BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: GUEST,Don Firth
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 04:53 PM

As I recall, as one of the buildings began to collapse in on itself, the top section (above the impact point of the airliner) did begin to heel over a bit, but it continued to fall straight down. It would be a violation of the laws of physics for it to have done otherwise. Buildings that tall, whatever the cause of their collapse, do not fall over sideways like felled trees. They collapse into their own footprint (give or take a scattering of debris when they hit the ground).

Don Firth

P. S. I'm amazed that this discussion is still going on.

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 10:13 PM

Don, I'm not...


:-)

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: GUEST,Don Firth
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 10:23 PM

Truth to tell, neither am I. It is characteristic of the members of the Flat Earth Society and others like them never to give up. Oh, well, it must be nice to have all that time to piddle away. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: GUEST,Physics Major
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 12:10 AM

The top section is taller than it is wide, so it's not a cube, and it was top-heavy, with the reinforced roof, but fine, say it behaved like a cube.

It was falling sideways and rotating as it fell, then the videos show it righted itself and reversed its rotation as the building beneath it began to disintegrate.

The NIST report stopped at the point of the initiation of collapse. They didn't even try to explain the behavior of the top section of the building.

The top section righted itself and changed direction of rotation. The unnatural behavior could have been due to 1) unnatural outside forces (which could only be demolitions) or 2) natural forces that contradict OTHER natural forces which were at work that day. I know bombs were in the buildings because I see the video evidence and have read the chemical analysis of the debris, but I think #2 above is the primary reason NIST stopped short of addressing the actual falls.

The government said steel was weakened to the point of collapse by fires as hot as those you can achieve on your stove top (your stove doesn't melt). But the government said some puny little fires weakened the steel in the buildings. Then the top of WTC2 started falling over sideways, and the most likely thing that stopped it's falling and reversed its spin would be the steel columns on the opposite side of the building. It collapsed and fell towards one side, then the lower floors began to mysteriously vaporize and fall, but enough of the external supports were in place on the opposite side to pull the top section back into place.

That's what it LOOKS like happened, but how can that be so? The conspiracy theorists say steel is hardly more able to withstand heat than wood, so how could those opposing supports pull that amount of weight back into line? Reason is, steel is incredibly strong. Strong enough to withstand a few minutes of kerosene fire followed by burning trashcans. But the govt would have a LOT of explaining to do if they went into the true nature of steel, so let's just stop the report there and stamp "final" on it.

THE TOP 40
REASONS TO DOUBT THE OFFICIAL STORY OF SEPTEMBER 11th, 2001

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041221155307646

Who pays you people to support the government's 19 cavemen story, by the way? Olesko works for one of the Homeland Security torture universities, so that's his paymaster, who what about the rest of you?

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: artbrooks
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 12:36 AM

Ho hum. 19 cavemen, eh? You do know that Jarrah, Atta, Shehhi and Hanjour all had commercial pilot ratings and time in jet simulators, right?

And who pays you to accuse the government of murdering nearly 3000 of its own citizens? Are you really an Al Quaida operative?

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: GUEST,Physics Major
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 02:01 AM

From the London Guardian:

The chair and vice chair of the 9/11 Commission, respectively Thomas Kean and Lee Hamilton, assert in their book, Without Precedent, that they were "set up to fail" and were starved of funds to do a proper investigation. They also confirm that they were denied access to the truth and misled by senior officials in the Pentagon and the federal aviation authority; and that this obstruction and deception led them to contemplate slapping officials with criminal charges.

Despite the many public statements by 9/11 commissioners and staff members acknowledging they were repeatedly lied to, not a single person has ever been charged, tried, or even reprimanded, for lying to the 9/11 Commission.

From the outset, the commission seemed to be hobbled. It did not start work until over a year after the attacks. Even then, its terms of reference were suspiciously narrow, its powers of investigation curiously limited and its time-frame for producing a report unhelpfully short - barely a year to sift through millions of pages of evidence and to interview hundreds of key witnesses.

