BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK

Subject: BS: Cycling MUST be made iilegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 18 Aug 24 - 06:14 PM

Just had a harrowing lift home from WLTUC tonight. When the person giving me a lift turned right she came within inches of colliding with three cyclists without lights who jumped a red light. It was down to the skill of the driver that this didn't turn into a major tragedy.

If cyclists are returned to their families in a body bag, then that is not a problem. what is a problem is:

9a) it still does damage to cars.
(b) If a collision happened, then my journey home would have been delayed due to the police wanting to take statements,
(c) Any vehicles at the junction would also been held up particularly as all the roads are also bus routes.

Until the cycling community gets its act together, cycling must be made ilegal. If they dn;t like it, then don't blame society, just blame the handful of idiot cyclists who have stuffed things up for them.

I woud accpet a few ther altrnatives:

24 hour policing at every set f traffic lights in the UK

Flood lighting at every set of traffic lights - if that leads to intolerable light pollution for people living in the vicinity, all they need to do is move house.

The millions/billions this would cost of course would be of no cost to tax payers but a charge levied (light vehicle excise duty) to every cyclist fully recovering the costs, or a surcharge on home food delivery - the worst culprits.

lets see how long it take the cycling mafia to crawl out of the woodwork whinging that they would be hard done by.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 03:17 AM

Somebody pass me the popcorn… ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 03:23 AM

Bit extreme, SPB. As a responsible cyclist for more than 60 years (well, OK, at 10 I may not have been too responsible) it is my duty to point out that over 99% of road deaths and serious injuries are caused by drivers and an average of 5 people a day are killed on our roads. Note also that, while cyclists are often killed and injured by drivers, I have never heard of a driver being killed by a cyclist. Yes, OK, I agree that irresponsible cyclists (I call them "lycra warriors") are a danger, they are more at risk of injuring or killing themselves than of harming someone else. Private cars being banned makes much more sense on many levels :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Rain Dog
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 03:49 AM

"If they dn;t like it, then don't blame society, just blame the handful of idiot cyclists who have stuffed things up for them."

The same point could be made against car drivers, motor cyclists and pedestrians. The idiot minority have a lot to answer for.

How would I get to the pub? Pogo stick? Space hopper? The journey back might well be a bit more difficult.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 05:13 AM

codswallop

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 05:19 AM

cycling is good exercise and good for the health[unless you get run over ,by a car jumping a traffic light]
SPB, You encountered a particular example of idiocy , you cannot generalse from the particular.
we understand and appreciate your leniency, not wanting to put the offenders in the stocks or have them horse whipped, you are a kind man and priti patel would probably love to do the whipping at your command

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 05:29 AM

One, two, three, four, five
Once I caught a fish alive


DC

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 05:37 AM

I've a better idea SPB, why not set up Machine-Gun nests on Street corners and shoot the buggers!!

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 05:49 AM

:-D

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 06:58 AM

Since I gave up cycling to work (twelve-to-fifteen miles twice a day was Not On), I've noticed that Herself, whenever we're in the car, has become a born-again cycle hater. In particular, two or more lycra louts, dawdling line abreast in full gossip mode, has her reaching for the swear box before she's changed down to first gear.

I blame the road layout clowns, seem to think that a line of paint in an already-narrow road is a barrier to ingress of cars.* But that's cheaper than constructing a separate cycle track, which the lycra louts tend to ignore anyway, as those that exist are often rim-bollockingly lumpy.

* A subsidiary trick is to wait until an interesting junction where one really could use some help, then the track disappears: "You're on your own, sunshine."

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 07:19 AM

I just think a little tolerance and care on both sides is necessary. There are bad cyclists and bad vehicle drivers ( including drunken ones )

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 10:37 AM

Would making cycling illegal have the desired effect?

Except for a few approved trials, it is illegal to ride an electric scooter on public roads or in other public spaces in the UK but there are plenty whizzing around at great speed both amongst traffic and in pedestrian areas. Not many riders seem to wear any safety gear.

There are already laws in place covering the use of cycles. What is required is that the existing law is properly enforced.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 11:42 AM

the prisons are full and they are releasing convicted criminals, they are hardly going to make cycling illegal sand enforce the law, and send cyclists to prison for cycling

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 12:03 PM

Get off my lawn!

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 12:10 PM

Enforcing the law doesn't have to result in a prison sentence. Fines or confiscation of cycles would suffice.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 01:01 PM

Dunno about where you are but the rules of the road don't seem to be applied to anyone round Bradford!

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 01:15 PM

There is no cycling community just as there is no motoring or pedestrian community. One cyclist is not responsible for another's behaviour.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 02:19 PM

"24 hour policing at every set of traffic lights in the UK"
you have a great sense of humour

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 02:34 PM

We have boy racers driving their cars at speed up and down our road daily. It's the only road nearby without speed humps and without a 20mph limit. What's especially annoying is that they seem to tune their engines to be very noisy.Are these grounds enough to ban private cars? Or make them solely responsible for funding the NHS?

