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BS: Troll spotting
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Subject: BS: Troll spotting From: OldPossum Date: 17 Feb 06 - 12:36 PM This is a serious thread, although it is labelled BS. I would be grateful if jokes and other silliness is kept out of it (I have nothing against either, but please not in this thread). Thanks in advance. We have had threads about trolling before, so why start a new one? Well apart from being a general reminder against feeding the trolls, I hope this may be useful as a way of arguing rationally why we should not feed the trolls (since some now think it is OK), and also to help people recognize what a troll is. They are not always obvious, at least to some, and ideas to help people to spot a troll are encouraged. I hope this thread will not be descended upon by trolls and flamers, but if it is, the clones have my blessing to use their Delete buttons. So (I hear you say), why should you not feed the trolls? A) Should you refrain from feeding the trolls because I say so, or because Joe Offer or someone else tells you to? No! You should refrain from feeding the trolls because it is a good idea not to feed the trolls. Because it is the solution to the problem. And it is always best to be part of the solution, rather than being part of the problem. B) But isn't strong debate a good thing? Yes, I heartily agree! Strong debate is an excellent thing, and that is precisely why you should not feed the trolls (Clue: Strong debate has very very little to do with trolling. If in doubt, see below). C) But so-and-so is a racist/called me a !%&*#!!/whatever. We shouldn't allow that sort of thing here at the Mudcat Café. I have to make a stand against him!! My answer is: The best way to do that is to not feed the troll. Consider that saying nothing is the strongest possible rebuke, much stronger than telling someone to fuck off, or whatever else you had in mind. Also consider the point I make below about taking your own spontaneous reaction into account. If you must reply to one of those messages then remember the saying: Revenge is a dish best served cold! D) Max ought to create a filter/ban all guests etc. etc. Well Max can speak for himself, it is really up to him, but my reply would be twofold: Firstly, these suggestions have been made since the year 2000 at least, and probably even before that. It has been debated ad nauseam already. Experience shows that it simply ain't gonna happen. It is part of the philosophy (so to speak) of this place to be as open as possible. Also many of the suggestions made require much more effort from Max/Jeff/Joe Offer and his merry band of clones, than most people realise. They come here to have fun just like the rest of us, and they are not getting paid for what they do. Oh, and I almost forgot: My second point is this: The filters, blocking of guests etc. would not be necessary if we all just exercise a bit of self-control. It seems bleedin' obvious to me, that for us to do something very easy, namely to do nothing in certain cases, is a lot simpler than for the site's owner to put a complicated procedure into place. E) It doesn't work! I refrained from feeding the trolls for ten hours/ten days/six months/whatever, and they are still here! My reply: Well, it really does work, but you mustn't expect instant gratification. We will always have the occasional troll stopping by, since they are all over the Internet these days. The more people feeding them, the bigger the problem is, since feeding the trolls encourages them, and attracts even more of them. Conversely, the fewer people feeding them, the less encouraged they will be. But it is not like flipping a switch and we will never see trolls again. Rather it is something that we should all be aware of all the time. Many years of experience shows that ignoring the trolls really does work – but if just one of us feeds a troll the effect is much lessened, and it can perhaps be hard to tell the difference. If I haven't convinced you yet, then consider this: Try thinking about the problem the other way round: People on this forum have been feeding the trolls again and again, and that hasn't helped, has it? The trolls just keep coming. Why don't we at least give it a try: Don't feed the trolls and that goes for all of us. So, what is a troll anyway (the intelligent reader asks)? That question is not so easy to answer as one might think. There are no very obvious symptoms to look for. In a nutshell, a troll is someone who posts a message solely to get a reaction out of other people. In fact, one of the best ways to recognize a troll is to consider your own reaction: If you read a message that gets you all fired up and makes you want to react immediately, without pausing to reflect – then it is almost certain to be a troll who posted that message. I suggest the following points. Please feel free to add to them: 1) If someone posts a controversial point of view, it could be a troll – but it could also be "legitimate". It takes more than this to make someone a troll, but it is a danger sign, which ought to make you stop and think. 