BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day

Subject: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 10:20 AM

I just heard it on NPR (so it MUST be true!) that if you want to honor St. Patrick's Day, pass on the green beer and go for the dark stout, which is certifiably Irish. Guiness is good. No doubt folks will mention others. Me, I can't get anything else in our limited selection gov't run liquor stores and even more limited "beer and wine" shoppes. Oh well. Perhaps I'll have to go to the pub. OTOH, there IS also Irish Mist and Irish creme, both available. And, of course, whiskey.

OTOH, OTOH, just singing Irish songs and not imbibing is also cool. I didn't mean to suggest that the only way to honor the day was to drink alcohol. Other'n Danny Boy, any popularly-known songs to suggest?

Didn't St. Patrick rid Ireland of the snakes, according to legend?

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 10:24 AM

Drink enough of the dark stuff and you'll start seeing the snakes again Saul.
I'm only half Irish so I only get half pissed!
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 10:31 AM

Or you could do what secular Irish folk do, and ignore the day altogether.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Windsinger
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 10:37 AM

I already ranted at length about this elsewhere, so I have nothing more to add. :)

Slán,

~Fionn

www.geocities.com/children_of_lir

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Alba
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 11:25 AM

Hi Saul,
I don't pay much heed to St Pat's day myself as it occures just before one of the eight Sabbats I celebrate called Ostara.
I did the St Patrick's Day Gigs the first year I arrived in America and that was enough for me as I was as green about the whole process here as the Beer they were serving in all the venues we played..**BG**. Talk about just off the Boat!:)
Guinness.... well I wait till I am on firm Irish turf before even thinking of partacking in the supping of Porter.

So whatever you do on March 17th Saul,
I wish you a safe and Happy Day.
and
for what it may be worth:)

Beannachtaí na Féile Pádraig ort!
(St. Patrick's Day Blessing On You)

Love and Light as always
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 03:32 PM

green beer?

how does that work out?
you mean bright green like washing up liquid? or black with a greeny tinge.
I'd like to see that, can you get it in England - nobody ever offered it me in Ireland even, or even a half of it in Scotland.

my favourite wine gums are the green ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Windsinger
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 03:59 PM

Wee,

You're not missing much. It's a gimmick that silly wankers American bartenders began doing in the 50's as a St. Patrick's Day promotional.

In fact, you can make a batch yourself, if you're feeling morbidly curious enough:

Basically you take pilsner, pale ale or any light-colored beer, and dump in bright green food coloring. When it looks as dangerously irradiated as the Irish Sea washing up against the Sellafield nuclear facility, :P that means you did it right.

It's an abhomination. Truly. And about as Irish as chicken vindaloo (the pale beer is a dead tip-off!!!!)

The city of Chicago dyes their principal river green on the 17th, as do several other cities. This perennially baffles the hell out of the Irish.

Slán,

~Fionn

www.geocities.com/children_of_lir

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: JulieF
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 04:10 PM

There was definitely green beer in Sheffield last year, didn't see it myself but it was there.

Personally, it's not the colour of the guinness but the quality and the price. So far the best price heard of is at Hallam student union bar at £1.50 where my daughter will be hanging out for the afternoon. She is celebrating going out and drinking with her mates rather than being forced into a dress and made to dance all the time ( and sometimes we flung her whistle or fiddle at her and made her play).

As a Scot adopted by the irish community, I will start at the Irish Centre and end up at a gig in Chesterfield.   It's always an interesting day - usually not going quite how you planned.

J

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Den
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 04:48 PM

Alba, Guinness is not porter it is stout, a very different animal;-) And anyone who would attempt to put food colouring in it deserves to have their spectacles stapled to their knee caps. Being Irish on Saint Patrick's day for me means, pining real shamrock on my coat, mass in the morning and then a nice breakfast with my family. After that we put out our Tricolour out and then my wife and I get together with my brother and some friends and go out to enjoy some good Irish music and Guinness.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Alba
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 05:24 PM

Stout and Porter are truly a different animal indeed Den!

I think it is more of a term we use as in "are ye going to Green's tonight for Porter and a few tunes?". **BG** ( I wish I were )
and being that Guinness doesn't talk, it doesn't seem to mind that we don't call it 'stout':)

The Day You and Your Family have planned sounds great. I hope you all celebrate heartily.

Lá Fhéile Pádraig Sona Duit
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: michaelr
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 06:08 PM

Stout and Porter are truly a different animal indeed Den!

Not so very different. In fact, Guinness used to be known as porter. If you look at the old Guinness ads that are so ubiquitous in Irish pubs, you'll see that the little guy ("My goodness! My Guinness!) is wearing a porter's uniform.