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 03:00 PM

You don't seem to have the same proliferation of takeway delivery drivers that we have in Acton, a danger to themselves other road users and pedestrians. I can;t remember the last time as saw an electric bike rider having to dodge out of the way of a pedestrians walking behind them at high speed. A blanket ban would be far easier to implement than trying to root out the individual cyclists who are a danger. Alternatively, local authoriotes could be tasked with operting traffic lights manually and not turn pedstrian lights, and the vehivle lights for the other directions green until they are certain that cyclists are going to stop at the red lights. Alternatively having football stadium intensity fllod lights at and approaching traffic lights would compensate for cyclists not bothering with lights.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: DaveRo
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 04:06 PM

Delivery riders are exploited by their (non-)employers: paid a pittance, fined if they take too long, and sacked if customers complain their pizza is cold. If the delivery riders were employees, and their employers had a financial incentive to ensure they rode safely and obeyed traffic regulations, then you might see a change.

Until then, be a bit understanding, and drive super-carefully in the evening. If you have home food deliveries yourself, tip them well. And if you're selecting a restaurant, avoid ones which do deliveries because they'll fulfill the take-away orders before serving you!

Unrelated, but here in rural Kent I've noticed that drivers have become more careful when passing cyclists and less likely to hoot when I wait to overtake. Motorists understand the effect of potholes to a cyclist!

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 04:24 PM

You will be joining Reform next SPB. Just changing three words in your rant gives us one of their speeches

"Until the Islam community gets its act together, Islam must be made ilegal. If they dn;t like it, then don't blame society, just blame the handful of idiot Muslims who have stuffed things up for them."

Not nice is it?

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 05:26 PM

SPB sorry this is totally ridiculous, you are suggesting 24 hour police at traffic lights , so police presence is diverted from rioters, criminals,murderers etc for in your opinion the much more serious 3 cyclists who was responsible for you having a harrowing lift home from WLTUC.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Helen
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 07:18 PM

I agree, Dick. Totally ridiculous.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 07:22 PM

I've been hit by a car while on my bicycle and have been hit by a bike while in my car and I much prefer the former. I say ban automobiles.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 07:24 PM

That should read "I much prefer the latter." The meds are kicking in.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Helen
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 08:19 PM

Scrambled your brain, eh gilly?

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 08:36 PM

Like a Western Omelet.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 02:39 AM

Making cycling illegal would work as well as it does with e-scooters (which are already subject to the same licence/insurance rules as motor vehicles, but do you know of any E-scooter riders who have a licence and insurance) - that is, not at all.

And the suggestion that ‘all cyclists are bad guys’ is as unrealistic as the idea touted around by cynophobes that ‘no dog-owners ever picks up their dog’s shit’. Neither are even close to being true.

Sorry, SPB, I usually agree with you, but this is a barmy idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 03:33 AM

i think he might be having a joke with us, it certainly gave me a good laugh

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 05:21 AM

I expect Plaistow in London has just as many delivery riders as Acton. Yes, they are a bloody nuisance and ignore the rules of the road but they haven't caused any deaths so far as I know.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 06:09 AM

I am convinced that no-one read the original post properly. Nowhere did I mention prison sentences.

Also in response to be taking additional care while driving, my first sentence makes it clear that I was boing given a lift home, but I admit I failed to mention that I was sitting on the back seat in case anyone is assuming it is a dual control vehicle. Also now that I have free use of public transport in London and next year free bus travel across the UK, I have no interest in incurring the expense of owning a motor vehicle.

The driver was not drunk, she drank a glass of apple juice and a cup of black coffee.

The poor wages of delivery cyclists is irrelevant, "I am not paid enough to obey the law" would not be a defense in court.

Those who read my comments in other posts would know that cyclists riding on pavements with no due care to the safety of pedestrians is a bug bear on mine and will always be until the cycling community gets its act together.

When I posted this, I was still shaken by the near miss and the dangerous behaviour of three cyclists; seeing two more jump the next set of red lights was the camel breaker fortunately we were well behind them so it didn't directly affect us- it was not a case of the lights had just changed, they were red well before the cyclist got to them,and the car I was in hadn't just started turning, but was well into the manoeuvre.

When I was at junior school, those who had a bike did cycling proficiency, though I didn't start cycling until I was 16 and missed out on that, I was pretty well versed with the highway code already, and I continued with the same bike for more than 20 years until one of the pedals fell off!

Anyway, bad cycling is a plague where I live and is now seems to be the norm, thus my subject was a deliberate 'Reductio Ad Absurdum' as where the extreme alternatives offered is cyclists want to have everything their own way. Just to address the balance I did suggest other Reductio Ad Absurdum alternatives.

