual. I dislike hearing kids using the language , particularly teenagers on the Street and more particularly if it is directed at me or one of my friends/family.
Perhaps I am a little outdated but I prefer fresh conversation with plain speaking people...and there are many who still manage without expletives.
Best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: *daylia*
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 11:47 AM

Dave, that was great! :-) Personally I don't like cursing. In my experience vulgarity usually indicates weak ideas, feeble minds, poor social skills, emotional imbalances or any combination thereof. So I do try to avoid it.

Being in certain company / situations tends to bring it on, though ... and hey, there's no substitute for a f***ing good emotional vent sometimes, either.

Cursing can be socially quite effective too - kind of like dropping a bomb - as long as it's reserved for those very rare and oh-so-special moments. If not, it loses that riveting "shock power" real quick. And no one really listens to you anymore.

At least I don't. I know which 'Catters curse regularly, and I usually find myself just skipping their posts, for example. Too bad, because sometimes they DO have something worthwhile to share!

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 12:23 PM

Yes, I usually use it for those "bomb" moments myself. For when you need to grab people's attention...

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 12:27 PM

I confine my use of F**K to driving. Nixon it appears confined it to the Oval Office. Does that make him one of the great unwashed, Dave. And me too for that matter?

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 12:36 PM

as my daddy used to say, "Got dandruff and someofit itches"

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Once Famous
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 01:03 PM

Can anyone remember where "fuckashitpiss" came from?

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 01:05 PM

That's a nice one Bill... I always liked the one-word "Sumbitch!" version too.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 01:20 PM

I had to tone down my language when I moved to England - what passed for normal punctuation with the word "fuck" in Belfast seemed to shock a lot of people in Bristol, although maybe I'm just working in a genteel environment... Nothing like shouting "bollixing arse biscuits!" when the computer fucks up yet again ("fucks up" is a technical term, not a vulgarity).

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Peace
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 01:24 PM

Knew a fellow named Aldo years back. (He had pulled all but one of his own teeth with a pair of plyers according to his wife. Just thought I'd mention that. Oh yeah, after a bottle of vodka.) Anyway, he would say, "Son uh muh bitch" when it struck his fancy as it often did. He was a bartender-cook at a small hotel in the Catskills where I often went to play pool. Aldo and I got to know each other the course of three summers and I decided that the day had come to teach him how to say it properly. I left that afternoon after a dozen beers with him (winning all but two games of pool)and a few hours of teaching--well, that son uh mah bitch got me saying it his way and I have been ever since. I expect Aldo has passed on now, but please know if you read this Aldo, that when I get pissed I use your magic phrasing.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: PoppaGator
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 01:41 PM

Uncouth language can sometimes be creative, even delightful.

I remember my high school basketball coach, a former US Marine drill sergeant, would sometimes get apoplectic and come out with some stuff that made us laugh, involuntarily, at the *worst* possible time (i.e., when he most wanted to be taken seriously).

I can't think of a *great* example of his most creative expletive-coinage, but I do remember him telling us how badly he wanted us to beat a successful and upwardly-mobile coaching rival of his, calling the guy a "rat-bastard." None of us had ever heard the term before, so we all cracked up in his face, making him even more enraged.

(Coach was right to be jealous of the rat-bastard in question, by the way: He quickly moved up from Hillside High School to coach in college and in the NBA, and then on to a career in broadcasting --- Dick Vitale.)

Not from Coach Kelly, but a favorite curse I learned, I think, here in New Orleans about 20-25 years ago: "Eat shit and die!"

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: *daylia*
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 01:50 PM

When my boys were adolescents, I found the best way to cure them of the F word was to

1. take it literally, and
2. say it myself ... especially in front of their friends.

For example

Kid to friend (while playing video game)   "F*** this s***!"
Me (loudly, from next room)   "But I don't want to f*** that s*** !   Too stinky!"

Or ...

Kid to friend (while losing at video game)   "F*** off!"
Me (again from next room)   "Ok! Who's 'Off'?"

