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95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS!
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Subject: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 05 Oct 09 - 11:30 AM WARNING! Hugely angry right now, so there may well be bad language to follow! OK..... I have just had the Occupational Therapist from Torbay Care Trust around, to see about putting handles on the wall in our bathroom, so that my 95 year old ex-mother-in-law can get in and out of the bath. This is how it went..... She sat down with her, asked her how she was, what she was able to do, how she copes. Vi (Violet) told her that she'd been 'washing down' for the past 7 weeks, since we came here. (This was because Torbay did not consider her 'critical', after hearing she was doing this, when I first rang them, and therefore they didn't come round for 7 bloody weeks!) So, she's interviewed about how she is...She tells the lady about her stiff shoulders, how she has trouble lifting her arms up and down, but that she forces herself through the pain, because that's how she's always been, a fighter... She told her about her gippy tummy, her IBS syndrome....that she's registered blind and very deaf, although she now has hearing aids which have improved her life greatly (and mine)....She told her about Mick, her husband who died 10 years ago, reliving moments from that time, getting tearful.... And the woman listened....took notes.... Then, we all went into the bathroom, where Vi showed her how she stands in front of the basin to wash down. She told her how she washes her feet in a bowl, holding on tight to the basin....She told her how she washes her hair, even though it's hard for her to do. Then she told her how, in Sidmouth, she had a bath twice a week, got into the bath on her own...(she's a hugely determined ol' lady, who refuses to give in, despite her difficulties...) The woman looked at the bath...and suggested a wooden seat to go across the bath. The way, Vi could sit on it safely, pull the shower curtain across and use the shower handle to wash herself. But she wasn't happy with that, Vi, that is...saying she'd prefer the handles....but the lady wouldn't let her have them, as she considered them far more of a risk than the seat.. I stood there watching, listening....waiting.... We went back into Vi's room and the lady started to talk. She told Vi that she was terribly sorry, but she didn't meet The Criteria and therefore the Authority couldn't provide her with the handles........or........the seat! Well.......................... .....I went quiet..........very quiet.......DANGEROUSLY quiet!!!!!! And then....THEN...the flood poured out!!!!! "Pardon?" "We can't provide her with the handles, as she's not 'critical'." "Scuse me???????? She's NINETY FIVE YEARS OLD AND SHE HAS A RIGHT TO HAVE A BATH!!!!" "No, you don't understand..." In my head I thought..."Oh no, I fucking understand alright!!!!!" "You see...Torbay Care Trust has no money. We have NO money. None. We are millions of pounds in debt and Gordon Brown has now frozen any more money from coming into the NHS" "The BLOODY ****COUNTRY**** IS BANKRUPT!" I said! I then erupted even more, not at the woman, as I know it's not her fault, she's just 'carrying out orders'.....but when she asked me what I thought of the decision I told her. I told her with tears in my eyes that my beautiful country has been bled fucking dry by corrupt corporate souless bastards who don't give a shit about ANYONE!! I told her that this was IMMORAL! I told her that I was ready to go to anyone..ANYONE about this! I asked her for the head of the Trust Care, but she told me I had to write to him in the correct manner, follow the right procedure, before they'd respond! I ranted! I raged! I wept! And through it all, little Vi sat there, bewildered, utterly bewildered! Born in 1914, lived through two world wars...no trouble to anyone, never been a trouble even to her doctor and the fucking NHS won't even pay for handles for her...telling her that she's just fine and bloody dandy to carry on standing in front of her basin, putting her near on 100 year old feet in a bloody bowl!!!!!!!!!!! PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF! as Bruce would say!! In fact...F'ing PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTT "I can see you're angry, Lizzie" she said.... "Angry!??????????????? NO! I am wayyyyyyyy beyond ANGER!!!!!" I told her about the corruption, the apathy, the Orwellian times we now live in, the bastards who see 95 year olds as just more fodder to cut back on, whilst they wine and dine themselves in their posh bloody offices!!! "We've been waiting for something like this to happen..." she told me, staring at me in a strange way...."We KNEW it was just a matter of time" "This isn't 'just a matter of time" I told her...."this IS The Time!" She then suggested to Vi that she bought the handles herself and Age Concern would come and fit them for free....??????????!!!!!!!!! "She's a pensioner! And why the hell should she HAVE to pay! This is immoral! I'm going to the press about this, BIGTIME!" "I'll pay, dear" said Vi..... "No, Vi, you are NOT paying for something that you should have for free! This is WRONG! It is absolutely bloody WRONG!" So...the Occupational Therapist left, promising to send me details of what to do, HOW to complain........ And the air turned blue with verbal !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'s! Then, I rang BBC Radio Devon...and I exploded on the phone to them, asking if they'd be interested in doing the story...and I practically cried to them to DO something about what is happening in my country, my father's BELOVED country!!!! I told them of the music, the songs that are being written about all of this, but which are not being allowed 'out there'.. I told them how all those years back, I stood and listened to one woman on BBC Radio Devon complaining about the Poll Tax....and how, within days that interview had gone to every local BBC station, then to the Big Guys in London..and how just a week or so later the whole country was on the Poll Tax Marches, bringing our cities to a complete standstill! I was on that march, with my little girl, in her pushchair.. Well, my little girl is now 22 years old and my beloved country is in absolute SHITE and no-one gives a fuck at the top!!!!!! They count their pennies...they make us work for 6 hours, on basic wages with no tea breaks, no lunch breaks, even telling us that if we WANT a tea break, they'll take 15 minutes OFF our salary!!!??????????? 