I do take offence to the straw man argument of this being compared with right wing extremist narrative. The message is about johnson-style exceptionalism. "I have a bike, so I will do what I want, and s***w the rest of you." Wanting cyclist to adopt societal norms and show consideration to others can not possibly be compared with anti-Islamist rhetoric.

So to end on a philosophical note, is the Social Contract such that if we wish to live in a society where cycling is encouraged or tolerated then non-cyclists have a duty to accept the risks of bad and inconsiderate cycling and personally take responsibility for accommodating their behaviours?

Also readers may want to reflect that is events had panned out differently -if the car was two foot further forward - and ended up in a tragedy, and it had been one of their own families ending up in a morgue, would they have the same tolerance of the standards of cycling?

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 06:34 AM

SPB - No straw man. You state quite clearly that the actions of a minority should result in all cyclists being banned off the road. My comparison with the same argument about Muslims was to highlight how ludicrous that is.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 06:54 AM

I repeat, there is no cycling community.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 07:06 AM

On that basis the same arguments should have been made against the restrictions of ownership of firearms in the UK following the actions of a single person: Thomas Hamilton.

You seem to be conflating humans rights (the right to follow and practice one's faith, right to safety and asylum) which are universal, and liberties which are based on what is acceptable as part of the right to be part of a society. Many liberties have been withdrawn e.g. owning slaves, foxhunting with dogs, smoking in public places, other liberties have been removed due to rights taking precedence: eg, employment discrimination.

Cycling is not a right, it is a liberty and cannot be conflated with removing ones right to ones faith and as such society reserves the right to deny liberties if it is for the grater good of society. The only argument is whether removing a liberty is fair or unfair, and that is down to (a) our elected parliaments to decide and (b) whether the electorate would vote for a parliament that is committed to making that decision.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 07:27 AM

Cycling is done by choice.

Believing in your own particulat invisible friend is a choice.

There is no difference. Apart from Cycling has killed far fewer people than religion.

I am not conflating anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 08:05 AM

Thomas Hamilton killec 16 children and a teacher with a gun. I don't recall anyone doing anything similar with a bike.

What this seems to boil down to, SPB, is a poor choice of words. We seem to agree on many things, including politics and the fact that some cyclists are idiots. I admire your passion when it comes to politics but in this case you have spoiled your case by letting a heartfelt but ridiculous argument affect your credibility.

There is no logic whatdover in saying that cycling MUST (your caps) be made illegal. Come up with something sensible instead. I can start you off with making sure that bikes have a visible registration mark, like cars, so that the owner can be traced when caught breaking the law on camera.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 08:20 AM

UDHR: Article 18: Everyone has the freedom to think or believe what they want, including the right to religious belief. We have the right to change our beliefs or religion at any time, and the right to publicly or privately practise our chosen religion, alone or with others.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 08:45 AM

Yes, everyone does have the right to believe what they want. They do not have the right to inflict that belief on others or ban beliefs that do not concur with theirs.

My religion is cycling. All hail the great cog in the sky.

See, I can be just as daft as you when I put my mind to it :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 09:23 AM

article 18 protects us from having religious (beliefs) imposed on us.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 09:27 AM

anyway I've had my rant on Sunday, and this could become a very long thread on rights vs liberties and social contract which might be an interesting subject for a more philosophical discussion, shall we jest agree that this thread should just now be laid to rest?

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 09:47 AM

SPB: Also now that I have free use of public transport in London and next year free bus travel across the UK,

Where do you get that 'free use'?
The pass for pensioners living in England only gives free travel on buses in England. Similarly the Welsh pass only applies to Wales.
You may be a little disappointed when you get your pass (assuming that it is age related)

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 09:55 AM

SPB you cannot use your free bus pass anywhere but england take heed of the words of Tebbitt YOU MAY need to get on your bike when you want to go to Wales.OR Scotland or northern ireland

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 09:59 AM

No! I demand my right to worship the great Cog by wearing lycra and riding two abreast. Your petty red light rules infringe on my right to practice my religion as I see fit :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 11:57 AM

ok England then.   I am not very likely to go on a day trip to Scotland or Wales anyway. At the moment I am restricted to the TFL network and mainline trains within the TFL boundary zones as I only have a 60+ Oyster, but even that is enough for me not to need to own a car in London.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Rain Dog
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 11:59 AM

Four wheels good, 2 wheels baaaaaaaad?

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 11:59 AM

In the mean time, Dave, do not let me keep you from your congregational church of "Bicycle Repair Man"

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 12:01 PM

If god had meant us to ride/drive he would not have given us feet and bus passes.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 12:03 PM

can I go now?

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 12:46 PM

On yer bike!

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 01:04 PM

> he would not have given us feet

Once upon a time, in the bar at Uni, one of the group showed us his new hand-stitched sandals, which used old car-tyre tread for sole and heel because of its hard-wearing properties. Then someone noted there was less than 3mm of tread, which would make it illegal for him to cross the road. Discussion ensued on whether he might get arrested for being drunk in charge of feet, and banned from walking for three months.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Helen
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 07:42 PM

Is this topic an annual event for you SPB?

