BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden

Subject: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 09:49 AM

That's the latest buzz.

Seems to good to be true though.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 10:17 AM

Can't we wait until they actually announce?

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 10:17 AM

If McCain is foolish enough to pick Lieberman, I don't even know anybody who would vote for him.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 10:23 AM

Sure we can wait.
We can speculate
while we wait
Wouldn't that be great?

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: pdq
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 10:28 AM

Most Republicans respect Joe Lieberman to some extent based on his patriotism, anti-porn, pro-defence and pro-Israel positions. They also recognize him as a blithering idiot with no executive skills whatesoever. He never worked n the private sector (read: real world) at all. Like "Worthless Willie" Clinton, he went directly into politics (read: the art of twisting the truth). McCain is not stupid. It ain't gonna be Lieberman.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: SharonA
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 10:44 AM

And it ain't gonna be Biden. He's too much of a bigmouth -- can't keep it shut. Don't get me wrong; I admire his outspokenness, but it's not a good trait to bring to the Vice Presidency (and possible Presidency). Not good for international diplomacy.

I read an article yesterday where Biden told reporters that it ain't gonna be him. Sounds like either he's not interested, or he's aware that being on Obama's short list means an honorable mention (or at best an obscure cabinet post that doesn't require diplomatic skills).

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 10:59 AM

McCain-Lieberman has got to be a not starter. Lieberman will not get McCain any appreciable votes...a few liberal hawks if any there be, a few Jewish votes...maybe. His addition to the ticket will alienate hard right voters, so at best it's a wash for McCain.

I don't know what Lieberman's long-term political goals are, or if he has any. But he would almost certainly never again be elected to public office again, if he ran for VP on a split ticket--unless, by some miracle, McCain won.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: C. Ham
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 12:03 PM

McCain's weakest constituency in the Republican base is right-wing, evangelical Christians. His V-P pick will have to satisfy, or at least not alienate them. So it won't be Lieberman who is Jewish and pro-choice.

Biden? Maybe. I have a feeling, though, that we may be in for a big surprise and that it might be Hillary. She's been very, and uncharacteristically, quiet lately.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 12:32 PM

I have this 'feeling' that Obama & his camp are using level 17 diversions to prevent anyone knowing until the moment they are ready.

It really could be a big surprise.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 12:36 PM

Obama/Lugar???

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: Peace
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 12:39 PM

My best guess: Obama/Clinton.

It will 'heal' the rift in the Democratic Party and that lady does know how to campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: MarkS
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 12:53 PM

Hang on a bit

.............. "He never worked n the private sector (read: real world) at all. Like "Worthless Willie" Clinton, he went directly into politics (read: the art of twisting the truth)."..........

The Democrats saw some value in him when they nominated him to run with Gore. I suspect his nomination may bring some otherwise wavering (read: Still Pissed Off about Hillary) Democrats to the Republican column just out of pique!

Mark

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 01:09 PM

I don't see Biden as being a very good choice. I think it would be too easy for the opposition to do to him what they did to Dukakis.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: pdq
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 01:42 PM

"I suspect his nomination may bring some otherwise wavering (read: Still Pissed Off about Hillary) Democrats to the Republican column just out of pique!"

Well, maybe, but it is not clear (to me) whether you mean "people who are mad that Hillary was not nominated" or "people who tired of having Hillary forced down their throats."

I mean this as an honest statement and not a sign of partisan politics: all Republicans and half of all Democrats are so sick of Bill and Hillary Clinton that we'd like to puke.

That is why you have Obama. If Hillary been just another candidate and not "nominee in waiting", many more Democrats would have tried for the nomination. Some much more capable than the small group we saw in the primaries.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 01:43 PM

Obama and Chongo (if he'll accept) would be about perfect. I also predict Big John will resurrect the corpse of Big Dick out of gratitude for his POW release.

Sadly (and I can't believe I'm saying this) the Trickster minus his dark side would be preferable to both of them for President. Hell, even with his dark side! After 8 years of the fuckin' shrub, what's a few more wiretaps and individual liberties.........Ain't much left now anyhow!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: Amos
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 01:46 PM

Oh, Spaw, bite your tongue!!

The reincarnation of Dickie would be a horror, a cheap shriek-film brought to life!! The Vampire In the White House, Return of the Walking Dead President, America Falls to the Zombie or some such thriller title comes to mind.


A

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 02:08 PM

Open the Watergates!

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 03:15 PM

I just read that Lieberman has been scheduled to speak at the Republican convention.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: Amos
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 04:20 PM

White House of Darkside!! Demon-in-Chief!
The Election of the Dead ... ya know I think we're onto something here!!!