2) If this point of view is posted not by a member, but by a named guest, or even an unnamed guest, it becomes increasingly likely that it is a troll. Sorry to all our sensible guests, both named and unnamed, but that's the way it is, in my view. Similarly, if a thread is started by such a guest, one should be even more suspicious. 3) If such a view is posted in a thread that was otherwise about something else, it increases the probability that it is posted by a troll. 4) If it doesn't get an immediate response, it will often keep the discussion going all by itself, perhaps by using different identities. This is another good clue. 5) Most importantly, try to develop a gut feeling as to whether someone might be trolling or not. Consider what you think the poster's motive might be for posting the inflammatory/provocative message. Like I stated above, a troll is really known by its intention - which is why they can sometimes be difficult to recognize for clueless newbies and other wellmeaning people – and try to take your own instinctive reaction into account. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: Wesley S Date: 17 Feb 06 - 12:42 PM Human nature being what it is I'll be suprised if we ALL stop feeding the trolls. But there is a lot of wisdom in what you have to say. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: Amos Date: 17 Feb 06 - 12:45 PM Wisely said, OP. It is easy to lose sight, in the comings and goings of so many identities and viewpoints, of who is trolling and who is not. But nevertheless, your advice is well conceived and worth thinking on. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: John MacKenzie Date: 17 Feb 06 - 12:53 PM As one who has in the past been guilty of feeding these mental deficients I hereby resolve to try my very best to resist those cowards who hide behind anonymity in order to say things that they wouldn't dare to say to the face of the person/s they waste their vituperation on. Giok |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: Joe Offer Date: 17 Feb 06 - 12:59 PM I get all sorts of indignant messages, demanding to know why Mudcat "tolerates" this or another troll message. So, then I go to the message, and I see that our Usual Suspects have posted twenty replies to the troll - in twenty minutes! Then I have to read all this crap to see what should be deleted. It's so much more elegant when I can delete trolls quietly, without there being all the frenzy that the trolls crave so much. That's what trolls look for - to get people stirred up - and our Usual Suspects never fail to feed them. The Usual Suspects have been very busy this week. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: Peace Date: 17 Feb 06 - 01:02 PM Absolutely. Let's ignore the nazis and racists. That will make them go away. Or, disallow GUESTS to post and the people who DO post offensive (racist, nazi, etc) stuff will have to post using their own 'names'. That's hard to do? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: Peace Date: 17 Feb 06 - 01:04 PM PS If no one throws the first stone, it's unlike anyone will throw a second. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: rumanci Date: 17 Feb 06 - 01:11 PM well defined pointers OP but some of us don't have any trouble ignoring troll behaviour or reacting to any sort of button pushing and it doesn't stop us utterly condemning the vile hatemongers or trying to dissuade a few from attempting to rationally discuss anything with them although that has often fallen on deaf ears too or respecting those who do make their own efforts openly to condemn the promotion of evil, whether we personally agree wholeheartedly with their methods or not but GUEST has a point What is the purpose of granting permission to the clones to delete troll and flaming behaviour on THIS thread when they make few attempts to delete those contributions anywhere else and, indeed, heartily defend the right of every individual to promote whatever their hatreds are in any direction they like ? rumanci |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: GUEST Date: 17 Feb 06 - 01:14 PM Surely everyone who posts hopes for some kind of reaction. Once or twice I've been called a troll, and been surprised and a little upset. (Does that mean my accuser was a troll?) I certainly didn't mean to upset anyone. But if I post something and no-one replies I usually assume no-one was interested. Now I'll always be worrying in case you all think I'm a troll and so are not 'feeding' me. If I unwittingly upset you I'd rather you said so, so I know what to avoid in future. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: MMario Date: 17 Feb 06 - 01:20 PM which would be much easier to do if there was some sort of label we could use to identify you - otherwise we have to say things like - unknown person posting at 17 Feb 06 - 01:14 PM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: Jeri Date: 17 Feb 06 - 02:09 PM Guest, if people thought you were a troll, you'd have a 200+ post thread. 