BS: Bleeping Cyclist

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 08:24 PM

If we put a bounty on cyclists Remember ! Its not cyclists that kill.
Its responsible members of the community armed with light machine guns, they would put a stop to all this.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Aug 24 - 03:54 AM

Yes but first before they kill them they have to sing Lord Randall whilst playing a nose flute

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 21 Aug 24 - 06:42 AM

Just a coincidence, Halen, it seems that proverbial happens in August!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Helen
Date: 21 Aug 24 - 01:10 PM

SPB said, "Just a coincidence, Halen, it seems that proverbial happens in August!!!"

I guess if I owned a Van I would Go Ahead And Jump.

The questions are, what is in this discussion which wasn't covered in the few weeks of discussion in the last thread, and wouldn't the discussion in this thread logically belong in the last one?

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Aug 24 - 04:32 PM

Personally I'd make driving illegal. Life is better when it's lived in the open, not shut inside cars.

Just had a harrowing lift home from WLTUC tonight. When the person giving me a lift turned right she came within inches of colliding with three cyclists without lights who jumped a red light. It was down to the skill of the driver that this didn't turn into a major tragedy.

This doesn't sound like good driving to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Aug 24 - 04:53 PM

I agree .

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Aug 24 - 06:54 PM

Yep. Ban private cars - best option all round. Buses to and from every street every 15 minutes. Taxis for those in a hurry. Good intercity trains. I'd give up my car tomorrow if it happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Helen
Date: 21 Aug 24 - 07:03 PM

So no-one got my Van Halen joke?

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: gillymor
Date: 21 Aug 24 - 07:07 PM

Hey, I said that a couple of days ago but it didn't get any traction :-).
Thompson makes a good point, I can't comment on the driving skills of the person in the OP but too many drivers around here don't have much respect for cyclists and consequently we have a fair amount of injury and death.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: gillymor
Date: 21 Aug 24 - 07:12 PM

uh...that's "injury and death" inflicted on cyclists by motorists.

I just saw your joke, Helen. You rock! (I think that's what the kids say)

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Helen
Date: 21 Aug 24 - 08:21 PM

Thanks gillymor. Either that or I'm fully sick - whatever that really means. :-D

I think car drivers are more of a problem than cyclists, most of the time. Just look at the dashcam video sites for some hairy/scary examples. I have footage from last week of some dangerous driving which I could upload and it is truly hair-raising.

I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bathwater. Cycling is healthy (assuming the air pollution from nearby vehicles isn't too much for the rider to breathe), and it is good for the climate. The majority of cyclists I have seen on the roads are good road-citizens, but a small minority do stupid things. If drivers and cyclists interact peacefully and cooperatively, all's good with the world. There is more danger for cyclists from cars than the other way around.

I saw the aftermath of one fatal accident where a cyclist died. The news report said that he had been riding in the cycle lane, in the dark before sunrise on a major non-metropolitan road with a speed limit of 80 kph (50 mph). That particular piece of road does not have a good level of street lighting. He was doing the right thing - apart from riding in the dark - but a piece of wood had been possibly thrown off the back of a truck and it was in the middle of the cycle lane, perpendicular to the cyclist's direction of travel. It was not visible to the cyclist in the dark and his front wheel pitched forward, he landed face first on the tarred road and apparently died immediately.

Personally, I would not be riding at speed in the dark, with minimal street lighting on a major road with high speed levels. Those type of MAMILS are an endangered species, but the majority seem to do okay.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Aug 24 - 01:37 AM

There are good cyclists and there are bad cyclists, just as there are good drivers and there are bad drivers. I believe that, in the cases of both cyclists and drivers, the good dramatically outnumber the bad. But sadly, it’s the results of the behaviour of the bad in both categories that are most easily observed and therefore draw the most attention.

My personal grouse concerns those f***in’ e-scooters which are used un-licensed, un-insured, and therefore illegally - not to mention frequently recklessly - on our urban roads and pavements. I heard on the BBC News recently that in the most recent year for which records are available, e-scooters were involved in over 1,300 reported accidents which resulted in 9 deaths. If anything needs ‘banning’, it’s those hateful things.

But, without adequate policing, I don’t see the behaviours of bad drivers, bad cyclists, or bad e-scooterists changing any time soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Aug 24 - 01:40 AM

For the ‘Murricans in our midst, ‘pavement’ (UK) = ‘sidewalk’ (US). ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Aug 24 - 02:32 AM

I know SPB, I dont think he has passed a driving test,
so I reserve judgement on his judgement of the skill of the driver in this case, it is possible that these cyclists were in the car drivers blind spot, and that the driver did not check over the right shoulder, before turning right

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Rain Dog
Date: 22 Aug 24 - 03:06 AM

It does help if you read what has been posted.

