Getting on the bottom rung

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: GUEST,Juju
Date: 10 Jul 12 - 04:11 AM

Download these (PDF files), read, and take to heart:

Jacey Bedford's help guides on www. britfolk.co.uk

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: GUEST,Juju
Date: 10 Jul 12 - 04:16 AM

Wooops guess they're not PDF files (anymore??). But save 'em.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: BobKnight
Date: 10 Jul 12 - 06:25 AM

Guest 999 - thank you for your comment. Sometimes I feel like packing it in, but I keep trundling along, and every little bit of encouragement helps.

Getting down to practicalities for "Like a complete unknown," you will need about six songs for a half hour spot, and around ten for a 45 minute spot - so two 45's equal about 20 songs. Depends on the length of your songs of course, but most of mine are about 3-4 minutes long, and I don't mind running over a wee bit. Always keep one in reserve in case you're asked for an encore.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 12 - 06:22 PM

Jacey's advice is excellent. She is an agent and has run a concert venue as well as working for get gigs for her own band, so she knows the business from both ends and the middle!

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jul 12 - 06:44 PM

Twenty songs.

Concentrate on the first one. or maybe if you're a hit the ground running type - the second.

Now what are you going to do that will make the audience hear that song with new ears, What piece of background information - that will show YOUR response to that song and get your audience to understand and empathise with your enthusiasm for the song.

Easy enough, if your martin Carthy - all folksongs are putty in his hands - a formidable guitar talent, a truly divergent thinker (could no more do a bog standard rendition than he could fly) - people are attracted by the mercurial talent and the mind behind it.

Easy enough if you're derek Brimstone - funny stories about serious songs for the main part - but all very pointed, showing he's thought more than average about the material.

Just knocking out twenty songs like a machine gun isn't what makes folk music, into folk music - even if its point of origin of every song is cecil Sharp House. There has to be some way of communicating your PASSION to give the audience the song.

IMHO

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Jul 12 - 06:54 PM

I might point out that some emergent bands start plastering their dates everywhere and all over facebook and it does look a bit self-aggrandising. Certainly puts me off.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jul 12 - 07:02 PM

keeps them off the streets, Richard.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Jul 12 - 05:55 AM

some emergent bands start plastering their dates everywhere

Well, why not, Richard? You have to speculate to accumulate, I suppose. Without publicity no-one will know who the devil you are. How would I know what goes in Sussex without being able to look up the Sussex Folk Guide?

If no-one paid for an ad in the Guide, it wouldn't exist - and we'd all be none the wiser!

Let the young bands do their thing - good luck to 'em, I say. Youth will have its fling - and so will Age, given half a chance.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 11 Jul 12 - 08:25 AM

Let the young bands do their thing - good luck to 'em, I say. Youth will have its fling - and so will Age, given half a chance.

Spare a thought for the ageing newbie! My biggest regret in this area is that I started singing out regularly at the age of 42, instead of 22 (or 12). My second biggest is that I didn't find my way to the trad repertoire (and Mudcat!) for quite a few years after that. It meant that I was doing my growing-up-in-public (you know the kind of thing - "This is a traditional song by Nic Jones", "This one was collected by a guy called Frankie Armstrong"...) at an age when I should have been having my mid-life crisis. (On second thoughts maybe that was...)

Young newcomers seem to get a different kind of attention, probably because it's just so nice when the average age in the room goes down. And it's usually true that if a newcomer's young they're also new to the stuff, and would welcome the odd pointer - but it's not true that older geezers aren't new to it. So the next time you see a shy-looking middle-aged guy in the corner mumbling something about how he might know a song or two, don't assume he's just being modest and he's been singing at the next folk club but two for the last 20 years - maybe he actually does know a song or two, and maybe he'd like to be pointed towards some more.

I was OK, though - I had Mudcat to fall back on, where I could ask as many stupid questions and admit as much ignorance as I liked ("so, what's Paul Bellamy doing these days?").

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 11 Jul 12 - 11:39 AM

In my young day I split my time between Punk, Free Improv, Early Music & Folk. Mostly Free Improv & Folk. All the others were cool, friendly, co-operative, encouraging, but once you entered a Folk Club you found yourself in a very differnt world - hostile, righteous and quite depressingly MOR. It was the exceptions that kept me going - the love of Traditional Songs & Traditional Singers - the opportunity of hearing Ray Fisher sing Every Thursday Night (and almost talking her into the letting us back on the Bonny Birdy, but it never happened, alas!) - but there was a lot of sourness around which was only confirmed when I got word than one of Hapless Booked Guests at the Bridge in Newcastle wasn't offered a doss as part of the deal. The next day I was complaining to a friend (Raymond Greenoaken) out in his cosy drum in the far flung wilds of Slaggyford in the South Tyne Valley.