The final report did not examine key evidence, and neglected serious anomalies in the various accounts of what happened. The commissioners admit their report was incomplete and flawed, and that many questions about the terror attacks remain unanswered. Nevertheless, the 9/11 Commission was swiftly closed down on August 21 2004.

I do not believe in conspiracy theories. I prefer rigorous, evidence-based analysis that sifts through the known facts and utilises expert opinion to draw conclusions that stand up to critical scrutiny. In other words, I believe in everything the 9/11 Commission was not.

The failings of the official investigation have fuelled too many half-baked conspiracy theories. Some of the 9/11 "truth" groups promote speculative hypotheses, ignore innocent explanations, cite non-expert sources and jump to conclusions that are not proven by the known facts. They convert mere coincidence and circumstantial evidence into cast-iron proof. This is no way to debunk the obfuscations and evasions of the 9/11 report.

But even amid the hype, some of these 9/11 groups raise valid and important questions that were never even considered, let alone answered, by the official investigation. The American public has not been told the complete truth about the events of that fateful autumn morning six years ago.

What happened on 9/11 is fundamentally important in its own right. But equally important is the way the 9/11 cover-up signifies an absence of democratic, transparent and accountable government. Establishing the truth is, in part, about restoring honesty, trust and confidence in American politics.

There are dozens of 9/11 "truth" websites and campaign groups. I cannot vouch for the veracity or credibility of any of them. But what I can say is that as well as making plenty of seemingly outrageous claims; a few of them raise legitimate questions that demand answers.

Four of these well known "tell the truth" 9/11 websites are:

1) Scholars for 9/11 Truth, which includes academics and intellectuals from many disciplines.

2) 250+ 9/11 'Smoking Guns' a website that cites over 250 pieces of evidence that allegedly contradict, or were omitted from, the 9/11 Commission report.

3) The 911 Truth Campaign that, as well as offering its own evidence and theories, includes links to more than 20 similar websites.

4) Patriots Question 9/11, perhaps the most plausible array of distinguished US citizens who question the official account of 9/11, including General Wesley Clark, former Nato commander in Europe, and seven members and staffers of the official 9/11 Commission, including the chair and vice chair. In all, this website documents the doubts of 110+ senior military, intelligence service, law enforcement and government officials; 200+ engineers and architects; 50+ pilots and aviation professionals; 150+ professors; 90+ entertainment and media people; and 190+ 9/11 survivors and family members. Although this is an impressive roll call, it doesn't necessarily mean that these expert professionals are right. Nevertheless, their scepticism of the official version of events is reason to pause and reflect.

etc. Excellent article.

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/peter_tatchell/2007/09/911_the_big_coverup.html

So how are you paid to support the 9/11 lie, artbrooks? You got a government job? A pension? Government contracts? Wife with government income? Prospect of employment with the welfare state fascists if they take the white house and continue the lie? Those are the reasons Hitler's Germans had for supporting him, so what are yours?

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 10:32 AM

"Olesko works for one of the Homeland Security torture universities"

booga booga booga I'm coming for you next Major!!! Hide your possessions and head for the hills. Roll up your tar-paper shack and grab your favorite goat.

Is that the best you have? You resort to lies and innuendo when you can't face reality?   You work for the conservatives that are spreading these lies. You just a low life tool that has been brainwashed into this cult. Get the help you need. These pleas for help are just the start. Get yourself checked in before you check out.

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 11:17 AM

"the videos show it righted itself"

It hit the floor beneath, and due to momentum transfer, it stopped rotating... Geez!!!!! We have to spell this BASIC PHYSICS crap OUT?!!!

For a "Physics Major" you do present as pretty fooking dumb, mate, I'd say you're gonna fail!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: GUEST,Physics Major
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 01:07 PM

There was no 'floor beneath it,' fool. The floors were being pulverized. Zipper squibs down the sides of the buildings.