"When the person giving me a lift turned right she came within inches of colliding with three cyclists without lights who jumped a red light."

The phrase "three cyclists without lights who jumped a red light" does stand out.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Aug 24 - 03:24 AM

I have read what has been posted, presumably the car also jumped a red light

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Aug 24 - 03:28 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman - PM
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 05:19 AM

cycling is good exercise and good for the health[unless you get run over ,by a car jumping a traffic light]

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Aug 24 - 03:37 AM

”When the person giving me a lift turned right she came within inches of colliding with three cyclists without lights who jumped a red light."

“I have read what has been posted, presumably the car also jumped a red light”

There are other assumptions which can be made…

It’s just as likely, the car driver was turning right on a green right-turn filter-light, and the cyclists were on the other side of the road and should have been held by the red light on their side, which they recklessly decided to crash.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Helen
Date: 22 Aug 24 - 03:41 AM

BWM, I suspect that is the most likely scenario. If the cyclists jumped a red light then the car driver probably had a green light, and therefore had right of way.

If you all want to have some heart attacks in your comfy chairs, watch those dashcam videos because jumping red lights is really common and very dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Aug 24 - 04:00 AM

yes we do not know, but it is still possible that the car driver did not check her blind spot .
SPB is as far as i know, not a qualified driver so whether he was looking out to see her blind spot we do not know.. on the information given by SPB , it would be ridiculous to ban cyclists

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 22 Aug 24 - 04:52 AM

I suspect that is the most likely scenario.

-------------------- " --------------------

.... but it is still possible that ....

Who needs evidence?

I agree with The Sandman's post of 20 Aug 24 - 03:33 AM. The OP was most likely just yanking a chain and will be highly amused as the endless discussion continues.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Aug 24 - 05:16 AM

I think you might be right, Doug, but it makes for an interesting discussion, and gives us all a rest from talking about T***p!

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Helen
Date: 22 Aug 24 - 05:17 AM

Yes Doug, you are probably right.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Aug 24 - 11:54 AM

The nose flute seems a bit excessive. the heavy hand of government.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Aug 24 - 03:08 AM

I don't think SPB was "yanking the chain". He does not seem to be a troll. I think, as I said before, he was just wound up about it and made a very poor argument.

Can you enlighten us please SPB-cooperaror?

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Aug 24 - 03:23 AM

perhaps singing shanties should be made illegal in the UK,
SPB was a shanty singer, so perhaps he need to feel the effects of favourite pastimes being banned

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Aug 24 - 11:41 AM

So, which is it SPB? Winding people up or a genuine hatred of cyclists?

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 25 Aug 24 - 05:51 PM

Neither, just three idiot cyclists getting under my skin last week and feeling stressed out by what happened whe I got home.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 25 Aug 24 - 05:54 PM

Tonight's rant - someone locally deciding that quart to eleven at night is a good time for home fireworks. If I was a pet owner I would probably be spitting blood.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Aug 24 - 06:11 PM

Fairy nuff

So you were neither "yanking anyones chain" nor really suggesting that "Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK"?

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Thompson
Date: 27 Aug 24 - 02:28 AM

Helen, you actually get less fumey air when you're cycling than you do in a car - in a car, the grille sucks in the fumes that hang at car level and generously distributes them inside the vehicle. So all those parents driving their children to school are poisoning them; which is unsurprising given that car fumes are credited with 4 million new child asthma cases per year.
My point on the driver's behaviour is simply that you're supposed to approach a junction at correct speed and with caution.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Aug 24 - 04:19 AM

"My point on the driver's behaviour is simply that you're supposed to approach a junction at correct speed and with caution"quote
good point, caution includes checking mirrors and blind spot. Spb has not passed a driving test so is hardly in a position to make a judgement on car drivers skill

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Helen
Date: 27 Aug 24 - 05:08 AM

Thanks Thompson, I didn't realise that about the fumes from the car.

I read the first few words of your post and thought you were telling me I am getting less funny, but no you said "Helen, you actually get less fumey..."

A lot of people find me less funny the older I get. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Aug 24 - 08:03 AM

The possibility of driver error. That's what I was referring to.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 27 Aug 24 - 08:06 AM

Again, I have held a full licence since, I think, 1987. I just decided it is now pointless incurring the expense of owning a car in London as I have free use of public transport.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Aug 24 - 08:12 AM

you still have not answered the question from, Dave the Gnome.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Aug 24 - 09:03 AM

It was rhetorical really, Dick. I don't know SPB-cooperator personaly but from my dealings with him here I am pretty sure that he is no troll and does not really want to ban cycling. His post of 25 Aug 24 - 05:51 PM explains that it was a monentary lapse

Neither, just three idiot cyclists getting under my skin last week and feeling stressed out by what happened whe I got home.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Aug 24 - 11:52 AM

yes SPB is a nice guy, unlikely to be trolling

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Aug 24 - 01:32 PM

The "cycling community" won't get its act together. The cyclists in the OP are not community they are just people. Oiks maybe, but not part of any party you mention.

