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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 19 Apr 08 - 09:12 PM Uh Bobert. The entire world has already figured out that Obama was referencing the Jay Z song, while you were at work, apparently. From the MTV Newsroom site: Obama Finds His Inner Jigga, Scores Zillion More 'Youth' Votes 28 Comments | Published by MTV News on Friday, April 18, 2008 at 12:22 pm. We've seen Democratic Presidential candidate Barack Obama bust some moves on Ellen DeGeneres' show, and they did not fly. But after the shellacking he took during Wednesday night's Democratic debate — which has been roundly dissed for its tabloid-style focus on old skeletons in the closet — Obama used Thursday to tap into his inner Jigga. In this mash-up video that's been making the rounds, Obama is seen tipping his hat to Jay-Z's 2003 track "Dirt Off Your Shoulder" by brushing off the comments made by rival Hillary Clinton. Jay's "Moment of Clarity" thumps under a highlight reel of Clinton and Wednesday night's moderators bashing Obama before the music swells. That's when "Dirt" comes in, as Obama explains to a crowd (in a speech yesterday) that when you're running for the presidency, you have to just "kind of expect" the attacks. That's when he brushes a bit of dirt off his shoulder — and makes hip-hop history. We kind of agree that this may be "the coolest subliminal cultural reference in the history of American politics." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 19 Apr 08 - 09:15 PM From Ari Melber's page at HuffPo: Obama Meets Jay-Z in YouTube Mashup Slamming Clinton & Debate Posted April 17, 2008 | 10:40 PM (EST) Barack Obama is clearly taking that abysmal ABC News debate in stride. He told his supporters not to fret about all the "textbook Washington" drama on Thursday, recounting the superficial moderators and Hillary Clinton's attempts to "twist the knife" on trivial issues. Then Obama made pop cultural history, miming the rapper Jay-Z's iconic hand signal to "brush the dirt" off his shoulders. That popular youth gesture grew out of "Dirt Off Your Shoulder," a hit song in 2003. As Wikipedia explains, it refers to "getting enemies off your chest by brushing your shoulders off." Blogger Spencer Ackerman, who regularly mixes political analysis with hip hop references, immediately heralded the move as "perhaps the coolest subliminal cultural reference in the history of American politics." A YouTube clip of the cultural moment, uploaded by the Obama Campaign, swiftly drew over 100,000 views on Thursday. And then the mashups started. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 19 Apr 08 - 09:17 PM Here is an excerpt from today's Washington Post: Obama Has Jay-Z on His IPod and The Moves To Prove It Video Obama Brushes Off Debate Jabs "CBS News RAW": Campaigning in Raleigh, N.C., Barack Obama speaks about the ABC debate, saying Hillary Clinton "looked in her element. She was taking every opportunity to get a dig in there." » LAUNCH VIDEO PLAYER TOOLBOX Resize Text Save/Share + Digg Newsvine del.icio.us Stumble It! myspace Yahoo! Buzz Print This E-mail This COMMENT washingtonpost.com readers have posted 150 comments about this item. View All Comments » POST A COMMENT You must be logged in to leave a comment. Log in | Register Why Do I Have to Log In Again? Log In Again? CLOSE We've made some updates to washingtonpost.com's Groups, MyPost and comment pages. We need you to verify your MyPost ID by logging in before you can post to the new pages. We apologize for the inconvenience. Discussion Policy Discussion Policy CLOSE Comments that include profanity or personal attacks or other inappropriate comments or material will be removed from the site. Additionally, entries that are unsigned or contain "signatures" by someone other than the actual author will be removed. Finally, we will take steps to block users who violate any of our posting standards, terms of use or privacy policies or any other policies governing this site. Please review the full rules governing commentaries and discussions. You are fully responsible for the content that you post. Who's Blogging » Links to this article By Teresa Wiltz Washington Post Staff Writer Saturday, April 19, 2008; Page C01 Perhaps this is what the Funkmeister -- that other Clinton -- meant when he sang about painting the White House black: There's Barack Obama, fresh from Wednesday's debate dust-up, beleaguered but still standing, acknowledging that he's taken some hits from his opponent, some mighty hits, but you know, it's okay, because that's politics. Ultimately, you've got to . . . And then he -- pay attention now -- brushes the dirt off his shoulders. Repeatedly. The crowd leaps to its feet, applauding and laughing. Talk about a major Jay-Z move. People, we're talking about a seminal moment in the campaign, the merging of politics and pop culture: in which a presidential candidate -- a self-confessed hip-hop head and Jay-Z fan -- references a rap hit and a dance move. Within hours, there were video mash-ups on the Web depicting Obama dusting himself off as Jay-Z urges, "If you feelin' like a pimp . . . go and brush your shoulders off. . . . Get that dirt off your shoulder." (In one mash-up, the heads of Bill and Hillary Clinton, Charlie Gibson and George Stephanopoulos roll off the Illinois senator's broad shoulders.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 19 Apr 08 - 09:21 PM Ooops. My bad. Hit submit instead of the preview. Everything above: By Teresa Wiltz Washington Post Staff Writer Saturday, April 19, 2008; Page C01 should be deleted. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: pdq Date: 19 Apr 08 - 09:29 PM I believe Janet wanted to post the following: By Teresa Wiltz Washington Post Staff Writer Saturday, April 19, 2008 Perhaps this is what the Funkmeister -- that other Clinton -- meant when he sang about painting the White House black: There's Barack Obama, fresh from Wednesday's debate dust-up, beleaguered but still standing, acknowledging that he's taken some hits from his opponent, some mighty hits, but you know, it's okay, because that's politics. Ultimately, you've got to . . . And then he -- pay attention now -- brushes the dirt off his shoulders. Repeatedly. The crowd leaps to its feet, applauding and laughing. Talk about a major Jay-Z move. People, we're talking about a seminal moment in the campaign, the merging of politics and pop culture: in which a presidential candidate -- a self-confessed hip-hop head and Jay-Z fan -- references a rap hit and a dance move. Within hours, there were video mash-ups on the Web depicting Obama dusting himself off as Jay-Z urges, "If you feelin' like a pimp . . . go and brush your shoulders off. . . . Get that dirt off your shoulder." (In one mash-up, the heads of Bill and Hillary Clinton, Charlie Gibson and George Stephanopoulos roll off the Illinois senator's broad shoulders.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: Don Firth Date: 19 Apr 08 - 09:33 PM Yeah, you do work for Karl Rove. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 19 Apr 08 - 09:35 PM Did I mention he only does this sort of thing in southern states? That the 'move' in question was done during a North Carolina speech, and not done in PA? Today he was looking a lot like Michael Dukakis in the tank, on the back of a train car used by the Democratic nominees in PA, while campaigning in Lancaster, PA? The heart of "bitter, small town, gun and god loving, rural PA? Yeah, get Obama out of the city, and he looks like what he is: an urbane Harvard snob, stuck at the home of distant relatives he looks down upon with contempt. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: pdq Date: 19 Apr 08 - 09:38 PM I went to eBay and checked the CDs for sale. If you combine Rap, Disco, DJ and Hip Hop, they represent less than 6% of the CDs being offered. That is a reasonable guess as to the number of Urban Stink Noise fans in the US. They can all get lost, as far as I am concerned. It isn't just the content that is offensive, but the fact that it is blasted in the face of people who don't want to hear it. (BOOM, BOOM) Die Honky Mutha Fukkah is offensive. I do not want a president who thinks otherwise. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: Don Firth Date: 19 Apr 08 - 09:41 PM You do love to wallow in manure, don't you, Janet!? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 19 Apr 08 - 09:51 PM Not a hip hop fan, Don? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: Don Firth Date: 19 Apr 08 - 10:00 PM That's not what I'm referring to. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 19 Apr 08 - 10:11 PM The Obama camp is currently referring to ANYONE who challenges the Official Obama is the Next Political Messiah message, as working for the Republicans. So, your point is? What are you referring to exactly, Don? I'm quoting from mainstream sources here. The problem you have with folks here trying to discuss what we think about Obama as the first hip hop generation president is...? It is what it is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 20 Apr 08 - 08:53 AM From our local rag City Pages: Obama: Our first hip hop presidential candidate Filed under: Barack Obama Several months back, I happened across an interview with Obama on BET entitled, "What's In It For Us? Barack Obama And the Black Vote." What really stunned me was when Barack started talking about being a fan of hip hop, including Jay-Z's new album, American Gangster: I love the art of hip hop. I don't always love the message of hip hop. There are times when even ... with the artists I named -- the artists I love, you know -- there's a message that is not only sometimes degrading to women; not only uses the n-word a little too frequently; but also something I'm really concerned about, it's always talking about material things. Always talking about how I can get something. How I've got more money... This was in stark contrast to most politicians, who can't denounce hip hop fast enough. I thought this was truly a revolutionary moment--our first hip hop presidential candidate. To me, it represented Generation X penetrating the political establishment, much like JFK was for the baby boomers. I was reminded of that yesterday when I was watching TV and saw Obama mime Jay-Z and brush the dirt off his shoulder in reference to ABC's embarrassingly shallow debate. Apparently, I wasn't the only one who picked up on the reference, because there's now this amazing YouTube mashup that features Jay-Z's Black Album banger as a soundtrack: [You Tube Video] I love the bald black dude over Obama's right shoulder who gets the reference immediately and starts pointing like he's in the front row of a hip hop concert. Obama's got 99 problems, but Hillary ain't one. Posted by Kevin Hoffman at April 18, 2008 4:13 PM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 20 Apr 08 - 08:57 AM And this is a short excerpt from a long article about this dynamic in today's San Francisco Chronicle: 'Millennial Generation' set to rock the vote Carla Marinucci, Chronicle Political Writer Sunday, April 20, 2008 No, Illinois Sen. Barack Obama hasn't been in the habit of wearing an American flag on his lapel. Yes, he's got some controversial acquaintances and has made some slipups lately about working Americans who "cling" to religion. So won't it be easy for Republican Sen. John McCain, Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton - and the media - to keep painting Obama as an ultraliberal elitist who is out of touch with American values and working people? In another era - when Baby Boomers