95 years old! And they expect her to stand with her feet in a bowl to wash them, because they don't consider that she needs to have a bath!! Well, fuck the lot of 'em!!! Radio Devon said they'd ring me back...and they did exactly that, minutes later.... Tomorrow, at 10.30am they are sending a reporter around and asked if I'd be willing to go live on radio and TV. I said "Absobloodylutely!" I told her that this country is Tinderbox Dry with Anger...and ALL it needs is just one match! I've decided to be the match! |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 05 Oct 09 - 11:30 AM Could this be in BS please, Joe... Sorry, so angry that I forgot to put the prefix in! |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 05 Oct 09 - 11:43 AM Wish I could hear it in Essex... |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: manitas_at_work Date: 05 Oct 09 - 11:47 AM Get in touch with Help the Aged for some advice. When my Mum was widowed they came round and assessed her home and put new locks and window catches on for her. Even if they didn't do the same for your Mum ehy might be able to help in other ways. I would have thought, though, that this sort of thing was for the Social Services department of the her local council rather than the NHS. |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Dave the Gnome Date: 05 Oct 09 - 12:19 PM Maybe the Occupational Therapist reads the Borchester Echo or listens to the Archers? :-P Seriously though - Get in touch with another agency, as already suggested. Above all, keep calm when dealing with beurocracy. I know it's difficult but the people you are dealing with are only human. If you rant and rave to them they will switch off and the one to suffer will be your ex MIL. Good luck DeG |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Ebbie Date: 05 Oct 09 - 12:31 PM Sheesh. In this country we put in our own bluddy handles. Has the 'mother' country forgotten how? |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Alice Date: 05 Oct 09 - 12:34 PM That's what I was wondering. A screwdriver, some screws, a handle, easy. |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: SINSULL Date: 05 Oct 09 - 12:35 PM I thought the same thing, Ebbie. The seats, which are much safer, range from $18 to $150 depending on features. |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Alice Date: 05 Oct 09 - 12:36 PM Here's one that you don't even have to screw into the wall, less than $20. http://www.brandsonsale.com/bath-tub-safety-handles.html |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: SINSULL Date: 05 Oct 09 - 12:43 PM Scary to think that this poor old lady and the children have to deal with hysterics and obscenities over something that could be handled with a few phone calls and some common sense. |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Jack Campin Date: 05 Oct 09 - 12:46 PM Somebody needs to look up "scoial care". Expecting the NHS to do this is like asking them to lag your boiler. |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 05 Oct 09 - 01:06 PM "Scary to think that this poor old lady and the children have to deal with hysterics and obscenities over something that could be handled with a few phone calls and some common sense." Yeah, you're so right, Mary...I should just roll over and play dead. I should have just sat there and said "Oh, I SAY, thanks *awfully* for that, m'dear. How utterly silly of me to think the NHS would care about a 95 year old lady and see what they could do to make her life more easy. I do awfully apologise for being so thick and stoopid! I'll go away, back to Prolesville and live my little life in the way I'm supposed to..." Well.................................................. F*ck that! Tell me, WHY do you think Kate brought round the details of who to ocmplain to, so fast? WHY do you think Radio Devon rang me back within minutes? My country is in a terrible state and you know why, because people have STOPPED caring! They shy away from anger, conditioned to just 'accept' these days... Well........ ..f*ck that, too! WHAT has happened to us all? Are you SERIOUSLY telling me that you think the NHS is right? Or is it that being in America, if that's where you are, that you have no concept of what the National Health Service is about??? In Sidmouth, 10 years back, I rang Social Services and they were round in days, 2 handles fitted safely and securely. And that was that. Vi then could have a bath with dignity again. Now, *she* is expected to buy those handles herself, then Age Concern, a charity, is expected to put them in? Kate even turned up with a 'Handyman' leaflet, with names of local Handymen who'd help out????????? What will we have in another 10 years then, if we all roll over and play dead? No beds for 95 year olds because there aren't enough and the 75 year old deserve them more? No medication for 95 year olds, because they're costing too much money and the new policy is to just let them die, get them out of the way. Already, I have been told that a little, frail lady, is not considered eligible, under The New Criteria to have a bath because she can manage to stand up on her own. The fact she can't GET IN the bath, without handles, is irrelevant. When my Dad was alive, we had District Nurses, and they came round free of charge to bathe people in their own homes. She used to stay for a cup of tea too, and have a quick chat to Dad. He so looked forward to her coming each week. It was as much about social care as health...Just after he died, they stopped the District Nurses. You have to pay these days to have people help you have a bath... This is not just about 'handles'....it's about morality and so much that is wrong...and pathetic remarks such as the one I have quoted above, do nothing to help, because people who give in all the time are actually creating this terrible situation. |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: SINSULL Date: 05 Oct 09 - 01:26 PM "I would