I was buzzed by an e-cyclist without lights, on the footpath, in the dark. Obviously didn't hear him. I had seen him doing wheelies in the street beforehand.

Around that time there was a helicopter ambulance land in the locale to a RTA that looked likely, and I haven't seen the kid - not that he was recognisable in the dark, nor the bike recently. Kids on bikes are a danger to themselves, put them on an E-bike that doesn't need to pedal and............ it didn't.
Yea, Yea illegal in the UK, so maybe the kid just had it confiscated.

Now how ya going to police push bikers who don't care? That kind of policing is retrospective, if you can catch them.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Aug 24 - 03:09 AM

The police force would have to be increased to catch cyclists and catch smokers smoking illegally in pub gardens, would it not be simpler to tax cigarettes more and send offending cyclists to Rwanda , but as an act of kindness allow them to take their bikes

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Thompson
Date: 30 Aug 24 - 11:28 AM

A question for those of you in other European countries, or of course in the UK…
In Ireland, only 'pedelecs' are legal - in other words an ebike which is normally pedalled but has available a boost from an electric motor so that, for instance, when you're attacked by those vicious enemies, the hill and the headwind, you can call on a little electric assistance.
The kind of ebikes where you can just sit there and go wheee and have the bike carry you along - a bike that is essentially a silent motorbike - is illegal. These often have fat wheels, but not always. Sometimes, too, they're cheap folding bikes.
While illegal, the second kind of ebike is seen more and more often on Dublin roads.
Is this the same in other countries where non-pedelec ebikes are illegal?

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Aug 24 - 01:50 PM

Strict rules here in the UK. Pedal assist only. Power limited. Maximum 15.5mph from the motor. I see the occasional one that looks decidedly illegal but not often.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: leeneia
Date: 31 Aug 24 - 12:47 AM

What we need is a law against being stupid. There have always been some stupid people, but now that most parents simply hand their kids (especially boys) an electronic device and let them raise themselves, we are seeing more and more people who do not understand that red lights matter and getting hit by a car really hurts.

In my city people can rent electric scooters. They look like the kind you push with your foot, but they can go at a good clip. Recently we saw a woman about 30 years old riding on our street, minus the required helmet, going fast, with ear phones on and looking at her phone. She was wearing pale clothes to make sure no driver crossing her path would notice her.

My nominee for a Darwin award.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Helen
Date: 31 Aug 24 - 01:20 AM

Aah, the good old Darwin Award!

My nomination: I saw a young man on an electric skateboard (i.e. handsfree, no handlebars) in the middle of the road, near our house, going at an unreasonable speed, looking at his phone, paying no attention to the road. Technically this is a 40 kph (25 mph) residential area but in fact the majority of car drivers around here choose to believe it is 60 or even 80 kph or more (40 to 50 mph) and are a danger to self and others, e.g. the guy on the skateboard.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Thompson
Date: 01 Sep 24 - 06:44 AM

While we're giving out Darwin awards, can we hand a few to the people in charge of 2 tons of industrial machinery (ie their car) who use a phone while at the wheel?

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Sep 24 - 07:07 AM

Being stupid on bikes and skateboards often results in personal injury but being stupid in a car can result in injury to innocent parties. That probably deserves an award of its own!

98...

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: leeneia
Date: 07 Sep 24 - 11:20 PM

I think 15 mph is pretty fast for a person riding on a scooter. Remember the rider has no seatbelt, no steel, between him and the concrete. In my neighborhood, where small houses line narrow streets lined with parked cars, a small figure going 15 can emerge at a cross roads far too soon for safety.

One day the DH and I very nearly collided with a Mini-Cooper hidden by a big pick-up truck. At the last minute I spied a winking between two cars and hollered "Stop! stop!" If a Mini-Cooper produces nothing but a winking sensation, imagine how little a scooter produces.
---------
I agree 100% with Dave and Thompson's remarks about cars and phones.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Sep 24 - 01:36 AM

Accidents have also been caused by people changing cds or cassettes while driving
.I am amazed at the amount of professional drivers answering mobiles whilst driving

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Sep 24 - 07:13 PM

I saw a candidate for the Darwin last week. I was driving down a back road when a young girl came toward me on a skate board being towed by two small dogs on leashes. As I slowed down one dog came toward me barking while the other took a right turn into the swale by the side of the road causing the kid to pitch off her skateboard head first into the grassy swale. She was okay and probably shouldn't be considered for the award given her youth.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Helen
Date: 08 Sep 24 - 09:46 PM

I'm sure she'll have more time to prepare for her Darwin award.