were the overwhelmingly dominant generation - maybe so. But with just two days until Pennsylvania kicks off the final round of primaries, political observers say there's clear evidence that the election of 2008 represents a new universe - and a new generation - when it comes to White House contests. And the political phenomenon of Barack Obama is symbolic of the game-changing attitudes and growing influence to be wielded by the upcoming generation of "Millennial" voters - the largest and most diverse generation in American history, born between 1982 and 2003 - who already are helping to shape the race. Authors Morley Winograd and Michael Hais, who just released "Millennial Makeover: MySpace, YouTube and the Future of American Politics," a book that examines the seismic generational and cultural realignments at play on the political stage this year, say the political pileups of the past week represent a perfect example of how the 20-somethings have managed to reshape conventional politics in the current race for the White House. There was Obama's brouhaha over the "bitter" comments in San Francisco - fueled by Clinton, McCain and the media - followed by a rough Philadelphia debate in which Clinton got tough and ABC moderators got tougher, peppering him about his recent stumbles and gaffes. That looked to be a perfect storm that might have swamped a first-time presidential candidate, but it wasn't Obama who took the body blows. Instead, ABC's George Stephanopoulos and Charles Gibson, the journalists, were publicly pummeled for "gotcha games," and Clinton came away with nary a new superdelegate in her pocket. Nothing sticking Meanwhile, Obama literally brushed it all off as the old way of doing things, while both Pennsylvania and national polls appear to suggest that none of it has stuck to him. Indeed, he looks even stronger, said Winograd, a former senior adviser to Vice President Al Gore during the Clinton administration. Twenty-somethings "are driving the presidential race in a huge way," said Annemarie Stephens, an organizer for the youth-oriented "Nation for Change" rally to celebrate Obama's campaign today at Frank Ogawa Plaza in Oakland. The event, which will star gospel, hip-hop and ethnic musicians - like similar rallies planned in nearly all 50 states today - has been put together almost entirely on the Internet, she said. "People are concerned about the well-being of this country," she said. "It's no longer politics as usual; we're not going to stand for the pettiness." Jordan D'Amato, 20, a political science major at UC Berkeley and one of the "Millennial Generation," says coming of age in an era of the two-term presidency of George W. Bush has had a clear impact on his political outlook. "I think the country is headed in the wrong direction, and there have been monumental failures, like the war in Iraq," the health care system and the economy, he said. Obama, he said, has "run a very successful campaign so far, proposing a message of hope" to address those issues. "So when he makes a slipup, and people point out his relationship to Jeremiah Wright," the senator's controversial former pastor, "you say, 'Yes, he has faults.' " But, D'Amato said, Obama isn't influenced by pundits and politicians "trying to pick him apart." The apparent inability of Clinton and McCain to influence voters like D'Amato and blunt Obama's trajectory underscores the different world and political view of the "Millennial Generation," which some have suggested looks increasingly like the "Obamanation." Unlike their Boomer parents - those millions of 50- and 60-something activists born of protest and conflict who accept politics as a blood sport - the younger generation has come of age in an era of burgeoning new technologies providing tangible evidence of the promise of change. "Unlike the conservative Gen-Xers who preceded them, or the harshly divided Baby Boomer Generation, the Millennials are united across gender and race in their desire to find win-win solutions to America's problems," Winograd and Hais write. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 20 Apr 08 - 09:11 AM But in a very poignant Old School moment this weekend in North Carolina, Maya Angelou endorsed Hilary Clinton. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: artbrooks Date: 20 Apr 08 - 09:27 AM "The Obama camp is currently referring to ANYONE who challenges the Official Obama is the Next Political Messiah message, as working for the Republicans." Should one assume that includes Senator Clinton? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: Bobert Date: 20 Apr 08 - 09:29 AM Hip-hop, rap er not... No bustin' fir dustin' Mah mama did it Mah daddy did it too You talk that funky sh*t I be walkin' away from you |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 20 Apr 08 - 09:48 AM Yes artbrooks, Obama himself is leading this charge, and accusing Clinton regularly of being in the Republican camp, using the Republican rule book, of 'knifing' him and 'twisting the knife' (if you look at the You Tube video of the North Carolina speech, it may or may not include all the references he made, because it doesn't show the whole speech. But when he compares Clinton's criticism of him to a knife fight? Yeah, well...that IS the game of politics, isn't it? Like I said, it is what it is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 20 Apr 08 - 09:51 AM It is pretty disheartening to see that no one is willing to engage in a conversation about the generational dynamics of Obama winning the nomination (which is a near certainty at this point). There are a number of substantial articles from the MSM that people here so love to quote from, discussing this very thing this weekend, as the San Francisco Chronicle excerpt shows. Are people here so anti-youth and so anti-hip hop that they can't bring themselves to even talk about it? Do you think this isn't going to be a centerpiece of the Obama campaign come summer & the convention? There is the Hip Hop Summit going on in Philly this weekend to get out the youth vote. What is the problem here? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: artbrooks Date: 20 Apr 08 - 10:05 AM Perhaps the problem is that too many people here see your definition of a "conversation" as providing an opportunity for you to rudely and obscenely stuff the other party's opinion down their throat. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: Bobert Date: 20 Apr 08 - 10:05 AM Like I said on another thread, some things that are said and sung within the hip-hop/rap culture are offensive... I don't want an angry young man who thinks it's okay to call women "bitches" in my tent and I don't think Obma wants that angry ytoung man's vote... But I'm not accusing all rap/hip hoppers here... My son writes some very good rap and is a purdy darned good rapper and actually performed one of his compositions with me at a festival I was doing but he wouldn't use the term "boy" in refe3rring to a black man or "bitch" when referring to a woman or suggest hurting or killing people...That's a matter of values... But with that said, I wouldn't mind hearing what Obama has to say about such language and threats of violence... B~ p.s. Maybe my son will stop in here and share some of his stuff... As a song writer/poet myself I think it's purdy good... But it ain't imflamatory... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 20 Apr 08 - 10:10 AM I provided you that opportunity, Bobert, early on in this thread. Here, again, is the link to a You Tube video interview with Barack Obama talking about hip hop in general, and his love of Jay Z's music in particular: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFSVG7jRp_g And as to the use of obscenities, that don't bother me a bit (in case y'all haven't noticed that about me yet). If you don't like cussin' you shouldn't read MY posts, that's fer sure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 20 Apr 08 - 10:15 AM artbrooks, most people come here looking for agreement and support from the Mudcat forum. But that ain't me, babe. Paint me controversial and provocative, and you'll get a far more accurate picture of who I am. And I don't apologize for it, either. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 20 Apr 08 - 10:36 AM And Bobert, I provided the lyrics to the Jay Z song Obama referenced above in this thread. It is full of muthafucka, nigga, bitches and ho, etc etc. So, based upon your statement "I don't want an angry young man who thinks it's okay to call women "bitches" in my tent and I don't think Obma wants that angry ytoung man's vote..." I guess Obama ain't yer man after all, huh? Cuz Jay Z is a main hip hop endorser of Obama, and the Obama campaign is using him to do phone calling to get out the vote, as this You Tube video shows, that plays the audio from the phone call in the Ohio primary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp-2XEQtB_o So not only is Jay Z in The Tent, he is the hip hop mogul leading the charge for Obama, but I guess it is time for you to look around and see who is actually sitting next to you in the Obama tent. It ain't just you hillbilly radicals (sic) anymore, Bobert. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 20 Apr 08 - 10:42 AM And one more link about the Jay Z Obama robocall to HipHop4Prez webpage at SOHH.com (which hosts one of the biggest online hip hop forums on the web). http://blogs.sohh.com/hiphop4prez/2008/03/hiphop4prez_exclusive_jay_z_dr.html Of course, that is pretty old news. The new news headline is that Foxy is straight outta Rikers this weekend. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: Bobert Date: 20 Apr 08 - 11:10 AM As fir cussing, hey, I can live with a little of it... As fir the lyrics, I'll have to download them when I have more time... My computer is v-e-r-y slow... BTW, Fantz... I wouldn't vote for you for president and wouldn't vote for Obama if he had yer views... As for dusting, it is Biblical and has been part of the black culture going back to long before Obama was born... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 20 Apr 08 - 11:18 AM Bobert, how dumb do you think we all are? You read the lyrics, I posted them above, and you were the first person who posted after the lyrics post. Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 19 Apr 08 - 08:48 PM Praise the lord, Bobert. Here are the lyrics to the Jay Z song getting mashed up on You Tube w/the Obama video: You're now tuned into the muh'fuckin greatest Turn the music up in the headphones Tim, you can go and brush your shoulder off nigga I got you, yeah [Chorus: Jay-Z] If you feelin like a pimp nigga, go and brush your shoulders off Ladies is pimps too, go and brush your shoulders off Niggaz is crazy baby, don't forget that boy told you Get, that, dirt off your shoulder [Verse One] I probably owe it to y'all, proud to be locked by the force Tryin to hustle some things, that go with the Porsche Feelin no remorse, feelin like my hand was forced Middle finger to the law, nigga grip'n my balls All the ladies they love me, from the bleachers they screamin All the ballers is bouncin they like the way I be leanin All the rappers be hatin, off the track that I'm makin But all the hustlers they love it just to see one of us make it Came from the bottom the bottom, to the top of the pots Nigga London, Japan and I'm straight off the block Like a running back, get it man, I'm straight off the block I can run it back nigga cause I'm straight with the Roc [Chorus] [Chorus Two] You gotta get, that, dirt off your shoulder You gotta get, that, dirt off your shoulder You gotta get, that, dirt