And you work in conjunction with a government-funded university/radio media outlet, Olesko. Your job depends on that continued inflow of government money, so of course you'll defend whatever the government tells you to defend. But I'm curious--do they tell you in seminars what you have to do to serve the party, or do you just pick up your fascist talking points through the grapevine?

The 'talking points' can be heard daily on Rush Limbaugh and National Public Radio. One is 'right wing' and one is 'left wing', but both support the government's line of BS regarding the so-called war on terror. The Democrats vote to go along with Bush on the wars and the destruction of American civil liberties, then NPR airs some 'dissenting voice' and suggests that the voice is expressing the 'Democratic' attitude. And on the other side, Limbaugh criticizes the Democrats for not being behind the president, while the DEMOCRATS SUPPORT HIM WITH THEIR VOTES. See how it works? They put up a 'dissenter', who becomes the focus of attention for both the right and the left. And Olesko's a part of that. I suspect he does it for his paycheck, but I could be wrong. He could be just another misguided welfare-state fascist. They're not too bright.

But I'm curious why you other Americans support the fascists in Washington DC. The right-wing fascists are about to lose their elected positions, so now we're hearing more from the left-wing fascists. The welfare-state fascists. And I'm surprised you Democrats are suddenly in favor of the war and the loss of your civil rights. You acted so pissed off about those things before the 2006 election. A report a while back said 53% of Americans now receive a 'significant' portion of income from the government, so is THAT the reason you support genocide and the destruction of your founding documents? Because of money? I can understand supporting fascism for ideological reasons, but because of MONEY? Help me out here. Why do you support the fascist status quo?

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 01:17 PM

There you go again.. speaking like your old buddy Reagan. You like to pontificate to cloud the fact that you are part of the same regime you pretend to attack.

You aren't fooling anyone.

You know very well that I am not employed by the university, and the course that you have twisted into some diabolical plot (like you did 9/11) is nothing more than a security course that is taught at colleges all across the country.

You are guilty and you can't hide the blood on your hands you sniveling coward. Grow a set and stop twisting the facts to fit your script. Think for yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 01:20 PM

Let me get this right. Anyone who disagrees with you supports the fascist status quo?

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 01:31 PM

Wesley - one Pysick Major's talking points has been that you are either with her or against her. Doesn't that sound familiar to the spew that the commander-in-chief has tried to espouse?

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: GUEST,Physics Major
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 05:35 PM

There is no difference between the right-wing corporate fascists and the left-wing state-welfare fascists.

Use health insurance, as an example. Democrats are upset that big pharmaceutical companies are getting away with huge profits under GWBush. Corporate pharma WRITES the legislation the congress passes and Bush signs. The Democrats are mad.

Enter Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, etc.--Democrats who say the government should take over healthcare.   

This is classic fascist absorption. First, government allows private businesses to monopolize an industry, then the government nationalizes that industry. The SAME PEOPLE CONTINUE TO OWN AND RUN THE INDUSTRY, but the citizens are sold the lie that the industry is somehow now more "accessible" and "universal" under the "liberals."

That's what the left-wing fascists like Olesko are pushing. I know he does it for a meal ticket, but I wonder why some of you others endorse this kind of tyranny in the U.S. Why would you promote the continued consolidation of the assets of the U.S. into the hands of a few corporate elite? Roche and the big drug companies are controlling the healthcare industry under Bush, and they'll continue to do so under a Democratic white house. All that's going to change is the rhetoric. So, why do you tolerate this? Why do you endorse left-wing fascism? Is it a conscious decision? Do personal financial concerns cause you to turn a blind eye to things like this and the "bi-partisan" coverup of 9/11, or are you truly in favor of tyranny?

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 05:57 PM

"or are you truly in favor of tyranny?"

