BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...

Subject: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 09:37 AM

Well, gol danged...

Certain folks plainly shouldn't drink and Mel Gibson is one of them... Bad enough to be arrested for driving under the influence but what happened in the police car and at the police station is almost beyond belief...

Fir details Google in TMZ.com...

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 10:10 AM

Heh, heh.

Mad Max of Malibu--I guess this means he is not only officially off the wagon, but also very officially anti-Semitic. As if we didn't already know that.

Some weird shit with that dude.

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: C. Ham
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 10:20 AM

Why should any be surprised that the son of a vicious, anti-Semitic Holocause denier should turn out to be a vicious anti-Semite?

BTW, it's also possible that Mel's father's long record of anti-Semitism had no impact on Mel. Maybe he came to his conclusions in the past couple of days by reading some of the threads on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 10:24 AM

Touche there, C Ham.

Of course, I'm not a big fan of the defenders of Israel's militarism and status as regional puppet of the US government either.

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 10:26 AM

A Hitler was a short arse as was Mussolini, what does that tell you about the vertically challenged, crap Scots accented Mel the Oz Midget?
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: GUEST,Little Jack Horton
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 10:36 AM

MacKenzie,

I like to headbutt anti-shortist bastards like you right in the balls.

And I'll out one in the balls of that Gibson creep too.

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: bobad
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 10:57 AM

There are plenty of ignorant pieces of shit in this world. Just because his name is Mel Gibson doesn't make him less ignorant or less a piece of shit.

His apology has the true ring of a high priced Hollywood lawyer about it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 10:58 AM

Yep, that's the level, kick a man when he's down!

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: 282RA
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 10:59 AM

Sure it wasn't Martin Gibson?

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 11:06 AM

Let's hear what Mel himself has to say about the arrest.

Mel's Statement

Where it appears he distances himself from the views he propounded when under the influence.
"I acted like a person completely out of control when I was arrested, and said things that I do not believe to be true and which are despicable. I am deeply ashamed of everything I said and I apologize to anyone who I have offended"

CHEERS
Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 11:08 AM

I thought the very same thing of that apology, and more.

The first rule of damage control for politicians and celebrities (rather like the first step in a 12 step rehab program) is to apologize. One need not admit to wrongdoing (which is legally inadvisable in instances like this, especially). One need just apologize for behaving badly.

Mad Max of Malibu has very good handlers. But then, an alcoholic, egomaniacal, anti-Semitic, two bit Hollywood bad boy would need good handlers and lawyers to survive his own excesses, no?

And of course, we haven't even thrown in buying land and building your very own cult church yet, have we?

Only in Hollywood or Washington DC could a perverted, sick man of this sort hold such power and influence.

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 11:18 AM

Nigel, there is nothing sincere about Mel's statement. It was crafted, as bobad pointed out, by his lawyers and handlers. He had no choice but to apologize, because the damning evidence was already out there.

If he had been able to keep it all under wraps, there would never have been a statement.

I can appreciate you might be a fan of Mel's films. But that still doesn't change the facts. The guy is a jerk, he got caught doing things that if you or I had done them, would most definitely have kept us in jail until we appeared before a judge. There is no mystery here. He was given special treatment, in large part because he has done favors for the sheriff who suppressed the original arrest report, and released him upon his own recognizance for a paltry bail sum.

Anyone else who had done what Mel Gibson is alleged to have done would have been slapped with assaulting a police officer charges so fast it would make Mel's tequila bottles in the back seat spin out of control.

There is special treatment being doled out to Mel Gibson. There has been a cover up by the sheriff, who still refuses to release the original arrest report or the mug shot. They certainly haven't had trouble getting out the mug shots and arrest reports for other celebs like Nick Nolte (same sheriff's dept, not incidentally).

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 11:24 AM

Oh, and I might add this will only add to the lore and allure that already make Mel Gibson a folk hero to the men who worship at the altar of Rush Limbaugh/Sean Hannity/Dick Cheney "traditional conservative manly men" types.

They can't get enough of this sort of bad boy hype regarding their folk heros, no matter how much they rule the airwaves these days.

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 11:30 AM

I'm not an all-out Mel Gibson fan, I just dislike the general attempt to pile in and kick a man while he's down.
I accept that someone may have crafted the statement on his behalf, although I feel he is sufficiently intelligent to have written it himself.
Bobad only says "it has the ring of a high priced lawyer about it". Guest is adamant that it was written by his "lawyers and handlers". That is amazing inside knowledge (if knowledge it be!!)