A

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 04:24 PM

One big thing to consider when mulling over possible VP selections for either party is this: If the candidate is a sitting congressman and is elected VP, who's going to replace him? With razor thin Democratic majorities in both houses, neither party is going to want a VP candidate whose seat might be given to the other party by gubernatorial appointment or special election. For example, there's absolutely no possibility that Obama is going to select Bill Nelson of Florida, because Florida's Republican governor, Charlie Crist, would get to appoint a replacement for at least the next two years of Nelson's term. That Joe Biden isn't afflicted by a similar problem (Delaware's governor is a Democrat) is a point in his favor.

On the other hand, McCain/Lieberman makes a lot of sense vis-a-vis any Republican attempt to regain control of the Senate. Though technically an independent, Lieberman is counted as a Democrat. If he were to be elected VP, either Connecticut's Republican governor would get to appoint a Republican replacement or a new senator would be elected in a special election, depending upon the provisions of that state's constitution.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 05:04 PM

The strangest thing about the Lieberman possibility is that every time I've heard him mentioned as a possible VP in the next sentence there is this pronouncement that if Leibermen is picked then McCain will promise, if elected, to serve just one term... Waht the heck is that all about??? Ya reckon that McCain thinks that if he has Lieberman as VP the two of them will stink up the loint in so bad in 4 years that no one on earth will want any more of either of them???

This is some purdy stupid thinkin' on McCain's part...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 05:46 PM

Yeah, if McCain promises to serve only one term, that's practically the same as admitting that he's unfit to serve two terms. And if he's unfit to serve two terms, people will wonder, is he even fit to serve one? Nah, McCain would be shooting himself in the foot to say that. I think he's too smart for that (or his advisors are).

Not all rumors are true, and not all are false, either. Some of them are "trial balloons" meant to gauge public reaction before something is formally announced and it becomes too late to take it back. If public reaction was bad, they will say "It's just a rumor—no truth to it at all."

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 09:50 PM

Olberman story

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 12:01 AM

It amazes me that the media is taking seriously the possibility that Lieberman is the Republican pick. Between McCain being 72 years old and Lieberman's 66 years, where's the balance? Even Reagan chose a much younger running mate. When it came his turn, of course, GHW Bush chose a young, vacuous, pretty face which was pretty amazing in itself.

On the news tonight they said that Lieberman could bring some voters into the fold who don't trust McCain.

Obama/Biden would suit me very well. Biden is the same age as Lieberman but he would balance Obama's age and lack of hands-on experience; Biden has been on many a fact-finding and funding committee. He is well traveled and has met many world leaders. And Biden is a known quantity; he is long since vetted. As for being mouthy- we need someone who knows the score and is not afraid to call people on it.

There are others in the Democratic party who would suit me as well, so I won't be too disappointed if Biden doesn't get -and accept - the nod. What I like to dwell on is the likelihood that Obama will surround himself with knowledgeable, capable, even brilliant, people.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 12:20 AM

Another name being floated as McCain's possible running mate is Rep. Eric Cantor of Virginia.

This article appeared in this week's edition of a prominent Orthodox Jewish publucation.




   

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Eric Cantor: He's Young, He's Conservative, He's against Dividing Jerusalem, and John McCain's Considering Him for VP
by Susan Rosenbluth,
Editor, Jewish Voice and Opinion

August 2008

The news that Rep Eric Cantor (R-VA), the House chief deputy minority whip, has been asked for his family, health, and financial documents by the presumptive Republican Presidential candidate, John McCain, with an eye towards vetting him as a possible running mate, has excited not only some in the Jewish community. Many right-wing Evangelicals, sometimes referred to as the Republican core or base, say the Jewish Mr. Cantor may be the only possible running mate Mr. McCain can choose that will get them to the polling stations in November rather than spend Election Day fishing.

"He would energize the Republican base," said another member of the Virginia Congressional delegation, Rep Virgil Goode (R-VA). Like many Republicans, Mr. Goode has advised Mr. McCain to "look right and not left" when he picks a running mate.

Mr. Goode said that by choosing Mr. Cantor, Mr. McCain could staunch the flow of conservatives deciding either to support Libertarian presidential candidate Bob Barr, or not to vote at all.

"We need some enthusiasm with the conservative base," said Mr. Goode.

Hawkish on Israel

A stalwart conservative who happens to be the only Jewish Republican in the House of Representatives, Mr. Cantor, a fourth-term Congressman, represents Virginia's seventh district, a mixture of state capital and western Virginia conservatism.

Reputed on Capitol Hill to be "squeaky clean," he has a nearly 100 percent rating by the National Conservative Union, but is still reported to do well with the more moderate wing of the Republican party as well with Democrats.

