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Origins:Deportees-seeking original Woody recording

DigiTrad:
DEPORTEES


Related threads:
New Info About Woody Guthrie's Deportee (31)
Looking for a particular recording of 'Deportees' (50)
(origins) Origin: Plane Wreck At Los Gatos (background) (44)
happy? – Jan 29 (Los Gatos crash) (12)
ADD: The Grape Pickers Tragedy (Jack Warshaw) (8)
song challenge: deportees/illegal migrants (6)
W. Guthrie's Deportees: meaning? (57) (closed)
(origins) Origins: was Deportees based on Bold Robert Emmet (13)
oranges and creosote (10) (closed)


GUEST,karen 04 Oct 01 - 06:29 PM
Suffet 04 Oct 01 - 08:56 PM
Deckman 04 Oct 01 - 10:42 PM
catspaw49 04 Oct 01 - 11:23 PM
Joe Offer 05 Oct 01 - 03:26 AM
Genie 06 Oct 01 - 01:53 AM
catspaw49 28 Feb 02 - 09:56 AM
GUEST,GUEST, Foe 28 Feb 02 - 01:39 PM
catspaw49 28 Feb 02 - 02:36 PM
GUEST,Guest 28 Feb 02 - 03:13 PM
jup 28 Feb 02 - 04:21 PM
catspaw49 28 Feb 02 - 04:58 PM
jup 01 Mar 02 - 02:12 AM
Joe Offer 01 Mar 02 - 02:30 AM
GUEST,Porky 15 Jul 03 - 11:40 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 13 Dec 04 - 07:59 PM
GUEST,TMorgan001@aol.com 24 Jan 06 - 06:49 PM
Wolfgang 27 Jan 06 - 01:22 PM
Wolfgang 27 Jan 06 - 01:44 PM
GUEST,jOhn 24 Apr 09 - 07:02 PM
GUEST,jOhn 24 Apr 09 - 07:12 PM
12-stringer 24 Apr 09 - 07:33 PM
GUEST,Kegan 19 May 09 - 07:58 PM
GUEST 19 May 09 - 08:17 PM
Declan 20 May 09 - 08:35 PM
GUEST 21 May 09 - 03:25 PM
GUEST,Doc John 21 May 09 - 04:25 PM
GUEST,Bob Coltman 21 May 09 - 05:15 PM
GUEST,Bob Coltman 21 May 09 - 05:52 PM
GUEST,Peter Glazer 19 Feb 10 - 10:35 AM
EBarnacle 19 Feb 10 - 11:08 AM
Joe Offer 24 Dec 11 - 07:42 PM
GUEST,999 24 Dec 11 - 10:03 PM
bobad 24 Dec 11 - 10:53 PM
Big Mick 25 Dec 11 - 12:37 AM
Joe Offer 25 Dec 11 - 01:07 AM
BrooklynJay 25 Dec 11 - 11:08 AM
GUEST 25 Dec 11 - 01:20 PM
Mark Ross 25 Dec 11 - 01:47 PM
GUEST,Diane 25 Dec 11 - 02:02 PM
Greg B 25 Dec 11 - 03:18 PM
DianeV 25 Dec 11 - 09:32 PM
Charley Noble 25 Dec 11 - 10:59 PM
DianeV 25 Dec 11 - 11:57 PM
skarpi 26 Dec 11 - 09:51 AM
dick greenhaus 26 Dec 11 - 11:17 AM
DianeV 28 Dec 11 - 03:48 PM
DianeV 03 Jan 12 - 04:27 PM
Joe Offer 21 Mar 12 - 01:47 AM
Mark Clark 21 Mar 12 - 10:35 AM
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Subject: RE: Deportees
From: GUEST,karen
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 06:29 PM

Thanks Joe...so, about 15 hours total.? Paints a bleak picture from any angle. In your post after the much appreciated information you comment on the "some of us." I always took that to be where Woody's mind expanded out to the 'greater picture'. At first he is focused on only the ones involved in the plane crash but in this verse he is thinking on all the ones he's met along the way and identifies himself with. I thought I read or watched documentation that Woody spent some time as a picker, in the migratory tent camps in his younger days?
Sounds like you had a lot of good to go with the bad in your career. That's good so that as McGrath says, things balance out. I tend to wonder how people that get locked into the negative with no variance are able to stay sane. I agree that we can't overlook the bad but we also can't let it steal the good from us. S'pose we will ever find the good medium? Seems to me that everytime people try (and I know lots of people do try) the thing gets more tangled, the deeper they go, and the results are so frustratingly limited in the end that it causes premature burn-out. I would think it would be particularly hard for persons from other than the US to do that job...there'd be that heavy aspect of wondering what line divided in many instances.