'Peace': "Let's ignore the nazis and racists. That will make them go away." Well, that's one thing nobody's tried yet. Or do you think getting predictably upset when someone's trying to upset you might eventually be effective in making them stop? Would you please explain how you see that happening? Usenet mostly works because people have learned to not see it as a personal responsibility to be vigilantes. Otherewise, it would have collapsed under the weight of constant fighting a long time ago. Mudcat mostly has, for me anyway. How do you imagine that fighting with those who come here to start fights will end? What's the worst thing that could happen if most people ignored them? I would support members only and non-members under certain circumstances. If Max goes that way, I'd want the few people who have tried their damndest to force his hand to not be allowed here, at least for a while. I don't think they should be allowed to post here now. It seems to me that 'Peace', at least, seems to be trying to make things worse so Max will be forced to step in. If membership is not going to be required... Joe, I don't know how you feel about it, but if folks want to post message after message out of hate and anger, I say let them. No deletion of anything anyone who might be a member has replied to. It's just too much to expect anyone to clean up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: jacqui.c Date: 17 Feb 06 - 02:18 PM Well put Old Possum - couldn't agree with you more. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: The Shambles Date: 17 Feb 06 - 02:55 PM Racist/Nazi Permathread A thread which has been subject to imposed closure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: Peace Date: 17 Feb 06 - 03:38 PM Subject: BS: Racist/Nazi Permathread From: Peace - PM Date: 17 Feb 06 - 01:08 PM Why not try it? Then people like me who think badly of them will know to avoid that thread. (Didn't want to clutter up the Troll-spotting thread.) Boom. No more bad behaviour. Freedom of speech is maintained and the people who agree with them can go there and support them under the GUEST moniker, and those who don't can just stay away. Howzat? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't think we want to go there, "Peace"/Brucie/Bruce Murdoch. Just resist the temptation to post to the troll threads, and Mudcat will be a much happier place. You are by far the worst compulsive poster I have ever seen. You have posted over fifty messages in the last twenty-four hours, and there are many days when you post far more than that. There are almost 18,000 messages posted under your registration, and that doesn't count all the anonymous messages you post. While most people can say what they have to say in one message, you post ten. And when you get tired of posting under your own name, you post anonymously. You are the only "regular" Mudcatter who posts anonymously with any frequency. It's high time that you stop. -Joe Offer- THIS THREAD IS CLOSED" 1 Peace BS: Racist/Nazi Permathread 17-Feb-06 - 01:08 PM 2 Peace RE: BS: Troll spotting 17-Feb-06 - 01:04 PM 3 Peace RE: BS: Troll spotting 17-Feb-06 - 01:02 PM 4 Peace RE: BS: The right to insult and cause offence 17-Feb-06 - 12:57 PM 5 Peace RE: BS: Say what? (To get your horsey moving??) 17-Feb-06 - 12:39 PM 6 Peace RE: BS: The right to insult and cause offence 17-Feb-06 - 12:25 PM 7 Peace RE: BS: The right to insult and cause offence 17-Feb-06 - 12:20 PM 8 Peace RE: BS: Say what? (To get your horsey moving??) 17-Feb-06 - 11:45 AM 9 Peace RE: BS: The right to be bland and inoffensive 17-Feb-06 - 11:38 AM 10 Peace RE: BS: Where's Cluin? The WHO wants to know. 17-Feb-06 - 11:37 AM 11 Peace RE: BS: Where's Cluin? The WHO wants to know. 17-Feb-06 - 11:31 AM 12 Peace RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney 17-Feb-06 - 11:18 AM 13 Peace RE: BS: The right to insult and cause offence 17-Feb-06 - 10:59 AM 14 Peace RE: BS: Mudcat Food Fight! 17-Feb-06 - 10:56 AM 15 Peace RE: BS: The death of old sayings 17-Feb-06 - 10:26 AM 16 Peace RE: BS: Where's Cluin? The WHO wants to know. 17-Feb-06 - 10:24 AM 17 Peace RE: BS: Mudcat Food Fight! 17-Feb-06 - 01:29 AM 18 Peace RE: BS: Agoraphobia 17-Feb-06 - 01:29 AM 19 Peace RE: BS: Wilfred Cuddlesmore 17-Feb-06 - 01:06 AM 20 Peace RE: BS: Oh, no! I'm unemployed again. 17-Feb-06 - 12:51 AM 21 Peace RE: BS: Cluin has dibbs. 17-Feb-06 - 12:47 AM 22 Peace RE: BS: Cluin has dibbs. 17-Feb-06 - 12:46 AM 23 Peace RE: BS: Mudcat Food Fight! 17-Feb-06 - 12:45 AM 24 Peace RE: BS: Cluin has dibbs. 17-Feb-06 - 12:44 AM 25 Peace RE: BS: Cluin has dibbs. 17-Feb-06 - 12:42 AM 26 Peace RE: BS: Cluin has dibbs. 17-Feb-06 - 12:40 AM 27 Peace RE: BS: Cluin has dibbs. 17-Feb-06 - 12:40 AM 28 Peace RE: BS: Alternative Religious Perspectives 17-Feb-06 - 12:39 AM 29 Peace RE: BS: Cluin has dibbs. 17-Feb-06 - 12:37 AM 30 Peace RE: BS: Where's Cluin? The WHO wants to know. 17-Feb-06 - 12:35 AM 31 Peace RE: BS: Cluin has dibbs. 17-Feb-06 - 12:32 AM 32 Peace RE: BS: Where's Cluin? The WHO wants to know. 17-Feb-06 - 12:32 AM 33 Peace RE: BS: Cluin has dibbs. 17-Feb-06 - 12:28 AM 34 Peace RE: BS: Where's Cluin? The WHO wants to know. 17-Feb-06 - 12:26 AM 35 Peace BS: Where's Cluin? The WHO wants to know. 17-Feb-06 - 12:25 AM 36 Peace RE: BS: Cluin has dibbs. 17-Feb-06 - 12:22 AM 37 Peace RE: BS: Cluin has dibbs. 17-Feb-06 - 12:21 AM 38 Peace RE: BS: Mudcat Food Fight! 17-Feb-06 - 12:18 AM 39 Peace RE: BS: Cluin has dibbs. 17-Feb-06 - 12:18 AM 40 Peace RE: BS: Mudcat Food Fight! 17-Feb-06 - 12:16 AM 41 Peace RE: BS: Cluin has dibbs. 17-Feb-06 - 12:13 AM 42 Peace RE: BS: Cluin has dibbs. 17-Feb-06 - 12:12 AM 43 Peace RE: BS: Cluin has dibbs. 17-Feb-06 - 12:11 AM 44 Peace RE: BS: Cluin has dibbs. 17-Feb-06 - 12:00 AM And six as GUEST--remember, you allow GUESTS. Bar me permanently, Joe. But try to bar a few Nazis and racists, too, OK. Thank you very much Shambles.