As for keeping him in jail until he appears before a judge, surely that is only necessary where the perpetrator might make a run for it, or have given false ID. What would be the point of locking him up before a hearing if he has been positively identified.
"The first rule of damage control for politicians and celebrities (rather like the first step in a 12 step rehab program) is to apologize. One need not admit to wrongdoing (which is legally inadvisable in instances like this, especially). One need just apologize for behaving badly.

In his statement Mel does admit to driving after drinking "when I should not have" Going by Guest's assertions, a lawyer would not have him making that statement!

Nigel
Just trying to keep things on an even keel!

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 11:40 AM

According to the arrest report, Gibson did, in fact, 'make a run for it'.

It is generally well known and accepted wisdom that celebrities and politicians never write these sorts of mea culpa statements themselves. So that crack about 'insider knowledge' is nothing more than a ridiculous to discredit what I have said, pure and simple.

Assaulting a police officer charges are also part and parcel of what gets charged when suspects hurl insults at the arresting officers, anywhere in the US. As is the charge of resisting arrest, which also wasn't charged.

Which is why the Sheriff's Dept's own civilian review board has already announced it is investigating the way this arrest and subsequent charges against the suspect have been handled.

The charges, if it had been Jane/John Doe, would have included:

Suspicion of DUI
Resisting arrest
Assaulting a police officer

The charges, as they stand right now, are only suspicion of DUI.

Something fishy is going on, and it ain't just with Mel Gibson. It is with the Sheriff of the Malibu dept. who covered this up. That is a much bigger story than Mel falling off the wagon and getting nailed for a DUI.

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 11:48 AM

I also never suggested that his lawyer would tell him not to mention the DUI. Lawyers know when to admit to facts (like breathalyzer tests, and actual legal charges being filed), and when to bluster and obfuscate. That's why the statement so delicately tip-toes around admissions of what he actually said and did during the process of being stopped, searched and breathalyzed, and being booked.

He just said he doesn't believe anything he said while inebriated, in hopes that will possibly prevent more charges from being filed against him.

Had he just shut the fuck up, and accepted the DUI like a man, he wouldn't be in the hot water he finds himself in.

Let us not forget, he is currently working with Disney on a new film, and with ABC TV--most ironically the ABC gig--which is about a Holocaust survivor.

Can you say "project cancellations" Mr. Rogers?

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 11:59 AM

From his statement linked above : "I have battled the disease of alcoholism for all of my adult life and profoundly regret my horrific relapse."

Clearly not enough to put away his Driving Licence & hire a chauffeur though.

Has there been anti-Semitic stuff from him before then? I wasnt previously aware of whats been said about his father, back up the thread a few posts.

I had thought Mel was just anti-British.

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 12:13 PM

From what I saw of the "passion of the christ",I believe Mel Gibson to be a religious fundamentalist. This means to me that his religion becomes a panacea for alcohol excess.

Or to put it this way, religion can be the gateway to addiction.And vice-versa.

The pattern of the Christian "swing" has been established by Jimmy Swaggart and others by preaching the Manichean "good" and lapsing into "backsliding".

This is probably because religion is used as a protective device against destructive behavior. We see this in Bush.

Alcohol addiction is a problem that doesn't require condemnation but understanding. I would prefer to give him credit for admitting a mistake which is not in vogue these days particularly in Washington.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: SINSULL
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 12:17 PM

First David Hasselhoff, now Mel Gibson. What's the world coming to?
Giant YAAAWWWNNNN.

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: bobad
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 12:31 PM

Does Mel Gibson have a Jewish problem?

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 01:08 PM

I'm not condemning his alcoholism. I'm condemning him getting special preferential treatment from the Sheriff of Malibu.

There is a big difference.

The fact that he had his handlers issue a statement on his behalf was to be expected. Hell, it might have taken Cheney a week, or whatever, but he made the mea culpa statement because not making it (which would have been Cheney's preference) was causing problems with the administration's supporters and poll numbers.

Did anyone really expect that Mel Gibson's publicist would NOT issue a statement in an attempt to salvage the situation as best as could be done? Come on. Nobody is that naive anymore, are they?

