MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 12:58 AM

The problem, LilyFestre, is that if Jessica's condition continues to deteriorate because of her father's absence, there is a real possibility that she will have to be institutionalized, possibly permanently. If Cindy and her husband can't afford the cost of institutionalization, the public will have to pay for it.

Cindy and Russell would much rather care for Jessica themselves at home, and that is why they are working so hard to get the family back together again... to prevent Jessica from requiring institutionalization, and to keep their family together, as it should be.

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: sagecw
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 06:30 AM

I am sorry i made that post because i was upset at gargolye..of course he is helping support her...again i am sorry ...it was just a reaction to a post...i will be quite now...and wait till i make anymore post...

cindy

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: Bo Vandenberg
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 07:42 AM

The only stone I can think of that may be left unturned is medical. Try to get Jessica's situation reviewed by as reputable a medical body as you can. Local universities or training colleges come to mind. If you can justify and rejustify the medical link - post some medical opinions on your website - you might lend more authority to your plight. Also if your husband has a job waiting for him, get a letter from the business that needs his skills.

Try to show a complete web of success except for the missing piece of red tape. That will improve the appeal of your case - everyone loves helping success.


I wish you luck from here in Canada,

Sigurd

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: LilyFestre
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 01:09 PM

Listen, I haven't said that families don't belong together or anything but when someone makes such a statement about the taxpayers paying for her daughter's care one way or another kind of ruffles my feathers....and THAT is asking for money, even though it is indirectly. I think that those who legitimately seek help is vastly different from those who feel "entitled." Yes, there is an entitlement (by US Law) and I personally feel that help is a grand thing....it's the attitude that is bothersome to me.

I knew some would have issues with what I wrote, but those are my thoughts.

I do wish them the best of luck and hope the family can be reunited.

Michelle

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: Bo Vandenberg
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 01:48 PM

Hi Michelle,

My sense of it was that Cindy was looking at the whole situation, not asking for money. The scenarios where a single mother cannot take care of a challenged child all by herself are many. Reuniting a family to give it more resources to take care of its own seems like good financial policy for the government. I think that is what was intended.

Institutional care might last for the next 80+ years and it is certainly not a mother's wish for her daughter. Everybody wants Jessica to have the best chance at happiness including the country that calls her citizen.

Sigurd

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: LilyFestre
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 01:52 PM

CarolC,

    Aren't you curious about why it is that she would have to be institutionalized? I see that someone asked about it and personally, I am curious too. If her mother has cared for her for over a year now without the father, the rate of decline is what? I would think the initial trauma of Russell not being there would have been incredibly difficult for both mother and daughter...but with the passing of time and getting accustomed to a new routine, how does that end in institional care? I'm a bit confused I guess. I'm not suggesting that the separation is easy for anyone involved in the situation....not at all.

I've PM'd Cindy and we've discussed her post and my response....I guess her response is the only one that I'm interested in.


Michelle

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: Peace
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 08:51 PM

Cindy,

Are you hearing anything back from anyone?

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: GUEST,US
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 08:59 PM

Have you tried John Kerry? He said he can fix everything.

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: Peace
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 09:01 PM

Well, that's a neat idea. Sure as heck Bush can't.

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 09:31 PM

LilyFestre, Cindy and I have been in contact via e-mail. I have some information about her situation and Jessica's. I am trying to help in the ways I am most able. I understand your feelings, but I think that they are based on a misunderstanding about the post of Cindy's that you are having a probelm with.

I know that you have been in a similar emotional state to what Cindy is most certainly experiencing right now. I know that you know it is possible to reach a level of dispair and stress so great that not everything you say comes out the way you would want if you were not under so much stress. I have had such experiences myself, and I definitely know what she is going through emotionally. Because of that, I choose to not be judgemental if, from time to time, she expresses herself in a way that is more emotional than reasoned.

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: Peace
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 09:33 PM

LilyFestre,

I too have written back and forth with Cindy. Carol is correct in what she says.

Bruce M

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: sagecw
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 10:13 AM

bruce...i am sorry to say i have hear nothing from anyone..*sigh*

cindy

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: Peace
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 10:31 AM

Folks who are gonna try--have been trying to help this family:

We have got to get organized. Would those of you who are going to HELP please beging to post here so we can maybe meet in chat at a given hour on a given day and get our stuff together? We need a plan. We also need a good organizer--maybe McG of H or Carol? (Don't mean to slight anyone, and I am not trying to avoid doing any work--but I am not all that organized myself.