His views on Israel and its struggle against Palestinian terror are among the most hawkish in Congress. He has sponsored legislation that would cut off all US taxpayer aid to the PA until they put a halt to unauthorized excavations on the Temple Mount.

Sole Undivided J'lem

He also supports keeping Jerusalem as the sole, undivided capital of Israel. In a recent talk for a program called "One Jerusalem," called as a protest against the Annapolis summit last fall at which the Olmert government indicated its willingness to divide the city, Mr. Cantor characterized Jerusalem as "not merely the capital of Israel, but the spiritual capital of Jews and Christians everywhere."

"It is the site of the First and Second Temples, which housed the Holy of Holies, and it's the direction in which we Jews face when we pray. This glorious City of David is bound to the Jewish people by an undeniable 3,000-year historical link," he said, adding that Jerusalem "is Israel's lifeblood."

"No one understands this better than Israel's enemies. That is precisely why they still engage in a systematic campaign to erase the historical link of the Jews to this great city. For if Israel were severed from Jerusalem, the Jewish state would lose its sense of legitimacy and its will to fight. Only then could Israel be destroyed," he said.

Victim of Terror

When he discusses victims of terror, his sympathy is not just theoretical. In April 2006, his cousin, Daniel Cantor Wultz, a 16-year-old student at the David Posnack Hebrew Day School in Plantation, FL, was the victim of an Islamic Jihad suicide bombing in Tel Aviv.

Daniel was in Israel with his family for Passover. He was hospitalized for almost a month after the bombing, while thousands of Jews throughout the world prayed for him and 46 of his classmates traveled to be at his bedside. He died of his injuries on May 15.

Conservatives say there is no denying that Mr. Cantor's faith and passionate defense of Israel have played a major role in winning their admiration.

Not McCain

In many ways, Mr. Cantor is everything Mr. McCain is not. Those who worry that Mr. McCain, at 72, seems old, especially when compared to 47-year-old Barack Obama, see the good looking Mr. Cantor, who is only 45, as a spark of fresh air.

Those who are concerned because Mr. McCain's record on immigration and free speech during political campaigns (masquerading as campaign reform), have made conservatives wary, say Mr. Cantor's record could make up for a multitude of Mr. McCain's "maverick sins."

On a political website discussing possible Republican candidates for vice president, one blogger summer it up this way: "Cantor is a real conservative who is a star. He is amazing. He would fire me up to have him on the ticket."

Popular Candidate

He has been doing just that in his district in Virginia. In four elections, he has never received less than 64 percent of the vote.

This month, Mr. Cantor received the second-highest number of votes—behind only Mitt Romney—when the National Journal polled three dozen Republican Congressmen and Senators on whom they would like to see as Mr. McCain's running mate.

Last May, when President George Bush spoke in Israel to congratulate the Jewish State on its 60th anniversary, the influential Richard Land of the Southern Baptist Convention told several members of the American delegation that he would like to see Mr. Cantor as vice-president.

Mr. Land called Mr. Cantor "rock-solid on social issues," which is a huge concern for Christian conservatives, especially with Mr. McCain and his reputation as "maverick" at the top of the ticket.

Terrorism Expert

In addition to Mr. Cantor's leadership responsibilities as deputy whip, the highest appointed position in the House, he has served on the House International Relations Committee and currently holds a seat on the powerful House Ways and Means Committee.

For several years, he has served as chairman of the Congressional Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare. The task force is a coalition of Congressmen and Senators who study the threats posed to the US by international terrorism and develop policy proposals and legislative recommendations regarding the fight against terror.

His experience on the task force has made him one of the strongest voices in Congress on national defense and homeland security. He is recognized as an authority on radical Islam and ways to combat it.

Successful Fundraising

Equally important to many Republican insiders, he also serves as Finance Chairman for the National Republican Congressional Committee, where he leads the effort to raise money for House Republicans in the 2008 election cycle.

It is not surprising that he has been asked to retain this position. In 2006, he was asked to raise $21 million for House Republicans, and, instead, he brought in $30 million, making him the single most productive Republican fundraiser in the House of Representatives.

He has developed powerful connections in key states such as Florida and New Jersey, in addition to his own in Virginia, all of which will be important in November.

For his own re-election this year, he raised more than $100,000 from donors in Florida, another $100,000 from donors in New York, and even $100,000 from Mr. Obama's home state of Illinois.

Reaching Jews

Rep Roy Blunt (R-MO), the House Minority Whip, said he appointed Mr. Cantor his deputy in 2003 (the same post Dennis Hastert held before becoming Speaker in 1999), because he was so impressed with Mr. Cantor's ability to reach out to the Jewish community.