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 01:24 PM

But aren't the Lebanese technically 'semites' too? I know the Palestinians are. And saying you hate them and actually killing them (as Israel is doing) are two different things. And "the Jewish state" of Israel does indeed seem to be dragging us into another war. First Lebanon, then Syria, then Iran...then Russia and China and WW3. No one's too fond of "the Jewish state" of Israel right now. I'm just glad Gibson's able to voice his opinion (First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution). In Israel he'd be charged with some kind of bogus social control crime. The same freedom of speech protections that apply to Gibson apply to you American Christian-bashers on this forum.

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: Folkiedave
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 01:26 PM

A Hitler was a short arse as was Mussolini, what does that tell you about the vertically challenged, crap Scots accented Mel the Oz Midget?

As Tony Capstick used to say (he was small too) "Think of all the famous people in history who were small: Hitler; Mussolini; Scobie Breasley, Willie Carson........"

(for our American friends, the last two are racehorse jockeys).

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 01:37 PM

Apologising is one thing, and meaning it is another.
G

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 01:40 PM

Guest 1:24, you seem to be operating under a misperception about how the law reads when it comes to speaking to a police officer trying to arrest you.

In that circumstance, your rights of free speech are limited, in order to tip the power balance to the authorities.

The content of his anti-Semitic words aren't the issue in a legal sense. Calling one of the female officers "sugar tits", attempting to run away from the officers when they are trying to get you in the squad, and ranting like a fucking lunatic about Jews, when paired with some dodgy behavior to match your rants (as mentioned above), does bring this to a level where, if it were Jane/John Doe, they would have been charged with resisting arrest and attempted assault of a police officer, in addition to the DUI charge.

Cops usually tolerate a lot when dealing with drunks (though the class and race exceptions to that rule can be absolutely despicable). The arresting officers were apparently trying to cut Gibson some slack. ie they offered to put him in the squad without handcuffs if he promised to be cooperative, which he apparently wasn't. But if the reports surfacing today are true, that Gibson was so out of control that one of the arresting officers actually videotaped him to cover their own ass, Gibson and the Sheriff could both be in more hot water than we are seeing right now.

I think what Gibson truly fears at this point is not so much release of the mug shot, but possible release of the videotape. Hence, the immediate damage control efforts over the weekend, before any of this gets submitted to a judge by a zealous prosecutor looking for glory come Monday morning.

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 02:27 PM

Guest 11:40
Yes, it does seem there is a dual operation of the law.
"The charges, if it had been Jane/John Doe, would have included:

Suspicion of DUI
Resisting arrest
Assaulting a police officer

The charges, as they stand right now, are only suspicion of DUI.

Something fishy is going on, and it ain't just with Mel Gibson. It is with the Sheriff of the Malibu dept. who covered this up. That is a much bigger story than Mel falling off the wagon and getting nailed for a DUI. "

"If it had been Jane/John Doe" would we even have heard about it before he gets his day in court?

According to the arrest report, Gibson did, in fact, 'make a run for it'.

The point I made about that was that once arrested and identified he would be unlikely to attempt to 'leave town' before any hearing.
Stopped by police while over the limit must be a good reason to try to avoid arrest before being identified/breath (or whatever) tested

CHEERS
Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 03:11 PM

Mel Gibson needs a C.A.T. scan....

Maybe he's got a tumour... It'd certainly explain why his last few movies have been shite

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: robomatic
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 03:31 PM

Maybe he was just acting out his role in "South Park"

Anyway, we'll always have "Thunderdome"!

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 04:25 PM

Great artists of yore---banned and cancelled---Think Charlie Chaplin, JOhn Garfield, Orson Welles, etc; Banned for their thinking and not their bogoted and loutish behaviour.

      More recently works scheduled for PBS cancelled (or re-scheduled is the euphynism) because they might be controversial.

    Disney announces that it no longer will release and distribute any "R" rated films.   

    Let us see how long it is before they cancel their affiliation with a drunken lout who, by any normal standard, would be cooling his heels in jail and have his license revoked (as a starter).

    Is it possible double standards are now the standard in Hollywood and, perhaps, in many other places.   Drug enhanced athletes, DUI congressmen, and more go their merry way after a bit of embarrasing press. John Doe gets his come uppance rapidly and can ill afford the legal representation once esconced in "the system". I also would add that I doubt, sincerely, that many of these "authorities" are color blind and/or religion blind.   

    You would think, however, that the female officer in this case would blow a large whistle. The Sheriff, I can only assume, is trying to cover hs political ass when it should be Gibson doing that---covering his public and commercial ass.
Solution is for studios to avoid him for their own good---he has, for good reason, his own production company---but you still need distribution.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 06:51 PM

*lol* Folkiedave...hadnt heard that particular 'Capstickism'...I wonder if he put Tich Frier in there on occasion?

