BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger

Subject: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 03:15 PM

I heard the following report on CBS News Radio today.

While Pres. Bush was campaigning last week in Wisconsin, his motorcade passed a school bus loaded with kids. He wanted to give the kids a thrill so he rolled down the window of his limo and waved to them. The female bus driver gave Bush the finger in return. Yesterday, the school board informed her that she was fired. The reason given was that because she engaged in a vulgar sexual innuendo she was unfit to drive young school children. She is asking the ACLU to go to court for her to protect her first ammendment rights.

                                                 SOL ZELLER

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Peace
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 03:18 PM

I hope they do represent her. All she has to do is say, "I was simply telling President Bush that he's number one in my book."

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 03:21 PM

She did not use the index finger.
                                        SOL

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Becca72
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 03:35 PM

It shouldn't matter. We have bus drivers here in Maine that endanger the lives of the children on the bus every day with their poor driving skills (speeding, running red lights, etc.) and they are able to keep their jobs. This woman should not be fired for expressing her opinion of the president. How many of those kids have seen their parents give that very same gesture to fellow motorists?

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: GUEST,memyself
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 03:41 PM

I suppose I'm going to get jumped all over for this, but ... if you are in the employ of a school board and working with the kids, there are some things you just don't do. You don't tell them about your sexual fantasies, you don't give them the details of your wild weekend, you don't sell them cigarettes, you don't tell them mailicious gossip about their teachers, you don't use foul language in front of them, and you don't make obscene gestures to people you don't like in front of them. If you're determined to do any of those things, you probably run the risk of being fired. Tough luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Wesley S
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 03:43 PM

I disagree. If she were on her own time I'd support her all the way. But she was on the job. Adults are supposed to be able to control themselves. I would have fired her too.

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Mooh
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 03:45 PM

Constitutes a verbal reprimand in many workplaces, and often worth it too, though one needs to be careful how many verbals one collects. I take it the driver wasn't unionized?

Under the circumstances, she should be rewarded, but it's not a fair world is it.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 03:54 PM

Firing seems a bit extreme. Also, how do we know the children could see her gesture? While I agree, adults need to set a good example, but these days the gesture itself seems to be quite prevalent, among children as well as adults. It seems to have lost some of its impact in society through overuse, imo.

When I was a kid, the bus driver who was angry and slammed on his breaks to make a point, causing me to chip a tooth when my mouth hit the railing in front of me, wasn't even reprimanded, let alone fired.

I hope she gets her job back, if she wants it, even if she has to be written up in her file.

Another part of me, says "Right on Sister! Let's go dump some tea!"

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 03:56 PM

Fired? so what in some countries she could be tortured.

well, she could be legally tortured in this country too but she wasn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Peace
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 03:59 PM

Not yet!

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Bernard
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 04:04 PM

I have to agree that it's the wrong message in front of children. Maybe a reprimand would have been more appropriate, but we probably aren't in full possession of the facts...

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 04:11 PM

If she gave the finger to a soccer mom or a little old lady crossing the street, would you feel different if she were fired?

There is a time and place to give Bush the finger. I don't think in front of a busload of children that are in her care was the proper place.

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Wolfgang
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 04:11 PM

Bush deserves the finger and she deserves to be fired.
It was not the correct moment for a well deserved sign.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 04:16 PM

well put Wolfgang!

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 04:25 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 04:26 PM

I find obscene gestures offensive whoever they are aimed at.

Yes, she deserved to be fired for doing that with kids in her care.

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Deckman
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 04:32 PM

She should be given a raise ... and put in charge of driver training!

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: kendall
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 04:32 PM

What Wolfgang said.

In some states that gesture is considered simple assault.

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 04:40 PM

Am I the only one who thinks that there is no right moment for obscene gestures?

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Deckman
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 04:49 PM

YES!

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 04:51 PM

Presumably if she had given him the thmbs up instead she would have deserved to be fired as well? I would imagine that a lot of parents would have regarded that as grossly offensive.

If it happened over here the gesture involved would have been the V sign - which makes for a certain ambiguity.

