BS: Cursing

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Once Famous
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:07 PM

Ron

tsk, tsk, your such a little girl. Are you still a virgin?

Do you think oral sex is dirty?

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:08 PM

Re: my post of 4:27

QED

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Once Famous
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:11 PM

ron

re-read my post of 4:46

again, no cuss words. but OBVIOUSLY major impact!

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: PoppaGator
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:12 PM

dianavan said (an hour or so ago):

"I thought 'fuck' was an abbreviation for, fornication under the command of the king' or something like that. Thought it dated back to a time in English history. Makes me wonder..."

Interesting -- I hadn't heard that theory, but one that I *have* heard is that The F Word was originally an acronym for "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge," and that it was posted on the stocks where a person (usually if not always a woman, one would assume) was punished for said offence.

"Fornication Under the Command of the King" would be the opposite of unlawful -- but what instance of fornication would be mandated by the crown? Perhaps a "nobleman" claiming his "right" to bed some pretty young peasant bride-to-be?

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:14 PM

However Martin. it demonstrates perfectly that you still haven't discovered anything above your waist yet.

And when did you say visiting hours were?

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:30 PM

Poppagator and Dianavan:

Those "explanation" of the F-word are what is called folk etymology: Trying to come up with some superficial explanation of a word without looking into the actual history of the word.   

If you look into Snopes, you'll find those "explanations" exploded.

POSH (supposedly Port Out Starboard Home) is another popular but false folk etymology.

As a very effective rule of thumb, any time you see a word "explained" by use of an acronym, you can be pretty sure that the explanation is folk etymology. The use of acronyms to make words (such as the historical SNAFU) is modern, just not part of the way the language developed before about the early 20th Century.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: GUEST,AKgrown
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:33 PM

I've checked this one out before...

'Fuck' is definitely not an acronym, it comes from Middle English- fuccant-which means "they fuck". It was first written in a poem in a mixture of Latin and English sometime before 1500.

Well, I know the finger went back to ancient Greece and Rome. One of the perverted emperors (either Nero or Caligula, I can't remember) had his subjects kiss his middle finger, as a double-entendre for you-know-what.

Hope this clears it up!

AKgrown

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Once Famous
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:33 PM

And you didn't answer my question, Ron

do you think oral sex is dirty?

I think you do.

You are a blast to tease, Ron.

come back often.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Peace
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:39 PM

"Why, then, 'tis none to you: for there is nothing either good or badbut thinking makes it so: to me it is a prison."

Of course, Hamlet was talking about Denmark, but he could have as easily been talking about words. I recall very few scenes in movies where cussin' has been effective. But every now and then, ya know?

"Braveheart" (I know, I know) had a scene in which the Irishman yelled, "Fock you." I though that was great. More I think for the way it was said than the word itself. Another was a scene in "Die Hard with a Vengance" where the lady softly mouths the word "Asshole" about a superior officer. Some times are more appropriate than others I suppose.

I learned that not ALL times are appropriate in Dunn's Restaurant in Montreal. I was 18 and I took my grandmother out to dine. I was full of piss and vinegar, and I dropped the BIG word at the table. My grandmother--all five foot, 95 pounds of her--reached across the table and gave me a little reminder across the face. I went backwards off the chair, thus receiving glares from other diners. I got up, apologized, and sat back down. I have always remembered that. To this day, Mary Walsh owns a piece of my heart, and any time I am tempted to use the eff word, a thoght of her flashes across my mind as I consider whether it would be worth the pain.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Once Famous
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:47 PM

fucking good story, Brucie.

don't you think it was a fucking good story, Ron?

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:49 PM

Martin.If you have not discovered anything above your waist..I envy you....I wish all my thoughts and deeds could be below that level....especially at my age LOL.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Peace
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:50 PM

How the hell are ya, Martin? Crazy as ever I see. lol

I can just imagine you as a teenager in the classroom. I think I was the same, tell ya the truth. Neck deep ALL the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:52 PM

Sure was, Martin.

But, if you'd read carefully, you'd see that one of the points is the same one I made---that cursing is far more effective when used sparingly.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Once Famous
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:53 PM

well, G-silver. I like it both ways. But I think Mr. Davies is so enamored with his pseudo-intellectualism that he has lost touch with or never knew anything at all about some of life's real pleasures.