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Subject: RE: Deportees
From: Suffet
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 08:56 PM

When I say I gleaned information regarding Woody Guthrie's "Deportees" from three sources, I mean the following:

1. Joe Offer's posting to the rec.music.folk newsgroup of the New York Times account also posted above, along with his comments.

2. Joe Klein's book, "Woody Guthrie: a Life," pages 362-363 of the paperback edition. Say Mr. Klein: "The song, as he wrote it was virtually without music -- Woody chanted the words -- and wasn't performed publicly until a decade later when a schoolteacher named Martin Hoffman added a beautiful melody and Pete Seeger began singing it it concerts."

3. Personal conversations I have had with Harold Leventhal over the past several years. In one Harold said that Woody might have performed the song, in a near monotone, at a hoot in New York.


Let's all be thankful for Martin Hoffman!


--- Steve


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Subject: RE: Deportees
From: Deckman
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 10:42 PM

Thanks to everyone ... especially Joe. This is what thrills me about MUDCAT. I can't add anything new, but I'm following this thread with great interest. CHEERS, Bob


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Subject: RE: Deportees
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 11:23 PM

Isn't it kind of interesting that what are considered to be some of Woody's best are the ones he had the hardest time putting tunes with or ones he just carried around for awhile? Woody wrote songs right and left and stole more tunes than Willie Sutton did Sawbucks and yet this one and "TLIYL" and "Pastures" and a few others he sat on for quite awhile. I dunno' whether that means anything or not....just interesting I guess.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Deportees
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 03:26 AM

Good point, Spaw. I have yet to hear the two albums of Woody Guthrie songs that Billy Bragg did. As I understand it, Bragg wrote tunes for a number of Woody Guthrie lyrics that had never been sung. My kids introduced me to Billy Bragg - I'm glad they did.

I spent the afternoon at the library, and I found three more articles from the Sacramento Union and the Sacramento Bee - it made the front pages of those newspapers on January 28 and 29, 1948. On January 30, the papers were full of stories about Gandhi's assassination.

The articles confirmed that the crash took place in Los Gatos Canyon, outside Coalinga, California. I'll post the articles when I can - I don't think Mr. Scanner can read them, so I'll have to type them.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Deportees
From: Genie
Date: 06 Oct 01 - 01:53 AM

BTW,
I didn't catch this in the responses above, so let me mention that the travelling Smithsonian Woody Guthrie exhibit (which, I think, has been held over in Tacoma, WA) through the end of this year), has Woody's original first-draft manuscipt of this song, hand printed in pen in a lined notebook. Somewhere I have that version, as I copied it down at the museum.

Genie

P.S.
I can't help thinking of this song when I hear reports of plane crashed in which famous people die along with others. For example, when the singer Aliyah (sp?) was killed recently, I heard numerous news reports, all of which said things like, "...Aliyah and [8?] other passengers and crew were killed... ."

One might sing, "You won't have a name when you crash with a pop star... ."


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Subject: RE: Deportees-lyrics correction
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 09:56 AM

Say Joe, once again exploring this thread because of a current one, I was reading more closely your set of lyrics to correct the DT and comparing notes, so to speak. Looks good, except for the last two lines in the first verse. I think the lines are:
They're flying you back to the Mexico border
To pay all your money to wade back again


The real difference is in that my lines which I use (and got from Arlo's version) are in the same story mode as the song....Could be wrong and not a big deal....Just happened to notice it.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Deportees
From: GUEST,GUEST, Foe
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 01:39 PM

In 1961 I went to Tucson AZ to grad school at UA and ended working for a while at the Park Theater on Campbell (long gone as UA expanded) The manager, Jerry, a law student and also folk music lover, told me his friend Martin Hoffman wrote the music to Deportees. I met Martin once at Jerry's house where Martin played tapes of Navajo children reading from english textbooks. He taught on the reservation and the tape was made in September after the kids got back to school after spending the summer only speaking Navajo. Later Martin's wife left him and Martin did himself in. I heard Judy Collins sing a song that she wrote to Martin with the words something like, "Martin, if I had only known." Her tribute to him.


