When is a riff not a riff?

Subject: When is a riff not a riff?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Dec 25 - 11:28 AM

Just reflecting on one of my favourite songs (my phone's default ringtone) - Parisienne Walkways by Gary Moore. I always described the opening as a riff because it is repeated 2 or 3 times during the song but I am not so sure now. Maybe too long for a riff. Maybe it's a lick. I am no real musician so can someone tell me how to spot the difference?

And, yes, I know Google will but I like real people more :-D

Subject: RE: When is a riff not a riff?
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Dec 25 - 02:36 PM

Ah, Dave, but is it a hook?

Subject: RE: When is a riff not a riff?
From: GUEST,The Sandman
Date: 16 Dec 25 - 05:04 PM

What matters is how the music is played, not names

Subject: RE: When is a riff not a riff?
From: GUEST,AI OVERVIEW The Sandman
Date: 16 Dec 25 - 05:13 PM

riff is a main, repeated musical phrase that often defines a song (like "Smoke on the Water"), forming its backbone, while a lick is a shorter, more decorative melodic phrase or "nugget" of notes, often improvised within solos or as fills, that can be moved between songs. Think of a riff as the essential furniture of a room, and licks as decorative pillows you can swap out; licks build solos, while riffs are the song's recognizable theme

Subject: RE: When is a riff not a riff?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Dec 25 - 05:30 PM

Who cares about an AI overview? Stick with the human brain, please.

Subject: RE: When is a riff not a riff?
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 16 Dec 25 - 06:18 PM

I would say that I consider a riff to be a distinctive feature of a particular song or tune that will alway call that song or tune to mind.

I would say that a lick is a feature that may be found lurking in multiple tunes or songs and is re-used as needed where appropriate.

Robin (no AI consulted).

Subject: RE: When is a riff not a riff?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Dec 25 - 04:15 AM

Thanks Robin. With thar description I would definitely consider the opening of Parisienne Walkways to be a riff then.

Steve, stop confusing me even more :-D

Subject: RE: When is a riff not a riff?
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 17 Dec 25 - 06:16 AM

In jazz parlance I think that opening would be considered a "head", it sounds kind of long to be a riff.

Subject: RE: When is a riff not a riff?
From: Johnny J
Date: 17 Dec 25 - 06:32 AM

When it is a "raff"?
;-)

Subject: RE: When is a riff not a riff?
From: Sol
Date: 17 Dec 25 - 07:47 AM

If a song was a tree ....
The riff = the bough
The lyrics = the branches
The licks = the leaves

Feel free to disagree ;-)

Subject: RE: When is a riff not a riff?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Dec 25 - 09:36 AM

I like that, Sol :-) Where does the tune fit in? Trunk or roots?

Subject: RE: When is a riff not a riff?
From: clueless don
Date: 17 Dec 25 - 11:21 AM

How about a "phrase"?

I remember reading that John Lennon described the opening guitar part of "I Feel Fine" as a "figure".

Subject: RE: When is a riff not a riff?
From: Sol
Date: 17 Dec 25 - 06:36 PM

"DTG -I like that, Sol :-) Where does the tune fit in? Trunk or roots?"
Good point! I guess it's integral with the lyrics.

Subject: RE: When is a riff not a riff?
From: Sol
Date: 17 Dec 25 - 06:37 PM

ps ... and or the bough. Take your pick.

Subject: RE: When is a riff not a riff?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Dec 25 - 07:01 PM

Don - Am I misremembering or the opening to "I feel fine" a long note which distorts part way through?

Subject: RE: When is a riff not a riff?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Dec 25 - 04:19 AM

What direct risks does AI pose to the climate and environment?

Now, can we just get on with the subject?

And as per my opening post I would prefer answers from real people rather than a cut and paste from either AI or a seaech engine. Thank you.

Subject: RE: When is a riff not a riff?
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Dec 25 - 05:55 AM

My favourite kind of riff is a well-presented midriff, preferably on display in summer...   But seriously, arguably the most iconic riff in rock music is the one that insistently drives "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction" by the Stones. By the way, wiki also describes it as a hook. The long feedback note at the start of "I Feel Fine" was initially an accident caused by Lennon getting his guitar too upclose and personal with an amplifier, whereafter George Martin suggested incorporating it in the song. The guitar passage following it is a great example of a riff.

Subject: RE: When is a riff not a riff?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Dec 25 - 06:51 AM

I can play the "Smoke on the Water" riff on my anglo concertina :-)

Subject: RE: When is a riff not a riff?
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 18 Dec 25 - 07:08 AM

This thread made me think about this ditty by Martin Mull-
Licks off of Records

Subject: RE: When is a riff not a riff?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Dec 25 - 09:41 AM

Doesn't open for me gillymor. Just says "video not available"

Subject: RE: When is a riff not a riff?
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 18 Dec 25 - 10:01 AM

It works for me, Dave, maybe it's a regional thing. I'll try again on another device-

Licks off of Records- Martin Mull

and with Glen Campbell