Slainte,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Peace
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 06:17 PM

I am still gonna be Scottish (50%), English (37.5%) and Irish (12.5%) on St Patrick's Day--or any other day for that matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 12:17 AM

My very fun and old English teacher served green beer to a few of us at her home on St. Patrick's one year. She was as Irish as they come, first generation here in America. The only problem I had with it was my dad always made us wear orange on that day to prove we weren't Papists and I felt I was betraying him in some way by drinking it green!

Some people need to lighten up, imo.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,Paul Burke lost his wotsit
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 03:35 AM

Historical note:

both porter and stout developed in London in the late 18th century. The characteristic creamy head was originally achieved by having two (or even three) barrels of naturally conditioned stout (fermenting in the barrel) available: a mature barrel (or two) low in CO2, that provided the body, and a fresh, rapidly fermenting barrel to give the head.

Paddy's day in England used to drive my mother mad, because we all had to wear sprigs of shamrock, and she didn't want to be taken for Irish- her mother was from old Lancashire Recusant stock!

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Windsinger
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 10:31 AM

anyone who would attempt to put food colouring in it [Guinness]deserves to have their spectacles stapled to their knee caps.

How would one tell if there's food coloring in black beer? :P

Slán,

~Fionn

www.geocities.com/children_of_lir

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 10:41 AM

By the colour of the foam.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 10:49 AM

Nice to see the stereotyping of Irish people as drunks alive and well.

It makes Irish people look almost as good as that enlightened group of Hibernian gay bashers.

All those in favor of banning St Patrick's Day (celebration of the excesses of fascist American Irish Catholicism), and getting this piss poor example of "being Irish" off the calendar...

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,Coyote Breath (upon the 'green')
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 02:24 PM

I will be wearing my football jersey (with the crest with three shamrocks) and a "Cat in the hat" type hat with shamrocks galore. I will be doing this because the lovely Kelly Parker has asked me to entertain the kiddies of her pre-school class. That will be in the morning.

Later that evening I will be wearing my Tiocfaidh ar La tee shirt with tricolor and clenched fist rampant. I will repair to a local cultural establishment to join in rolicking musical mayhem.

At that time I will sing the song my "Da" and I came up with one St. Pat's day long ago:

Does Your Mother Know You're Irish?

Does your mother know you're Irish?
Does she know your Da's a Mick
Did he hail from county Kerry
Or mayhaps from Limerick?

(we never finished the song but I'm sure you get the idea. contributions to fill it out are welcome. you've got 4 days)

CB

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 03:19 PM

I wonder if that's how they make that Bombay Gin blue?

if you're worried about racial stereotyping, why not start an Irish icons thread.

has anyone been on the Swansea Cork crossing ferry. theres an ad in the Irish Post this week and it looks very cheap. Is there a catch - like is the sea particularly rough going that way?

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 04:15 PM

Anyone who would piss on St Patrick's Cathedral should be bashed, and bashed good. That's yer gay protestor fer ye

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 04:15 PM

"Drink enough of the dark stuff and you'll start seeing the snakes again "

The "dark stuff" actually has less alcohol (Guinness Draught - 4.0)than Budweiser (5.0) and fewer calories as well!

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 04:32 PM

"...worried about racial stereotyping..."

WTF???

Who said anything about race?

It doesn't worry me, it depresses me. Why should any culture be reduced to this sort of banal, unimaginative, mean-spirited stereotyping?

Answer: it makes assholes feel good about themselves by putting others down.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,Dave'sWife
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 05:25 PM

My own personal pet peeve about St. Patrick's Day and regular americans remembering this time of year that I'm Irish:

If one more person asks me if I'm cooking Corned beef on the 17th I think I'm gonna smash 'em in the head with my cast iron frying pan. Does anyone know where this idea that Corned Beef was Irish got started? I'll be making lamb stew, thankyou, and apple dumplings.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 05:28 PM

Not to mention, presuming you consume corned beef on a particular day of the year because you are Irish, is an affront to Irish vegetarians everywhere.

But hey--let's not burst that stereotypical "being Irish" bubble.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 05:28 PM

"Does anyone know where this idea that Corned Beef was Irish got started? "

Yes, and there might have been a thread about this.

As an Irish-AMERICAN, you should not feel upset with this dish. It is truly an IRISH-AMERICAN dish and perfectly acceptable for St. Patrick's Day here in the states.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Windsinger
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 05:48 PM

Dave's Wife,

Stateside, corned beef is what replaced boiling-bacon as the traditional cut of meat to be served in Irish cabbage dishes.

It simply happened because Irish-Americans found out they could get ahold of corned beef more cheaply.