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 03:20 AM

Okay, you convinced me - he's lunatic. poor sod.

great article. thanks.

bobad

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: Matt_R
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 04:11 AM

According to the arresting officer, when his requested backup arrived (a female cop), Mel Gibson said "What are you looking at, sugar tits?"

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: Matt_R
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 04:14 AM

"The report says Gibson told the deputy, 'You mother fucker. I'm going to fuck you.' The report also says 'Gibson almost continually [sic] threatened me saying he 'owns Malibu' and will spend all of his money to 'get even' with me.'

The report says Gibson then launched into a barrage of anti-Semitic statements: 'Fucking Jews… The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world.' Gibson then asked the deputy, 'Are you a Jew?'

The deputy became alarmed as Gibson's tirade escalated, and called ahead for a sergeant to meet them when they arrived at the station. When they arrived, a sergeant began videotaping Gibson, who noticed the camera and then said, 'What the fuck do you think you're doing?'

A law enforcement source says Gibson then noticed another female sergeant and yelled, 'What do you think you're looking at, sugar tits?'

We're told Gibson took two blood alcohol tests, which were videotaped, and continued saying how 'fucked' he was and how he was going to 'fuck' Deputy Mee."

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 04:33 AM

It just goes to show, Barbara Windsor wasn't 100% right when she said, 'We all want to fuck talent.....'

Unless the policewoman succumbed to his charms....

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 04:40 AM

Ah... but you have to find the talent first.....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 08:21 AM

Hmmmmmmmm???

Could Mad Mel also be Gay Mel???... Not that I could care one way or another but Mad Mel certainly did make several references to havin' sex with the vary much male officer who made the arrest...

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 11:49 AM

Hey Mel! In Vino Veritas!! In Vino Veritas!!

I have made more than 6 editorial paintings regarding Mel Gibson's antisemitism, father, films, hypocrisy etc. They are among my funniest works.

The 4 pages of the police report that quotes Gibson's remarks and attempted escape was deleted by orders of the Captain of the Malibu police department. There are unofficial allegations that the decision to remove the Deputy's record of the event was based on the fact that the remarks were too inflammatory to release in light of the current war in Lebanon.

In other words The Malibu police dept. decided that the threat Mel posed to National security over a simple drunk driver incident was worthy of a cover up.

If Mel is indeed a threat to National Security I suggest Homeland Security weigh in on this matter.

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: GUEST,maryrrf
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 12:21 PM

Maybe this means they'll take down that horrible statue of Mel Gibson at the Wallace Monument in Stirling. I've always felt that was so inappropriate.

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 12:33 PM

I'm pretty certain, though not absolutely sure, that being drunk is not really a legitimate excuse for being a sexist, anti-Semitic jerk.

After all, there are millions of people drunk at any given time in the world, many of whom are alcoholics. Many who are, like Mad Mel of Malibu, very mean drunks.

However, you don't often hear of them going off on anti-Semitic tirades. Though the sexist tirade against women by drunk men is, I'm guessing, pretty standard.

Just a thought.

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: robomatic
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 01:23 PM

Mel featured in an earlier episode of the Simpsons where with Homer's help he shot a re-make of "Mr Smith Goes To Washington" complete with Congressional blood bath ending. But his variance from Roman Catholic doctrine make me think of Homer's flirtation with the Faith:

"Once you go Vatican, you can't go back again!"

from the episode where Homer and Bart consider Catholicism:
The Father the Son and the Holy Guest Star

Homer (after finishing confession): Woo-hoo, I'm clean! In your face, Lord!
Sean: Not yet, Mr. Simpson. I can only absolve you if you're a Catholic.
Homer: Uh-huh. And how do I join? Do I wail on some Unitarians?
Sean: Well, it's a little harder than that. It starts with looking deep inside yourself. (Homer groans) But it ends with bread and wine.
Homer: Woo-hoo!

Near the end Bart gives the message:

Bart: Don't you get it? It's all Christianity, people! The little, stupid differences are nothing next to the big stupid similarities!

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: Charley Noble
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 02:14 PM

People who direct major films which try to re-define religious values should, in my humble opinion, be held to a higher standard of personal conduct than the rest of us poor mortals.

It's a good thing that so much of Gibson's outburst was captured on vidio. Otherwise, he'd still be in denial and the high sheriff would be sued for blasphemy.