After they'd retrieve their jaws from the floor, things would usually tone down quite considerably for the rest of the evening.

But the best example of this was when my son fell in love with a disgusting line he'd heard in a song by a group called the "Insane Clown Posse". It went "eat a bowl of dicks". Well, he tortured me with that stupid bowl for months and months, until one fine day he decided to use it as a screen name on a poker site he liked.

Well, the next day "eatabowlofdicks" found a half a dozen messages from men on that site who wanted to know his hair color, eye color, astrological sign etc. He was just plain horrified, changed the screen name and I never heard from that bowl etc. HA! :-)

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 01:53 PM

PEDANT ALERT:

Cluin contributed "Fuckin'-ay!" I do not know whether he meant 'A' or 'aye'..I have heard this pronounced several ways, and have strong feelings about how it seems to have been corrupted.
   It was originally "fuckin AYE", with aye meaning 'yes', like pirates and other sailors say.....so it meant, "absolutely yes", but someone saw it in print, didn't understand, and started saying A....which has a ring to it, but 'means' very little.

I read that the Canadians even say 'fuckineh'...but...*grin*...

END PEDANT ALERT

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 01:56 PM

If you have a vocabulary, you don't need to curse--except in extraordinary circumstances.

I submit that debate on a web site is not an extraordinary circumstance.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 01:57 PM

I think the first time I heard the F-word in a public forum was back in the fall of 1969, from the auditorium stage of Michigan State University, as one of the organizers of a massive peace march stared out at the thousands of people jamming the place and exclaimed "Far fucking out!"

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 01:58 PM

I like to differentiate cussin' from cursing. Cursing is like the song "Nell Flaherty's Drake" or (my very own curse) "May all of your children grow up to be disappoints to you." Cussin' is what you do when your cutting the grass and you pull the power mower over the dog at the same time you run over the hose you were kicking out of the way when your foot found the concrete steps instead. It is permissible to combine the two when when the guy in the lane next to you turns across your lane to make a turn -- in this case you can also speculate about his or her hygiene, ancestry, possible afterlife, and general sexual habits.

Cussin' is okay -- letting off a good cussin' clears the soul and unblocks the psychological sinuses. Cursing should be reserved for the guy who stole my fence and similar sorts of undesirables.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 02:01 PM

"So how many people here have actually taught their young children (if and when they were young) to use the kind of expletives they have on here?"

That might be a good way to get them to clean up their language.

"Now children, I've written the words on the board with little stars in place of some of the letters, and I want you to fill them in, and write down sentences making use of them."   

"No Johnny f**K does not mean "fork" - you can't have been paying attention. I'm going to have to ask you to write the correct word out one hundred times before you go to play...""

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: grumpy al
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 02:20 PM

I find that "May your ear'oles turn to arse'oles and shit all over your shoulders" is a pretty good curse, however I can fucking swear with the best of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 02:33 PM

Some people obviously take pride in using expletives...enjoy yourselves folks whether on here or in real life.....I prefer to use a language where crudity doesn't exist..but that's just me!!! I'm proud of myself for not having to use that kind of language......You do what pleases you.
Best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: mack/misophist
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 03:08 PM

No matter how hard one tries, 'fuck' can never be the equivalent of 'make love'. It's derived from an unpronounceable Indo-European root word that means 'to pierce with a spear' and it's linguistic cousins (in English) are feud, fight, foe, and frigate (warship). At some as yet unexplained level it's intrinsically aggressive. A lot of old time hippies tried hard to turn it into a loving word. They had to give up.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Peace
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 03:18 PM

There is connotative language and there is denotative language. Confusion comes from mixing up the two.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 03:21 PM

Oh Brucie..you are such a fount of knowledge!. I'm confused.......LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: dianavan
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 03:26 PM

I thought 'fuck' was an abbreviation for, fornication under the command of the king' or something like that. Thought it dated back to a time in English history. Makes me wonder...

