BS: Responses To Racism

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 01:47 AM

Hilda, you are a power. I'd be proud to watch your and Azizi's backs.

Incidentally, one of the problems inherent in addressing racist posts is that not everyone sees them before they are deleted. Life being what it is, the targets may see the nasties while other posters may never. Maybe they ought to be kept until people have a chance to react.
One more thing occurs to me: At times I - and I'm sure that I'm not the only one - have gone directly to PM Joe Offer to delete the obscenity. He deleted it swiftly - but not before more Mudcatters had seen it and responded in vehement outrage.

I, on the other hand, am not on record as having responded - because I did the "right" thing. I don't know- I don't have any answers.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 02:14 AM

There's a long history of some of us responding to racist language, in this case the prominent display of an old song entitled, "Run, N*****, Run in this old thread. I hated that newbies might see that title when first coming to the Mudcat and I still would advocate for a thread title change.

We have had a few Native American members, too, though we lost one to illness, Walking Eagle, almost two years ago. I'd love to see more diversity of membership.

Also, what Ebbie said, Azizi, hilda and freda...I'd be honoured and proud to stand with you.

luvyakat

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 03:23 AM

When I see an offensive comment that is followed by multiple posters talking around that post, I interpret that to me that this doesn't matter to you as much as it matters to the person who belong to the targeted group.

Then perhaps it is your interpretation that is wrong? For are there not also other targeted groups that you do not belong to who could make the same interpretation when you do not take issue with these offensive posts? You appear to see racism only as a black issue?

I would suggest that much of your interpretation here is wrong and that great care is needed if what I take to be your good intentions are not to make matters worse.

For the way that you started an entire thread that told people what to avoid so that they did not offend you and your racial grouping could be considered to be a racist one. It may not have been hateful thread but in my view it was equally racist one and would have been viewed as such if for example it had been to the effect of what steps your racial grouping could avoid offending mine.

Perhaps it would be better if you limited your reaction here to what may offend you as an individual as most others generally tend to do. If everyone saw insult to their racial grouping, nation, religion etc and reacted on behalf of them in this way - any discussion here would prove to be impossible.

Azizi your racial grouping may matter a great deal to you and I can respect that. But is the thought offensive to you - that I don't give a fig what colour or creed you or any other poster on our forum is and will treat what you say on its merits.

To me this approach is showing tolerance which is to be encouraged - is this what you would consider to be racist?

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: hilda fish
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 04:54 AM

Teachers and other 'educated' people used to say they taught each child as a person - that they did not see colour. They didn't recognise that they were making children who were 'other' even more invisible. Tolerance is not about 'not seeing' or 'not giving a fig' about colour or creed (which by the way is another form of denial of racism) but about recognising, respecting, and NOT DIMINISHING each person for what they are or who they are. In fact recognising diversity and embracing it and FIGHTING the racism that undermines this tolerance (well maybe not the last part...the fighting part is truly an individual choice). You are perhaps saying to Azizi - "look you don't belong to a specific group of people who, provably and observably, have been shockingly treated through racism - you are an individual just like me and I don't go around representing anyone but myself and I (and all my friends) don't go around getting offended at perceived slights, so get over yourself, you should be doing the same thing - being more like me?" Reaction to racism from a person who is within the group that experiences racism is never about individual offense as much as you may want it to be, and black people have no choice when it's in their face - it is about diminishing a race and however it is seen in this world one thing is a fact - black people experience more racism and have over history than any other race on earth simply because of something they had no control over - their race. The American black people are imprisoned more than their white brothers and sisters, suffer unemployment, higher infant mortality rates, lower education rates, and death, because of racism - its affects on the social and economic system in which we live. You could probably point out the Gitane in Spain, or the Turks in Germany, and you'd be right - it's still all about racism not individual sensitivity. So here you go, Azizi - I'm on your back sister girl! Don't ever make the bloody racist thing some black persons individual problem and some black persons (I should have an apostrophe there) oversensitivity. "Perhaps it would be better if you limited your reaction here to what may offend you as an individual as most others generally tend to do. If everyone saw insult to their racial grouping, nation, religion etc and reacted on behalf of them in this way - any discussion here would prove to be impossible" is not the road to reasonableness so much as yet another racial slur on a good woman who is trying to communicate and make sense of stuff that really hurts. It's also patronising which I guess, really, is also part of racism but it can also be part of a lot of other things including straight out rudeness. See, I get so wild and mouthy ....................................................................

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 05:55 AM

Azizi I am really glad you are here. Not because of what colour you are but because of your knowledge. There have been anti British threads, Anti Irish threads and plenty of threads by the Anti Jewish ( and everybody else for that matter ) BNP.
I don't remember you in those threads but I wasn't offended by your abscence.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 06:11 AM

Tolerance is not about 'not seeing' or 'not giving a fig' about colour or creed (which by the way is another form of denial of racism) but about recognising, respecting, and NOT DIMINISHING each person for what they are or who they are.

No - 'not giving a fig' about anyone's colour or creed and dealing with what they say on its merits another not a form of denial of racism. That is still all too apparent for anyone to attempt to deny in any form. It is a realistic approach and the only way for us all to deal fairly with everyone else.

As for such an approach DIMINISHING each person for what they are or who they are - it is exactly the opposite. It is not limiting our approach to one of continuing to judge each other based only upon on one's racial grouping. Which remains only a result of an accident of birth.

I have no problem with you feeling proud or needing to celebrate or defend your racial grouping but not everyone has the same need. However, I suspect that I may be accused of being a racist if I openly were to celebrate mine in the same way?