Alas, I doubt if this experience will alter Gibson's long-held philosophical views but he may hire a stretch limo and a chauffeur the next time he wants to hang one on.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 02:32 PM

I'm also convinced this won't kill his film career. But it will further isolate him in Hollywood than he already is.

He personally bankrolled his last two films (Passion and Apocalypto), some believe because his increasingly public religious preaching and posturing made him impossible to work with, unless you were perceived by the Mad Mel to be his ideological twin.

His production company, Icon Films, dumped the Bush whacking Michael Moore movie, after being pressured by the Bush White House to do so (which is how/why Harvey Weinstein became involved in the distribution wars over it, just before walking out on Disney).

Now, there are a lot of conservative, John Wayne/Ronald Reagan Republicans in Hollywood. Even radical leftist Tim Robbins is as disparaging of Hollywood liberal Democrats like Babs, et al when he says:

"Hollywood is full of closet Republicans, and also you're sometimes not sure who your friends are. When the whole Bull Durham (1988) controversy happened there were three people who came very vociferously to our support, all either very conservative Democrats or Republicans - Clint Eastwood, Kevin Costner and Jack Valenti. And how many liberals? I didn't see any. So I am not one that makes a judgment on someone because they are Republican. I know enough Republicans that are decent people, they love their families, we might have differences of opinion but we can find common ground."

That doesn't seem to be the case w/Mad Mel. You are either a Mad Mel True Believer, or you don't work for him.

I think this is a case where Mad Mel has isolated himself, and sees himself as something of a romanticized tormented Hamlet thespian (remember, he bankrolled himself in that one too). That he is delusional, I have no doubt. Mentally ill, probably, more than an alcoholic.

The man obviously is sick and perverted, but because he feeds off the Hollywood machine that created him, he just can't see the forest for the trees (much less the speedometer for the tequila bottles) at this point. He totally lost the plot, IMO, somewhere during his "Braveheart" phase. Living proof of a man who actually believes he is the characters he portrays, and his own publicity machine.

I don't think you will see too many big name stars (directors, writers, or actors) lining up to work in a Mel Gibson film any time soon. Sure, he has box office clout, but that may not be enough to save the perv from himself.

But there isn't much you can do with mentally ill people like him, when they are surrounded by people making money hand over fist off them. Which is the case here. If ever there were a need for someone to intervene and have someone committed, it would be here. But his family and handlers are more likely to just slap him into rehab, and hope he doesn't build anymore Malibu churches in the image of Mad Mel.

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 02:38 PM

Surely this is a warning about the dangers of our insane 'celebrity culture'?

Just because some weirdo becomes famous for starring in films/movies does not mean that he is some sort of demi-god. His pronouncements are of no more acount than any other weirdo's.

Someone who makes a whole film depicting a person being brutally tortured to death is definitely a weirdo in my book - and a dangerous one to boot!

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 03:05 PM

I think he is bi-polar. The booze can disguise that for a long time. Lots of people are able to cover up their bi-polar problems for decades, just by using drugs or religion to mask the illness.

Don't forget, we are a society that values hyper-manic behavior, so long as it is done in the name of "work".

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 03:10 PM

"I think he is bi-polar"

Could be that too....

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 03:30 PM

Shimrod makes a good point....the culture of Celebrity is what makes todays heroes, for the unwashed masses. They are important, because they are FAMOUS, whether there be any talent involved at all (I mean talent is not necessary, simply because they are KNOWN is what makes them seem important in those shallow peoples eyes).

Football players (or replace with whatever other sporting 'heroes' best fit) are lauded regardless, & not in the same way they always have been.... The likes of Don Bradman, or Babe Ruth, Tom Finney, etc, etc, were held in such high esteem because of their skills, not because they were a 'bigger name' than anyone else you might compare them to.

Ok, it got a little silly with the hysterical adulation (or so it seemed) of Rudolf Valentino, or someone like that...perhaps Chaplin would be a better example from vaguely that same era. They had a hold on the popular consciousness because they were known by many millions because they were successful at entertaining millions.

These days however, we get the likes of Michael Jackson not getting an even-handed trial because of media bloody hype! His fans not wanting to believe him capable of wrongdoing (or whats worse, maybe being so 'enamoured' of his fame & status that they feel he should be considered above the law). Then the other side of people who werent fans, wanting him to be brought down because he didnt deserve to be so famous & successful... thats how it seemed to me anyway - seemed to have very little to do whether he was guilty or not, & to what degree.