Slán,

~Fionn

www.geocities.com/children_of_lir

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Peace
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 06:27 PM

Apple Dumplings? Would you be so kind as to message the recipe or even post it here? I love apple dumplings and I haven't had any really good ones since my grandmother died in 1967.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 07:42 PM

do Americans get Fray Bentos corned beef, or is it made from all that beef that you see in the cowboy films?

as for us being nasty to the iRish. They DO have a lot of drinking songs in their national folksong repertoire and they Do make the best whisky and beer in the world - famous all over the world. people are going to take note of these facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 08:05 PM

Yes, and of course the Irish are the only people in the world with a lot of drinking songs in their national repertoire.

Ditto, the only people in the world who produce popular alcoholic beverages.

Of course, that makes the stereotyping OK. Thanks for setting me straight.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,Dave'sWife
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 10:01 PM

Ron olesko - American-born Irish don't call themsleves Irish-American unless their families have more than 2 generations born here - at least that's the arbitary divding line I grew up with in NYC. MY father is a dual-citizen of the USA and ROI. Therefore, I am Irish. Now, in other cities, maybe anyone born here is Irish-AMERICAN. We just wouldn't use the term unless we were describing folks whose families came over before the 1920s. I think it may also have to do with how assimilated your family is or was.

Under some interesting program The ROI has going right now for certain much needed professions, I could reverse emmigrate if I wanted to and be entitled to all manner of nifty aid were I willing to go back to teaching. The shortage of qualified Irish workers is such in the current strong economy there this program was created. I have often tried to sell this to my husband but he's having none of it. Maybe I'll bring it up again on St. Patricks day!



Peace - apple dumplings:

Tell me, what do YOU consider apple dumplings? Mine are whole peeled apples, cored, filled with butter, spices and nuts and then wrapped up in pastry and baked. is that your idea of a dumpling or did you think I meant American style like fritters? ( I can do those too!)

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 10:10 PM

As an American of Irish ancestry, I view the word "Irish" as meaning a person born in Ireland, or an Irish national. Just as I would with "Japanese" or "Welsh".

The very recent tendency of Americans to hybridize their identity, by using their ancestry hyphenated with the word "American" I've always thought an odd way of distinguishing one's self as "not mainstream WASP".

That said, growing up, when someone asked me "what I was" I never had any problem figuring out what they were asking--it was either my ancestry or my religion.

Just for the record--it wasn't nearly as trendy to be of Irish ancestry and a Catholic in the US prior to the 90s Irish fads.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 10:19 PM

Daves wife, you make very good observations and I am sure that people are entitled to call themselves whatever they like. Sometimes I refer to myself as Polish or Czech, but I am third generation. Technically, if you are born in this country or have citizenship, you are American - but I do understand your point.

The point I would like to bring up with about the simple dish of corned beef and cabbage is that it should be part of a St. Patrick's Day celebration here in the United States, and probably Canada too. As Windsinger pointed out, it replace boiling bacon here in the United States. Irish immigrants who came over to this country could either not get boiling bacon, or more often, could only afford the tougher cut of meet which was corned beef.   The fact that they could turn it into a such a tasty dish is a testament to their perseverence and a reminder of how much they brought to this country. When I eat my corned beef, I do feel that I am celebrating a proud heritage and spirit of our immigrant past. Perhaps that is why "everyone's Irish" on St. Patrick's Day. Most of us share the immigrant experience in our family history so I look at the day as a way of saying "thanks" for everything they brought to form this countries culture.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 10:21 PM

"The very recent tendency of Americans to hybridize their identity"

You are 100% wrong there. This is nothing new. This nation has always remembered it's roots as well as support the U.S.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 10:29 PM

True, but the hyphenating of ancestry with nationality is new.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,**B**
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 10:34 PM

Níl gach uile fhánaí caillte!

I lay the blame on Riverdance, Lord of the Dance and Enya...(half joking!)

The first St Patrick's Day parade was in 1737 in Boston.
It has grown to be what it is in America.There is no changing back the Clock!
Surely tis better to celebrate being of Irish decent than to hide it!
I really think that your comments Guest are just a bit bitter.

America is a new Land in many ways. Built and founded by Immigrants.
To say your Irish American is to me saying were your roots lie that's all.

People should be left to do their pleasing when it comes to celebrating their Irish Ancestry. To belittle people because they wish to celebrate St Patrick's day no matter who they are or where they are from is mean spirited.

Fill ar do dhúchas

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 11:26 PM

Well really now, why would everyone want to be Irish anyway?

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Peace
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 12:12 AM

"Tell me, what do YOU consider apple dumplings?"

THANK YOU for the recipe. That's it! Wow. Question for you Dave's Wife, if you don't mind. What kind of pasty do you use?