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Subject: Lyr Add: SONG FOR MARTIN (Judy Collins)
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 02:36 PM

Hi Guest......What you're thinking about is "Song for Martin"...It's a beautiful song, quite painful, but too personal to be covered well by anyone else.


SONG FOR MARTIN
Words and Music by Judy Collins
Universal Music Corp. (ASCAP)/ Rocky Mountain National Park Music, Inc. (ASCAP)
(Administered by Universal Music Corp.)

In Rough Rock, Arizona he lived for many years alone
A gangly kid from Colorada, who could sing the sweetest songs
I first heard Woody's songs from him in a cabin in the snow
Seems like it was yesterday but it was years and years ago

He moved to Arizona in nineteen sixty-one
Got a job at the Indian school - he was livin' in the sun
My life was movin' fast by now, I was always on the run
My country life was far behind and the circus had begun

Marty, I know it got lonely out there
Coyotes cryin' at midnight in the cold desert air
The heart that sorrow broke in you can never be repaired
Mart, I know I let you down somewhere

I knew that me and Marty, we should have been good friends
I always knew the paths we walked were meant to cross again
We talked on the telephone once or twice a year
His voice was so familiar, his memory was clear

I'll never know what brought him to where he finally stood
A shotgun pointed at his head in a cabin in the woods
But somehow I could hear it, it struck my heart as well
For the unknown man who needs a hand
For the friend I'll never know

Marty, I know it got lonely out there
Coyotes cryin' at midnight in the cold desert air
The heart that sorrow broke in you can never be repaired
Mart, I know I let you down somewhere


Spaw


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Subject: RE: Deportees
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 03:13 PM

I second Deckman. I want to thank all of the people in this thread. I do not play or sing, but listen and appreciate. Appreciation is not understanding however, and that is what you all have. You, and the song in discussion along with Mudcat have brought me closer to a better level of humanity. Thanks.

P.S. The Byrds version was one of the first I heard back four decades. Also, I have the Billy Bragg/Wilco CD's and they are quite good and provide some insight into the craft; Of course Bragg and Wilco are good in their own right(write)


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Subject: RE: Deportees
From: jup
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 04:21 PM

Great thread,everyone.

I am motivated to learn this song,it is ,like a lot of folk music, still apropriate today.

CAN I HAVE THE CORDS PLEASE.

THANKS,JUP.


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Subject: Chords Add: DEPORTEE (Woody Guthrie)
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 04:58 PM

VERSE:
         E                                  A                E
    The crops are all in and the peaches are rotting
         (E)                               A          E
    The oranges piled in their creosote dumps
            A                                     E
    They're flying them back to the Mexican border
                (E)                      A                E
    To pay all their money, to wade back again


CHORUS:
         A                   E      
    Goodbye to my Juan, good-bye Rosalita
       B7                        E                   E7         
    Adios mes amigos, Jesus and Maria
         A                                              E
    You won't have your names when you ride the big airplane
                                             A       E
    All they will call you will be deportee

Or whatever key you like....Throw in a few bass runs and you're all set.

Spaw



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Subject: RE: Deportees
From: jup
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 02:12 AM

Thanks,Spaw, I'll give it a run tonight,I have a CD with it on around here someplace. Jup.