I saw a couple of girls on skateboards near my home. One of them stacked it, looked like she had seriously hurt her ankle and was sitting on the side of the road crying in pain. I grabbed my keys and phone and I was just about to go over and do the first aid check when her mother drove up, and without a word, pulled her up to limp painfully to the car and definitely did not do a first aid check before she drove off. Maybe the mother should get the Darwin education award because she obviously was preparing her daughter to be awarded it in the future.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Sep 24 - 02:37 AM

and then there was the actress Gillian Tayforth who had sex with her partner whilst he was driving

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Sep 24 - 03:25 AM

did you ever hear tell of Rupert Gray he died defending his right of way, he was right dead right all the way but he was dead all right at the end of the day

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 09 Sep 24 - 04:54 AM

and then there was the actress Gillian Tayforth who had sex with her partner whilst he was driving

That's a case of a story getting better for the re-telling. The Sun (spit) alleged that she had performed a sex act on her partner on a motorway slip road - not while he was driving. Taking that exaggeration with the preposterous title of this thread, should we say: 'Sex MUST be banned in the UK'.

Why are we still discussing this nonsense?

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Sep 24 - 08:42 AM

the jury found her guilty,
why are we discussing this nonsense ,because presumably you want tto do so, you are not forced to discuss anything

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Sep 24 - 11:13 AM

For anyone too young to remember this, and planning to research the details, the 'ladies' name is 'Gillian Taylforth'. Searches work better using the correct details.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Sep 24 - 02:50 PM

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/biking-and-sex-avoid-the-vicious-cycle-201209145290
cycling and sex
Correct nigel paraond wins a crackerjack pencil... Gillian Taylforth, nicknamed Gillian Blowforth

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Sep 24 - 04:37 AM

having sex on a motorway slip road in a parked car, is a distraction for other car users and cyclists

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Sep 24 - 02:25 PM

Cyclists shouldn't be on motorway slip roads.
There again, they shouldn't be on pavements either ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Sep 24 - 02:40 PM

people should not be indulging in sex on motorway slip roads

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Helen
Date: 10 Sep 24 - 04:49 PM

This discussion seems to be over and done.

Dick, maybe you could start a new thread about sex and the motorways, and see who else is interested in discussing it here at Mudcat, a folk and blues music site.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Sep 24 - 02:05 PM

This is the non music section.Driving a car requires attention at all times and does not need any kind of distraction,
so does cycling. yes the thread is finished, good night

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Sep 24 - 12:03 PM

A cyclist who knocked over a yoga teacher after she stepped into the road while staring at her mobile phone has been handed a £60,000 court bill.
Robert Hazeldean collided with City worker Gemma Brushett as she crossed the road near London Bridge, knocking the 28-year-old unconscious and leaving her with damage to her front teeth and facial scars.
While Ms Brushett sued for damages over the July 2015 crash, Mr Hazeldean – who was also knocked out and hurt - did not launch his own legal claim.
A court heard Ms Brushett was looking at her mobile phone when she stepped into the road, noticing Mr Hazeldean at the last minute as he shouted and sounded a horn.
However she dodged backwards into the same place that the cyclist was swerving to try to avoid a collision.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 15 Sep 24 - 05:59 PM

All these issues apply to the principle of due care and attention. Going back to the original post- this was about a near miss. if the cyclist had jumped the red light a few seconds later the consequences could have be a lot worse than my lift having to brake hard to avoid a collision - even then I found the stupidity (arrogance) of the cyclists stressful ass a passenger and i was hken as to how much of a near miss this was.

As fat as I am concerned,, pedestrians owe no due care and attention to cyclists illegal cycling at speed on the pavement, but they do crossing the road and making sure it is safe to cross - but also at night the duty of care reverts back to ensuring that they are visible or in other words LIGHTS.

Going back to the post heading - it is a referral to the potential response to an idiotic minority screwing things up for the sensible majority and whether the behaviour of the minority justifies society placing restriction on the majority as the only ossible way of curtailing the minorities behaviour.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Sep 24 - 08:10 PM

Hazeldean/Brushett case per The Guardian.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Sep 24 - 02:30 AM

pedestrians like anybody else owe due care and attention to other road users
pedestrians and joggers who do their thing whilst having ear plugs in their ears, are not just a risk to them selves thay are a risk to others
.SPB original idea is unworkable and far too costly,
Western capitalist society considers that it is more important to protwct property ad finacial institutions than people ,people to some extent are not as important, which is why hackers and bank robbers generaaly get stiffer sentences then drunk drivers or drivers who drive too fast and kill someobne, or peoplE who commit GBH
The original post is simply not practical

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Sep 24 - 03:28 AM

imo the judge got it wrong , there would not have been an accident if the pedestrian was not looking at her phone while crossing the road.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 16 Sep 24 - 07:57 AM

> LIGHTS

One thing that tends to annoy me as much as a lack of lights is cyclists whose rear lights blink constantly: it says "look at me! look at me!" in a thoroughly distracting manner, like a hyper child in a supermarket. It's even less excusable in broad daylight, when it distracts drivers from (eg) oncoming vehicles.