Hey I loved Gene Tyranny. I thought her best movie was "Laura" but she was good in "The Razor's Edge" too.

Gene Tyranny

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: artbrooks
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 06:26 PM

"The government nationalizes that industry. The SAME PEOPLE CONTINUE TO OWN AND RUN THE INDUSTRY." You do know that "nationalize" means that the government assumes ownership, with or without compensation to the former owners? Or is your understanding of economic/political theory as basic as your physics?

Oh, forget it. Continue to babble, as you prefer. I think I'll find something more interesting to do, like inventory navel lint.

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: GUEST,Don Firth
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 08:54 PM

Jayzuz!! Is this physick character actually allowed out without a nurse? Why do they let him/her/it play with computers?

Gets more bonkers with every post!

Don Firth

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know! I, too, and part of the Nazi-Commie-Left/Right Wing-Fox News-NPR-Bush-Clinton-Obama-Cheney-Alfred E. Newman-Karl Rove-Illuminati-Masonic-U. N.-black helicopter-Jewish International Conspiracy-Cub Scouts-Nose Pickers Anonymous Interplanetary Conspiracy.

I confess! I confess!

Fell better now, Fizzick?

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: GUEST,Physics Major
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 11:02 PM

The corporations will BECOME the government. You guys can't even complete a simple equation? When the "liberals" nationalize healthcare, Merck and Roche and the other big pharma companies will be hired to run the healthcare system they already own because "they have the experience needed." Welfare-state fascism.

My favorite story of the day. Do a search for Victoria Zdrok, Geraldo Rivera's "expert" for the airline piece. Dr. Zdrok is a pornstar. This thing is hilarious. The 9/11 lie is sooo dead:

Says Geraldo At Large host Geraldo Rivera to the crowd, chanting "9/11 was an inside job" at the beginning of the show: "Get a life."

The protesters continue chanting as Rivera reports on the high temperature in New York City (87 degrees Fahrenheit), causing the death of one dog left in a hot car. As Dr. Jennifer Ashton explains, the heat from inside a car will cause a dog, unable to sweat, to go into organ failure.

As the chants continue in the background, Rivera and Ashton look over the results of a baking experiment. The inside of the car used in the experiment, as it turns out, was hot enough to bake their batch of cookies to completion.

"The proteins in our body literally become denatured," explains Dr. Ashton, of the effects of a hot car interior. "They separate, and that's how people die." ...

"We've been surrounded by an activist--radical--I don't know, Communist group. I don't know who the hell they are," says Rivera after returning from commercial. Vocal protests continue unabated in the background.

To screams and chants, Rivera and correspondent Laurie Dhue discuss the minutiae of Republican Senator Larry Craig's arrest. Also giving their input are psychologist Dr. Victoria Zdrok and three detectives who have worked on sex stings.

"As this group of misfits behind me continue their chanting," Rivera quips, he waves his fist at the camera to express his annoyance. ...

"All Hell is breaking loose on 6th Avenue," says Rivera, as video is taken of police approaching the crowd to make arrests.

"You need a permit to protest -- or demonstrate -- here in New York, but this anarchist group came forward. They really are one of the least attractive groups of demonstrators I've ever seen."

After a few more choice words and the desire to avoid using "foul language," Rivera returns to his scripted story: The story of Southwest Airlines passenger Kyla Ebbert, told to change her outfit by attendants.

In a gesture of solidarity, female correspondents Pirro, Zdrok and Ashton appear on stage with Ebbert in outfits identical to the one that prompted her booting from the plane.

"Did you realize that you were going to get caught in such a controversy?" asks Rivera.

"Never," responds the former Hooters waitress, with banners waving behind her and chants continuing in the background. "I never imagined that this outfit would get me noticed for anything other than it's a very cute outfit."

When asked if she could believe it when it was the outfit that caused her to be ejected from the flight, Ebbert affirmed that she could not have imagined that situation taking place.