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 12:47 AM

Read my somewhat irish American lips....I do not give a rat's ass what they think of us in Ireland. Not one whit. Let them do what they want over there. What we as irish Americans forgive the hyphenation or lack of it do is an Irish American holiday. i don't care what songs they sing in ireland, what beer they drink, whether or not they color their rivers green. it is or used to be before (a) the irish themslves and (b) everyone else ruined it my favorite day of the year. I don't have people to celebrate with and thre is really no point unles most of them are cut from the samecloth...but if I did I would be singing who threw the overalls in Mrs. Murphy's chowder and Molly Malone and especially the kerry dancers....for th last and final time it does not matter what they sing in Ireland..does not matter....d you finally get it???????? mg

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 12:49 AM

p.s. when you make fun of us and I bet you would even make fun of my shamrock that you press a button and it little green lights flashing you insult our ancesters, which you may or may not realize had extremely difficult lives, and how anyone not of their culture could feel free to make fun of the pitiful amount of pleasure they might ahve obtained by singing irish eyes are smiling is just plain mean. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: michaelr
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 01:42 AM

Jaysus, lad, sure and why don't ya feckin tell us how ya really feel?

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 07:55 AM

so YOU set us straight. What aspect of Irishness would YOU like emphasised, so all of us uncool people will empathise with your nation in an unstereotypical and acceptable manner.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 08:05 AM

The list is pretty long, actually. From textiles to archaeology to literature to music to history to environmental movements to religion to maritime museums...

Not all that difficult, really. And not one of them has to do with green beer and shamrocks.

MG, I don't begrudge you or other Irish Americans the day or the songs or anything like that. I am just depressed by the focus on drunkeness, and the demeaning stereotypes that go along with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Windsinger
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 09:03 AM

Honestly, most of the wankerish behavior comes from Americans of non-Irish descent, who have only observe the holiday because it's an excuse to get shitfaced by piggybacking off of someone else's ethnic pride. (Ex: What other reason do my Polish, Italian or Korean neighbors have to feel compelled to celebrate this particular holiday?)

A similar situation arises over Cinco de Mayo -- a day which most Mexicans could give a hoot about.

Having said that, you might find that a surprising amount of Amerians of Irish descent ARE in touch with their roots, and respectably and intelligently so. (And yes, some of us were so WELL before the fads of the 90's.)

Remember, the 17th only became a raging big deal in the States because of homesick immigrants and their offspring. Being that the Irish made up an enormous segment of the immigrant population in this coutry, it is not surprising that the phenomenon snowballed to its current size.

I can understand some eyeball-rolling at thematic cheesiness from people who don't "get it"...but for those of us who DO, kindly let us hoist a pint in peace?

Beannachtaí na Féile Pádraig oraibh (in advance).

~Fionn

www.geocities.com/children_of_lir

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 09:31 AM

"What other reason do my Polish, Italian or Korean neighbors have to feel compelled to celebrate this particular holiday?"

See my comments earlier. It isn't about drinking or an excuse to get shitfaced. It is a celebration of a heritage that has offered a great deal to the fabric of our culture.   The drinking is overstated by the media.

If pride can't be shared, it isn't worth having.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Paul Burke
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 09:41 AM

Cinco de Mayo? There's me thinking it was Cuatro de Galway.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Alba
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 09:55 AM

LOL Paul or even Cuatro de Ennis!!:)

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 10:08 AM

I guess Prossies/Pagans/et alia shouldn't be allowed to send hearts and flowers on St. Valentine's day, not being Catholic and all. Making such a mockery of it all.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 10:21 AM

A work in progress,,,,


The sun rose bright and clear today,
A brisk March wind straight up Broadway,
Pipes and drums sound pure and clear,
Plastic darbies, cold green beer,
Marching on me merry way,
See the Bud Girls on display,
Willy Yeats has gone away,
Hoist 'yer glass it's Paddy's day.


Near McSorley's crowded bar,
I sang 'em " Johnson's Motor Car",
Green lines painted in the street,
Boiled cabbage, pickled meat,
Played 'em one by Christie Moore,
" Ah, the red-haired actress, sure"
Tommy Davis begorrah s'gone away,
Hoist 'yer glass it's Paddy's day.

Put 'em out on your green lawns,
The auld tricolor, leprechauns,
Be a pal and watch me back,
All I miss is Captain Jack,
Sang one more, " The Foggy Dew",
Two o' clock me day was through,
Brendan Behan sure he's gone away,
Hoist 'yer glass it's Paddy's day.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Windsinger
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 10:31 AM

Kat, quite the opposite. ;)

As with a few other holidays, the Catholics yoinked St. Val's from the pagan Romans (it used to be a pretty raunchy fertility festival called "Lupercal") in order to absorb and make it "safe."

It was the Victorians who really started going nuts with the hearts and the flowers.

The Cathlolic Church removed St. Val's from the calendar as an official religious holiday back in the late 60's, so I imagine it's currently up for grabs.

Slán,

~Fionn

www.geocities.com/children_of_lir

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 10:40 AM

The Roman festival was called Lupercalia. Lupercal is the cave where Romulus and Remus were found.