In short, he's a prude.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: PoppaGator
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:55 PM

Uncle DaveO: I never believed those acronym stories were true, but I see how my post could have been read that way. I meant merely to pass one such story one along, just in contrast to the other one. I think you're correct in that making up acronyms is a chracteristically modern practice.

As an American, I grew up hearing "fuck you, "get fucked," "fuckface," etc., etc., but NEVER encountered the expression "fuck off" until visiting Canada (Toronto) as a college kid in the mid-60s. I know it's a longstanding expression popular in the UK and Ireland as well as in Canada, but I believe its use in the US is recent and still relatively exotic.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:58 PM

Poor Poppa Gator....no-one ever told me to!!!!!!!
Must have hit you hard eh????
Hope you come through it with wisdom and understanding.
Best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 06:16 PM

Martin--

Congratulations on poking your head out of the gutter.   There's really a lot more room out here.

And if you need your fix, you can always dip back in.

You might be surprised how rich the English language is.

But unless you're really irked, you can reserve your favorite mode of expression for people who cut you off on the interstate.

Unless, of course you're permanently mad at the world---in which case you should up your meds.

Or you really are unaware of any part of your body than your rear?


Let's see, that's about 3 years old---and a pretty screwed up 3 year old at that.


By the way, not caring for your unimaginative, crude manner of communication by no means makes a person a prude.

For instance, I enjoyed the "Fuck the South" article----but that author showed a lot more imagination, and humor, than you ever do, even though the language more than exceeded your standard.


You might want to try a different model than the one you're currrently using.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: dianavan
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 07:42 PM

Martin - Just exactly what is your problem with little girls. Why do you use the term as a curse?

Could it be that you are a pedophile?

d

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 07:44 PM

I think it has worrying connotations from a supposed adult male.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 07:47 PM

"Supposed" is the operative word. I think we have ample proof the mental age hovers around 3 (and, as I said, not a well-adjusted 3 year old).

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 07:52 PM

How come my teacher in primary school could say shit when she dropped something, my english teacher in high school could say bastard when reading from 'Of Mice and Men'...But i got a bollocking for calling one measly year head an impotent power-tripping fuck-pig? The mind boggles, it truly does....

Incidentally he deserved it. The term ignominious wank may have been invented for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 07:55 PM

Blissfully Ignorant, I am enchanted by your phrase, ignominious wank. Wonderful!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 08:07 PM

Why thankyou!

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Peace
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 08:09 PM

Your way with words is aptly complemented by your sense of humour--compounded with justice.

I am a teacher, and as such I have a minor facility with lip reading. It has stood me in good stead over the years. It provides one the opportunity to be clever on occasion.

Two yeatrs ago a student disliked a particular assignment to do with Shakespeare. He mouthed the words "fuckin' asshole" as he read the requirements of the homework. I said, "*****, the noun will cost you three hundred words, but the adjective will cost you another five." He did the extra essay, but he needed the practice anyway.

He graduated last year and he and I stay in touch.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 08:27 PM

Lol!

Just for the record, the ignominious wank in question was the only teacher i felt compelled to swear at, and then it took a lot of provocation. I finally snapped when he pulled up one of my classmates and subjected him to a torrent of abuse for miss-spelling most of his essay, completely disregarding the fact that the pupil was dyslexic. Said pupil understandably told the teacher to fuck off; the teacher then turned to the rest of us saying, 'Well, i bet you all think he's really hard for saying that!'
Well, along with therest of the class i shouted 'yes!', adding that he was an impotent power-tripping fuckpig.

The other teachers all hated him, too. ONe of them actually laughed when she was told.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: mack/misophist
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 09:27 PM

Note to GUEST,AKgrown: The 'f' word is certainly older than middle English. There are close analogues of it in most of the Germanic tongues and some of the Slavic ones.

And for the 'finger', in The White Goddess, Graves says that in classical times, the middle finger was associated with the god Saturn and popularly called 'the fool's finger' because there are more fools in the world than anything else (see the section on 'dactyls'). The classic equivalent of the modern 'finger' was called the 'fig' and was formed by thrusting the tip of the thumb between the two adjacent fingers. The first time I saw it mentioned in print was in a footnote in The Divine Comedy. The gesture is still used in southern Italy.

While I'm at it, the 'thumbs up' gesture, as used in the Roman arena, did not mean 'spare him'. It was made with an upward jab and meant 'gut him'.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Once Famous
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 09:44 PM

No, dianavan I am far from being a pedophile. That's the kind of accusation that could get you a lawsuit if Martin Gibson was my real name. You would be easy to find and there are plenty of lawyers in my family.