off your shoulder You gotta get, that, dirt off your shoulder [Verse Two] Your homey Hov' in position, in the kitchen with soda I just whipped up a watch, tryin to get me a Rover Tryin to stretch out the coca, like a wrestler, yessir Keep the Heckler close, you know them smokers'll test ya But like, fifty-two cards when I'm, I'm through dealin Now fifty-two bars come out, now you feel 'em Now, fifty-two cars roll out, remove ceiling In case fifty-two broads come out, now you chillin with a boss bitch of course S.C. on the sleeve At the 40/40 club, ESPN on the screen I paid a grip for the jeans, plus the slippers is clean No chrome on the wheels, I'm a grown-up for real [Chorus + Chorus Two] [Verse Three] Your boy back in the building, Brooklyn we back on the map Me and my beautiful beeeeeeeitch in the back of that 'Bach I'm the realest that run it, I just happen to rap I ain't gotta clap at 'em, niggaz scared of that black I drop that +Black, Album+ then I back, out it As the best rapper alive nigga ask about me From Bricks to Billboards, from grams to Grammys The O's to opposite, Orphan Annie You gotta pardon Jay, for sellin out the Garden in a day I'm like a young Marvin in his hey' I'm a hustler homey, you a customer crony Got some, dirt on my shoulder, could you brush it off for me? [Chorus + Chorus Two] You're now tuned into the muh'fuckin greatest Best rapper alive, best rapper alive |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: Charley Noble Date: 20 Apr 08 - 12:03 PM Janet- It's just the same old "guilt by association" trip that rears its ugly head up here there and everywhere in this campaign. You do it yourself to provoke comment, and you generally succeed. Whatever! Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: Bobert Date: 20 Apr 08 - 12:11 PM "Best Rapper Alive"??? Well, Fantz, like my daddy used to say, I reckon that's what makes for a horse race... Different opinions... I'd put mu son's rap up against this stuff an' my son's stuff went over well with a predominantly white (and rural) crowd... The music business is a crap shoot... The best don't necessarilly make it to the top... It's more like hitting the lottery becasue of media consolidation like ClearChannel... I know this first hand... I've been in and out of a performing musicain going back to the 60's... I know folks who have "made it" that aren't near as good as folks who ain't... I reckon that's why I didn't finish reading Jay-Z's lyrics because I didn't find them appealing or acceptable... I think he could say the things without the inflmatory stuff... But then again, okay, maybe I'm of Jay-Z's daddy or grand-daddy's erra... An erra where women weren't "beeeches", black folks were "niggas" and no ome were "mf'ers"... As for "dustin'"... I remember when I learned that lesson and who taught it to me... It was like '68 and several this black, articulate, minster was working for R-CAP, (Richmond Community Action Program) where I was being paid (haha) as a communitty organizer... There were three or four of us rowdy radicals in a meeting with this minister... We all just knew him as Joe... But we youngins were talkin' trash... You know, the current revolutionary rhetoric od the day and Joe wnt into a little Dr. King-ish sermon about putting distance between ourselves and folks who were preachin' violence and during that sermon he took his right hand and swept it not accross his sholder but accross the lapel on his suit jacket... It must have been a very meaningfull lesson as it still burns in my memory... Culure is evolutionary for the most part but like in a plant it will on occasion "sport" (think disco here) and then get back on the path... I'm not saying that hip-hop is a "sport" but I am suggesting that some the the language, along with the imagery, will one day be looked upon as dated and innappropriate... Does it disturb me that Obama would us a jesture which is founded in the black culture going back generations??? Well, no, it doesn't... Does it disturb me that Obama can do some of the current dances??? Well, no... Would it disturb me if Obama referred to his wife, Micelle, as a "bitch"... Yeah, and enough to make me a former Obama supporter... Face it, in this tribalized world where rock throwing Palestinians kids wear Air Jordons, we are are somewhat interlocked in a global culture and we pick and choose from a vast menu of choices, entertainment and product... But with each choice there are all these off-shoots and when one gets into them things can get very murky... That is purdy much what has happened here with this "dust-up"... Something rather benign compared to real issues gets pushed out in front as if it is the Holy Grail while the real issues get the back seat... This is the politics of division and destraction that Obama so very well articulates... But like I said, that's what makes a horse race... There are a lot of folks who have seen where diastractions and pea-under-the-shell games have gotten US and if I'm a bettin' man then I'd have to put my bet on the voters not buying the same old crap... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 20 Apr 08 - 12:20 PM Bobert, the 'best rapper alive' is part of the lyrics. Charley, if I was posting this thread in January, your point would be legitimate. However, it was Obama's actions in the wake of last week's debate that has prompted a flood of MSM responses, articles, and rushed "in depth" pieces on the generational effects of this election. Am I provocative? Yes. But that isn't the same thing as engaging in guilt by association. You yourself said you knew nothing about Jay Z, "the move" by Obama on Thursday, the mashups on You Tube, the campaign using targeted robocalls by hip hoppers to reach the youth vote... Come down off your high horses, people. It is clear you all didn't have ANY of this shit on your radar about Obama. If you did, you would be able to talk about it. Me? I think it is as meaningful as Bill Clinton being the first baby boomer elected president--the rock and roll president--the first presidential candidate to appear on late night TV (on the Arsenio Hall Show), and on MTV. This isn't racist bullshit or guilt by association. This is about how the game is played today, whether the dinofolk around here want to accept or not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 20 Apr 08 - 12:26 PM NO ONE has suggested that Obama's "Brush the Dirt Off" gesture had anything to do with "a jesture which is founded in the black culture going back generations". No one, except you, of course. All the easier to make your spinning rationalizations work, so you can continue to believe in the Obamanation, despite the hip hop ties you claim to hate. And Bobert, your spinning is looking pretty damn desperate. What is the matter with just being honest about your disappointment and uneasiness? Oh right, you are a black and white, all or nothing kind of guy. No nuances and complexities for the Mudcat hillbilly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: Ron Davies Date: 20 Apr 08 - 12:32 PM Janet-- "I started this thread" to discuss what Obama's candidacy means to the political zeitgeist.. Uh, sorry, you misspelled that. You actually started it since you're still full of impotent rage against the world in general and Obama in particular. Have you considered starting your own website?--"Impotent Raging Alleged Feminists" Who knows--maybe your site won't be just a soliloquy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: Donuel Date: 20 Apr 08 - 12:40 PM IT seems to me that the Republican party always takes great interest in the penis of democratic Presidents. I remember getting CNN and FOX updates on the findings by the White House physician that Bill Clinton's penis was normal. How long will it take for the Republicans to take on Obama's penis??? Perhaps they are concerned it will be too big an issue to even bring up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: Ron Davies Date: 20 Apr 08 - 12:41 PM Though, admittedly, Janet, you're the only person I know who qualifies. Except possibly for the head of the New York chapter of NOW--you remember her--the one who described Ted Kennedy's support of Obama as "the ultimate betrayal". Perhaps you and she can have fun sputtering about various outrages. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 20 Apr 08 - 12:42 PM Or perhaps you are a bit too fixated with yours? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: Amos Date: 20 Apr 08 - 12:50 PM What's so offensive about the JayZ lyrics posted below? I think they be cool. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,TIA Date: 20 Apr 08 - 12:50 PM I just reread the opening post. Seems to me this thread was started so that the author could 1) demonstrate that she was more hip and in-tune with today's youth than the rest of us old farts, and 2) create further opportunities to rail against Obama supporters. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 20 Apr 08 - 01:09 PM Yes, I was a bit fresh, wasn't I? I happen to work in an inner city school of mostly African American kids, who were doing the brush off all day on Friday. When I asked them who they were brushin' off (knowing the Jay Z song, and that they rarely do that gesture themselves, even though their parents might), they told me their version of the Obama speech. Which didn't exactly match the Washington Post version of events, but what the hell. I am not of the hip hop generation, my daughter is. And she is only marginally into hip hop, preferring punk. But I live and work in the inner city, in an African American majority community. I am around this stuff all the time. Does that make me cooler than thou? Only if you are into that sort of thing, which I'm not. But the point is, I have it on my radar. Most people here, don't seem to, hence the divide. I don't see Obama in the same way the majority white population of Mudcat sees him--that has been clear from the beginning. But then, I don't see John McCain the same way the majority white population of Mudcat sees him-- Or Hilary Clinton the same way the majority white population of Mudcat sees her-- Or Ralph Nader the same way the majority white population of Mudcat sees him-- And I hate Al Gore and John Kerry too--while must of the majority white population of Mudcat voted for them. I didn't. So, we aren't ever going to see things the same way. That doesn't bother me one bit, but it sure bothers the majority of you who come here to find people who agree with you, and never challenge your opinions. C'est l'internet. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,lox Date: 20 Apr 08 - 01:34 PM Fantasma, The problem I find when I read through this thread (yes and follow the links) is that it is full of Hot Air and attempts to make sense of it. "Come down off your high horses, people. It is clear you all didn't have ANY of this shit on your radar about Obama. If you did, you would be able to talk about it." There's nothing to say. He did it - it was funny - cool even - but sooo last week baby. It won't start a revolution. The most you can say about it politically is that it might have the effect of encouraging young people to get more interested in politics. What it proves about you and/or other mudcatters is out of my radar. We know that people here like folk cos it's a folk site. Is that a surprise to you? Do you think that people here expect a folk president? Do you think people here are going to change their view of Obama out of Shock? Oh my God - we didn't realize he liked ... aaaaaahhhh ... RAP! Quick lets get chicken licken. ducky lucky, goosey loosey, etc etc etc and tell thhe president ... ... AAAAHHHHH ... Obama might be president one day!!!!!! People on this site are (sadly for you) mutidimensional and not so easily pigeon holed I'm afraid and you will find consistently that attempts to do so will meet only with the type of responses you have received so far. I asked you before what point you were trying to illustrate by posting the lyrics. Same question, only differently phrased ... ... what are you on about? ... Are you perhaps trying to say that Obama's use of Black Music is a cynical exploitation of his own culture to try and garner support from Black Voters? How should he act? Here is my extensive and well thought out response to the substantive aspect of thhis thread. ready? Thanks for the link. ... erm ... .. that's it ... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 20 Apr 08 - 01:43 PM Look, it's a ready to rumble thing. Are Mudcat Obama supporters ready to go door knocking for the first hip hop president, or not? Obama through down the gauntlet last Thursday in North Carolina. You ready to rumble with him to get him elected? Cuz the right wing is already using this one in their attack ads. This is what it is going to take to get him elected in the general. Time to educate yourselves about YOUR guy. By summer, it's going to be about working the street. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 20 Apr 08 - 02:02 PM And it will be one and long hot summer for our inner city kids in St Paul this year, as they play cat and mouse with the cops, in the lead up to the RNC. I shudder to think what will happen to some of those kids this summer, when the cops come down on our neighborhood like a ton of bricks, to make the streets safe for Republicans. That is what 'Straight Outta Compton' and 'Fuck da Police' was all about--and thanks to everyone willing to censor every damn thing they don't like (especially here at Mudcat), it ain't exactly gonna be the St Paul Summer of Love. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 20 Apr 08 - 02:06 PM And here is a little reminder from the MTV Rock the Vote website: A Brief History of Banned Music in the United States In 1957, producers of the Ed Sullivan show decide that Elvis Presley can only be filmed from the waist up because of that special way he wiggles his hips. ----- In 1966, Beatles albums are banned—and burned—after John Lennon proclaims that the band is more popular than Jesus. ----- In 1968, radio stations in El Paso, Texas ban all Bob Dylan records because they can't understand a darn thing he's singing and think he might just be saying something that they don't like. ----- In 1981, Olivia Newton John makes the folks in Salt Lake City a little too hot and heavy with her song "Physical" and it gets yanked from the airwaves in the city. ----- Tipper Gore starts the Parents Music Resource Center (PMRC) in 1985 to "encourage" record labels to monitor and rate their releases. ----- In 1987, Jello Biafra of The Dead Kennedys is found not guilty of distributing pornography. The case is based on the album artwork for "Frankenchrist". However, the ruling comes after copies of the album have already been seized and destroyed. ----- In 1990, the FBI lets rap group NWA know that they do not appreciate their song "Fuck the Police." ----- That same year, record store employees are busted for selling copies of Two Live Crew albums in Florida, Alabama, and Tennessee. Members of the band, including front man Luther Campbell, are prosecuted for performing the "offensive" songs in concert. ----- Wal-Mart bans a Sheryl Crow (a Rock the Vote board member) record because she makes her less than favorable opinion on their gun sales policy known. ----- In 1997, the powers that be at Giants Stadium in New Jersey refuse to host OzzFest because Marilyn Manson is scheduled to perform—but the courts rule that they don't have the right to do so. ----- In 1998, C-Bo is arrested for parole violation for including a lyric which criticizes California's "three strikes and you're out" law. According to the powers that be, the lyric advocated gang violence or violence against the police. ----- In 2001, following the September 11th terrorist attacks, Clear Channel Communications, the largest owner of radio stations in the United States, releases a list of more than 150 "lyrically questionable" songs that station's may want to pull from their playlists. Few songs portray explicit violence, but most have metaphoric themes that ring a bit too close to the tragedies. The list, containing music from almost every genre in popular music, includes Sugar Ray's "Fly," "Jet Airliner" by Steve Miller, Nine Inch Nails' ; "Head Like a Hole," AC/DC 's "Shoot to Thrill" and "Highway to Hell," Pat Benatar's "Hit Me with Your Best Shot," "Dust in the Wind" by Kansas, Jerry Lee Lewis's "Great Balls of Fire," REM's "It's the End of the World as We Know It," "Only the Good Die Young" by Billy Joel, Dave Matthews Band's "Crash Into Me," "Nowhere to Run" by Martha & the Vandellas, and all songs by Rage Against The Machine. Adapted from Eric Nunzun's "A Brief History of Banned Music in the United States". ----- In March, 2003, country stations across the United States pulled the Dixie Chicks from playlists following reports that lead singer Natalie Maines said in a concert in London that she was "ashamed the president of the United States is from Texas" admist pre-war fervor over the United States' subsequent invasion of Iraq. Station managers said their decisions were prompted by calls from irate listeners who thought criticism of the president was unpatriotic. [Source, CNN] That same May, country music station KKCS, in Colorado, suspended two disc jockeys for playing songs by the Dixie Chicks in violation of a ban imposed by the station manager. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,lox Date: 20 Apr 08 - 02:08 PM This aspect of Obama constitutes 1 out of 360 degrees of his character. What a shallow way of looking at him. You really seem to be the one who is shocked and surprised by his association with Hip Hop. You are demonstrating that it was way off your radar. What do you want us to do - call a state of emergency? Nobody is bothered. They are taking it in their stride. They have made much deeper much more substantive judgements than that. I've just realized why Bobert is calling you racist. You genuinely seem to bee suggesting that this association with Hip Hop and Jay-Z, and use of the term "twisting the knife" is something to be concerned about. Is that your point? There was more of value in the "man from the east" christian fundamentalist thread |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: meself Date: 20 Apr 08 - 02:22 PM I listened to several seemingly heavyweight pundits on the radio this morning discussing Obama, Hilary, and McCain, recent developments in their campaigns, what lies ahead, etc., etc. There was no mention of brushing off dirt, twisting knives, "Jay-Z", or Hip Hop or banned music ... This seems to me one of the weirder threads that Mudcat has produced ... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: Riginslinger Date: 20 Apr 08 - 02:25 PM "What a shallow way of looking at him...(Obama)..." Because he's proven himself to be shallow! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: Don Firth Date: 20 Apr 08 - 03:20 PM The point I was making, GUEST,Fantasmagoria, is that your attempting to associate Barack Obama in any important way with Hip-Hop/Rap appears to me to be yet another example of negative campaigning on your part. Dirty politics. Wallowing in manure, as I said. By "manure," I am not referring to Hip-Hop/Rap (admittedly, I am not a fan), but to your tactics. You've already gone on record on other threads and under other names (GUEST,Guess who I am this time) as pushing Ralph Nader, and have personally and collectively attacked anyone who doesn't think Nader has a ghost of a chance (characteristically pulling about 2% of the vote on a good day) or would make a good president even if he did win. I'd be more impressed if you were trying to convince me of why I should vote for Nader than I am with your repeated attempts to trash the other candidates. Rummaging aroung to find cheesy ways to trash other candidates is the nature of dirty politics. That's why I asked you if you were working for Karl Rove. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: Ebbie Date: 20 Apr 08 - 03:56 PM Don, I am quite sure that if we all switched to Ralph Nader this person would immediately and vociferously find all kinds of reasons why we were all unrealistic, uninformed, naiive, and just plain dumb. This person has no allegiance to anything that I can perceive. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: Don Firth Date: 20 Apr 08 - 04:16 PM That's my assessment too, Ebbie. Just another troll. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 20 Apr 08 - 04:27 PM And what I am saying is some of you seem so far removed from the Obama youth vote and Obama urban black vote that has catapulted him to front runner status, that you aren't seeing your candidate accurately, much less the realities of the general election campaign. People here, from what I can tell, view hip hop with contempt. Not only does your candidate NOT view hip hop with contempt, he embraces it. And is using the street organizations of the hip hop and indie music movement to do his grass roots organizing. And no, you won't hear about that on National Public Radio. Obama wouldn't be the front runner without hip hop. It is that simple. It is the hip hop street organizing model that is propelling his youth campaign forward. And the best thing about it for Obama is, they work for free, unlike ward bosses and election workers in Philly, who expect some money up front for making calls and driving voters on election day. Now, unfortunately for hip hop the art form, what started out as a gritty portrayal of what was really happening on the streets has been perverted in less than two decades into a a seamy world of get rich quick corporate clowns, rapping about which ho wears their chain (like Jay Z, for instance, whom I believe is one of the clowns making billions out of his gangsta thug persona). But fortunately for Obama, because that group IS so superficial, and so about whatever is the cool thing of the moment, he is it. So he has the support of the kids on the street, and their college campus wannabes, who are most beholden to the Brand Hip Hop that has become a tool to oppress and distract an entire generation of youth, especially young kids of color. These politically activie Millenium kids are already organized, but not in political parties--they stay far from them. They are still, for the most part, an underground force. They are off the radar of philanthropists, party fundraisers and organizers, etc. But Obama, with his connections in community organizations in Chicago, knows people who know them. So he has been able to mobilize them in his campaign. Which is how the Philly Inquirer ended up running an article this weekend on how a 19 year old Mass college kid could end up running a precinct campaign office for Obama, and alienate the Democratic party regulars from the 'hood by not playing the politics as usual game in what is still very much a Democratic party machine town. But if you dinofolk wanna diss me in order to keep your heads buried in the sand about all this, go right ahead. It's a beautiful spring day here, and I am all over and out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders From: GUEST Date: 20 Apr 08 - 04:28 PM 100. Slammin' the door on my way outta here too. |