Cindy, hope this is OK with you, and you'll have to be there too.

Bruce M

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 12:50 PM

I'm a terrible organizer. If you guys get something figured out, let me know and if I can, I'll try to join you. I warn you though, I am terrible with chat situations. They go too fast for me.

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: LilyFestre
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 01:26 PM

Ok guys,

   My situation is nothing like Cindy's. I am not judging anyone, only trying to learn more. I have spent the last 10 years of my life working with children/families in crisis and was interested in knowing more in order to further assist.

   Yep, the comment regarding something along the lines of too bad...your tax dollars are going to pay for my daughter's care unless I get what I want...sat wrong with me, and frankly, it still does.

   It's of no matter. She is right, the US government will pay for whatever her daughter needs and that's fine.....it's well deserved....the attitude is what sticks out more than anything.

CarolC, I have to say once again, that Veronica's situation couldn't be further from what Jessica is going through. One has parents who love her and want what is best for her....the other just doesn't. I could go on, but what's the point?

Good luck Cindy. The infamous know-it-all clan has turned away yet another person who had every good intention at heart.

Michelle

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: sagecw
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 01:27 PM

sure you tell me where and when and i will be there

cindy

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 01:44 PM

LilyFestre, I didn't say that Veronica's situation is anything like Jessicas. What I said was that you have experienced a similar emotional state to what Cindy is experiencing. My own son's situation was not the same as Jessica's, but my emotional state was pretty much just the same as Cindy's.

The emotional state is the pretty much the same for all of us when someone we love beyond life is being threatened by forces over which we have no control. The feelings of helplessness, the feelings of isolation when there is no help to be had from those who are given the job of protecting children at risk, the feelings of abject fear for the object of our love, wanting to be able to do something about it... to fix it, and not being able to do so. The feelings are the same, even if the circumstances are not. I know this from my own experience.

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: GUEST,McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 03:06 PM

Aplogies for gargoyle, to Cindy and anyone else reading this and sharing my sense of disgust. There are some people built like that, but fortunately not that many. Ignore him. And I will do so from this point on.

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: LilyFestre
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 03:51 PM

CarolC,

   Yes, you are right and I am wrong. I misread the post. I can't say one way or the other if you and Cindy and I share the same feelings as I think those are unique to each individual.

Michelle

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 03:58 PM

I understand, LilyFestre. My only point was that I think Cindy ought to be cut some slack if, in the highly distressed and stressed out state she is experiencing right now, she snaps when she finds herself being tormented by someone like Gargoyle, and gives an emotional rsponse rather than a purely rational one. I'm sure you can understand that.

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 09:36 PM

As the truth comes into light - how quickly - the spiders scurry back to the darkness.

Its been over 24 hours - lets see if this zombee can resurrect. (With eight gargoyle postings deleted to this thread - (and who knows how many other's alternate-view postings) perhaps, with a little effort (and the clones taking a night off) some REAL discussion of a "wife's place being with her husband" can occur.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: Peace
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 10:20 PM

OK, there's the guy we all know and love. What can you do to help, G?

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: DaveA
Date: 06 Nov 04 - 08:29 AM

I have to say that I find myself a bit confused about the heat that this thread has raised.

After all, as far as I can make out, Cindy is not a Mudcatter but rather someone who has been pointed in our direction as a (dare I say it) lobby group that may further publicise her predicament. OK, as long as we recognise that as what it is.

I am an Aussie with absolutely no time for the current Government & it's policies re the admittance of "boat people" etc but it has to be said that anyone seeking residence in Australia is naive in the extreme if they do not make themselves aware of what the current policy is. Similarly, anyone overstaying their entrance visa to the US in the post 7/11 world is plain stupid. I have a daughter who admittedly is now adult but I cannot imagine I would have been so short sighted as to have placed her long term welfare at such risk as is the case here.

One problem I have with modern society is the concept of "victim" & the automatic absolution of all failings if that title is claimed. The Twelve Step Group I have belonged to for 16 years suggests that when we accept that the consequences of our actions are our own responsibility we have a chance to change things.

And finally, perhaps we should have a look at a very relevant song in the Digital Tradition. It's by Tom Lehrer & called "The Folk Song Army"

Dave

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Nov 04 - 10:06 AM

Problem is, DaveA, it's not Russell who will be the victim. It will Jessica who will suffer the most. Whether or not you like what people are doing to help Jessica in principle, we will continue to do it. You don't have to help if you don't want to. I don't see what you hope to accomplish by sniping though.

