BS: Any US help re. a bad dealer?

Subject: Any US help re. a bad dealer?
From: Phillip
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 12:08 PM

Any advice would be gratefully received, maybe a PM would be best? And if this topic is not appropriate I apologise, and would the mudcat guys delete it?

This is an email I sent to a consumer advocacy organisation in Maine about a situation I'm in. I wonder if there is anything else I can do? I've taken out the contact info of the people concerned:

Your email address was given to me by the city council in Bangor, Me. They thought you might be able to help or advise me as I have a problem with a company trading in Bangor. The outline is below, and I'd be very grateful for anything you can do or say which would progress things.

I bought three second hand books from a company called LCB on ebay last year. I paid $160 for the books via PayPal, which is an Internet-based "clearing house" for credit card payments. I have the emails showing how much I paid, and when, and that LCB received the money. I live in England, and they say they sent the books in two packages, neither of which arrived. Eventually I contacted them. They said they would send the books again - presumably in one package. This third one also has not arrived. I then asked for a refund, and they readily agreed, but then claimed they had no record of the transaction. I sent them copies of mine. No reply was received, no payment was forthcoming. I have since emailed them to ask what other details they need, but they do not reply. It is now two weeks since they agreed to a refund.

I have since found out that something similar has happened to a customer in Spain. They claim the books have been sent twice, but they have never arrived. On ebay their defence is "We don't know what happened." I have received many packages over the Atlantic since this tale of deceit began, but LCB expect us to believe that lightning has struck not twice, but five times. I suspect they think that as we are so far away we can do nothing to redress the situation. All their other transactions on ebay have gone extremely well, according to the feedback, but none stood out as being international transactions.

Thank you for anything you can help with in this regard.

Yours sincerely,

Phillip Mannion

Subject: RE: BS: Any US help re. a bad dealer?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 12:21 PM

The topic is certainly appropriate, Phillip. Many of us buy books - music and otherwise - through EBay and online dealers, sometimes overseas.
So far, I've been lucky.
Good luck to you.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Any US help re. a bad dealer?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 12:58 PM

The acronym "LCB" is in too general of usage to do a meaningful search. Can you give us some more information, like an address, titles of books they carry, etc.? Finding other dissatisfied customers might offer a clue, given enough information to conduct a search for them.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Any US help re. a bad dealer?
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 01:27 PM

Phillip, i just sent you a PM. Hope it helps.

Subject: RE: BS: Any US help re. a bad dealer?
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 01:50 PM

This is from eBay's "Safe Harbor" section; maybe you would qualify for this?

Fraud Protection Program

Under the eBay Fraud Protection Program, most items on eBay are covered for up to $200 (minus $25 to cover processing costs). Please note: the maximum reimbursement for any claim is $175. For example:

If the item price is $500, you are eligible to receive $175;
If the item price is $100, you are eligible to receive $75;
If the item price is $26, you are eligible to receive $1.
While the vast majority of eBay transactions are trouble-free, rest assured that when fraud happens, our program can help. Here's how fraud is defined on eBay:

Paying for an item and never receiving it or
Receiving an item that is less than what is described -- such as winning a solid gold necklace but receiving a copper one instead.
If you feel you need to take advantage of the Program, here are the steps to take:

First, try to communicate with your seller directly. Many problems are just simple misunderstandings. To contact your trading partner, go to the Find Members page and fill in the requested fields appropriately.

Buyers and sellers can also use dispute resolution through SquareTrade, an independent service that provides a neutral place to work out disputes online efficiently and effectively.

Review the Eligibility Checklist and Claim Process to understand how you qualify for the eBay Fraud Protection Program.

If you still suspect fraud and have gone through Steps 1 and 3 (step 2 is optional,) file a Online Fraud Complaint. To allow for communication between trading partners, you must wait 30 days from the end of the listing before filing a Fraud Report. Please be aware that you may file the Online Fraud Complaint no more than 60 days from the end of the listing.

Check out the Fraud Protection FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) if you'd like more information.

Help ensure your buying experience is a positive one - check out tips from fellow buyers.

If you still have a question please Contact Rules and Safety.

Subject: RE: BS: Any US help re. a bad dealer?
From: IvanB
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 02:47 PM

You might also want to contact Paypal. Although Paypal doesn't promise to recover any money for you, they will ask the vendor for proof of shipment of the goods. If none is forthcoming they may at least take action to cancel the vendor's Paypal services if the vendor fails to come to an accommodation with the complainant.