"He's worked hard around the country to try to build bridges and support among the Jewish community, and he did that very effectively. As the only member of the House leadership—Republican or Democrat—who's Jewish, it gives him substantial credibility to help reach out in that direction," he said.

Mr. Cantor knows that, as a Conservative Republican, he supports domestic policies that many Jews, almost instinctively, shy away from. However, he said in a recent interview, "I think that when it comes to Israel, all that gets set aside."

Go-To Person

His positions on Israel and experience on the Task Force on Terrorism have made him a go-to person for many of his colleagues. His ability to think quickly on his feet has made him a passionate and articulate advocate for Israel in the media and at parlor meetings.

This is no small matter. Mr. McCain needs a ferocious fundraiser to make up for his own weak performance in this area. According to all reports, Mr. Obama has raised more than three times the amount accumulated by Mr. McCain.

A website which says it was established by grassroots supporters of Mr. Cantor, www.ericcantorforvp.com, says Mr. McCain needs Mr. Cantor because "Conservatives have not had a candidate to rally around."

That, the site says, will change if Mr. McCain selects Mr. Cantor as his running mate. "He is pro-life, pro-family, pro-free market, pro-military, dynamic, and young," says the site. "Eric Cantor will provide a dynamism that does not exist in the Republican campaign."

Smart and Savvy

His supporters say he is also very smart, very articulate, and politically savvy. In 1982, while an undergraduate at George Washington University, he interned for Rep Tom Bliley (R-VA) on his first re-election campaign, working his way from driver to, eventually, campaign manager. Mr. Cantor received his law degree from The College of William and Mary, and then earned as Master's degree in real estate development at Columbia in New York.

While at Columbia, he met his wife, the former Diana Fine, a Democrat originally from Miami Beach who was working at Goldman Sachs and had been living in Greenwich Village for ten years.

When she and Mr. Cantor moved back to Virginia, where he resumed working in father's business, she said she experienced it as "culture shock."

She became a Republican and, in 1996, was appointed by Virginia Gov George Allen to run the Virginia College Savings Plan.

Kosher Home

As a potential Second Family, the Cantors are extremely photogenic. They have three children, Evan, Jenna, and Michael, and maintain a traditional Jewish, kosher home.

Reached at a birthday party for his son, Mr. Cantor addressed the issue of his possible selection by discussing how his children felt about it: "Cool that my name is even there."

It was undoubtedly a kosher party. In recent years, Mr. Cantor made the decision to adhere to the dietary laws outside his home, too. He said that sometimes makes things difficult for him, but, he said, he would rather go hungry than ask for special arrangements.

"I just make do," he said, admitting that, for him, "religion is a very private thing."

He is on the board of and helped secure state funding for the Virginia Holocaust Museum and, over the years, has participated in the annual campaign to raise millions of dollars for the local Jewish Federation.

Lower East Side

Like so many Jewish immigrants to the US, Mr. Cantor's paternal grandparents settled in New York when they first arrived from Eastern Europe. His great uncle was the first to relocate to Richmond, opting for an opportunity to work in the restaurant fixture business.

Mr. Cantor's grandfather followed, but he died when Mr. Cantor's father was just two years old. To make ends meet, his grandmother ran Cantor's Grocery, and, for a time, she and her two sons lived above the store.

Mr. Cantor's father went to law school, and, eventually, started a business developing real estate and building shopping centers.

He also became active in local Republican politics. In 1984, he was a key supporter of the Reagan-Bush Ticket, and Eric Cantor became involved in the campaign before he was old enough to vote.

First Jewish VP

Some observers argue that Mr. McCain, who is projected to do well in the Jewish community—garnering perhaps as much as Ronald Reagan's 40 percent—does not need a Jewish running mate to capture the Jewish vote.

Others say with Mr. Cantor on the ticket, Mr. McCain could "seal the deal" on bringing Jews who had supported Hillary Clinton into the Republican's corner.

If selected, Mr. Cantor would be the first Jewish Republican vice-presidential candidate. In 2000, Sen. Joseph Lieberman, then a Democrat and now an Independent, was the first Jewish vice-presidential candidate of any party. Mr. Lieberman is campaigning heavily for Mr. McCain this year, which means if Mr. Cantor is selected, Mr. McCain would be supported simultaneously by both Jews who ran for the post.

Many analysts believe Mr. Lieberman's presence helped the Democratic ticket headed by Al Gore get within a hairsbreadth of victory in Florida. This year, the analysts say, campaigning in Florida by both Messrs Lieberman and Cantor for a McCain-Cantor ticket could give the Republicans a powerful advantage in the fall.

In addition, Mr. Cantor stands a good chance of being able to deliver his home state of Virginia. That could be important because Mr. Obama is rumored to be seriously considering Virginia Gov Tim Kaine as his running mate.