'You know,' quoth I. ' - They had a guest on at The Bridge last night and they didn't offer him anywhere to stay. Got so bad they suggested he stay with me - poor bastard had to come upstairs looking for me - a complete stranger - asking people who I was - even as asking me who I was. Are you Sean?'
'So you weren't in The Folk Club then?' quoth Raymond.
'No - we'd been out felling trees all day and were feeling jubilant so I didn't make it down - didn't even hear the guest - poor sod. I said he could stay but it meant a long bus journey and several miles of muddy fields at the other end. He seemed into it, but later on he came up and said he's been offered a doss closer to town. Nice bloke - I felt really sorry for him.'
'Who was it?'
'Someone called - Peter Bellamy?'

To this day I remember Raymond's expression, as he fell off his chair then headed for his Wall o' Choice Vinyl and proceeded to intitiate me into all things Bellamy. Epiphany does not begin to describe it.

So - friendly folk, eh?

Otherwise - age has little to do with it. I know hoards of Second Life Folkies who've only started singing as a retirement hobby & a bit of social crack; spending their kid's inheritance on camper vans and setting up gatherings and singing weekends all over the place. I heard one singer one time and assumed I was hearing some choice vintage. Turned out they'd only been singing two years. I doubt they have any aspirations as to ladders though, they just like a good old blow.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 11 Jul 12 - 01:52 PM

Guest LACU - have you in fact actually gone to a club, done a good floor spot and ASKED for a gig?
If they don't ask you, you ask them.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: GUEST,Like a complete unknown
Date: 11 Jul 12 - 02:45 PM

Can I just say I'm feeling a lot better--more self-confident & less resentful--now. And in a different place in terms of what seems like common sense, if that doesn't sound too wifty-wafty. Seamus K--no, of course I hadn't asked, I was waiting for THEM to ask ME, because they would if they REALLY liked me... Bollo to that.

Mr Bland is right--sour grapes are no good for anyone. But I think I needed to indulge my inner Kevin--instead of repressing him and telling myself to think positive--in order to realise that.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jul 12 - 02:51 PM

Oh I tend to think that asking for a gig is a bit vulgar. I'm sorry that what follows may sound a bit conceited. But I can't tolerate this Princess Pushy stuff any more.

We usually wait until someone asks us. I do however get a bit pissed off at the "Loved your singing, if you do a free support slot for (insert national name) then we'll give you a real gig the year after" - and then, like jam for tea, the year after never comes. And the "I've been watching you for 3 years and you get better every year - would you like a gig at our club?" followed by - "Here's a flyer (stating a location about 80 miles away) come and see us on a club night and we'll talk about it".

These remarks are typified and do not refer to any specific club. No reference to any specific club should be inferred.

Do I want to be "professional in my attitude"? NO. I prefer my folk song singing to be (as I would a girlfriend) amateur, not as a prostitute. I still want to get it right - but that is about perfectionism, not more.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 11 Jul 12 - 03:00 PM

So you don't want to be professional in your attitude but you do want to get paid Richard?

Oh dear, no wonder folk clubs aren't as well supported as they used to be.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jul 12 - 03:11 PM

I want to get it right. You haven't asked what we do do with the fees we get offered, have you. About par for your course.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jul 12 - 03:21 PM

Oh, and where said I say I wanted to be paid? I ask only what I was offered and promised. Be careful who you tar with your own brush.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Vic Smith
Date: 11 Jul 12 - 03:22 PM

Will Fly wrote:-

Without publicity no-one will know who the devil you are. How would I know what goes in Sussex without being able to look up the Sussex Folk Guide?
If no-one paid for an ad in the Guide, it wouldn't exist - and we'd all be none the wiser!

Strictly speaking, Mike, NOBODY pays to get an ad in the Sussex Folk Guide. I know, because I am the one that compiles it - and I don't get paid for the several hours it takes me each month to put it together. I do it as a labour of love because I am passionate about the music.