You have no defense, Mr. Murdoch. You have abused Mudcat and taken advantage of the good will of the Mudcat community, and you are not to be trusted. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: GUEST Date: 17 Feb 06 - 04:10 PM This thread is becoming nasty. The thread lacks backbone from those members who are aiming fire certain directions and haven't the guts to name names. If you have taken offence or been offended why not ask certain members if they now wish to apologize to you. Possibly they could have made remarks on the heat of the moment. I would much prefer this thread to begin a healing process than become a such and such said this to me once. We are adults and should begin to act as such. We are all guilty of being hotheads at some points in our lives. USE THE THREAD AS A TURNING POINT. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: artbrooks Date: 17 Feb 06 - 05:59 PM One reason for responding to trolls that OldPossum missed (I think): these people are usually pretty silly, weather they sign in as GUEST, GUEST,{name} or have a "real" MudName, and sometimes it's fun just to rattle their cages. But, like Giok, I will try to behave myself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: John MacKenzie Date: 17 Feb 06 - 06:32 PM Well in spite of OPs wishes that this thread be taken seriously, once again it has deteriorated into flame wars this time between Shambles, and Brucie. Now Shambles is off on one of his ego trips reviving one of his own threads and cutting and pasting the quote from Joe Offer to Peace mentioned above. This is why the troll problem will always be with us, peoples' hobby horses, and their attendant egos. Giok |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 17 Feb 06 - 06:55 PM Trolls always have spotted coats - they are not uniform. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: Bobert Date: 17 Feb 06 - 07:57 PM Well, I ain't gonna get into Bruce's situation but would like to make one point that we are forgetting here and that is... ...there are alot of folks who have attacked me, Ron, Amos, dianavan, TIA and others because of arguments we have made for which they have no defense other than attack the messenger... I understand that and in some ways enjoy them doing so becuase it stregthens my opinion that I I are arguing the correct side of the issue... Now to some folks, these folks are trolls and they maybe acting similar to trolls in those cases... But they are not trolling... Hey, in these days and times, we have an administration which regularially attacks the opposition... So, while I can see that OldPossum has made some valid points, I also would warn against censorship... I have recieved PM's telling me not to feed trolls who I was was in heated debate with and who, inspite of their persoanl attacks against me, I felt were just using a rope-a-dope tactic while gathering more debating points from various blogs... I don't really have any trouble with those folks doing that... Martin Gibson, however, is the poster boy of Mudcat trolls becuase he really won't debate anything at all and I wouldn't mind seeing him get ignored more... I don't respond to him much these days but apparently lots of folks enjoy wrestling with him and, hey, he's harmless.... So, troll... No-troll... Hey, we're all adults here though we might not act like it and, yeah, it would be nice if some folks had more to contribute than trolling but that's the nature of the cyber-beast... And one last thing... Ain't nobody holding a gun to anyone's head here makin' 'um either open threads or responding... Yeah, I had my little melt-down last month after a GUEST called a US Marine Vet a "scumbag" because this Marine didn't march lockstep with the Iraq War and I am sorry I did... But I learned yet one more lesson about cyber-world and that is, I have a "choice" here... Just as that GUEST had to call this Marine a "scumbag"... Hey??? No one said that the cyber-world would be any more perfect than the real world... IMHO, that is... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: GUEST Date: 17 Feb 06 - 08:10 PM Joe I don't know if this matters or not but here goes...a couple of weeks ago there was some particularly nasty BNP posting on here, it was the night that little hawk made a thread about the best way to deal with your enemies was to laugh at them. Well that made perfect sense and a few sarky posts were made to the resident BNP'ers on the same thread. Quite a lot of posts actually. Most from made up personas like Major Ballsup etc etc etc and Dame Judith Kneesup. I was Judith, but have no idea who the others were. But they were really clearly deriding the BNP'ers. And it worked just like little hawk said because they stopped posting on that thread and haven't surfaced again yet. The next day they were all deleted, and you left a message about how you had to delete alot of racist posts. You deleted all the posts ridiculing the BNP'ers. But the original offending ones that were blatantly racist remained in tact. I don't know if bruce was one of the people who adopted a persona for that thread to ridicule them? But he is always very strong in his opposition to them. Everyone has a different sense of humour and is it possible that you didn't really appreciate/understand what was going on in that thread? I can't imagine bruce supporting racism in any form and would hate to think he is being accused of something this sick, due to a misunderstanding. Right I'll butt out now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: gnu Date: 17 Feb 06 - 08:13 PM WTF? This is a Friday night happy hour induced dream, ah, nightmare, right? Okay... I am gonna go check some other threads, and, if this thread is gone when I check back, I won't be pissed... okay? crossing fingers and clicking heals.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: number 6 Date: 17 Feb 06 - 08:20 PM I hope, just hope this thread does not ignite a witchhunt where the innocent become victims of the paranoid fanatics. sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: Big Al Whittle Date: 17 Feb 06 - 08:22 PM Call for the highway pa-troll 10/4 the information superhighway pa-troll 10/4 me an Broderick Crawford! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: gnu Date: 17 Feb 06 - 08:41 PM sIx... "I hope, just hope this thread does not ignite a witchhunt where the innocent become victims of the paranoid fanatics." Hahahaha. Good one. Shhh. What was that? No... you go look... I am afraid to read any more posts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: GUEST,dianavan Date: 17 Feb 06 - 08:54 PM Joe - I think you are wrong to reveal the name of someone who has posted anonymously. You are in a position of power and have abused that position by pointing a finger at one of the regulars, who, for whatever reason, decided to post as a guest. Why reveal the name of one anonymous poster and not the others? I don't understand why you would do this? It makes you look worse than a troll. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: Cluin Date: 17 Feb 06 - 09:04 PM When trolls are spotting, it's a bad idea to let them sit on the couch. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: GUEST,Joe Offer Date: 17 Feb 06 - 09:07 PM Well, dianavan, this situation is different, both in quantity and in the nature of the offense. Read what I said. No other Mudcatters post anonymously to this extent, and no other Mudcatters post both racist and anti-racist posts. The compulsive posting is another matter. The 50 posts in the last day is usual - I've seen up to 30 posts in half an hour. It's time for Mr. Murdoch to stop. And yes, I have noticed that you've been posting anonymously lately, for whatever reason - but so far, I haven't noticed you going anonymous to cause trouble. Anonymous posting for the purpose of causing trouble is not a right. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: number 6 Date: 17 Feb 06 - 09:14 PM Gnu .... I hesitate to post now. BTW, I'm Number 6 sometime know as just sIx, but have been guilty of sometimes posting under the handle GUEST GHOST OF. In all seriousness I agree with dianavan ... Joe I also think it was wrong to reveal the one name and not the others here in this thread ... did you warn this individual via PM on this issue first? Things are not going to be the same around here anymore. I still think all this would be non-existant if Guests were not allowed to post ... I know, I'm honking an old tired horn here. sIx
I resisted the tempatation to "out" Mr. Murdoch's anonymous posts until today, when he started a thread to complain about Mudcat "allowing" Nazi posts - some of which it appears he had posted himself - as "BNP Supportor." Bruce has had a good reputation in the folk community. I can't understand why he has decided to take advantage of Mudcatters by this sort of manipulative behavior. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: wysiwyg Date: 17 Feb 06 - 09:24 PM GUEST posting was designed to allow people barred from having cookies (such as, at work) to post and respond to MUSIC REQUESTS, not to facilitate sparring (at best) or causing trouble (to say it politely). And ALL posting here is a privilege, not a right. Complaints to the contrary sound, to me, JUST LIKE the way an alcoholic freaks out when their drinking is spoiled. So... maybe this would be the right approach for compulsive posters: The 12 Suggested Steps of Postoholics Anonymous 1. We admitted we were powerless over posts--that our lives had become unmanageable. 2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. 