Lttle Girls is what Arnold Shwarzneggar has refered to wimpy guys as. I do it in gest to wimpy guys like Ron Davies who think they know a lot but are about as street wise as Barney Fife. If you were informed, you would know that instead of being a frustrated man-hating dried up female crotch canal of a feminist.

I'm not irked, Ron. I just like cussing at you because you keep cumming back for more.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 10:01 PM

If there weren't a whole lot of Ron Davies in the world, cursing and vulgarity simply wouldn't work.

IMO, an equivalent "stuck emotionally and psychologically at age 3" syndrome exists as much among the Ron Davies as the Martin Gibsons, being about equally fixated upon and obsessed with "below the waist" vulgarity and cursing.

As adults, it's all about authoritarianism, and one's orientation towards it I think. If you have a strong authoritarian streak, you are opposed to the use of colorful language (which is how I refer to such). If you have issues with authority, or delight in frustrating authoritarianism, you will season your language with color, pepper, or whatever you have to hand.

I personally think the use of colorful language is something that should be done creatively and also to get a rise out of the prudes among us. So the more unusual, the more points awarded, in my book.

BTW, I'm proud to say, I've taught many a youngster the right way to use colorful language!

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 10:02 PM

I'm borderline dislexic, and often have problems spelling [not sure if anyone here has ever noticed this?]
when i was at school i was put into a specail class,
one of the kids in the corridor one day called me a thick bastard, i said to him, "say that again, and i'll smash your fucking face in!"
he said it again, so i walked up to him, and hit him across the head with a big heavy text book.
at that very moment, the headmaster walked past, he said
"don't treat books like that john, they are expensive!"

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 10:06 PM

Lol!
There's nothing wrong with prudery, as long as it's done in private, behind closed doors.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 10:29 PM

Ah, Martin, in addition to your other talents you're also a diplomat. The State Department needs your help--at least the Bush State Department--you'd fit right in with the image Bush is conveying--that's why the US is so popular in the world now.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 10:45 PM

If someone felt they could judge my intelligence by the number of times i said fuck, then i'd have a hard time crediting them with the intelligence required to make that judgement. Therefore, it wouldn't make a blind bit of fucking difference to me....

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 11:19 PM

And anyway, a well-placed fuck can really make your day.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 11:26 PM

Ah, but there is something that has not yet been discussed here, and that is blasphemy -- or, rather, the use of religious things, themes, ideas in ways that are hardly religious.

"Close the door! Were you born in a barn?" "As a matter of fact, yes. There was a star in the East, shepherds, angels...."

"Jesus Fucking Christ!"

"Christ on a [crutch, skateboard, surfboard, crouton, etc.]!"

"Holy Mother Mary Shit!"

"God's Blood!"

Blasphemy was, for many years and to an extent still is, a definitely Catholic thing. Protestants had sex and scatology.

Having grown up in a Catholic household and in the "Christian" tradition, I can't discuss this in relation to non-Christian religions, but I suspect they too have similar things.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 11:35 PM

I much prefer vulgarity to blasphemy. Blasphemy only offends those of a religious persuasion, as opposed to vulgarity which offends almost everyone if used carefully.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 11:41 PM

Oh yes, how could I have missed that?

Martin--

You also specialize in empty threats, while whining to higher authority if things don't go your way, as in "The Affair of Impersonating Martin On Mudcat"----truly a world-shaking event. You are a true piece of work .

Sweet dreams.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: dianavan
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 12:35 AM

Actually Ron, not all of Martin's threats are empty. He once PM'd me to tell me he was going to report me to Joe and he did. He's just a tattle-tale troll who operates out of fear.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 12:51 AM

There was one other occasion when i swore at a teacher, but that was taken in good humour as was intended...

Picture the scene- i'm in the school library, and i'm in first year (about 12 years old). I pick up a book i'd like to read, and go to check it out only to be told that i can't take out that book until i'm in third year.

'Why not?', i ask.
'Because this book has language in it that the school considers inappropriate for someone your age', is the reply (or words to that effect)
'What,' i say, 'like fuck?'
Teacher says 'yes', with a forced stern look and a repressed giggle.
'But i already know fuck, where's the harm in me reading it?'
'Oh....here. Don't tell anyone. And tuck your shirt in.'