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 05:24 PM

Woman deserves a medal. Do me a favour, busloads of kids have never seen anyone given the finger?

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 05:33 PM

Giving the finger doesn't teach kids anything.

Now had she followed it up with a carefully worded lecture on how they are to act responsibly when they reach voting age and not put another idiot in the house, well then she should have got a promotion for services to the rest of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: pdq
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 05:39 PM

She was working for a school district at the time. She was expected to do her job and behave in a respectable manor. She did not. Bye bye.

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 05:56 PM

I think firing was a bit extreme. If she were on duty, which, presumably she was, a severe reprimand may have been in order.

On the other hand, it was much too good an opportunity to pass up!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 06:08 PM

With what kids see in prime time TV, givin' the finger is mild...

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 06:35 PM

Now I wonder how the school board people will go about explaining exactly what the "sexual innuendo" involved consisted of.
.................................................

Kinky Friedman running as an independent for governor in Texas maybe put his finger on it when he commented on his own campaign hopes: "This may be a middle-finger vote."

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 06:35 PM

In Britain we give them two fingers - I guess "W" only gets one per brain cell.................

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 06:55 PM

As an exhibition of a secret adult kind, ahem, I know no child could possibly have any idea what it means. And nonetheless we have a Bill Of Rights which includes 'freedom of speech'. That has no restrictions what so ever and so, I suppose, the driver could not have signed a contract to remove what cannot be removed.

The gesture legal, her firing therefore isn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: The Badger
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 08:47 PM

America - the land of the free, provided you do as you are told. Gets moe like Britain under NEW Labour every day. Yippee!

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 09:18 PM

What about Bush? He's given the whole world the finger on several occasions. Should he be fired? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 09:36 PM

She should have had both hands on the wheel--that's why she was fired.

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 09:43 PM

maybe, sorefingers, but when my daughter's boss assaulted her with obscene shouting, the word "fuck" was said several times, she was told no when she applied for unemployment after walking out on him, because she had not TOLD him when he hired her that that kind of language was unacceptable. That's the law according to the powers that be in Wyoming.

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: GUEST,Nickhere
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 10:22 PM

Hasn't Dubya been giving the whole world the finger for quite some time? I hope he gets fired asap!

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Slag
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 11:24 PM

Maybe she was testing the wind? Responding to a pole? Or, responding to a Pole? Whatever she was doing, making that gesture is illegal in many states while driving or even as a passenger in a motor vehicle. Such laws have come about because of "Road Rage". As a political comment (free SPEECH ?), it makes about as much sense as most leftist statements I've heard and seen. Mostly emotional, irrational, no substance. Hold your slings and arrows--- there's been a lot of that from both side. Instead of button-pushing there should be intelligent debate. If Our Lady of Perpetual Busses had flipped off Al Gore or Hilary (sic) she should have received the same dismissal. When you are in uniform or engaged in the duties of a public entity you represent that entity. Imagine being a public official and getting flipped off by a postal worker, a policeman, an EMT? How long do you think that public servant with the big political opinion would last? Of course they'd be fired. It simply should not be done.

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 12:38 AM

It looks like the sort of charge you used to get in military dictatorships "Lack of respect for the Motherland". Oh, you mean the US is now one such?

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 04:30 AM

Plenty of things in life are technically "illegal" which are also essentially quite trivial and which happen all the time anyway and will in spite of any laws passed to control them. This incident was one of them.

Is there much likelihood that George Bush or his driver would have succumbed to "Road Rage", sprung out of their limousine, and assaulted the bus driver? ;-) I hardly think so. If they had, however, it would have made the story much more controversial and therefore newsworthy! I bet CNN would have loved that, eh? Gee, pity it didn't happen. (joke)

It's just one more farcical incident in a country that is becoming a little less sane with each passing year as it slides gradually into the grip of an Orwellian regime.

Still, I am not surprised by the arguments presented both by those who think the bus driver should have been fired, and those who think not. Each argument sounds pretty plausible from its own perspective. That's what usually happens with such things, and the only thing that's surprising is how tenaciously people will cling to only one view of a situation once they have formed an initial opinion about it. They lose all sense of accomodation and compromise.