have thought, though, that this sort of thing was for the Social Services department of the her local council rather than the NHS. " Maybe you need to make a few phone calls and see which agency is actually responsible for installing handles. Here in the US, if I call Medicare regarding an issue handled by Social Security I will not get service. If I yell, scream obscenities and claim that the country is in ruins, they will assume I am a nut job and hang up. Once again you are off and running in six diiferent directions blaming everyone for everything rather than settling down and handling your mother-in-law's need for a simple safety bar. "I ranted! I raged! I wept!" I am sure that helped a lot. "And through it all, little Vi sat there, bewildered, utterly bewildered! " I don't doubt it. "Well, my little girl is now 22 years old and my beloved country is in absolute SHITE and no-one gives a fuck at the top!!!!!! They count their pennies...they make us work for 6 hours, on basic wages with no tea breaks, no lunch breaks, even telling us that if we WANT a tea break, they'll take 15 minutes OFF our salary!!!???????????" WHAAAA?????? How will this help get your mother-in-law a safety bar? |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: artbrooks Date: 05 Oct 09 - 01:27 PM Well, rant aside, I put this to my wife, who is an occupational therapist. She says that hanging on to handles while standing upright to wash, especially a foot wash, is highly unsafe. A tub transfer bench, which extends over the side of the tub so you sit down and then swing your feet in, is the professionally recommended way to go. If a shower chair, which sits inside the tub, is provided, she recommends a tub-side grab bar such as in the link Alice noted or a wall grab bar for support while your mother steps into the tub. Simpler and cheaper and if there is room and your mother doesn't want to get into the tub, a small chair next to the sink, positioned so she is seated when she washes her feet in the foot bath, might work. Bathroom equipment is not a covered service under Medicare in the US, although it may be covered under some insurance plans - purchase and installation is the patient's/patient's family's responsibility. |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: SINSULL Date: 05 Oct 09 - 01:30 PM "Yeah, you're so right, Mary...I should just roll over and play dead." No. Calmly and methodically make the phone calls to the various agencies until you find the one that is responsible for providing this service. If your goal is to help your mother-in-law, do it. If your goal is to have another hysterical rant at the invisible "Them" who seem to plague your very existence, then leave the poor old lady out of it. |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: robomatic Date: 05 Oct 09 - 01:41 PM Lizzie I read your description of the situatioin, and your rant, and I want to thank you for the effort. I think it brings to the fore the different expectations we bring to a simple, basic issue. Not all of us are going to have the fortune to live to your ex M.I.L's age, but the majority of us will experience issues of requiring assistance from a bureacracy to meet needs we can't meet on our own. I had similar reactions to the other Americans, that the lady in question deserved a bath, but the seat would seem to be a safer way to go and it is a relatively minor purchase. I have health insurance at my new job but it would be below my deductible unless it was a prescribed item. You have a different background and experience, and you got crosswise with the deliverer of bad news. One aspect of the situation that would frost me is to have someone spend a lot of time with me, get a lot of details, and then give me the information that they won't help, they can't help, they came to the door with the expectation that they wouldn't help no matter what I told them. With the age of the person, the self respect that comes with being able to look after oneself, I would follow the line that you solve the immediate problem because it will make life better, just as the hearing aides did (Did those get fully funded by NHS?). I would count my blessings and my friends, and maybe even make peace if not apologize to someone who at least took the trouble to pay you a house call and speak to the issues. Thank you for writing as you did, all the best.... |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: gnu Date: 05 Oct 09 - 01:42 PM Re the bathtub Grab Rail Bar.... be VERY careful... read the fine print. These are only to steady a standing person. If you are getting down into, or up out of, the tub, these can be exceeding dangerous as they are not designed to take the forces needed to assist these movements. They take vertical force but will not take the horizontal forces or torques from other movements. |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Rasener Date: 05 Oct 09 - 01:44 PM Lizzie If you so much as use one expletive on The radio, they will cut you off. So calm down and try to be calm and collected, otherwise you will not be helping this lady. Which town or village are you living in in Torbay? Sometimes Village Hall committees do an aweful lot to help the elderly and the parish council could help you there. Ther are normally lots of people willing to help indeed do things for now't if you use your noddle and calm down and putting your brain into the right gear. I have people I can get in touch with down there as I used to live in Paignton, but they are unlikely to help if you swear and get angry like you are doing now. |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Dave the Gnome Date: 05 Oct 09 - 01:47 PM Lizzie - Just remembered. We have a SPARE bath lift that we do not use. If it can be of any use just PM me. Forget the hystrionics and arguments. This is a genuine offer of help. I you want to take me up on it PM me with your details and I will send you a photo and full details. Dang - more than that. If you want I will post it as well! Cheers Dave |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Dave the Gnome Date: 05 Oct 09 - 01:48 PM My apologies - That should have been a PM. Mea Culpa - PM on it's way as well... |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Zen Date: 05 Oct 09 - 01:56 PM Out