Judge Pirro, while not sure if there are grounds for a lawsuit, commends Ebbert for standing her ground.

"This is why we live in a free country," says Dr. Zdrok. "We are free to wear what we want to wear as long as it's not offensive."

"You have to be strong and stand by your beliefs," says Dr. Zdrok to Ms. Ebbert.

"They should be more concerned about terrorism than someone as innocuous as a college student who's dressed in the way kids dress," says Pirro.

Ebbert is a student of international business, and has "now decided to pursue law."

The following video is from Fox's Geraldo at Large, broadcast on September 8.

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/911_truthseekers_arrested_for_protesting_Foxs_0909.html

All hell breaking loose over 9/11 truth, people being harrassed and arrested by police in the background, while Geraldo and his perverts give you a story about cookies, then an aside on homosexual politics, then a judge and a pornstar talking about living in a free society.

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: GUEST,Don Firth
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 11:07 PM

You obviously watch too much television, Fizzywig. It's turned your brain to oatmeal.

That explains a lot.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 08:48 AM

"the heat from inside a car will cause a dog, unable to sweat,"

Total failure in Physics AND Biology...

The dog still sweats... till it dehydrates...

... oh AND Home Cooking... actually, I typoed Coking - but that's pretty close too! :-)

... part of the 'cooking process' of meat is partial dehydration ... steam comes off (both processes!)



"Ebbert is a student of international business, and has "now decided to pursue law.""

Hope he stays away from any case that involves me...


Ok, I know I'm a bit slow, but what does Dr Drokiedrok have to do with 9/11?

Oh I see, it's another desperate 'look over there' debating tactic typical of our troll...


"You obviously watch too much television, Fizzywig. It's turned your brain to oatmeal"

Ah! The satellites have been hacked!

I do so love closure...

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: GUEST,Physics Major
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 09:39 AM

The point of the story is that a thousand people were in the background as Geraldo Rivera did his show on the streets of New York City. The people in the background were screaming "911 was an inside job!" while Geraldo went through his schtick with his hookers. A thousand people demonstrating on live TV. The jig is up. The 19 cavemen story has been exposed, despite the best bi-partisan efforts to popularize it.

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 10:24 AM

"That's what the left-wing fascists like Olesko are pushing. I know he does it for a meal ticket,"

Thanks for the compliment. I also hope that your rants will someday help me to get a paycheck for my radio work.

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 01:16 PM

Thanks for posting the link to the Geraldo broadcast. It's a fascinating and rather hilarious look at the trivial stuff that passes for "news" in the USA. It's not news at all, it's merely a means of momentarily entertaining and distracting a passively ignorant society that lives largely in denial.

Nothing new about that.

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: GUEST,Physics Major
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 01:29 PM

The Geraldo Rivera piece (video at the previous link) is a perfect microcosmic example of what's going on with American media and the expansion of fascism triggered by 9/11. You folks overseas would do well to study the video. It will show you WHY Americans seem so blase about the atrocities being perpetrated by the American government.

On the day the piece was filmed, Geraldo was outside in NYC just doing another of his usual distraction broadcasts. Look at him. He's dressed like a buffoon. And his topics--a dead dog in a car, baking cookies in a hot car, a senator's bathroom sex antics, then an "in depth" piece about a woman's apparel on a plane flight. His expert consultant on the piece is a porn star.

So that's on his agenda when he goes outside to film, but then a crowd of a thousand people shows up. They're chanting that September 11 was an inside government job. Geraldo pushes on with his show. He tries to ignore the crowd, but when he can't, he tries to portray them as anarchists, communists, bathroom perverts, "ugly," etc. The last portrayal of the demonstrators is the most telling when it comes to the media's handling of the 9/11 truth movement in America. Geraldo tells the demonstrators to "get a life" at the beginning of the episode, but he seems to be just fine with his life of serving the people who murdered 3000 on 9/11. Geraldo's a happy guy because he gets recognized from TV and gets to hang out with porn stars. He has no problem living in a burgeoning military dictatorship. And then when he encounters REAL people, who DO have a problem with being ruled over by murderous thugs, he reveals his deepest feelings on the subject. The demonstrators are ugly. See, it's all about appearances to him. He can't deal with the thing behind the pasteboard mask, so he primps and preens and feels offended when people who are concerned about their childrens' futures intrude on his little bit of air time. He feels offended because they're ugly. What a guy.