Of course, their pride is at stake, right? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: GUEST,memyself
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 07:00 AM

Hey, I'm willing to compromise - once the whole thing has blown over, if the driver has kept her nose clean, she should be re-hired - on condition that she not spend the rest of her career boring everyone with the tale of her moment of glory, or ranting about the injustice she suffered ...

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: jeffp
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 07:18 AM

The first amendment does not apply to conditions of employment. When you are driving a vehicle which has your employer's name on it, you are representing that employer, not yourself. You have a duty to represent your employer in a good light. She failed to do that. The first amendment does not apply.

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 07:55 AM

A finger in front of her body is unseen by the kids.

Now if she had mooned...

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Bee
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 09:02 AM

IMO, not appropriate, but not a firing offense. I know when I worked with kids, an obscene gesture would have gotten me into some trouble, regardless of how many of the kids were familiar with it. Also, I wouldn't inflict my personal politics on a bunch of other people's children.

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 09:19 AM

I'd have fired her.

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Mooh
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 09:55 AM

Yeah Guest, we know already.

Firing is the ultimate punishment in the workplace, and unless there was a documented history of such behavior with suitable notice, procedure, and standards attached, one offence shouldn't result in termination. Sure, maybe it was a stupid thing to do, but one slip where no one gets hurt shouldn't mean the end to gainful employment. There are degrees of discipline and jumping to the employment equivalent of capital punishment is neither fair or well reasoned.

Feel free to disagree, but I hope you don't have a moment of witnessed indiscretion in the workplace where someone gets all hysterical and demands your head.

Fwiw, I suspect there are many neighbourhoods where Shrub would get worse than the finger, and deservedly so.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Cruiser
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 10:02 AM

As a registered Republican who despises Mr. Bush, what the bus driver did was inexcusable. She should have at least been put on leave without pay while her previous record was checked to see if she had other infractions. Firing does not seem too extreme in this case.

The world is getting too rude and adults do not need to reinforce this trend in the presence of children. What people say or do in the privacy of their homes or other places where they have a reasonable expectation of privacy, as long as acknowledged laws are not broken, should be their business. What people do in public is open to the scrutiny of decency and the law.

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Deckman
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 10:03 AM

This story ain't going away folks! It appears that Rep. David Reichert was riding with the President when the incident happened. The Rep. called the school officials the next day and complained. This morning on TV, a tape recording was played where Rep. Reichert is heard bragging about the firing of the bus driver! He is in a very tight race in his district. This incident, and his actions, may well cost him the election. It's going to be interesting to see what happens next Tuesday.

People out here on the West Coast are very mindfull of "fairness."

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Bernard
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 10:10 AM

Cruiser - I couldn't agree more. Chldren are the adults of the future, and whilst some people make the excuse that they see worse every day on TV, it doesn't mean we should reinforce such behaviour.

Children need to see positive examples of correct behaviour, as they are natural mimics...

Politeness doesn't cost anything, other than a bit of effort.

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Old Guy
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 10:23 AM

Supposin' W gave the school bus driver the finger.

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 10:52 AM

Yup, I've got it now: fire the bus driver for using a gesture [ entirely appropriate to the situation & to Dumbya's actions ] that every kid on the bus knows and probably uses on a daily basis, but keep George W. Bush et. al. in office despite their criminal acts.

Ya gotta wonder what some people have for brains, and the issues they choose to express righteous indignation over.

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 11:07 AM

I'm wishing he did, Old Guy! (grin) As I said earlier, it would make for an even better story that way and this would allow the media to raise more shit about it, but I guess they're already getting pretty good mileage out of it anyway, right?

I don't think I ever knew a kid in grade school who didn't know that gesture quite well, and most of them used it now and then too...even some of the girls.

Subject: RE: BS: Driver Fired For Giving 'W' The Finger
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 11:47 AM

As much as I hate Bush and agree with the bus driver's sentiments, she is an adult and she has to control herself better than that in front of kids. She can give Bush the bird all she wants from her car but not on work hours where she has to serve as some kind of example to the kids she drives around. That wasn't a very good example. Sorry, but she deserved to get axed.