Now, all the adverts are taken from the paper magazine that I share the editing of, The Folk Diary, where you do have to pay for your adverts. Sometimes, I get people approaching me with info asking me to include it in the listings website. I explain to them that this listings are taken from the magazine and is considered a free extra service for advertisers and that if I gave free listings to everyone, we might not have a magazine. I sometimes give these people a a one-off listing depending on the merits of each case.
Several Sussex-area newspapers and other listings websites lift their listings directly from the paper copy of The Folk Diary; we send a copy to each of our newspapers in and around our area.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 11 Jul 12 - 04:34 PM

So you don't want paying Richard?

"Be careful who you tar with your own brush." I'm primarily an organiser, definitely not a professional act. Read my posts above.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jul 12 - 06:16 PM

Read my lips. Make me an offer if you want to. Make it an honest one. And stick to it.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Jul 12 - 07:41 PM

Okay, Inverness for a fiver....!

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: zozimus
Date: 11 Jul 12 - 07:42 PM

If you are an unaccompanied singer I think you are trying to climb the wrong ladder. You need to find a club that is predominantly unaccompanied, where listeners are more interested in the songs rather than fancy guitar picking. Otherwise, get yourself a guitar picker to support you.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 04:31 AM

Looks like Folk has sucked the Fun out of this thread. Twas e'er the way, alas! As the old saying goes As long as there's dog shit in the street, Folk 'n' Fun shall never meet (or is that another Penguinism?) A perfect reflection of the summer really - I had this one tipped as this year's Silly Season Thread, but seems the awful weather has dampened our spirits to doom & gloom. Still, looks sunny enough out there today though, with lots of reasons to be jolly cheerful indeed, like my New Penguin Book of English Folk Song which arrived earlier in the week reminding me of what this folk thing is all about really & what attracted me to it in the first place. And not a ladder in sight, much less a folk club, just the wide open pastures of our commonland and the clear vistas of nebulous humanity floating as fair weather cumulus in clear blue skies.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: johncharles
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 05:39 AM

This does not seem to me to be the subject for a silly season approach.
It is all to easy to either trample on someone's dream or to give false hope which will end in tears sooner or later. i have done both of these in the past. I now try to stick with the view that the best thing one can do for a friend is to give them clear and unambiguous feedback. John

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 06:05 AM

Thanks Al, but I'll let you do it!

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 09:30 AM

I now try to stick with the view that the best thing one can do for a friend is to give them clear and unambiguous feedback.

One person's clear & unambiguous feedback is another's jaundiced opinionated bullshit designed to obfuscate & misdirect, even subsconsciously, whereby the dark mechanism of mere OPINION is really best left out of the equation altogether. Thus do dreams become reality, and vice-versa, and one simply deals with the pure truth of one's calling without muddying it with anything so base as ambition or desire for material gain.

Our musicality is akin to our sexuality - it's a gift which defines us by pure joy with respect of a more occult menchanism of Tradition or Procreation, but there's no second-guessing these things, which is why it's best to keep things are pure as possible. This is maybe getting back to something Richard said earlier, which makes a sort of sense, though this isn't to reject either whores or professional musicians, just recognise the simple fact that there's only one of you & this life is all you get, so best spend it in the pursuit of happiness, and thinking not of tomorrow least ye disappointed be.

As Stan Laurel said, life's not short enough.

Let silly season commence!

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 10:55 AM

Have you thought of comparing?

I think you have to be exceptionally good or very funny to hold an audiece for 20+ mins with unaccompanied singing - theres just not enough variety for most people. Comparing would give you a chance to develop the funny.
FloraG

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 11:31 AM

Somebody ought to do a thread about it - best unaccompanied singer gig.

At the top, I'd put Ian Campbell. So clever about folk music. so thoughtful. Wonderful songwriter. great stories about the old days. Hell of a singer. Very unexpected as well. Roaring into bits of nonsense like The Barnyards of Delgaty, then he'd do a song from Benjamin Britten.

And the weird thing was - I don't think a lot of people saw him like that as he was mostly with the band.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: johncharles
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 01:26 PM

So LACU you could adopt some of the sensible and practical advice from many of the posters or rely upon your dreams coming true. Do not bet heavily on the latter. John

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 01:37 PM

Surely this whole thread is about dreams coming true? And that's a good thing.

I can't believe that LACU can't organise him (her?)self a 20-30 minute slot somewhere....... it's really not an impossible dream.

I come back to the need to let people know that this is what him(her)self wants.

So just make it easy and ask (and it really isn't vulgar...... as an organiser I would be highly unlikely to book anyone who didn't let me know they wanted a gig...... how would I know?).