of temporary retirement to empathise with Lizzie on this. For those not in the UK... this is something that would have once normally been dealt with under the UK care system that we all pay into. I expect had it been a dependant of mine I might have been somewhat annoyed as well given that this government has bailed out the banksters to the tune of some £400 billion. |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Wesley S Date: 05 Oct 09 - 01:57 PM This is a serious question. Why ask the government for help? Is this something you can afford to buy and install yourself? If not you - is there another family member you can ask to buy and install these items? In the time it talks to talk to a radio ot TV station these bars could be installed already. Or maybe I'm missing something. |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: mandotim Date: 05 Oct 09 - 01:58 PM Lizzie; when you go to the greengrocers, do you swear at them for not having ironmongery? Fitting bath handles etc. is nothing to do with the NHS in most areas, it's a Social Services responsibility. Contact them, ask for an OT assessment (they employ OTs too). Social Care is, of course, means tested (thank you, Margaret Thatcher)so your relative may have to contribute some of the cost. The reason the NHS is tightening its belt has nothing to do with inefficiency of heartlessness; for that we can thank the bankers who precipitated the recession, and required all the spare cash to stop the system going under (doesn't seem to have stopped them trousering huge bonuses though). Venting your rage on low paid public servants is counterproductive; lots of money will be spent on investigating your claims and putting silly rules in place that will make it even harder to do their jobs. Please think about what you are doing, and try using the correct channels first. Tim |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 05 Oct 09 - 02:22 PM "...as she considered them far more of a risk than the seat" Maybe she's right there. And what on earth is the problem in putting in the handles yourrself? |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: GUEST,Edthefolkie Date: 05 Oct 09 - 02:38 PM My experience (my old mum died at 95 early this year) is that the local county council and, if it exists, the local borough council act in cahoots over support for elderly people. The NHS only gets involved if the elderly person lands up in hospital - the hospital has to contact the local authority as they can't just discharge the person in case inadequate support is present back at home. My mum's case was slightly different to Lizzie's ma in law as mum lived in a council house - so they had to provide stuff like bath handles. However, for most people, provision of stuff like carers, wheelchairs, handles, bath seats, Zimmer frames, even stairlifts is down to the local council(s) -there will be a person in the local care department who is does proper assessments. Councils HAVE to employ people like this (errrr....how long this will continue to be true after the next election is a bit of a question mark!) The current received wisdom however is that local authorities should try to keep old people in their own place as long as possible as it costs far more if they are in residential care or whatever. Some authorities are more zealous than others of course but that's life/politics. There is also help and advice available from organisations like Age Concern, Help the Aged etc. A friend of mine actually managed to get a "new" kitchen for his old mum, installed and all, from Help the Aged, even though she was a householder, not a tenant, and he's not a con artist! Having said all that, the issue of "who you gonna call" is a bit of a minefield, as my sister and I found. It also took us months to get everybody's correct numbers on both our mobiles, including carers, council employees, doctors, pharmacists, etc etc etc ad infinitum. Hope this gets sorted Lizzie, I know it's difficult - having just got over my mum, my wife's mum is now very confused and we have to go through the whole care/assessment/angst/upset again - at 150 miles distance this time. |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Don Firth Date: 05 Oct 09 - 02:57 PM Lizzie, your lack of self-control is totally counterproductive. Read and learn. I am currently dealing with a recalcitrant bureaucracy regarding public transportation that I need. I am unable to walk and must use a wheelchair. I am also unable to transfer from my wheelchair to and from an automobile because of the difference in heights between the seat of the wheelchair and the seats of the auto. So—a good alternative that the county in which I live offers to disabled people who qualify (show a genuine need for the service) are a fleet of vans with wheelchair lifts and tie-downs, driven by qualified drivers. This is a service mandated by the Americans with Disabilities Act, which requires that public transportation be available to the disabled, as well as a number of other things, such as public buildings, theaters, etc, be wheelchair accessible. I used the "Metro Access" van service for several years. I call a day or two in advance and schedule a ride to an appointment, and another ride home again. I found it very convenient, as did others who qualified for and used the service. A few months ago, they began disqualifying people, or at least requiring them to come in for an interview and demonstrate that they actually needed the service. There were two reasons for this. First, there were a lot of people with minor disabilities who where perfectly capable of taking regular public transportation who were using the Metro Access van service for their personal buses. AND—due to budget deficits, they are trying to reduce the cost of the service, hence the service itself. I was one of those disqualified. So I scheduled an interview. They determined that I was not senile and could understand a bus schedule. And that I could, indeed, use the wheelchair lifts that the city buses are equipped with. So—on that basis, they decided that I didn't need the van service, I could ride regular public transportation. This totally ignores the fact that, of the two bus stops nearest to where I live, one is five blocks away and down a dangerously steep