One (erm) cyclist round our way used to specialise in rigging up what appeared to be a red Christmas tree of das blinkenlights on the back of his bike, about three feet across and five feet high. Quite what the bus drivers stuck behind him used to call him is happily not recorded.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Sep 24 - 08:26 AM

Lovely day here. May have a ride on my bike later. Hope none of the cyclist bashers on here are about :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 16 Sep 24 - 08:29 AM

Re wandering-pedestrian syndrome: Some years ago, the authorities in (I *think*) New Zealand used the term sheeple in a safety-advertising campaign.   Full-sized billboards showed herds of oblivious pedestrians wandering across an intersection, all looking down at their hypnosis machines phones; the caption was "Don't be a sheeple".

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Sep 24 - 10:50 AM

I made it back with only 1 incident. I was in the centre of the right lane to go right at a roundabout when Mr Impatient decided to turn right from the left hand lane. Only expected in Keighley I suppose...

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Thompson
Date: 18 Sep 24 - 07:19 AM

Surely the trope is "Wake up, sheeple"!

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Sep 24 - 08:26 AM

"One thing that tends to annoy me as much as a lack of lights is cyclists whose rear lights blink constantly: it says "look at me! look at me!" in a thoroughly distracting manner, like a hyper child in a supermarket. It's even less excusable in broad daylight, when it distracts drivers from (eg) oncoming vehicles."

Wow, if you're distracted by a tiny light powered by a couple of AAA batteries that will likely be in your field of vision for a very brief moment then perhaps it's time to give up driving. I keep my blinking light on just because of all the drivers out there that are so easily distracted.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 18 Sep 24 - 11:22 AM

Yes. It's meant to draw attention to the cyclist and be visible from a long way away.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: leeneia
Date: 20 Sep 24 - 12:12 AM

I think people who enter traffic (not in a vehicle) in dark clothes are foolish. A bicyclist, say, on a shady street, is too hard to see. Same for motorcycles, scooters, and pedestrians. And it's sad but true that most motorists are so focused on the dangers presented by other cars that they tend not to see small traffic until their almost upon it.

Lights, of course, are a good idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Thompson
Date: 20 Sep 24 - 10:41 AM

I think lots of things about lots of road users that aren't my business. But I try to look after my own self, instead of pointing.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 20 Sep 24 - 01:12 PM

> I think people who enter traffic (not in a vehicle) in
> dark clothes are foolish.

Herself's cousin was called into a hospital as a translator. The chap in the bed was coloured and was wearing black clothes ("the only thing you could see in the dark was his teeth"); he'd been cycling along a Dutch road on the wrong side, at night, without lights. He kept saying (in English): "But I put out my hand to turn right ...."

.... but I'm sure I've mentioned this before.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 24 Sep 24 - 12:22 PM

Sunday night saw two prime candidates for the Darwin award two cyclists belting along a residential street,no lights, not bothering about what side of the road they should be on, and coming withing inches of a head on collision with each other clearly both acting on the principle that the other cyclist had a duty too take responsivity for their own lack of consideration. Oh I was pedestrian - no cars in the picture at al except for those parked on the road.

Trouble is if that had of resulted in a serious accident, they would have expected an ambulance which could be better deployed saving someone else's life to arrive.

S

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Sep 24 - 11:45 AM

but they haven't caused any deaths so far as I know.

Now I can't actually recall any actual reports of delivery riders dying, but hovering in the deepest depth of my cerebellum is the certainty of reading/hearing of such things. And if we wanted to go back far enough we all know the origin of Elton John's tune "Song for Guy" ......... don't we?

Cue pedantic responses.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Thompson
Date: 28 Sep 24 - 06:27 AM

The worriers-about-cyclists really, really should look at the figures for road deaths. Cars, vans and trucks - oh, and sometimes tractors too - cause virtually all of them.
And let's look at the stupidity of passengers inside cars too; I made the mistake of watching a video sponsored by the RSA (Road Safety Association) in Ireland last week, about what happens when you put your feet on the dashboard or don't wear a seatbelt, or wear it incorrectly. What's stayed in me more than the other horrors is that those gobshites that wear the belt under one arm but passing behind them will have the arm razored off them in a crash, because the seatbelt under strain and wrongly worn turns into a fast-moving serrated knife.
And don't even think about the effect of an explosive charge setting off the airbags (which is how they work) and blasting the legs back into the passenger's face, ribs, etc; or the drivers with phones they were holding embedded between their ribs…

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Sep 24 - 07:54 AM

"I think people who enter traffic (not in a vehicle) in
dark clothes are foolish."

Then there was the man who heard the slogan "Wear something white, be seen at night". He went out in a white coat and white trousers.
.
.
.
Got knocked down by a snowplough!

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Sep 24 - 02:42 AM

did you ever hear tell of johnny gray,he died defending his right of way he was right dead right all the way, but he was dead all right at the end of the day