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Subject: RE: Deportees
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 02:30 AM

Hi, spaw - I wondered about the Mexico/Mexican question, too. Cisco Houston sings it "Mexico border," and that's the way I prefer to sing it. I can't recall where I got the text above - I believe it was one of the Sing Out! reprints. Genie has promised to post her transcription of an early Woody version of the lyrics. Maybe her transcription will give us an answer. I sent her a personal message to remind her.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Deportees
From: GUEST,Porky
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 11:40 PM

OK, I think some of you are taking this a little too seriously... I realize this conversation has gone on for five years, so I thought I'd add an entry for 2003.
As for the content of the newspaper article, I've read so many versions that edit out various parts, it's hard to tell what's what. In any case, although the AP article doesn't mention LG Canyon by name, one doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to have a look at a map (I'm assuming Woody had these in 1948) and see what's to the west of Fresno. Woody being who he was, maybe he didn't need a map... perhaps he was familiar with the area... Fresno County is the breadbasket of California. Also, just because Woody wrote "the radio said...." absolutely does not mean that was his source of info... c'mon guys, there's a number of musicians here, anyone consider artistic license? For all we know, someone told him about this over a pool table. Woody wrote for the common man, and in terms the common man understood. I don't think he spent a heck of a lot of time picking nits.
In modern times, that bus ride from Oakland to the border (Mexico, Mexican... who cares?? Do you sing the exact same thing every time you do a song? I don't...) is about 10 hours... in 1948 it probably would have been an overnighter, with that stop in Bakersfield. However, even that is luxurious in comparison to what these people went through in order to get here in the first place.
This is one of my favorite all time songs, it sends a powerful message about the plight of the migrant farm worker, and it's hard to believe that this is 55 years old; it could have been written yesterday. Bruce Springsteen sings what could be considered the sequel to this song in "Sinaloa Cowboys."
Oh, yeah, and "rottning" just sounds illiterate, I've only found one transcription that used that word, and there were other blatant errors in it.
Thanks to Joe for a lot of good info, if he's still around.


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Subject: RE: Deportees
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 13 Dec 04 - 07:59 PM

On this months copy of Uncut music magazine, their is a free CD , that includes Deportees, it's sung by UK folk singer Billy Bragg, it is the first time that it has been released on CD.
Free CD also includes tracks by
Douglas Ritter
Josh Ritter
Warren Zevon
Tom Ovans
Richie Havens
John Prine
Buddy Miller
and Steve Goodman etc
Uncut magazine is £4 and worth it, just for the free CD!
if your local magazine place doesent sell it, try WH Smiths.


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Subject: RE: Deportees
From: GUEST,TMorgan001@aol.com
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 06:49 PM

I am interested in this thread if anyone has more information about the crash itself.

I'm doing some research on Public Aircraft safety, and have been having trouble finding more than the article mentioned above. If anyone has any active links to newspaper articles or to an accident report it would help considerably.

I would be most interested in the type of aircraft, and especially the reason it crashed if a cause of the accident was determined.

I was unable to find an accident report, which is not a surprise if it was flying as a public aircraft. Until 1994, the NTSB (or its predicessors) were not required or expected to investigate accidents on aircraft flown by federal, state or local governments.


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Subject: RE: Deportees
From: Wolfgang
Date: 27 Jan 06 - 01:22 PM

From this site (accident dated 29th of Jan 1948, Fresno, even the number of casualties is correct, so it must be this one):

Douglas DC3, Registration NC36480

With that information I could find a better description:

here

I'm not completely sure but I think that's it.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Deportees
From: Wolfgang
Date: 27 Jan 06 - 01:44 PM

I think in this case, c&p from that site is interesting enough:

Douglas DC-3 NC79055, certificated for 32 passengers, had been scheduled for the flight. The crew however took NC36480 by accident, certificated for 26 passengers and 7 hours overdue for a 100-hour inspection. The flight to Oakland was uneventful. At Oakland, 28 passengers boarded the DC-3, leaving three of them sitting on luggage without seat belts. While en route at 5000 feet, the no. 1 engine caught fire. Following an explosion, the left wing, including the engine, separated from the fuselage. The aircraft crashed out of control.
It appeared that the gasket in the engine driven left fuel pump was broken and the 4 studs holding the castings of the pump together were loose. Under pressure, gasoline probably sprayed from the pump, then being ignited by the exhaust. The aircraft was carrying Mexican deportees and a US Immigration & Naturalization Service guard.

PROBABLE CAUSE: "The Board determines that the probable cause of this accident was the failure of the left wing in flight as a result of damage by fire which had its source in a defective left engine driven fuel pump."


Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 24 Apr 09 - 07:02 PM

Wikipedia has a page on this, it mentions the creosote dumps, and says the price of fruit was kept artificially high, by spoiling surplus crops, seems a shame that excess fruit could not be given to the poor instead of been poisoned with creosote.

we had similar situation in Europe a few years ago, were farmers were paid to destroy surplus crops, not sure if this still happens.


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 24 Apr 09 - 07:12 PM

The woody Guthrie recording is available for free on Spotify.


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: 12-stringer
Date: 24 Apr 09 - 07:33 PM

The Hootenanny mag that was published in 1963/4 (the one that Robert Shelton was connected with) had an article by John Greenway in its 2nd or 3rd issue, about Woody's last active years. No idea where my copy is (it's the only one I still have), but I'm pretty sure that in the article Greenway speaks of having heard a (taped?) performance of the song by Woody which came (he might have said "eerily") close to the melody later written by Hoffman.

My memory of this is fuzzy, as I haven't looked at that article in a good 35 years, if not longer. Did Greenway publish the lyrics in American Folksongs of Protest?


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking different folk recording
From: GUEST,Kegan
Date: 19 May 09 - 07:58 PM

I just wanted to jump in off-topic for a second. I've read this thread from top to bottom, and am amazed at the fact that it's gone on for twelve years.

I'm looking for a particular version of the song that opened with a male singer reading part of the AP article. I think the group had a woman in it as well. I heard it a few years ago on YouTube, but it's been removed I guess.

Possible help is appreciated, thanks.
Kegan


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 09 - 08:17 PM

There have been versions of this song recorded by Christy Moore, who does his usual great job but who leaves bits out and changes words here and there, and by Rory McCleod, who, in my opinion, did a wonderful version. The latter was on a tribute to Woody Guthrie vinyl album with contributions by various luminaries. My vinyl is long-fossilised so I can't be specific, but the Rory McCleod is well worth a listen.


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: Declan
Date: 20 May 09 - 08:35 PM

By pure coincidence my MP3 player shuffled around to the Arlo version from "Together in Concert" recorded with Pete seeger as mentioned by Joe in a post not too far above this but a long time ago. Having read the thread earlier today I paid particular attention to Arlo's lyrics. He definitely sings Rotting at the end of the first line, not rotten or rottnin'.

I recently got a copy of a CD Called Classic Folk Music from Smithsonian Folkways which features Deportees sung by Barbara Dane, among many other tracks. The liner notes say that the song was "written down by Woody Guthrie, but never recorded by him".
I'm not saying this is definitive, but you would imnagine if there was a recoring by Woody that Folkways would be aware of the fact.


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: GUEST
Date: 21 May 09 - 03:25 PM

How did I change from Steve Shaw to Guest? Advice welcome!


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 21 May 09 - 04:25 PM

Woody Guthrie recorded some 200 titles for his music publisher, The Richmond Organisation, in the late 1940's and it is possible that 'Deportees' was one of them; this needs further research. Only one of these titles has been released - 'I've Got To Know'. It is possible that he shows the signs of his developing illness on the recordings.
Yes, 12-stringer it is in Greenaway's book - composed Feb 3rd 1948.
It seems that although Woody Guthrie's diction and motor coordination were beginning to fail, he could still composed excellent long and strong ballads.
Doc John


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 21 May 09 - 05:15 PM

I can add a tiny piece to the puzzle.

I never knew Martin Hoffman personally, but in 1959 when I was traveling in the west with Brigger (Bill Briggs), in Colorado I think, someone sang us "Deportee" with Martin Hoffman's tune, together with "Pastures of Plenty," which went to a beautiful major tune, not the one I have heard since. Whether that tune was also Hoffman's, I don't know.

It's true that the tune as now familiar is essentially like, though slightly changed from Hoffman's, though I wouldn't know how to say just how they differ.

The person who sang us the two songs said Martin Hoffman was known as "The Roadrunner." I gathered he was secretive and mysterious, and did not get out much. But he was a great seeker-out, I was told, of unusual and out-of-the-way folk material.