hill, if one happens to be in a wheelchair. The other is four blocks away in the other direction: up a hill which is not quite as steep, but it is far too steep for me to push myself in my wheelchair. My arms and shoulders are simple not up to that. Rather that yell and swear at those who told me that I didn't qualify for the service, I fixed the person sternly in the eyes and asked if there was an appeal process. She said there was. I needed to write a letter detailing my reasons why I disagreed with their judgment. Very well, annoying, but easy enough to do. I told her that that is exactly what I will do. If that fails and I am still denied, I will, again, not shout and scream and make threats, I will contact the county council. The Metro van service us under their jurisdiction. If that fails to get action, I will contact my local state legislator—who happens to go to the same church that my wife does. I can carry that up the ladder if need be, contact my national Congressional Representative (Jim McDermott) and inform him that King County may be in violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act (McDermott is a fierce people's advocate and is a member of the House Ethics Committee). Someplace along the line (depending on the responses I get) I may very well contact the newspapers and a few of my local television news departments. They all have "consumer protection" departments, and they're all looking for a good crusade. I know that I will prevail, and within a few weeks, I will have the Metro Access van service available to me. Feel your anger, yes! It can give you the energy to bring about what you know is right. But—yelling, screaming, and swearing at those whose help you are going to need, whether they want to do it or not will accomplish nothing except to convince them, and others, that you are simply a nasty-tempered nut-case. Cool it! Use you head! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Folkiedave Date: 05 Oct 09 - 02:59 PM I hesitate to join in on this because Lizzie thinks stalk her. But I went through all this ten years ago with my own mother 87 at the time. It was the local authority OT who assessed her and provided the gear, including a specialised bath lift. And we had no problems. In fact it was a problem giving the stuff back!! |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 05 Oct 09 - 03:38 PM "No. Calmly and methodically make the phone calls to the various agencies until you find the one that is responsible for providing this service. If your goal is to help your mother-in-law, do it. If your goal is to have another hysterical rant at the invisible "Them" who seem to plague your very existence, then leave the poor old lady out of it." I HAVE the correct department! Please, do not patronize me, Mary. I used to damn well book up 25 open heart operations a week, organising the entire medical teams, hospitals, patients and the Cardiothoarcic Surgeon and Cardiologist I used to work for! They were the Heads of St. Bartholomew's Hospital, in London....Dr. Roworth Spurrell and Mr. Gareth Rees, so please....do NOT keep treating me like a f*cking idiot, OK? Gee WHIZZ!!!!!!!! No, the point that many of you are missing here is the MORALS of this. The more we all shrug our shoulders, go out and buy the handles and think..."Another thing lost..." then we put another stone in our own Coffin of England...and soon, soon she will sink so damn deep into the Mire of Apathy, that it will be impossible to drag her out! Well, sod that for a game of soldiers! My Dad did NOT go to war for his generation to be told they 'do not meet the criteria' at 95 years of age to be allowed the dignity of a bath!!! Dad would be exactly the same age as Vi...and for those who aren't too sure, she is my EX mother-in-law, as I am divorced. I will NOT give in....I will not submit, as so many others have done, because someone, somewhere, sometime HAS to stand up and say "ENOUGH!" David, that's extremely kind of you. Thank you very much indeed. x IF Torbay Care Trust, which is also part of Torbay Council is bankrupt...and they are...then HOW has this happened, and WHY? And if Gordon Brown has stopped payments to the NHS for the next two and a half years, then again, WHY? Villan, I can actually be very controlled when I want to, but believe you me, I can also lose it. I lost it on the phone to Radio Devon, yet STILL they rang me back I am sick to death of people who have taken all that my Father stood for, all that Vi stands for, and spat on it! Honesty, integrity, determination, true grit....It has all been replaced by corruption and cowardice! It is shaming! Utterly shaming! The Occupational Therapist *wanted* me to complain! She could see in my eyes that I the light she needed to get this blown apart! South West Water....another bunch of Bastards! They charge the HIGHEST water rates in the country! Again, even their OWN staff have asked me to complain, and believe you me, I have ranted to them these past months....They can't afford their water bills either... I mean... What the hell has happened when people lie awake at night worrying about paying for water?????????? Water meters are the most corrupt things. Yes, if you are on your own, or there are just 2 of you, then you save money, but if you have a family...forget it....and once The Bastards put one in, they will NEVER remove it. ??????? I'm lucky because Vi has IBS and gets a pension, so therefore I can claim the Water Sure scheme, but...even on that I'll still be paying more than my friend does, who lives in a very wealthy part of Hampshire, in a large detached house...???? Someone once sang "There are Cutthroats, Crooks and Conmen running this land..." and they inspired me even more to fight...but it seems that for some reason, even they have given in...and that saddens me deeply...because the traditional world is NOT where they should be, but the political one..out there, carrying the torch as they have have always done.... Those of you have been so kind, thank you very much, I really appreciate it... Those of you who have told me to do this myself and just not bother with the raging....NEVER! Vi is 95 and she has never given in! My Dad never gave in until the day he died, even though he could barely breathe, due to his emphysema..and