Polls

In any case, there seems to be no question that Mr. McCain's numbers in the polls are rising and Mr. Obama's are sinking, at least for now. Most general polls show the two candidates in pretty much of a statistical dead heat.

It's different in the Jewish community, where Mr. Obama is far ahead of his opponent.

But to be successful, Mr. McCain does not need a majority of Jews, which is probably unattainable. Last month, polls released by Gallop and the far-left J Street, that hopes to be the left-wing alternative to AIPAC, showed Mr. McCain winning 29 percent and 32 percent of the Jewish vote.

Mr. Cantor, who is serving as one of the leaders of Mr. McCain's outreach campaign to the Jewish community, said he is hearing "excellent" reactions from Jewish voters.

"The polls are also showing that more than 32 percent of Jewish voters support McCain. We know that, for the Democrats, they never had a President who got less than 70 percent of the Jewish vote," he said.

Voting in Israel

In Israel, where some 250,000 Israelis with American citizenship are eligible to vote by absentee ballot, polls show that Mr. McCain is favored over Mr. Obama as "better for Israel" by a margin of 42 percent to 18 percent. Ten percent said that there was no difference between the two, and 30 percent had no clear opinion on the issue.

The poll, which was conducted by the Tami Steinmetz Center for Peace Research at Tel Aviv University, showed that Mr. McCain leads among the voters of all Israeli parties, except Meretz, the far-left party which has only five of the 120 MKs.

Israel is America's fifth-largest community abroad, with many of the potential voters hailing from swing states such as Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Michigan.

Close Relations

If Mr. Cantor is selected, pragmatic campaign reasons will not be the only ones. Mr. Cantor's close relationship with Mr. McCain is not a secret.

Last month, Mr. McCain had a private luncheon with Mr. and Mrs. Cantor at the Hampton residence of Revlon mogul Ronald Perelman, a major GOP donor and hefty contributor to Jewish causes. Later that evening, at a mega-dollar fundraiser held for the Republican candidate by Mr. Perelman, Mr. Cantor was one of the few "friends of John" who was not asked to contribute financially to the campaign.

According to a source in the McCain campaign, even if Mr. Cantor is not chosen as the vice presidential candidate, he would always be a close friend with easy access to a McCain White House.

Recognizing Hamas

This could be very important in light of some of Mr. McCain's statements that some pro-Israel activists have found troubling. For example, in a 2006 interview on Sky News with former Clinton State Department official James Rubin, Mr. McCain implied an eventual willingness for the US to engage in talks with the terrorist group, Hamas.

"They're the government. Sooner or later, we are going to have to deal with them, one way or another, and I understand why this administration and previous administrations had such antipathy toward Hamas because of their dedication to violence and the things they not only espouse, but practice. But it's a new reality in the Middle East. I think the lesson is people want security and a decent life and decent future, that they want democracy. Fatah was not giving them that," he said.

The same day, however, Mr. McCain spoke to CNN and made clear that the only way he believed the US could "do business" with Hamas would be if the terrorists renounced terror.

Not Recognizing Hamas

His earlier remarks, however, have come back to haunt Mr. McCain. After a Hamas leader openly endorsed Mr. Obama last May, supporters of the Democratic candidate suggested Mr. McCain had no right to criticize it considering his own quasi-support of the terrorists.

In response, Mr. McCain issued a statement that he has "always believed that serious engagement would require mandatory conditions and Hamas must change itself fundamentally: renounce violence, abandon its goal of eradicating Israel, and accept a two-state solution."

He said his longstanding position is that "the President of the US should not unconditionally meet with leaders of Iran, Hamas, or Hizbollah."

"Barack Obama has made his position equally clear," he said, adding that it "shows incredibly dangerous and weak judgment."

Green Line

It was Mr. McCain's judgment, however, that was called into question when he told a Ha'aretz reporter that, as President, he would send "the smartest guy I know to the Middle East."

Asked who that would be, he responded, "Brent Scowcroft or Jim Baker, though I know you in Israel don't like Baker."

As Secretary of State for the first President Bush, Mr. Baker made clear the feeling was mutual. When Jews, concerned about the Bush administration's failure to deliver promised and desperately needed loan guarantees to Israel, began lobbying pro-Israel supporters in Congress, Mr. Baker crudely told the President to disregard the Jews because "they don't vote for us anyway."

Messrs Baker and Scowcroft are viewed by supporters of the Jewish state as typical of the State Department's anti-Israel, pro-Palestinian Arabists, who demand that Israel withdraw to the pre-1967 borders, relinquishing Judea, Samaria, and the Golan Heights, and dividing Jerusalem.

By praising Messrs Baker and Scowcroft, Mr. McCain seemed to be endorsing an Israeli retreat to the Green Line.