One thing I can do is confirm that the timing was earlier than the '60s. Hoffman's Deportee tune was circulating in summer 1959.

I wish I had inquired further at the time, but, you know, in those days I learned everything in passing, on my way to somewhere else. I wish I remembered who sang us those two songs, but I no longer do.

Ever since that summer I've wanted to know more about "The Roadrunner." I never knew Judy Collins had written a song about him, but then, what I was hearing was more in the traditional field recording and oldtime line.

I always honored The Roadrunner for that tune.

Bob


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 21 May 09 - 05:52 PM

I got curious and went looking, and found I had a note after all, telling who sang us those two Guthrie songs.

It was Dick Barker, of Moose, Wyoming (in Jackson Hole). My note says Dick told us he was a friend of Martin Hoffman's.

Dick Barker later became well known as a professional leading rafting trips down the Snake River. Overnight when camping he could always be persuaded to get out his guitar and give his customers a tune.

I still remember Dick fondly—and putting my foot in the mouth of that magnificent bearskin rug on on his living room floor. Didn't chip any teeth, thank goodness.

We had many a songfest that year, one or two at Dick's place, many Teton Tea parties at the Jenny Lake campground, which was in a different place then ... plus under the Moose bridge, which the rangers disliked, and elsewhere up and down the Teton Range. Fun times.

Bob


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: GUEST,Peter Glazer
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 10:35 AM

Here's the basic information, transcribed from the article in the NY Times: " Fresno, California, January 28th, Associated Press. A chartered Immigration Service plane crashed and burned in West Fresno County this morning, killing 28 Mexican deportees, the crew and an immigration guard. The Mexicans were being flown to the Deportation Center in El Centro for return to their country. The plane, southbound from Oakland airport, appeared to explode before it plummeted to the ground. The crew was identified as Frank Atkinson, 32 years old, of Long Beach, the pilot; Mrs. Bobbie Atkinson, his wife, the stewardess, 28, Marion Ewing of Balboa, copilot, 33. The group also included Mexican nationals who entered the United States illegally." Woody addressed the namelessness of the Mexicans in his lyric. I am the person who adapted the musical mentioned below, Woody Guthrie's American Song.


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: EBarnacle
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 11:08 AM

I vaguely remember a Folkways recording of Woodie that included "Deportees." My local library had it back in the '70s.


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Dec 11 - 07:42 PM

Time to refresh this thread. It's a month before the January anniversary of the Plane Wreck at Los Gatos Canyon. I drove through the Coast Range this week, and the mountains are starting to turn the beautiful green they must have been when the deportees crashed there in 1948.

Everybody sorta-kinda remembers Woody singing this song or it being on a recording by Woody, but I still haven't found it. This Smithsonian Folkways search came up dry - and it's supposed to include all Folkways recordings.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Dec 11 - 10:03 PM

Excellent article about it here, Joe.

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/01/30/18475895.php


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: bobad
Date: 24 Dec 11 - 10:53 PM

Some more info here including names of the deportees.


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Dec 11 - 12:37 AM

Let me look around. I swear I had a recording somewhere.....


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Dec 11 - 01:07 AM

I note with some satisfaction that the page from indybay.org quotes my post above...

I would guess that Woody wrote the lyrics in 1948, shortly after reading about the plane crash. As stated above, Woody chanted the lyrics and did not have a particular tune for the song - I think I read that in Joe Klein's biography of Woody. I believe it was 1960 that Martin Hoffman wrote the familiar melody for "Deportees." Woody died in 1967, but I think he stopped performing and recording sometime in the 1950s - anybody have a date for that?

So, as far as I can tell, Woody never recorded the song, but I'm hoping that somebody taped him singing it somewhere.

This song affects me like no other. I guess that's because I worked the Central Valley of California for 30 years. I visited the labor camps and saw their miserable conditions. I visited the Border Patrol offices and the Immigration Detention Centers. I talked with farmworkers in the fields and heard their stories about having to deal with the filth and the heat and the snakes and the lack of water and the backbreaking work. I was a federal investigator driving an air-conditioned car and sleeping in clean motels and eating nice meals, and it embarrassed me to be talking with such nice people who had life so tough. I was also sometimes embarrassed to be working in service to "la Migra" - I was doing security clearances on prospective employees of the Immigration and Naturalization Service.