And if you do score the gig...... just be as "professional" as you can.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: johncharles
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 01:41 PM

Banjiman you are of course correct I was attempting to point out that as you say practical measures are needed for any hope of one's dreams coming true the dream in itself will not be enough.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 01:43 PM

I see that now JC :-)

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 02:44 PM

Tommy Dempsey - the Irish/Birmingham singer used to do a great unaccompanied gig.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: GUEST,Like a complete unknown
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 03:15 PM

I keep meaning to take up my cookie and walk, but I want to respond to some of the comments above.

I'm getting two very strong messages--they aren't totally compatible with each other but they both seem valid. One is "if you want something to happen, how about doing something to make it happen?"; the other is "if you want to make music, how about concentrating on the music?". I have a lot of sympathy for the second one, but I do think the first is useful too. What's interesting is that they're both totally at odds with dreams of being plucked from obscurity and sour grapes about somebody else getting the breaks, which is the kind of attitude I came into this thread with. They're both positive attitudes, in other words, and not just in the painted-on-smile Must Not Think Negative Thoughts sense. So thanks, all--it's been useful, and not just in a musical sense.

Now I'm off to put my stupid human suit back on. TTFN.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 03:29 PM

Our Mr Rungbottom is asking for experience, which is exactly what I'm offering here. The only practical thing is getting your shit together; and that means dedicating yourself to your craft & taking it very seriously, and joyfully, indeed.

Folk Music is gardening. I'm sitting looking out over my mum-in-law's beautiful garden in which her skills & familiarity with 'the tradition' of gardening are manifest in a blaze of beauty & carefully nurtured wilderness interacting with wildlife, seasons, experiment, invention, etc etc. A true labour of love. Who else gets to see it but us lot?

So, good folkies all, and Kevin Rungbottom, whoe'er ye may be, go forth and sow the seeds of love and let that be an end in itself. Nurture your Nature, and seek out like minds (if possible) amongst your local Traddies. Talk to other singers in singarounds about ladders & ambitions. When I think of all the great singers I've known - true gardeners all, happy just to sing a few songs & sup a few pints; those to whom 'stagecraft' is anathema to the truth of the music which lives and breathes in another dimension to the dreary WMC dottle being offered here by those 'in the know'.

Lord protect us from any music that's been developed according to a fecking business plan...

Jack Blandiver
(Aka Sedayne; The Mudcatter still known as Suibhne O'Piobaireachd until Joe Offer honours my request for a name-change.)

PS - The Rapunzel & Sedayne Sing Peters & Lee CD will be out in the autumn on EMI; we gave Folk Police first refusal but they've got more integrity than we have. Of course no one in the Folk Scene gets to hear this; I'm being interviewed tomorrow by the Financial Times about the role we are playing in the upcoming Harry Smith event in London - naturally no mention will be made of our 'darker side', nor will I use the the F-word at any point, careful to maintain our hard-won (& much resented) credibility out there on the outer margins of the wyrdfolk fringe.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 03:46 PM

I'd have thought that a folk club organiser - who is definitely in some sort of business and not ipso fatso an "artist" - would be very keen to keep a wary eye out for any new singer to ring the changes maybe without great expense. Certainly when I co-ran a folk club I regarded it as part of my job to pursue those I thought would be good for the club as performers. I still refer, to those who run clubs I go to, people who I think might not be on their radar and who I think would be good for the clubs.

I still think that this whole thread would have been better with a cloak of anonymity. I might wish to cite as disastrous some self publicists (not necessarily you, shirt murderer) and some might feel I was boastful if making recommendation. After all who am I to condescend?

I do however know one excellent unaccompanied singer whose "marketability" has increased hugely by teaming up with an excellent guitarist and very able vocalist (one person). Each alone was fine. The two together do indeed benefit from synergy. I'd have suggested finding your way to "knock 'em dead" and then wait to be asked.

If you want to be a prostitute then keep punting your wares. I've booked people who did that, did good floorspots, had good demos - then turned up with a different lineup and were dogshit. I've seen people booked who cannot do a good floorspot, have no decent demo - and are far worse but got there by chutzpah. Better to be honest.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 06:09 PM

Richardit's not some of us prostitute ourselves. We just happen to like wearing fishnet tights and mini skirts - some of us are just that kind of girl.....

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 06:18 PM

Al, your ability speaks for itself.

The fundamental question is whether one is in commerce or not.

Look what commerce has brought us these last few years.

Principle is better.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 06:55 PM

I might wish to cite as disastrous some self publicists (not necessarily you, shirt murderer)

???