Backtrack

When the interview he had given to Ha'aretz began to make waves, Mr. McCain disavowed the article, saying, "I've never held the position that Israel should return to the 1967 lines, and that is not my position today."

Calling the interview with Ha'aretz "a brief, off-the-cuff conversation," Mr. McCain said he had never discussed "settlement blocs, a total withdrawal, or anything of the sort."

He did not, however, say that his envoy would be someone other than Mr. Baker or Mr. Scowcroft. Supporters of Mr. Cantor hope that his presence on the ticket and, if they are successful, in the White House, would put him in a position to suggest other people to represent Washington in Israel.

Doubletalk in Sderot

In March of this year, during Mr. McCain's trip to Israel, once again, some politically conservative Israelis found the candidate's remarks, this time in Sderot, disturbing and off the mark.

For example, in the Philadelphia Evening Bulletin, Efrat-based journalist David Bedein said Mr. McCain began a press conference in Sderot by describing his shock that entire families, indeed the town's entire population, was living under the constant threat of missile attacks which allowed them only 15 seconds warning in which to take cover.

"That's no way to live," said Mr. McCain, before adding that "Israel should indeed respond to these attacks and continue the peace process."

He said the cycle of "action and reaction" must stop and, therefore, the peace process should not be abandoned.

He said the US administration and Congress were determined to push the peace process forward, and he urged Israel and the Palestinians to do the same.

No Advice

When he was asked how Israel should respond to Arab rocket attacks on Sderot from Gaza, Mr. McCain said he could not "give a good answer." But, he added, "I can tell you that I believe that if rocket attacks came across the border of the United States of America, that the American people would probably demand pretty vigorous actions in response."

Asked about Hamas, he repeated his position. "Someone is going to have to answer me the question of how you are to negotiate with an organization that is dedicated to your extinction," he said.

Nevertheless, Mr. Bedein said, Mr. McCain seemed "miffed" when asked whether, in retrospect, the evacuation of Gaza and giving terrorists land from which to lob missiles had been a good idea. Further, he was asked, given Israel's experience with the retreat from Gaza, would he, as President, advocate further withdrawals from Judea, Samaria, or the Golan Heights.

"These are issues to be worked out between Israelis and Palestinians," said Mr. McCain, adding that he supported President Bush's vision of a Palestinian state.

Who's a Moderate

Mr. McCain said he believed Fatah represents a "moderate" entity with which Israel can negotiate. He then praised PA leader Mahmoud Abbas as a "moderate who endorses peace and reconciliation."

He said peace could be forged with these "voices of moderation," a view that was seconded by Mr. Lieberman and Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-NC), both of whom joined Mr. McCain on this trip to Israel.

All three American Senators had harsh words for Islamist extremists, but despite numerous reports indicating that PA television and other media outlets in the West Bank, which are totally controlled by Mr. Abbas, engage in routine Israel-bashing and praise for terrorists, Messrs McCain, Lieberman, and Graham seemed certain that Hamas and Fatah maintained different policies regarding Israel.

Disappointed

Mr. McCain said he believed Mr. Abbas wanted "to get the peace process started," adding that he was certain the PA leader "does not support the terrorist activity taking place in Gaza."

Mr. Bedein, whose views are politically conservative, said he was disappointed that Mr. McCain, after seeing for himself the destruction caused by the terrorism waged by Hamas against Sderot's civilian population, had not spoken more forcefully about ways to end the siege militarily. He was also chagrined that Mr. McCain could not see "the truth about Abbas and Fatah."

"Neither McCain nor his colleagues indicated that they knew anything about the continuing involvement of the Fatah organization in terror and attempted terror activities," said Mr. Bedein. "McCain's policies sounded like the Oslo process all over again."

Moving the Embassy

Many supporters of Israel believe that with Mr. Cantor on the ticket, Mr. McCain's basically positive view of the Jewish state and her struggle against terrorism, whether from Hamas or Fatah, would undergo a subtle change that the pro-Israel community would welcome.

In June, Mr. McCain told a Miami audience the US embassy in Israel should be moved from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem "before anything else happens."

At the end of July, Mr. McCain made the same promise on CNN, and when news anchor Wolf Blitzer asked, "When?" Mr. McCain said, "Right away. I've been committed to that proposition for years."

Same Old Promise

Some pundits pointed out that when President Bush made the promise in 2000, he hedged, saying he would start the "process" of moving the embassy his first day in office. Mr. McCain did not say anything about a process.

The Jerusalem Embassy Relocation Act was introduced in 1995 by then-Sen. Bob Dole, just before he ran for President against Mr. Clinton. The law gave the President a loophole, which was taken first by Mr. Clinton and then by Mr. Bush. Every six months, citing national security concerns, they signed waivers delaying the Congressional mandate to move the embassy.