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: Peace
Date: 06 Nov 04 - 03:05 PM

If this was a tangle that involved just Cindy and her husband, I would feel much as DaveA does with regard to the adults involved. Do the crime, do the time. However, it is not just about them. This is about a fifteen-year-old girl who has special needs, and a system that has lost sight of her. The law may be on the side of government bureaucracy; justice must be on the side of the child. Even if it was Gargoyle's child I would feel the same and I would be wanting to help. This is not about the parents. It's about Jessica, and that will continue to be my focus.

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: Peace
Date: 06 Nov 04 - 06:41 PM

Cindy, I hope the above post didn't sound offensive. Such was not my intent, OK?

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: sagecw
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 07:13 AM

bruce...its ok..no problem

cindy

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: GUEST,Festus
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 08:22 AM

Ain't nobody helpin' cause the husband let his Visa expar. Why'd he do thait? Fes

Subject: BS: A family divided
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 09:57 AM

There are two different things seem to be happening on this thread. There are some people who are trying to help a family in a very difficult siutuation, and a child with problems that threaten her future. And there are some people who are throwing up various reasons why they don't want to help, or why there isn't any reason to help.

So why don't the people who don't want to help, or don't think it's a situation where anybody should try to help, just start up another thread arguing that kind of stuff back and forth?

That's a serious suggestion, and one that in no way interferes with or threatens to interfere with your freedom to say what you want to. You go on thinking other people are wasting their time, if you choose to, but please don't waste your own time doing that here.

I can't be friendlier than that, can I? See you on the music threads some time. Or, if you start that other thread, maybe I'll come on over and argue with you there. But it seems to me that this just isn't the right place to do it.

Incidentally I think the title on this one might be better switched to something like the one I've given it.

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 03:38 PM

Good on yer McGrath of Harlow.

Anybody that doesn't have a special needs child, doesn't always understand the anguish those parents have to go through.

"So why don't the people who don't want to help, or don't think it's a situation where anybody should try to help, just start up another thread arguing that kind of stuff back and forth?"

Yes sod off and start another thread - this is all about a poor little girl who hasn't got her dad to support her and is going through hell. If you can't understand that, then you are a disgrace.

Enough said.

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: Com Seangan
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 03:56 PM

Gee. I only looked in out of lousy curiosity and I am overwhelmed by the amount of sincere and caring people on this site. God bless you Cindy and all the good people who show concern and support.

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: Peace
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 11:49 PM

Cindy,

Have you heard at all from that congressman in the 16th (?) district?

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: sagecw
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 06:39 AM

bruce....I contacted congressman trent the other day..they are inquiring into where in the line our paperwork is but i haven't heard back from him yet..but no one has contacted me at all..

cindy

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 08:28 AM

I think they would probably only be starting to come down from their Election Night high.

Maybe letters or faxes (rather than emails)to Congressman Pitts congratulating him on getting elected might be the way to go - "and could you do something to help this family". From Googling around it appears that he makes great play on being be strong on family values, and I can't thing of a clearer case than this to demonstrate that kind of concern. (And if anyone wants to argue about that, go start that other thread, and we can do that there.)

And I'm not being sarcastic here - this business with Jessica and her family seems to me to be just the kind of situation where political disagreements just have no place whatsoever. Right wing politicians, in my experience, can often be very energetic in acting as advocates for individual constituents who are up against bureaucracy.

(Though I don't think that letters to him from across the Atlantic would help too much.)

Congressional District 16, Pennsylvania:

Joseph R. Pitts(Republican) - 181,799         64.45%
Lois K. Herr (Democrat)                      97,076         34.41%         
William Robert Hagen         (Green)               3,212    1.14%         
Total                                              282,087         

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: Peace
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 09:18 PM

Cindy, that is good news. It isn't great news, YET, but it is good news. Keep hoping, and give Jessica a big hug from all of us.

Bruce

Pennsylvania catters: where are y'all. These gals need your help. Twenty minutes of your time.

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 08:03 PM

This thread is getting a bit long, and the heading has done it's work for now - it's gathered some people who have a shared concern for seeingthis family allowed to get back together again. So Cindy agreed it might be a good idea to move over to a new thread, Jessica and the Bureaucrats.

That can be somewhere where news about any new developments can be posted, so people who want to help can keep up to date, and make suggestions, And we can say hullo to Jess.

Subject: RE: MY DAUGHTER NEEDS HELP
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 08:06 PM

So please let this thread drift away off the page, now the new one is posted. Cindy asked me to do it, because things are quite busy for her right now. Some good things, some not so good.