Much the same was seen with OJ Simpson too, I felt.

In Hull, its not unusual to see TV Presenters from the BBC Local studios....& its laughable to see the people gasping, pointing, seemingly in bloody AWE of somebody who is so wonderful as to be seen on the shiny magic box in the corner....or as if they didnt really 'tread the earth' like mortals.

I HAVE seen it occasionally at Festivals...people gazing in awe at Martin Carthy (it most have been these gawkers 1st Festival, I think...) & on another occasion, just some curious locals 'nebbing' round the Craft Fair/Trade Stands, mouths agape at Mike Harding.

Yeah, its bloody laughable, but where will it all end? If FAME is the only criteria, how would Adolf Hitler fare these days?

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: gnu
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 03:58 PM

Good thing he made a PILE of money off those movies... he's gonna need it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 04:07 PM

Are a drunk man's words a sober man's thoughts, as the old proverb teaches?

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 04:43 PM

And now for some comic relief:

The first round of media analysis of How Mel Gibson's Anti-Semitic Tirade Will Affect His Career has arrived, with nearly everyone agreeing that Gibson's capping of his DUI arrest by accusing the "fucking Jews" of being "responsible for all the wars in the world" could possibly have some sort of undetermined negative impact on his future ability to make movies, or on the box office prospects of Apocalypto, his upcoming, Mayan-language adventure flick whose dialogue must now be scoured for hate speech cleverly masked by the Yucatec dialect. (Zero Wolf: "The tribal elders have selected you for human sacrifice. Please report to the altar atop the sacred pyramid in one hour to accept your fate." Jaguar Paw: "You go tell those fucking Jews to kiss my ass. I own this fucking jungle, sugar tits.")

Subject: RE: BS: The Passion of Mel Gibson...
From: Slag
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 06:26 PM

To have celebrity would be about the last thing on my wish list. How unfortunate that some depend on it for their bread and butter. If you remove the question of celebrity from the story you get a much clearer picture of the problem. Forget your own prejudices about Mr. Gibson and look at the fact that he is an alcoholic. Anyone who has had a family member or, God forbid, themselves have been/are an alcoholic recognizes the self-destructive and abysmally embarrassing behavior. My sympathies go out to anyone who suffers this blight. It was one of the things, if not THE thing, that inspired Prohibition. It is a fact that a certain per centage of the population will become addicted to alcohol if they ever take a drink. It is a powerful grip that never goes away and can only be defeated by total abstinence.

That stupid behavior follows is a given. People this deep under the influence say things that are 180 degrees from their conscious beliefs. They can and do physically attack loved ones, assualt police officers, drive wantonly, recklessly, walk about in public naked, commit murder. Name it. It's been done. Since Man discovered alcohol society has attempted to deal with the problem.

And a word about the prejudices which we have ALL grown up with. We've heard them in our earliest experiences. We hear it from our own family members, other kids at school and in our society and culture. There are racial and ethnic prejudices. There are economic and intellectual prjudices. I think in this day and age we are pretty sensitized to prejudice but they are still there, floating around in our subconcious, if no where else. And they pop out at the worst times. Just ask some of our politicians. Emily Dickenson said "The soul selects it's own society, Then shuts the door." and this is true for the good or the bad. We all have our own criteria for association. No one is a friend to everyone nor is anyone the enemy of everyone (with qualification, of course). I especially feel for folks who grew up in the South where, in living memory, racism was an accepted way of life. The many who have come to the enlightenment that black people are people too and are in equal standing before the law and before God, make a concious effort to refrain from hurting someone with a unintended remark or some slip of the lip. I feel sorry for people of color who grow up being taught to hate white people. And I can't understand why or how the Jewish people are considered to be the blame of so much evil. And yet we hear it and like hearing filthy language at an early age it finds a place in our minds and it can come out in moments of stress, pain, sickness as well as self induced impairment.

I am reminded when certain religious leaders sought to entrap Christ when they presented to Him a woman taken in adultry. He said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Mr. Gibson's celebrity only clouds the issue. Whether you agree with his politics or his religious point of view is a matter for discussion elsewhere and on their own merits. He is a man afflicted with alcoholism and he will suffer all that may entail for the rest of his life. However his addiction does NOT excuse or even mitigate his behavior. For that he must be responsible. But he has a difficult life-problem that many of us will thankfully never fully understand. He too is a human being and a day may come in your own life when you need someone to care for you aside from your foibles and follies.