he went to war for me, even though I wasn't born back then... My Dad went to war for ALL of us... We are at War at the moment, not just in Afghanistan, but at war with those we cannot see, those we are kept away from...and for way too long, they have been winning. Well, they ain't gonna win anymore! |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: GUEST,Edthefolkie Date: 05 Oct 09 - 03:39 PM Dave, that struck a chord. We found it quite difficult to return local authority provided stuff too. In spite of the aggro there can be a certain (grim) humour involved. The local care supremo, feeling guilty over a delay to a stairlift, wangled a wheelchair, although my Mum said she didn't want it. Some mobility jobsworth then delivered said item while I was not present, leaving it where Mum would inevitably fall over it - and she did. Result - carer called emergency services (and, thank God, me), trip to A & E, 2 day stay in hospital. After my mother's death a few months later, the unused wheelchair sat in her house for over a month until the mobility van turned up and chitties and wheelchair were exchanged. On balance though the services in the county/suburban areas of the UK are pretty good - the caring services, once they do grind into action, fall over themselves (perhaps an unfortunate phrase!) to help. I just hope it all carries on when us baby boomers start needing carers etc (at this rate in my case about a fortnight from now.....) |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Folkiedave Date: 05 Oct 09 - 04:14 PM Speaking as a baby boomer...... |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Richard Bridge Date: 05 Oct 09 - 04:41 PM The OT is the right person. Gravesham fitted bath handles without demur for my late mother, and, in a different house, for my late father before her. Lizzie may be a little -er- expressive, but credit where credit is due. |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Jack Campin Date: 05 Oct 09 - 08:38 PM Might be worth noting that because this sort of thing isn't an NHS function, provision varies between the different nations of the UK. Social care is in theory better funded in Scotland - in practice, when resources are limited, there are always going to be hoops to jump through. I tend to be rather unsympathetic to such trivial requests, though. Something like this can only cost in double figures and should be doable by anybody who can handle a power drill and a screwdriver. It's not like needing a home oxygen set or a stairlift, and Lizzie is hardly impoverished. I was brought up to know how to bodge things - so when I needed to learn simple denture repairs and to make my girlfriend a custom-moulded fibreglass wrist support, I just did it rather than demand that some professional step in. The denture job wasn't as good as what a dental tech would have done; the wrist support was probably better than a hospital would have produced since I was willing to take longer getting it right. On another forum I was treated to an interminable saga by a woman who couldn't get some gizmo sized just right for her disabled husband. She dragged the fight out for months on end insisting that the hospital provide it and leaving her hubby to get steadily worse from immobility, when 20 quid's worth of Dexion, tubing and bolts could have done the job in an afternoon, needing no more skill than a kid playing with Meccano. Self-righteous, sadistic dimwit. An inspired book about bodging: Victor Papanek, "Design for the Real World". It ought to be on school curricula. |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: jacqui.c Date: 05 Oct 09 - 10:08 PM We're both on pensions but managed to afford to put in a grab handle in the bathroom. What you have to remember is that there are a growing number of elderly people, with the baby boomer generation coming into the age group and that means increased strain on the system, even without the worldwide recession that has caused even more problems. In a perfect world we would all have the safety net of social services to rely on, but, if this was the case right now just think about what it would cost, per capita, to provide all that assistance. There would be some royal screaming from just about every taxpayer then. It sounds as if you are living in the same house. Can you not afford to go out and buy this item and get it installed by Age Concern? Vi is going to have to wait even longer for her bath while you stand on principle, isn't she? |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: MGM·Lion Date: 06 Oct 09 - 02:01 AM 'Might be worth noting that because this sort of thing isn't an NHS function, provision varies between the different nations of the UK.' ... & even between different Health Authorities. When my late wife had difficulties caused by her Parkinsons disease, the local [Cambs] *District Nursing* service were wonderful, two of them coming round to assess her needs, then sending a man round within 48 hours to fit a bath-shower stool [we already had handles as they came with our bath, otherwise they assured us they would have been provided also], handles for in/out of bed, &c.; they also carefully checked that we had such necessities as a dimpled rubber shower-mat. After she died, a single phone call brought another man to come & take them all out again. So it seems that Lizzie is unfortunate in that Cornwall is not so well furnished with such services. What experiences have those under other health authorities had? |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: mandotim Date: 06 Oct 09 - 02:24 AM Just to clarify; in these cases the assessment of need is done by an Occupational Therapist. These are employed either by the NHS or the Local Authority Social Services Department. The budget for provision of equipment and home aids is held by Social Services. No amount of yelling at the NHS staff will produce a result, as they do not control the allocation of resources, and nor do they carry out the work. This is done either by directly employed Social Services staff or (more likely) private contractors working on behalf of Social Services. Lizzie; I'm not questioning your competence here, only your willingness to listen to good advice. If you want to resolve this, your first port of call should be the