BS: Closing my eBay account

Subject: BS: Closing my eBay account
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 04:25 AM

I have been asked by eBay to agree to new terms and conditions, which I think are beyond the pale, and as such I shall be closing my account.
The terms I find impossible to accept are these;

"eBay Buyer Protection

Under the eBay Buyer Protection Policy [v1], if we resolve a dispute in the buyer's favour, we may:

        remove funds from the seller's PayPal account to reimburse the buyer for the costs of both the item and original postage fee. This is in accordance with the seller's authorisation provided to us under the new User Agreement [v2] ; or,
        where there are insufficient funds in the seller's PayPal account or where PayPal is not the reimbursement method of the seller, directly refund the buyer for the cost of the item and the original postage cost. In this case, the seller must reimburse us in full in a timely manner for an amount equivalent to the sum we paid to the buyer."

I cannot allow them to access my funds, after they have arrived at a non judicial decision. On the face of it, it would appear to be a kangaroo court, and there is no word of right to appeal, or to have legal representation.
eBay have become too powerful, and their prices have crept up to the extent that the small private seller is being squeezed out, and the categories are now full of commercial sales.
Does anybody know of, and reccommend an alternative online selling facility?

JM

Subject: RE: BS: Closing my eBay account
From: Tyke
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 01:12 PM

There's a Geordie site based on the four Geordie vowels A E I O U!

Just say each vowel slowly. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Closing my eBay account
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 01:59 PM

There's a site called ebid - listings are free but there aren't that many buyers compared with ebay, which kinda defeats the object.

Subject: RE: BS: Closing my eBay account
From: Amos
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 03:08 PM

It's an agreement to abide by their adjudication. Clearly it is designed to protect a buyer against fraudulent sellers. Since you have a high standard for doing business, and don't rip folks off, I don't see the problem, pragmatically. If you reject it on general principle, because it does not rely on the judicial process, I can understand that. But it is easy to defend yourself against.

Subject: RE: BS: Closing my eBay account
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 03:24 PM

There are occasionally crackpot buyers, but I've run into more crackpot sellers, who I would have loved to have posted accurate feedback on. This was before the possibility of retaliation from the seller was removed.

If you want to keep them from taking funds then insure everything you ship, and the reimbursement falls to the shipper if it is broken or goes missing.

After Sept 22 you can't put in the verbiage about "if you don't use optional insurance then don't ask me to make a refund if it is damaged." You also can't put in optional insurance. It is either included as a handling charge or not, but you can't make it optional to the buyer. Now you as seller have to decide if you're going to cut into your profits even more, or add handling, or if you're going to compete against sellers who don't include insurance in their price.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Closing my eBay account
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 03:58 PM

I was a little reluctant to trust buying though eBay at first, but I changed my mind because they have a good system of protections for buyers. Yes, the system might be abused by dishonest or overly fussy buyers, but it does help most of us buyers feel we can feel secure about our online purchases at eBay.

I don't buy from individual sellers on the Internet - especially for overseas purchases, I buy through networks like eBay, Amazon, ABEBooks, Alibris, and bookfinder.com - because they give me some modicum of security.

A couple of years ago, I bought a set of books through abebooks.com, for $186.50. The seller was in Israel. The books never arrived, and the bookseller was very evasive when I complained directly to him. I contacted abebooks, and they refunded my money with very little hassle. I think I would have lost my entire $186.50 if I had dealt only with the dealer.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Closing my eBay account
From: Maryrrf
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 04:04 PM

You can sell on Amazon.com, but I think you have to set the price - it isn't an auction. I've only sold a few books and that was a while ago, but it was pretty easy.

Subject: RE: BS: Closing my eBay account
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 05:30 PM

Hooray for eBay, theyhave finally made it even easier for scam artists and bogus sellers to take the money and run.

yep buyers beware ...................even more than before.

Subject: RE: BS: Closing my eBay account
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 11:25 PM

Am I reading this right in that they could take funds out of my backup bank account which funds my paypal account if I don't have enough in it for purchases? I won't do another bit of seller or buyer business with them, if so.