The difference between Messrs Clinton and Bush and Mr. McCain is that the latter voted for the law.

Dividing Jerusalem

Mr. Obama was not a member of the Senate at the time, and, therefore, could not vote on the measure. But Mr. Obama has been quite clear about his position on Jerusalem: he is in favor of its redivision.

At AIPAC's Washington conference earlier this year, he told the pro-Israel audience, "Israel's security is sacrosanct. It is non-negotiable. The Palestinians need a state that is contiguous and cohesive and that allows them to prosper. But any agreement with the Palestinian people must preserve Israel's identity as a Jewish state, with secure, recognized and defensible borders. Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided."

One day later, claiming the phraseology in his statement was poor, he backtracked, saying Jerusalem was a "final-status issue, which means it has to be negotiated between the two parties," as part of "an agreement that they both can live with."

He said he meant to tell AIPAC that, for him, "undivided" meant no barbed wire through the middle of the city."

Jerusalem and the US

At the Miami event, Mr. McCain said that in his administration, "the subject of Jerusalem will be addressed in negotiations by the Israeli government and people."

He seemed to omit mentioning the Palestinians on purpose.

Mr. Cantor has a different take. At the "One Jerusalem" event, he linked the destinies of Israel and the US.

"What befalls Jerusalem threatens the security of the US and its allies worldwide. That's because Jerusalem and Israel are Ground Zero in the global battle between tyrant and democracy, radicalism and moderation, terrorism and freedom," he said.

Switching to Hebrew, Mr. Cantor quoted Israel's first Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion, who said, "If a land has a soul, then Jerusalem is the soul of the Land of Israel."

Never Again

While Mr. McCain told Mr. Blitzer he would not discuss hypotheticals, such as whether he would support an Israeli attack on Iran, he did make a statement that zeroed in on the fear in Jewish communities concerning the threats made by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

"I can tell you this," Mr. McCain said on CNN, "The United States of America is committed to making sure that there is never a second Holocaust. That will be what I do as President of the United States."

Some observers said that sort of speech has endeared Mr. McCain to Mr. Cantor.

Other Possibilities

Other potential running mates for Mr. McCain whose names have been mentioned include Sarah Palin, the mother of five who serves as governor of Alaska where she hunts and is a dog sledder; Hewlett Packard CEO Carly Fiorina, one Mr. McCain's top economic advisers; Minnesota Gov Tim Pawlenty; and Mr. Romney.

Some pundits have suggested Mr. McCain might even ask Mr. Lieberman, but others say Mr. McCain may well ask Mr. Lieberman to serve as Secretary of State.

Former House Speaker, Republican Newt Gingrich, who serves as a Fox News contributor, has publicly warned Mr. McCain not to pick "one more relatively boring normal mainstream Republican white guy."

"This fall, there's going to be a lot of energy surrounding the Obama campaign, and we need to find ways to generate a substantial amount of energy around the McCain campaign, and an effective, dynamic, different kind of vice-presidential nominee, I think, would make a difference," he said.

Time will tell whether that difference will be fulfilled by the only Jewish member of the House.

S.L.R.























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Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 06:18 AM

.............And on the side he has a short-order restaurant specializing in biscuits with corned beef gravy and a side of grits.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: John Hardly
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 07:31 AM

"One big thing to consider when mulling over possible VP selections for either party is this: If the candidate is a sitting congressman and is elected VP, who's going to replace him? With razor thin Democratic majorities in both houses, neither party is going to want a VP candidate whose seat might be given to the other party by gubernatorial appointment or special election. For example, there's absolutely no possibility that Obama is going to select Bill Nelson of Florida, because Florida's Republican governor, Charlie Crist, would get to appoint a replacement for at least the next two years of Nelson's term. That Joe Biden isn't afflicted by a similar problem (Delaware's governor is a Democrat) is a point in his favor.'

Two things:

1. The Democrat majority will not be slim after this election. Estimates of 60% Democrat majorities in both houses are not uncommon nor unrealistic.

2. The VP is still president of the Senate and votes to bread ties there.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 10:49 AM

John, surely that is not deliberate? It is not the Democrat Party.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: John Hardly
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 11:19 AM

So tell me, Ebbie, are Bayh, Biden, and Obama collectively "Democratics" or are they "Democrats"?

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 11:33 AM

IMO, James Carville has some good advice for Obama, regardless of who he chooses for VP. You can read the whole thing HERE. Here's an excerpt:

Obama can connect with voters on the economy by using history as a guideline. He should start by reading "Unequal Democracy," by Princeton academic Larry Bartels. The non-partisan and non-political Bartels points out devastatingly after an exhaustive study of Democratic and Republican presidents that the Democrats built a better economy and a more just society.