case manager at Social Services, and if that doesn't work, try involving your local Councillor. MP's can be useful too, as a sort of battering ram to remove logjams. Try a low-key approach first, as going straight to the press (who are scum and looking for a sensationalist 'angle'that will probably not help Vi at all) will just produce a defensive reaction and may well entrench the situation. Having said all that, if you really want to fix this, do what I did when my Mum had her hips replaced; buy a rail and fix it, or get someone from Age Concern (who get funding from Social Services) to do it for you. It's a quick and easy job, I just used two sturdy towel rail brackets and a length of steel tubing. Six screws, fifteen minutes at the most, and it cost me £11. Hope you get this sorted soon, but be calm! Tim |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: DMcG Date: 06 Oct 09 - 03:24 AM "This is not just about 'handles'....it's about morality and so much that is wrong...and pathetic remarks such as the one I have quoted above, do nothing to help, because people who give in all the time are actually creating this terrible situation." Only partly. I heard about a case yesterday. In our area treatment for chiropody is by appointment and always has been. In this case an old gentleman turned up and wanted treatment there and then. The appointment system was explained to him but he was not interested: he wanted his appointment immediately. So it was again explained that the only way he could get treated that day was if someone did not turn up for their appointment; however as it happened in the other building about 10 miles away there had already been a cancellation: did he want that appointment? No: he wanted to be treated where he was, now. After a few hours a district nurse arrived on other business and the staff persuaded her to squeeze seeing him in between her other commitments. He has since put in a formal complaint because he did not get seen immediately. As all complaints have to be followed through properly, that's another cost put on the system. So I don't accept that it is "people who give in all the time who are creating this situation"; there is also a lot of abuse in the form of people demanding that they receive special treatment like this man; initiating complaints processes that require substantial time and effort (since if they are upheld it could be very expensive for the NHS); not turning up for appointments; demanding the approval of expensive drugs that extend cancer patients lives by a few months thus absorbing money that would otherwise for more basic care like district nurses... |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Rasener Date: 06 Oct 09 - 04:25 AM Torbay is in Devon, not Cornwall http://www.multimap.com/maps/#map=50.45145,-3.55157|13|4&bd=useful_information&loc=GB:50.45177:-3.55792:14|Torbay|Torbay, Cockin |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: MGM·Lion Date: 06 Oct 09 - 04:40 AM Oh yes: sorry. So Why "Lizzie Cornish"? or is that her real name, maybe? ***Those who keep asserting that OTs from Social Services are the only people involved, anywhere, nationwide, & the NHS have nothing to do with it, clearly haven't read my last post. It obviously varies according to area. Round here, in Cambs, it is the District Nursing service, part of NHS, who are responsible. & a fine job they do too.*** |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Folkiedave Date: 06 Oct 09 - 05:08 AM Lizzie Cornish is not her real name - anymore than I was christened folkiedave. And its her (ex) mother-in-law who is having the problem, she could be anywhere. As far as I can see Torbay Care Trust works this as a joint enterprise, social services/health service. As for them not having any money, nonsense. Is the Chief Executive getting paid? Then they have money, they have just chosen to spend it somewhere else. One of the problems is that I am not sure Mudcat is the best place to be discussing this. Two reasons. There are other places (forums or to be pedantic fora) that deal with this far better. They often have lay people that have developed strategies for dealing with what I suspect are common problems. The second is that Lizzie (IMHO) does have previous as far as rants are concerned and sometimes her version of the truth is not always to be believed. Thus people - frankly including me - are wary of what she posts. I am not going into the whys or wherefores of this particular one. We may get both sides of the story if Radio Devon follow it through. In fact they may have done so by now. I look forward to hearing some feedback. |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: folktheatre Date: 06 Oct 09 - 05:18 AM I can't be bothered to read this whole thread. It's a monster. Anyway, I think we all have a right to care and look after each other. If we expect to government to do it for us we'll get nowhere. I understand your frustration but do your best. And vent your anger over the radiowaves cos it might make people realise we have an obligation to each other. It's something we're rapidly forgetting. |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: manitas_at_work Date: 06 Oct 09 - 08:10 AM So, Lizzie, has the family looked into doing the job themselves? It might be quicker, cheaper and less stressful than spending hours ranting and swearing at the care trust/NHS/Social Services and, indeed, us. What did Help the Aged advise? Or did you ignore that advice to spend more time typing asterisks? |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Folkiedave Date: 06 Oct 09 - 08:27 AM What you may also find interesting Manitas - was how Lizzie told us on the home education thread - that her son was working with a builder. Now it would seem to me that this would be a golden opportunity to give him some practical and useful experience especially since he doesn't go to school. However has anyone heard the broadcast? Do be kind enough to tell us what happened someone! |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: jeddy Date: 06 Oct 09 - 08:30 AM our story of getting things done. edi was in hospital after an operation on her back, it left her needing a cathater. they would not release her until she could wee on her own. i made five phone calls. the