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 09:20 AM

Speaking of blasphemy, I think the most startling expression I ever heard was back in 1963 when I was doing reconnaisance geology around the wilds of Moose Head Lake in Maine. We'd had a hard day running survey lines through the "slash" that the timber crews had left behind and it started to rain, soon turning into a downpour. One of our crewmembers from Virginia split the heavens with "By the quivering **** of the ******ed ****** of Jesus!" I save that one for very special occasions.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 09:47 AM

Ah, and that's the rule! Know your audience!

Cut loose with a "Holy Jesus McFuck!" around, say, Jerry Fallwell or Pat Robertson and you'll get their attention better than plain old scatology.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 10:03 AM

Blissfully Ignorant, I'm in total agreement with you about the stupidity of the claim that a person's intelligence can be adduced based upon their use of colorful language.

I'm a school librarian at a school where my father once attended. When it looked a bit dodgy as to one of my own children graduating on time, he told me the story of how it was questionable as to whether he would graduate on time. It seems he had a severe case of senioritis (as we call it here), and just days before graduation, colorfully let a blue streak of language fly--at the school librarian.

Of course, it all turned out fine in the end, the whole family graduating on time with their mediocre education, and a pronounced gift for the use of colorful language.

I am forever making coy apologies to students for using colorful language in their presence. They love it because it adds an eccentric air to my librarian persona, which helps break up the monotony for them of being forced to endure the rest of the "proper" behaving staff all day every day, day in, day out...

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 10:59 AM

ROTFL! jOhn's headmaster is great.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Once Famous
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 11:14 AM

That's right, dianavan and ron Davies.

Cross the line and you are fucking with big trouble. I don't care for empty threats.

dianavan, I'd rat on you in a moment as you are so hung-up in your feminist abuse, all men whould be warned of you, if they don't know your type already.

Typical of you Ron, to grope for something to say and tie it back to Bush.

Do you wear a board behind your back to help support your spine? You are perhaps the lamest of all the pseudo-intellectuals here. Besides, you are boring.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 12:45 PM

I have to say that I don't consider the constant use of fuck, shit, crap, piss, cunt (and all the rest) "colorful". They are, especially in certain mouths, so common as to be drab.

Now Blissfully Ignorant's "ignominious wank"--THAT'S colorful!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 12:47 PM

I'm reminded by something above of Woody Allen's wonderful statement: "Sex isn't dirty--unless you do it right!"

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 12:54 PM

Of course the use of vulgarity is common, especially among teenagers. I find as I have gotten older I use colorful language less, but to much greater effect than I did when younger.

What I taught my own kids was that it's all just words, like hurtful name calling, and that the words only have power over us if we imbue those words with that kind of power. That is something we control, not the authorities and name callers in life. I also taught them to be careful where they used colorful language, because the reality is, they can get in trouble with authorities for using such language, regardless of the circumstances.

But there is no denying the fact that for those people who use the language, colorfully or otherwise, it does often feel VERY GOOD to use vulgarities in everyday speech, and for others who are disgusted by the use of such language, it often feels VERY BAD to hear it, as it tends to enrage and/or disgust those who are prudish authoritarian types when they hear it.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 01:58 PM

The other day I called something "twaddle" and the person I was speaking with was shocked.

Personally, I much prefer to combine the Usual Words in unusual ways, or combine them with blasphemy or even common, ordinary words. The "regular" ways of using them are boring, trite, and therefore ineffective.

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: Once Famous
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 02:18 PM

Maybe they thought you meant "twattle" which is material of the twat!

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: annamill
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 03:07 PM

"ah gowon, even your nose has been blown"! One of my favorites.

You say "tomato, I say f**king tomato,
You say potato, I say f**king potato,

tomato, f**king tomato,
potato, f**king potato.
Let's call the whole thing off!

Honey hates it when I say f**king....funny..I can say it but I can't write it...funny..

I grew up in the late fiftys, in Newark NJ!
If anyone has ever seen The Sopranos they know where as of I speak.
F**k and Sh*t were part of the language. Much like the clicks in the language of some of the tribes in Africa. Mariam Makebe sings a song called "The Click" song. (Does that make this a music thread?)

Well, anyway, as I grew older I realized that using this foulness would not get me very far in life. So I don't use it in public. Often.

Ron and Martin, cut the shit, it's getting f**king boring. Take it to the PMS please.

(Do you suppose the clicks are a form of foul language. Wouldn' that be a pisser??)

Love, Annamill

Subject: RE: BS: Cursing
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 05:05 PM

Fuckin A--100!