The campaign needs to say that, since 1900, Democratic presidents have not only "won" but dominated on every economic front: GDP growth, employment, deficit and income equality. Need more? How about a better performing stock market and a more fiscally-responsible spending.

There's no need to listen to McCain's marginal rates, death tax, deregulation, trickle-down, supply-side shenanigans because historically Democratic presidencies have produced better economies. And with the economy still in the forefront, it seems like a no-brainer for Obama to talk about the historical supremacy of economies under Democratic presidents.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 11:39 AM

I think Obama Biden would be a bad combination for the simple reason that when you see the two names together out of the corner of your eye it looks like Osama Bin Laden.

Crass I know, but lets face it, Obamas political Rivals will exploit it.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: olddude
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 11:50 AM

my money is on a Murdoch/Bankley combo

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 11:52 AM

So, John, are you a Republic?

And yes, I do know the difference between the constructs.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: PoppaGator
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 01:10 PM

What I'm finding hard to believe is that we'll actually have final answers to the running-mate questions soon, one within about a week and the other just another week later.

This campaign has been going on for SO l-o-o-o-n-g that I've become entirely accustomed to thinking about the eventual outcome as being in the far-far distant future. And the VP choices, as well, have been a matter of distant specualtion for an awful long time, so long that it's difficult to readjust to the idea that time has finally (almost) come to finalize them.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 01:43 PM

Ah, yes! The "Democrat/Democratic" squabble!

First I heard of this issue was during TV coverage of the 1968 Republican Convention. Speakers kept referring to the "Democrat Party" and Mr. Cronkite (or one of his ilk) explained that it wasn't accidental. The GOP big dogs had decided at one of their recent pow-wows that "Democrat Party" was to be the "official" nomenclature for the loyal opposition in Republicanspeak.

Forty years, and not much has changed. The Republicans still predictably goad the Democrats by childishly calling their party something other than the name under which it's chartered, and the Democrats respond in an equally predictable and childish manner by getting upset about it.

How much ya wanna bet it's still an "issue" in 2048?

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: John Hardly
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 03:07 PM

but I didn't say "Democrat Party". And one does not refer to a person from that party as a "democratic". Not ever. Not in any context.

On the other hand, a single "Republican" is a member of the like-named "Republican Party". In any and every context.

Ebbie was either trying to be funny or she was quite objectively wrong in her picking at my usage.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 04:08 PM

I'm neither, John. Surely you would grant that the two words are used differently, almost opposingly?

Republicans belong to a Republic. Democrats honor Democracy.

So there. *g

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 05:24 PM

In some places republicans only aspire to live in a republic.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: Riginslinger
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 07:45 PM

And in some places Democrats are burned at the stake.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 07:57 PM

And here recently it might very well be another Dem lightin' the match...

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 08:45 PM

GUESS WHO   IS   GOING TO THE DEMOCTRIC CONVENTION !

Mohammed ALI

It is coincidently on the birthday of MLK and muslim holy day of Ramalama dingdong.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 08:48 PM

CNN reported that a fake email message to Obama supporters said that Kane was VP

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: pdq
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 11:25 AM

Well, I have heard that today, Friday the 22nd, is the day that the Black Messiah slips the press a note telling who the anointed one #2 is going to be. Couldn't he wait until the convention and do this out where the public can see the process? Perhaps even allow the public some input?

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 11:48 AM

Is there anything that the "Black Messiah" (That rolls nicely off the tongue. *g*) could do that would meet with your approval, pdq?

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: pdq
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 12:01 PM

I there anything that any Republican can do to get your approval, Ebbie?

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 12:56 PM

I'm guessing if he was White, Republican, and his name was McCain, that would do the trick.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: pdq
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 01:17 PM

How can anyone consider Black Messiah an insult unless they have a pathelogical hatred for religion and people of faith?

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 01:26 PM

Back to the issue at hand, please.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: PoppaGator
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 01:46 PM

So, pdq, when you wrote the phrase "Black Messiah," you were not being sarcastic?

Coulda fooled me!

I'm not terribly offended, and even perceive a bit of humor in that usage ~ even though I don't agree with you.

But I have to observe that your critics were merely expressing their opinions of your viewpoint, while your f-word-laden reponses were much more clearly in violation of the "no personal nastiness" principle.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain/Lieberman v Obama/Biden
From: pdq
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 01:51 PM

"...even perceive a bit of humor in that usage ~ even though I don't agree with you." ~ {rated} PG

Thank you for recognizing an attempt at humor. My posts usually have some, but an observer who has no sense of humor will not see that.