So much for my analysis of a turd. But that's why America seems so unconcerned about what's going on in the world. We're being shown garbage about porn stars and dead dogs instead of REAL stories.

About half of Americans now believe the govt had a hand in 9/11. More every day. The game's over. False flag terrorism will never work again in America. Now the govt will have to resort to brute force rather than deception in order to achieve their goals. All they can do is try to hand the police state powers over to the "other team" and hope the Democrats will make use of the concentration camps.

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: GUEST,Physics Major
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 01:31 PM

Cross-posted. Yep. That's it Little Hawk. That piece of video is a gift from above. It illustrates perfectly... I already chewed that cabbage.

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 03:28 PM

There was an old Arnold Schwarzennegger movie in the 80's which envisioned a future American society run by a military dictatorship, with extremely heightened security everywhere (for "protection of the public" of course...), all kinds of checkpoints to pass through on your daily trips to work or shopping, and I.D. to present, and TV everywhere. Yes, flashy TV entertainment and sensational yet trivial "news" shows were the opiate of that society. The poor, who could not afford TVs, were living in festering urban ghettos with a huge outdoor TV screen mounted in every neighborhood, so they could watch for free! A kindly government service. ;-) The TV shows, of course, were designed to maintain the status quo, keep people distracted, and they were much like the crap we watch now...really not a whole lot of difference.

The well-off lived in gleaming highrises, shopped in shiny malls, and wore groovy clothing...like Geraldo. They joined fitness clubs, went out to fancy restaurants, and NEVER entered the awful ghettos where the poor struggled daily just to survive.

One was expected to follow all the rules, talk the talk, and do one's job....

The movie was called "The Running Man". It was pretty typical Hollywood action fare, but its view of the future was rather prophetic in some respects.

The protagonist is a member of the government security forces. He flies a heavily armed attack helicopter. When ordered to fire on a protest demonstration of unarmed civilians in a plaza, he refuses, and is arrested. The fire mission goes ahead, of course, executed by some other more obedient helicopter pilot.

The protagonist is later presented on TV news reports as a rogue killer, a terrorist who disobeyed orders and used his military helicopter to slaughter a group of unarmed citizens in a public plaza. He has become society's official "bad guy" in one simple dissemination of false news reports that everyone believes without a moment's hesitation, and why wouldn't they? He is condemned to face imprisonment and probable death.

Thus the Network TV News serves perfectly as the government's organ of deception, and and the loose ends are neatly disposed of...the demonstration is quashed, the demonstrators are mostly killed (or arrested and detained...permanently), and the disobedient pilot is also disposed of.

Only it's a Hollywood movie, so you know that Arnold is going to find a way to beat them in the end. ;-)

In real life, single individuals do not normally find a way to beat something like that. (in my opinion) But it does finally get beaten... By what? By its own insanity. It falls eventually under the weight of its own iniquity, because it is based on unreal premises. It becomes intolerable to too many people, and it falls. That's what happened to Hitler's Nazi Germany, for example...and to Stalin's regime...and to Mussolini's...and to Tojo's. In time they fail, and they are swept away.

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: Peace
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 03:47 PM

"In real life, single individuals do not normally find a way to beat something like that."

That is true. But (I think it was) Seeger who did a song that included a line that went "one and one make a million". If ya don't try, for sure ya lose. If you do, you may lose anyway, but it's kinda neat to let the bastards know they were in a fight. I always hoped that when my time came, I'd be thinking of ways to be "lookin' good." It's a goal at least.