Just one note: Whenever I buy anything on eBay, I request the package be insured. Asking for insurance, even though it costs a bit more, usually makes the vendor choose a traceable method of shipment.

Subject: RE: BS: Any US help re. a bad dealer?
From: Justa Picker
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 03:10 PM

You might want to check this out as well. They are currently being investigated as well. Be very careful with them and don't keep any excess money in any Paypal accounts. Lately they've been arbitrarily freezing peoples' accounts and the money is locked up and unaccessible for 30 days or more - all without notifying account holders. They have a severe cash flow situation. (Personally, I would touch them.)

Subject: RE: BS: Any US help re. a bad dealer?
From: Justa Picker
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 03:14 PM

(wouldn't)

Subject: RE: BS: Any US help re. a bad dealer?
From: Phillip
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 04:25 PM

Thanks very much for all this help so far.

We've gone past the 60 day limit on the ebay complaint thing, sadly.

The agancy I got intouch with was really interested and is offering to help if at all possible, and I have had other offers too. (Hope you got the replies!)

I've just sent a mail to the dealers telling them this and suggesting we save ourselves a lot of trouble by sticking to our word. Let's see what happens.

As for posting their name... Would that be OK? I don't want to open up this community to possible charges of foul and infamous blasphemy and slander. (I think that's what lawyers call it.)

rgds

Phillip

Subject: RE: BS: Any US help re. a bad dealer?
From: GUEST,DW at work
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 06:36 PM

Go with Justapicker. Believe me, these guys are not trustworthy. They were pretty good until they started to get more international requests, then someone discovered what a great way to scam people it is - that famous lie "the check is in the mail". In this case it's "the bucks are in my account, your books are in the trash". It's a lot harder to get help from abroad if you lose your hard earned bucks, and you can always claim language difficulties or misunderstandings.

DW

Subject: RE: BS: Any US help re. a bad dealer?
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 08:03 PM

If you paid via credit card, you may have some recourse through the credit card company. Many cards have insurances and guarantees with them. I had a similar problem with a purchase using PayPal. While PayPal was the actual reason the guy finally coughed up the goods, my Visa company would have been willing to investigate the claim of fraud had he not. This all after several attempts at contacting him directly, and his deleting the only e-mail we had for him.

More and more I come to the conclusion that buying something before you have it in hand is a bad idea. I realize that this severely limits my ability to find things, but I'd rather have to hunt harder locally, or miss out altogether than to spend money on goods or services that I never receive.

Subject: RE: BS: Any US help re. a bad dealer?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 10:45 AM

I'm pulling up this old thread because I have a question about PayPal. There have been recent stories but I didn't pay attention--has PayPal cleaned up it's act? What experience do Mudcatters have using this purchasing system, as sellers and as buyers? A friend sells his books to various shops, but has never had to deal with it before. Now he has a fellow who sells books via Ebay wanting to know if my friend accepts PayPal. I read the complaints on this link, but they're more than two years old.

Can anyone offer advice on using PayPal these days?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Any US help re. a bad dealer?
From: curmudgeon
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 11:00 AM

PayPal is now owned by eBay. I use it rarely, but have had no problems whatsoever. Remember that if someone is buying from you through PayPal via a credit card, you will be charged a small fee.

Subject: RE: BS: Any US help re. a bad dealer?
From: jimmyt
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 11:05 AM

MISREPRESENTED. cONTACTED THE SELL

Subject: RE: BS: Any US help re. a bad dealer?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 01:02 PM

JimmyT, I didn't get quite what you were trying to say? The negative remarks are as or more useful than the positive--my friend is a bit of a Luddite when it comes to some of these internet business things, so will need to find a system that is pretty reliable and easy to use.

Thanks for the info about Ebay. I'll go poke around there and see if they have FAQs for PayPal.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Any US help re. a bad dealer?
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 01:14 PM

I have a friend who makes his living, in part, by selling stuff on ebay and I know he will not use PayPal. I would trust his judgement no matter what. He accepts only money orders and personal checks and doesn't send the goods out until those have cleared. He's been at it for several years.

Interestingly enough, just this week, someone tried to use my debit card online giving my old addy and phone number. This alerted the bank and we got all but $179 stopped before it went through our account. Now, the bank will take about two to three days to remedy those charges. The only place where I used the debit card online AND had not updated my info was PayPal, as best as I can remember.

Tell your friend I've had good luck on ebay, both selling and buying, by using Western Union's options, which are listed on ebay.

Hope this helps,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Any US help re. a bad dealer?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 01:53 PM

Thanks, Kat. I forwarded your remarks to him.