3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him. 4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. 5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs. 6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character. 7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings. 8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all. 9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. 10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it. 11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out. 12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to postoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs. -------------------------------------------------------------- From: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS The Story of How many Thousands of Men and Women Have Recovered from Alcoholism NEW AND REVISED EDITION (Second Edition) ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS PUBLISHING, INC. NEW YORK CITY 1955 pp. 59-60 ~Recovering Postoholic |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: Once Famous Date: 17 Feb 06 - 09:44 PM Hey this thread is fucking cool! Except I think Joe is protecting quite a few others who pose as Guests. Can't prove it, but also can't prove that I have 100s of PMs from friends here either. Don't like what I say? You're a troll! Don't like what I say? You're a nazi! Don't like what I say? You're a bigot! Don't like what I say? You're a Jew! And this is how it goes here. Ho Hum. Big fucking deal. This guy Old Possum should start his own forum where he can make it just how he wants. Right now we need a visit from Chongo. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: GUEST Date: 17 Feb 06 - 10:13 PM Group therapy is over. Everyone send me one hundred twenty dollars! Now GO HOME!!!!! This has gone far enough. This thread is closed! not a clnoehead but should be |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: Azizi Date: 18 Feb 06 - 12:17 AM Since this thread is still not closed, I want to say that there have been times that I have been the target of racist remarks here on Mudcat, as an individual but more so as a member of a racial group. A racist remark in a current thread and minimal outrage from posters on that thread about that comment has disturbed me so much that I son't feel that I can continue posting here anymore-or at least I feel the need for some time away from Mudcat. But before I leave, I feel I must speak out in response to several comments that were made in this Troll spotting thread. These comments are those posted about Peace {Brucie}. I'm concerned that any new member or guest reading this thread would have a completely negative viewpoint of Peace. The characterization made by Joe Offer in those posts aren't the Peace who I have grown to know through Mudcat threads and posts. More than most Mudcat regulars, Peace has helped guests and members research lyrics. IMO, his witty posts are among the best on Mudcat. Ditto his creative writing. Peace has written informative & thought proving comments. And he has been a champion that I and others can count on when racist Mudcat members and guests attack groups and individuals [as they have done to me as the only African American who posts on this forum]. Furthermore, in the one and a half years I've been posting on Mudcat, I've noticed that Peace has consistently offered support to members and guests who are going through a crisis. And I wonder if GUEST 17 Feb 06 - 08:10 PM was right on the money with his {her} comments...and I wholly agree with Dianavan's comments in her 17 Feb 06 - 08:54 PM. Also, I don't think that there are any Mudcat posting rules that I have read that stipulate how many posts a person can or should make in any given day or time period. Nor have I seen any policies that stipulate that a person should say what they want to say in one or two or three messages. I would like to take this opportunity to thank Peace for his research, his wit, his creativity, his information sharing, his support for others and his support for me against those who tried to make me feel unwelcome. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank Janie, katlaughing, Alba, and others for being there for me and helping me grow. All the best to you. from: Azizi aka Ms Azizi aka Sister Azizi aka Sista Azizi aka Azizi Powell |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: John MacKenzie Date: 18 Feb 06 - 05:48 AM Well as one can of worms closes another one opens. I'm quite sure that OP knew that this thread would go this way, cos they all do, it is not possible to hold a sensible discussion on the subject of trolls. As for the 'outing' of Bruce, I'm sorry Joe but if you're going to start that I shall begin to think of changing your surname to MacArthy. You have always said that it is not part of your remit to criticise, merely to edit and tidy-up where necessary, don't think that slamming a Mudcatter comes under either category. As someone who logs in every day, and who has got quite good at recognising some posters 'styles' I can often identify who Guests really are. I'll tell you, posting as a Guest is one thing, but posting under another Mudcatters name is entirely different, and I am pretty sure that one Mudcatter has done that, posing as more than one Catter, as well as posting against himself as a guest. So if you're going to condemn one person for doing it, surely in the best House Un-Mudcatian Affairs tradition others should be named. Sorry Joe, but it's getting near time to close this thread too. Giok |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: Big Al Whittle Date: 18 Feb 06 - 06:06 AM which thread upset Azizi? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 18 Feb 06 - 07:12 AM To clear up troll spots use BAM! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: number 6 Date: 18 Feb 06 - 07:33 AM Bravo Azizi and Giok!! I too have been upset with the way Peace has been singled out on this thread, he has been made the single scapegoat... and a a I mentioned in a previous post, the way this has been handled just leaves room for personal witchhunts and the innocent being the victims . ... Bruce he has been a good friend to me and to many others here ... also, as Azizi has mentioned there are no guidelines as to what the posting rules are here ... the Mudcat is an open forum, with no rules and even after many, many suggestions as to what can be made to improve it. sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: GUEST,8.10pm Date: 18 Feb 06 - 08:20 AM Thanks Joe for posting the link to the thread in question, that is exactly the one I was referring to in my post of 8.10pm. You can see by the thread that you deleted a huge chunk of posts. When I saw next day what you had done I even posted about it. It seemed strange that you would want someone to chance upon this forum and see a blatantly racist inspired thread appear to go unchallenged. It certainly didn't go unchallenged, but by you deleting so many posts ridiculing the BNP it appears that opposition to it wasn't quite as strong as in reality it was? I think bruce was very clever and used subtle means to expose the BNP for the filth they are. He cut and pasted their agenda which none of the BNP apologists would dare to. He made no racist remarks at all. I knew you had misread the intention of his postings. Mistakes happen. But I would bet my last dollar that Bruce does not have a racist bone in his body and to be accused of such is highly insulting? I think he is owed an apology, and flowers and chocolates and foot massages, or whatver he needs to lessen the hurt. Thanks azizi for understanding exactly what I was trying to explain in my post of 8.10pm. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: bobad Date: 18 Feb 06 - 08:31 AM Throwing in my two cents worth I would have to agree with those who feel that there is a certain amount of unfairness in the way Bruce has been outed. As others have mentioned there are no specific rules about posting as guests or number of posts per day so citing that as an infraction seems unfair. In the threads about the BNP, Bruce's intentions were honourable, even though you may not like his methods, and I must say that I support his responce to them, when you permit crap to post you should expect the thread to turn into a shitfest. In the evening where Bruce made 50 posts as himself and as guest, that you mention, I didn't see any maliciousness there, it appears to be all in good fun, so what's the problem ? Also, seeing that you reside in California, you may not be aware that at this time of the winter, up here in the Great White North, a serious case of cabin fever is hard to avoid so we may need to have some slack cut us on occasion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: GUEST,*daylia* Date: 18 Feb 06 - 08:31 AM Well if it's time for true confessions, be it known that I too log out and post as a GUEST sometimes, usually with some humourous (to me, anyway) handle. Just for fun mostly, but occasionally I've done it because I felt more comfortable posting anonymously, for whatever reason. Certain people on this site seem to make it their business to blast anything I say, just because it's me that said it. But I've discovered, over the last couple years, that it really doesn't matter what name I post under, if any -- when all's said and done I don't feel any different, and the song remains the same. Now, how about changing keys a bit here? Let's try a few bright, uplifting major chords, for a few bars anyway! All this dissonance and doom and gloom just begs for resolution ... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: gnu Date: 18 Feb 06 - 08:44 AM I'm with you, daylia. I resolutely resolve to go sing at a few bars today. That is, if the wind dies down and the temperature warms up. If not, I am going to sit tight here in my cabin and feverishly post my ass off. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: GUEST Date: 18 Feb 06 - 09:10 AM And as for the call in this thread to close it, think about what you are saying please. By letting it run we can see what misunderstanding led to Joe's comments. Genuine explanations are neither inflammatory or uncivilised. We are adults here and have choices as to what we read. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: number 6 Date: 18 Feb 06 - 09:10 AM Yes ... I agree it is cabin fever time of the year up hear .... if one notices, the posts by Peace are usually 1 liners, if not 1 worders. They are short and to the point, usually of the humourus in nature ... it's a Canadian thing. Six.. who went out to brave the elements this morning for some photo taking but didn't last long as it is cold as the bejeezuz here today. Now I'm sitting here on the laptop posting in the Mudcat. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: kendall Date: 18 Feb 06 - 09:10 AM I too sometimes post as Guest because I often delete all cookies to speed up the computer, and I usually don't bother to say it was I. So purge me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: John MacKenzie Date: 18 Feb 06 - 09:21 AM There ya go Kendall, consider yerself purged, and if that fails try a kilo of fresh figs, that'll clear ya out! Giok |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: Beer Date: 18 Feb 06 - 09:43 AM Mudcat has been a blessing in discised for me and I'm sure to many others. I have met some great individuals through this fantastice site most by the written word and a few in person because of it. I've even opened my doors to a family of five from England. I'm not an every day contributor but I usually do check out what is being said. For about a month I have been seriously thinking of packing it in. Reason being that there is just to much negative comments being made. When I see a topic of interest I open it up only to find after a few threads that it begins to turn negative. I have at times given my opinion for what it is worth only to be replied back by some crude remark. It's almost as if to say "You don't belong on this thread, go somewhere else". I don't answer back as it would be only to feed into it. I usually just bow out and not return. The only thread that I think I may have gotten upset was in one of the political post during the Canadian elections. Joe, I don't know you but do appreciate what you are doing for Mudcat. I do not appreciate what you have said about Bruce. Bruce has become an unseen friend and one whom I hope to meet in person in the not to distance future. There are a number of great members on this site and I fear that some will leave and not come back. Not to long ago "Little Hawk" posted a thread on how to handle negative comments. And basically he said that one should just agree whith them. Well another way is to not answer them at all but just ignore their comments. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: Beer Date: 18 Feb 06 - 09:48 AM Hit the wrong button. Didn't even try and correct my spelling. Sorry. In closing I also agree that Bruce deserves an apology. I do hope this will take place because if we happen to loose Bruce others will follow. Beer (Adrien) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: Ron Davies Date: 18 Feb 06 - 09:49 AM Azizi--sure hope you don't really leave. You're always fun to read, clear-thinking and informative. Please don't let some idiot's remark--which I don't even remember seeing--drive you away. If I had seen it, I would have stuck up for you--as, I'm sure, many others here, who believe in sticking up for themselves and others, would have also. I don't ever post from work--so if it was during the day, I may not even have seen it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: Ron Davies Date: 18 Feb 06 - 09:51 AM I also think Bruce is a great asset to Mudcat and a great guy--sounds like there was a misunderstanding |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: Raptor Date: 18 Feb 06 - 10:08 AM A lot of people are complaining about the cat going downhill lately. The best way to combat the negative is to post upbeat posts and threads that make you happy. I try not to go to threads that contain stuff that might be heated, Althuogh I started one about the Canadian Election(Sorry). I try to discuss things that make me Happy... Birdwatching, Skiing, Canoeing, Bugging Little Hawk(he's my brother). Some threads get me going and I usualy make an ass of myself when I get excited( Canadian Politics), So i try to avoid them. I do enjoy this site and the work by those who make it work. Raptor |
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Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting From: LilyFestre Date: 18 Feb 06 - 10:12 AM Personally, it makes me quite happy to know that Brucie posts so often! His posts are humorous and intelligent....I say let's have MORE of them! :) I'm with many of the folks here who support Brucie. I don't give a hoot if he posted as a Guest or not. I've known Brucie long enough to know that he is a kind, loving, tender soul who often extends his hand to others who may need it. If you are going to talk about Brucie, let's point those kinds of things out. Sure, we all have off days or respond to people who irritate us but for the most part, Brucie has brought information and some great laughs...not to mention his music and knowledge!!! Brucie, you know I just love ya... Give it a big old eyeroll and come 'on back...I'll be waiting and watching for you. :) Michelle |