first to the doctor to ask if she could go there to get it changed. they gave me the number of the district nurse who said that was something they could help with. the district nurse i spoke to as very helpful and reassured me she could come to see her the day she was discharged. the fourth to the hospital again and she was out the last back to the district nurse to tell her when she was getting out of hospital, and to make a time for her to come round the same day. in the space of one hour they were getting ready to discharge her. it wasnt my job to arrange this, it should have been done by the nurses, but it got the the right result as fast and as painlessly as possible. the person who has my sympathies is your ex mother in law, who i am sure is hating all this fuss. if it is truely for her, have you asked her what route she wants to take? my guess is the one that gets it done without too much aggro. oh and lizzie, i don't think you are aware of how much your ranting upsets others. you seem to flit to another rant as soon as things get tough on another thread. on the homeschooling thread, i asked you a question, you came back and attacked me,please have the decency to finish what you started. i sincerly hope that this poor lady gets the things she needs, however you get there, she is the end goal, not proving some higher point. take care all jade x x x x |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Folkiedave Date: 06 Oct 09 - 08:59 AM As usual however there are things about Lizzie's posts where further explanation would be useful. I told them of the music, the songs that are being written about all of this, but which are not being allowed 'out there'.. Which songs are these and where is out there? If you are talking about particular artists did you name them? What did Radio Devon say to all this? I made an application to my local community station to have a folk music programme to get "the songs" "out there" and I now spend two hours a week doing just that. It really wasn't all that hard and I now renew without problem each six months. I started from absolute scratch almost two years ago so it is clearly possible. I have played many of the artists Lizzie complains about out not being heard, and have had a number of them in the studio and on the telephone to talk to. Some time ago Lizzie said she wanted to have a programme of her own to "put the music out there." I offered her some advice at the time as to what was needed to broadcast a folk music programme and I offered further help. It was there for the asking. I offered to tell her how mine was structured in the hopes that she might take some note and formulate a structure of her own. I wasn't looking for thanks but an acknowledgment would have been nice. A few days ago Lizzie offered to speak about home education to any gathering of any group of teachers anywhere. I thought about helping her to arrange this - since I have some good contacts in the teaching world. But I decided against it after all. Do try and think when you write Lizzie, please. For someone who has done everything to do with heart surgery except it seems the operation itself, you don't always display the same skills on here. Sorry for the thread drift but to make analogies can be useful. |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Tug the Cox Date: 06 Oct 09 - 09:25 AM Oh dear, do I hear chortling and gleeful hand rubbing. Look, just for once, forget it was Lizzie who posted, albeit in her inimitable style, and lets deal with the issue. Bath handles, which were deemed appropriate in East Devon are deemed not to be so in Torbay. Did East devon have an ineffective OT, or was Torbay's decision financial rather than professional grounds. |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: SINSULL Date: 06 Oct 09 - 09:27 AM Slightly off topic: some cities in the States now require that new homes and renovations be done with handicapped accessibility. This includes handrails in the bath, doors wide enough to accomodate wheel chairs, ramps, etc. Well meaning but cost-wise a real burden for the average homeowner. It cost me $13000 to renovate a bath up to city code WITHOUT widening the doorway or making the bath tub handicapped accessible. An upstairs apartment leaked and completely destroyed my bath. Falling ceilings took out the tub. A real disaster. Given that no one with a handicap would be using the bath and that my apartment had an inside stairway entrance I didn't see a handicapped person ever buying the place but had a city inspector chosen to visit I would have been fined and forced to make the upgrades. |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Rasener Date: 06 Oct 09 - 09:31 AM This will put the cat among the pidgeons A LAVATORY built for the Queen is getting a £4,000 makeover – even though it has never had a royal flush in 54 years. The loo was installed at Blackpool Opera House before the Queen's last visit in 1955. But it was never used and has been kept locked ever since. Now, as the theatre prepares to host this year's Royal Variety Show in December, builders are busily refurbishing the loo, installing a new sink, mirror, doors and lights – and a brand new WC for the sovereign. What can one say |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 06 Oct 09 - 09:35 AM I hope someone puts cling film over the seat and leaves the loo roll holder empty! Err, what else? Maybe let off a stink bomb in there for good measure.. |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 06 Oct 09 - 09:40 AM The thing that seems to have been ignored is that the OT appears to have come to the view that installing the handles would in fact be dangerous. The question of whether installing the handles should be down to teh NHS or Social Services therefore doesn't really arise. Theb OT may of course be mistaken in this matter, but it would be quite appropriate for her to use her professional judgment on something like this. |
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Subject: RE: 95 years old, can't have a bath on NHS! From: Dave the Gnome Date: 06 Oct 09 - 09:46 AM We are looking at the bath lift option so I suspect Lizzie is reserving judgement. Should know by Thursday all being well. DeG |
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