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 05:59 PM

For sure. That's why I would never fault anyone for trying, even if "resistance is futile"...(as the saying goes)

Better to face death with honor, right?

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: GUEST,Physics Major
Date: 19 Sep 07 - 12:04 AM

The censors at mudcat don't want this news posted on its own, so I'll put it here. It continues a theme brought up earlier here anyway.

Fascism. Hillary-style:

WASHINGTON - Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton said Tuesday that a mandate requiring every American to purchase health insurance was the only way to achieve universal health care but she rejected the notion of punitive measures to force individuals into the health care system.

"At this point, we don't have anything punitive that we have proposed," the presidential candidate said in an interview with The Associated Press. "We're providing incentives and tax credits which we think will be very attractive to the vast majority of Americans."

She said she could envision a day when "you have to show proof to your employer that you're insured as a part of the job interview — like when your kid goes to school and has to show proof of vaccination," but said such details would be worked out through negotiations with Congress....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070918/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_ap_interview_6

If you don't know what's wrong with this, then you're comatose. Textbook example of welfare-state fascism. The Clintons have served the insurance industry forever, but this is a bit much. They're going to make it MANDATORY that you PURCHASE health insurance. Remember the good old days when auto liability insurance was optional? Now you have to have it or you can be fined. Today are the good old days when health insurance is optional. Tomorrow you'll be fined if you don't have it. The precedent is there.

This is SO over the top. A pure giveaway to PRIVATE insurance companies who are now going to have LAWS passed saying you have to PAY them for "protection." This is sheer mafia behavior. This is private corporations taking over the government--welfare-state fascism.

You are going to be a CRIMINAL if you don't pony up a thousand bucks a month to the insurance companies. And if they follow the liability insurance model, once the health insurance thing is mandatory, the price will DOUBLE. And if you're caught TWICE without health insurance, you'll go to JAIL.

And the woman who would be King tells a flat out lie when she's talking about vaccinations being mandatory. Vaccines are not mandatory in any of the United States. Parents have an opt-out clause. You DON'T HAVE TO LET STRANGERS INJECT FOREIGN SUBSTANCES INTO YOUR CHILD'S BODY. But a woman like Clinton, would would tell a murderous lie like that, do you think she gives a damn about YOUR health?

This is a consequence of not demanding the truth concerning 9/11. Because you let the killers remain in power, you will now be thrown to the "other party" to be chewed on for a while. The heir apparent in that party once talked about It Takes a Village, and she wanted to take care of you, etc., but now you see she wants to make you pay for insurance you can't afford. And punitive steps for not having insurance are on the table. And you won't be getting health insurance as a job benefit any more because you have to be self-insured TO EVEN APPLY FOR THE JOB! And THIS is what you fucking Democrats support?! You don't NEED health insurance, you are already BRAIN DEAD!

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Sep 07 - 09:06 AM

Ah and all this BS relates to "China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11" in what way?

I see, it proves that you accept that you were talking unscientific crap - OK.


"The censors at mudcat don't want this news posted on its own"

You misunderstand. They just want to confine your hysterical gibberish to ONE open THREAD AT A TIME...

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Sep 07 - 09:33 AM

Save the cheerleader and save the world

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: Wesley S
Date: 19 Sep 07 - 10:43 AM

"Remember the good old days when auto liability insurance was optional?"

Major - I'm curious. Do you think that all insurance should be optional?

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Sep 07 - 12:24 AM

"all insurance should be optional?"

It is expected to be - by those insuring their stuff. What is not expected is that those paying out also regard it as optional...

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 01:06 AM

Wibble, wibble wibble.

Subject: RE: BS: China's skyscraper, Fire & 9/11
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 01:25 AM

Blood! Let's have BLOOD!

(Sick!)

Don Firth