I once had a need to interview Cesar Chavez, somebody I had idolized since I was in college. He refused to see me, and I suppose he had good reason to refuse to be interviewed by a federal investigator. Still, it was a big disappointment. I suppose he didn't know I was on his side.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: BrooklynJay
Date: 25 Dec 11 - 11:08 AM

After reading through this thread from the beginning, the first thing that occurred to me is that the Woody Guthrie Archives may have the answer. Either Nora Guthrie or Tiffany Colanino might be able to put this matter to rest. I would imagine that if there was an unreleased recording of Deportees extant (I'm thinking Woody's early 1950's tapes), then they would probably know about it.

Jay


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Dec 11 - 01:20 PM

Hi all, I'm Diane, and my membership is pending after I contacted Joe last night. I discovered yesterday that I have the original recording of this song by Martin Hoffman on cassette tape (yes, really, THE original, from my father's collection - Marti Hoffman was his dearest friend), recorded May 22, 1957. Both Martin and my father sang the first line as "the peaches are rott'ning" as Rich described above, and as others have reported, I still can't listen to the song without tears, especially hearing Mart's voice singing it.


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: Mark Ross
Date: 25 Dec 11 - 01:47 PM

Hello Diane, is there any way you can post a link to it so the rest of us can hear it?

Mark Ross


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: GUEST,Diane
Date: 25 Dec 11 - 02:02 PM

Hi Mark,
There will be soon. I'm delivering a bunch of my dad's tapes (cassettes & reel-to-reel) & albums for conversion to digital media tomorrow. The whole project will probably take about a month, and as soon as I have them, I'll figure out how & where to post them. When my membership is activated, I'll post a bunch more info about this particular series of tapes.
Diane


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: Greg B
Date: 25 Dec 11 - 03:18 PM

Here is the official accident report, with the cause. The crew TOOK THE WRONG AIRCRAFT!


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: DianeV
Date: 25 Dec 11 - 09:32 PM

Excerpts from my message to Joe last night, edited for this forum:

The series of four 2-sided cassettes that I have was done sequentially with songs numbered from 1 to 87, in multiple recording sessions, according to the list from October (no date) 1956 to February 19, 1959. They are numbered 1-4, and each is marked in my dad's hand "Mart(Dick)". Mart committed suicide in about 1971, and I don't know about Dick, so don't know if there are any other copies out there anywhere. There is a 2-sided typed page listing the dates and locations of each session with extra information about some of the songs.

Having listened to both recordings of "Deportees" on the first of a series of 4 cassette tapes (it's listed again on tape 2), there is no doubt in my mind that the one marked "1st recording" and recorded on May 22, 1957 in Fort Collins is, indeed, the first version recorded. Mart introduced it on the tape and talked about how he wrote the music. As I listened to it, I kept complaining to my husband that it was too fast, and that it wasn't how I remembered Mart singing it. The second version, recorded in December 1957, is much more as I remember it. I believe the only difference is that the one that "stuck" was at a slower tempo . . . probably not a very good technical description, but sadly, I did not inherit my father's musical talent!

Diane


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Dec 11 - 10:59 PM

Diane-

Nice update.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: DianeV
Date: 25 Dec 11 - 11:57 PM

Thanks Charley! When I figure this site out a bit more, I'll post an image of the typed list to Facebook (need to figure out which Mudcat FB page would be the right place), and will post at least clips of the music when I get it back.

Diane


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: skarpi
Date: 26 Dec 11 - 09:51 AM

Chris Foster does a very good version of this song , .

I tune my guitar down to D tuning as well does Chris ...sounds better
and í use the G chord ....

but thats me ...

Deportees is amazing tune .