I think the use of the word varies greatly. During the 60's 'fuck' was used to puctuate almost any comment. In the States I heard the terms, fucked-up, fuckin' good, for fuck sake, etc.

When I moved to Canada, I heard (for the first time) fuck around!

It was usually used as a kind of "I'm bewildered" or "do you believe it?" comment. Seemed an odd expression even to one who was quite used to hearing street language.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 03:34 PM

It seems, then, that "Fuck" is a vulgarity, but "Fuck you" is a curse. Or is it a blessing?

clint

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: darkriver
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 03:37 PM

How many of you have seen the movie "The Great Liebowski"?

The old cowpoke, sittin' at the bowling alley bar, asks the Dude:
"Dude, is it necessary to use so many cuss words?" [or some such thing]

The Dude replies:
"What the fuck you talkin about, man?"

I suspect that most of the time that the people who overuse it aren't even aware of doing so.

My wife swears more than I do, and unfortunately she did a lot of that when our kids were younger, so now the lads use these words too much as well. Happily, wife has cleaned up her act, but now of course I have to work on the kids....

Doug

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 03:37 PM

brucie-I've pulled my own teeth with pliers after drinking a bottle of vodka as well.
them dentists are a fucking rip off.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Peace
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 03:37 PM

It goes like this: "Don't fuck around, buy a round."

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Once Famous
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 03:40 PM

It can help get a point across with impact.

Especially for those who genuinely find it offensive.

That's definately where it works best.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 03:42 PM

you speleed definitley wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 03:44 PM

It had an impact though jOhn LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 04:02 PM

It all depends on where i am. Take grannies for example...around one of my grannies, i could let off a stream of expletives that would make a whore blush and she wouldn't bat an eyelid. In fact, she would probably join in. Another granny in the same situation would frown upon my use of language unless i was quoting someone else or using it to make a point. Third granny (i have three, long story) would probably keel over on the spot. It depends on the company i'm in, and if i'm unsure as to what language is acceptable in any given company, i just don't swear unless i hear them doing it first.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 04:27 PM

Martin--

Get a point across?---not likely, especially when overdone, by somebody, who for instance, can't seem to express himself without foul language. Used sparingly it would be much more effective.

It is, however, wonderful for demonstrating the speaker's poverty of imagination and intellect.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 04:35 PM

An example of tamed language: "F'crying out loud!"

I rarely use "the words", since that's the way I speak, and I like to keep something in reserve for special occasions. But I can't imagine being upset by people using them freely, if that's just the way they speak, and they aren't setting out to upset people who don't deserve to be upset (like Blissfully's second two grannies). It's the attitudes behind what people say that matter, not what they say in itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 04:41 PM

"Say, have you read The Symposium? That Plato was some fuckin philosophisr!"

"He sure was a clever son of a bitch, wasn't he?"

"Dunno about that Sartre fellow but. Existentialist? More like a whinging pain in the arse who smoked too much..."

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Once Famous
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 04:46 PM

You mean like, "eat fecal matter, Ron Davies"

-or-

"go copulate yourself, Ron Davies"

-or-

"put a flag-pole in your rectum, Ron Davies."

I think that you will agree that these are all great examples of getting my point across without cussing or using foul language, but keeping it all so very clinical and sterile for your highly offensive ears.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 04:55 PM

Yeah...it is the feeling behind the words. If i said 'eat shit and die!' to a friend, what i would really mean is 'you're bugging me sooo much right now, but i love ya anyway'. And i'd have a big grin on my face when i said it, and they'd know what i meant.

If, however i said it to ....oh, i dunno, let's say Adolf Hitler...then i wouldn't have a grin on my face, and i would mean it quite literally.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:02 PM

So, Martin, how is the Martin Gibson School of Charm coming? You never did say.

And are you still having problems filling your class on "Filthy Invective"?


And, since you've returned to your home in the gutter, when did you say visiting hours were, in case we want to visit you?