Subject: RE: BS: Closing my eBay account
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Sep 09 - 05:08 AM

That's the way I read it katL.

JM

Subject: RE: BS: Closing my eBay account
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 13 Sep 09 - 05:51 PM

... they could take funds out of my backup bank account which funds my paypal account if I don't have enough in it for purchases? ...

Kat, that's always been the way Ebay operates, surely, when you are buying ? When you complete the buying process, if you don't have sufficient funds in you Paypal account, you are informed that your bank account or credit card will be debited by such and such an amount. They don't do it without your agreement.

Monthly Ebay seller fees will always be deducted from your bank account if you don't have sufficient funds in your Paypal account, but you are always given at least two weeks reminder of what these fees are.

Subject: RE: BS: Closing my eBay account
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Sep 09 - 05:58 PM

Sure, when I am buying, Murray. I expect that and it works well. I have never had them automatically take any fees out otherwise, including seller fees. I've always received an e-bill and paid it myself. At that time, paypal may take the funds out of my bank account because I have given permission to do so. (I know ebay owns paypal, now, but I still like to maintain the illusion that they do separate functions, sorta.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Closing my eBay account
From: SINSULL
Date: 13 Sep 09 - 06:45 PM

Ebay has always had access to your "back up" account. In fact they could freeze your personal account if they suspected fraud both to protect you and the buyer. It is the key difference between between Paypal and a traditional credit card processing account.
Read the fine print.
As to the new agreement: before it reaches the point where they transfer funds to a complaining buyer, you have plenty of notice and time to respond. I have had two cases where packages went astray (God bless the US post office). Once I was the seller; once the buyer. In both cases we settled the problem amicably and Ebay never got involved other than to notify us that there was a dispute.
The rule is to protect buyers from scam sellers. A buyer can protect himself by buying only through Paypal. Check or credit card can leave them holding the bag.
That said, I have never been scammed on Ebay nor do I know anyone who was. I do know someone whose account was frozen because he tried to transfer funds from a friend's computer. Paypal red flagged the transfer and he was notified. Meantime, his checking account was frozen (or so he said) This is not someone I would trust so I don't believe that that was exactly what triggered the freeze.
Donuel, I don't understand your comment.This is an extra protection for buyers.

Subject: RE: BS: Closing my eBay account
From: romanyman
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 05:09 PM

stuff ebay where the sun dont shine, most of the sellers have gone so far away from the original idea , that most times its cheaper to buy in a damn shop, once you include postage into the price most times as a buyer you are on a loser, also the number of buyers being scammed is beyond a joke, do ebay do anything aboout it, leave off no chance, stuff em i say,

Subject: RE: BS: Closing my eBay account
From: SINSULL
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 06:43 PM

I must live in CloudCuckooLand. I sell and buy on Ebay. Most of my sales are stuff I pick up at yard sales for next to nothing, sell at a bargain price and still make money. A few months ago, I bought a box of old watch parts for $17 and sold it piecemeal for hundreds. One buyer was so embarrassed at the price he paid for what turned out to be rare gold pocket watch parts that he sent me an additionl $20. Keep in mind, I kept a sterling silver watch fob for myself that is listed for $300 on an antique site.
So the guy I bought the stuff from made money, I made money, my buyers made money and we're all happy.

Subject: RE: BS: Closing my eBay account
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 07:14 PM

I suppose the thing would be to have a minimal amount in that back-up account, and top it up as necessary.

Subject: RE: BS: Closing my eBay account
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 09:41 PM

Seems to me this is a completely reasonable policy. IF eBay adjudicates a complaint in the buyer's favor, the seller is liable for the cost of the sale plus shipping; and that amount can be deducted from the seller's PayPal account. eBay makes it easy for itself to collect the money from the seller, but that's just a wise business practice.
Or could it be that there's something here that I'm not understanding?

-Joe-