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 26 Dec 11 - 11:17 AM

THe tune always struck me as a harmony line for The Rivers of Texas


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: DianeV
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 03:48 PM

OMG - I just found a link to this post by a guest above in this thread while doing more internet research:

Date: 28 Feb 02 - 01:39 PM

In 1961 I went to Tucson AZ to grad school at UA and ended working for a while at the Park Theater on Campbell (long gone as UA expanded) The manager, Jerry, a law student and also folk music lover, told me his friend Martin Hoffman wrote the music to Deportees. I met Martin once at Jerry's house where Martin played tapes of Navajo children reading from english textbooks. He taught on the reservation and the tape was made in September after the kids got back to school after spending the summer only speaking Navajo. Later Martin's wife left him and Martin did himself in. I heard Judy Collins sing a song that she wrote to Martin with the words something like, "Martin, if I had only known." Her tribute to him.

If the person who wrote this is still here - you were at my father's house! Dad returned to Phoenix to practice law. If you are still here, please, please contact me!!!!!


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: DianeV
Date: 03 Jan 12 - 04:27 PM

The discoveries continue! I found an intermediary contact for Dick Barker last week and e-mailed them, and received his phone number and mailing address by e-mail this morning. Assuming (mistakenly) that they had his permission to send me his info, I picked up my phone and called. We had a delighful conversation, and I have forwarded all of the information I had to him.

From our conversation, I learned that I do NOT have the original recording of Deportees . . . Dick has one that was done before the series of recordings that I have.

I have also renewed contact with Mart's niece, who I located shortly after my father's death in 2007.

Both Dick & the Hoffman offspring have rights to Mart's music that supersede mine. I just happen to have the series of tapes that my father preserved, so I have asked for their approval and will wait for their answers before making my digital copies available when I receive them.


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 01:47 AM

I had quite a day today. I visited Pinnacles National Monument in San Benito County, California - climbed through a cave and saw a California Condor. I took the back way out, heading south down California Highway 25 on a leisurely route toward Los Angeles, where I'm due to arrive Thursday. In the middle of nowhere, I noticed a turnoff to "Coalinga Road." I think I saw that turnoff last year when I was in the same area, but paid no attention to it then because I was headed in the opposite direction. This time, I looked at the map and found that the road became Los Gatos Canyon Road as it approached Coalinga.

The sign at the entrance warned me to expect 25 miles of winding road, so I figured it was going to be only 25 miles to Coalinga. I didn't note my mileage until I had gone what I thought was twenty miles, and I drove twenty-five miles after that. I didn't see another vehicle for the first hour, and the road was narrow and full of potholes, showing signs of recent landslides. In several places, the road forded small streams that flowed from the remainder of last week's rain and snow. There was still a dusting of snow on some of the higher mountains that lined the canyon. There were ranches in some places along the road, and even a couple of small communities; and there were other long stretches where there was no sign of human habitation at all.

Even where there were buildings, I didn't see any people. The daylight was fading, and it was getting a bit spooky - and then the road narrowed to one lane. After maybe thirty miles of very treacherous driving, I crossed into Fresno County and the road was pretty good.

Along the way, I saw California quail, and two big flocks of turkeys - maybe 25 turkeys in each flock. I saw a deer, and a long, slinky animal that looked like a weasel. Then I saw a herd of elk in a meadow alongside the road, so I stopped to take pictures. While I was there, I spotted two bald eagles in the trees near the elk.

In the evening sunlight, this forty-mile canyon was spectacular. It was very narrow in places, and the surrounding Coast Range mountains were often very rugged. There weren't too many wildflowers yet, but the grass was green and lush.

Just after I entered Fresno County, I came to "Los Gatos Creek Recreation Area," a facility that looked like a vacation camp with cabins. There was a small community around the recreation area - again, with no people in sight. At the other end of the road, a sign said the recreation area was 16 miles west of Coalinga, so I imagine the plane crash took place just west of the recreation area, in the most desolate area of the road. I didn't see any marker commemorating the crash - just a narrow road in a narrow canyon in a very rugged area. But it was beautiful, breathtakingly beautiful - and teeming with wildlife.

I've wanted to make this drive for years and years. Yes, today was a good day - it was touched with a sweet melancholy, thinking of those people who died in this beautiful, desolate place, just a few months before I was born.

May they rest in peace.

-Joe-

Click here for photos


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Subject: RE: Deportees - seeking original Woody recording
From: Mark Clark
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 10:35 AM

Joe, That is just a wonderful post. Thank you.


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