In my experience going cookieless is a bit of a faff, but it is doable with persistence.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 07:02 PM

Yes one can log out but some mudelf will likely post to say who you really are based on your IP address.   Yes, one can use a poxy server but it is a major pfaff.

The shirt murderer is big enough and ugly enough (and gets enough paid gigs) to take a bit of joshing.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 02:50 AM

Who or what is a shirt murderder?

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 03:48 AM

"I'd have thought that a folk club organiser - who is definitely in some sort of business" - oh yeah, right, my profits from running folk events rival an investment bank!

"would be very keen to keep a wary eye out for any new singer to ring the changes maybe without great expense" - Well strangely, I do keep my eye out for new acts, and I pay everyone we put on - we don't do floor spots as there are plenty of singers nights locally for people (including me) who want that more informal entertainment. We do main act and booked (paid) support (we've given quite a number of people their first paid gigs).

We do tend to book acts who have pretty well developed social skills and who appear to be professional about what they do though......

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 04:00 AM

But, according to your own words above - only if they ask.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: treewind
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 04:13 AM

Point about "fecking business plan" taken, but I think that was directed at the sort of act that's all marketing and no talent. If you want gigs in a competitive market you have both to have something to sell and to be prepared to sell it. In reality very few make it with one and not the other. And why does singing folk songs have to be put in the same category with sex, so it's called prostitution if you sell it?

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 05:10 AM

And why does singing folk songs have to be put in the same category with sex, so it's called prostitution if you sell it?

As Camus says, A man's work is nothing but this slow trek to rediscover, through the detours of art, those two or three great and simple images in whose presence his heart first opened.

We do well to bear that in mind midst the rush and clamour for celebrity status, or allow ourselves to become seduced by the glamour of a paid spot at a Folk Club, or even consider compromising ones craft to get such a gig by knocking out Dylan songs by way of 'reaching out'. Of course for every rule there must be exceptions. Jim Eldon is one such - I don't suppose there's anything in the least bit ironic about Jim's take on popular material, though I can't help thinking it whilst watching stuff like THIS, if only because of what I perceive as his transcendent genius. To nick what Mingus said about Rahsaan: This man is what Folk is all about. And even adopting such a popularist approach Jim is about as far from MOR easy listening, and prostitution, as you could wish to get.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 05:31 AM

Oh man! Jim Eldon FTW! Some people were born to make us happy.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 06:28 AM

"But, according to your own words above - only if they ask."

Indeed, why would I make assumptions about what someone wants to do with their music? As yourself and Blandiver make clear, there is huge ambivalence in the folk scene about wanting paid gigs (well, that's what is said, I can't say I'm convinced though).

I'm also not convinced that getting more paid gigs in the folk scene is about going down an MOR route. Seems to me it's more about being good at what you do..... and making it clear that you are available. And part of being "good" does usually mean being "entertaining", though entertainment comes in many, many different forms.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Vic Smith
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 08:53 AM

Jim Eldon is one such - I don't suppose there's anything in the least bit ironic about Jim's take on popular material, though I can't help thinking it whilst watching stuff like THIS, if only because of what I perceive as his transcendent genius.

Oh man! Jim Eldon FTW! Some people were born to make us happy.

I agree totally with both these comments and cannot resist adding:-

ROYAL OAK
3 Station Street,
Lewes
BN7 2DA
Enquiries: - [phone] or 881316
Email [e-mail].
THURSDAYS 8.pm - PROMPT START
***********************************
Jul 19th * £7.00 * JIM & LYNETTE ELDON
A very welcome return for the Brid fiddler and his clog-dancing champion wife. Jim & Lynette's straightforward performances are a delight.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 09:06 AM

Kinda reminds me of the eccentic quirky British Manufacturing companies
who designed and produced wonderfully crafted products,
but vainly believed there was no need for wasting good time & money
on 'American style' consumer research, marketing & advertising...

"The product is good enough to speak for itself"

Then sat back on their arses
going bankrupt while they waited for the world to come eagerly knocking at their factory doors....


Sad Case example -

Obit: Shergold Guitars.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 09:25 AM

I remember Shergold - you had to buy little things the size of 20 packs of fags - modules that changed the sound. Nice looking guitars. You never saw many of them though. never tried one.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 09:28 AM

Give my regards to Jim. Ask him if he remebers making an LP for Topic in a garage with Tufty Swift. I owned the studio in a garage. I made them a meal afterwards. About 1984.