You are perhaps saying to Azizi - "look you don't belong to a specific group of people who, provably and observably, have been shockingly treated through racism - you are an individual just like me and I don't go around representing anyone but myself and I (and all my friends) don't go around getting offended at perceived slights, so get over yourself, you should be doing the same thing - being more like me?"

I am saying to Azizi exactly what I said to her. Perhaps it is you who is expecting everyone to be and think more like you and diminishing them by not allowing them to treat others as they think best?

If someone offends other individuals by what they post here - I do not have a handy 'ism' to accuse them of and have to deal with them about this offence on a personal level. I could start a thread called 'Responses to posters who may have offended me in some way' but you may accept that such a title would not attract as many posters as the title of this thread will? And my title would have been unlikely to have received a sympathetic response form you or any response?   

In that case would I have been justified in expressing something like the following?

When I see an offensive comment that is followed by multiple posters talking around that post, I interpret that to me that this doesn't matter to you as much as it matters to the person who belong to the targeted group.

Some of the most blatent racists comments that I have read or heard personally expressed have been from black people - just as some of the most blatent sexist comments I have read or heard are from women. Does that mean that these people must be racists and sexists?

Does it also follow that those who do not write or express such comments can't be not racists and sexists?

I suspect not. What this clear does say is that some people feel free to write or express such things and others do not feel so free to do so..........I am not sure if this current situation is addressing racism and sexism in any positive form or the use of such labels is just keeping a temporary lid on a pressure cooker that will eventually have to explode?

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: number 6
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 08:41 AM

Billie Holliday has a lot of guts to initially go out and sing Strange Fruit ... everyone around her at the time (black and white) strongly advised her not too.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Janie
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 08:56 AM

Racism is different from 'anti-ism.'   Racism is about devaluation, about seeing a whole race or ethnic group of individuals as genetically inferior. As being a little less than fully human. Not about dislike or disagreement.

RACISM IS ABOUT DEHUMANIZATION!

Pedophilia is about dehumanization. Torture is about dehumanization.


I agree, sIx, that confronting racism where ever we encounter it is not necessarily easy. But it is still the right thing to do.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 09:26 AM

Consider it a personal triumph against racism, Azizi. Big Mick usualy tells leavers "not to let the door hit them on the way out."

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Big Mick
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 09:32 AM

Racism has nothing to do with its victim, but they suffer the effects of it. It is about a faulty sense of self on the part of the racist. It is about seeking validation by making others out to be less than you. In other words, making oneself feel good or superior, by making others feel bad or inferior. Within societal racism, it is about making someone a "them" in order that "us" can take unfair advantage, usually economic. It is not about the color of skin. African descended peoples do not have sole claim on this one. That is just in the US. Ask the Irish Catholic, both in the States and Ireland. I often chuckle when I am informed by some well intentioned Irish American that the reason some black people have Irish surnames is because they came from a plantation that was owned by an Irishman. No, dear one, it is because they were both the underclass and often lived together and had children together.

Individual racism is about poor self worth. Societal racism is about economics. It allows the capitalist to take advantage of the underclass' labor for the benefit of his/her profit margin. If African descended slave had never come to this country, it would be some other group of "they".

My individual response to racism is to point out that it is the sign of an ignorant person and a lack of intellect. Gets me in a bind once in a while, most especially when I point this out in a room full of racists, but that is what makes life fun to live **chuckle**.

Just sitting here thinking about this, and thinking about how rich my life experience is due to being exposed to and having friends from so many cultural backgrounds, I can't help but pity these ignorant souls for their racist ignorance. But the pity is tempered, indeed overcome, by my outrage at the treatment afforded to folks whose only guilt is the amount of melanin in their skin, or their religion, or their country of origin. When I think of four little girls singing hymns in a church, or the little Catholic schoolgirls walking to school through a torrent of verbal filth and garbage being thrown at them, I know that benign action is not the answer. Our response to racism must be intellectual, but also visceral. It must be to speak out, and if necessary, to strike out against it. No child should ever face this, because of what, by the grace of God, they were born to be.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: GUEST,guest, 9:26 am
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 09:38 AM

I thought I could flush out you and your eloquence on that subject!
Can't say it better myself. Just try to live it, Motor City style!

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: number 6
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 09:48 AM

Of course we must make a stand Janie, I will not deny that ... but as i said it isn't easy and one must lay oneself way out on the line in doing so.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Big Mick
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 11:17 AM

You know me pretty well. But thanks for jogging me on this one. You have my mind working overtime.

I am sitting here thinking about my daughter's basketball team. All of them are white, middle class girls. Great kids, and fortunate to live as part of the first generation for whom color seems not to have consequence except as a simple genetic difference. We were having a lunch celebration, with a ton of 14 year old girl chatter and giggling after they played very well in a game. The area of South Jersey (Southern part of the State of New Jersey for those from overseas) has a large population of Puerto Ricans, with some Mexican, some Guatamalen, some Peruvian, etc. The young gentleman busing the tables was Hispanic, and was speaking Spanish with his co-workers. So when I needed something, I spoke to him in Spanish. For those who have seen me, you would understand that usually this causes a reaction. I hardly look like someone would speak Latin American Spanish with little or no Yanqui accent. In speaking to him, I asked "Es usted de Puerto Rico?" He indicated that no he was from Guatamala. After he left, one of the girls asked me what the difference was between folks who speak Spanish. She figured they were all roughly the same in a cultural sense. This led to a wonderful discussion of the various Hispanic cultures. We spoke of the Inca and Aztec influences on various folks. We spoke of the differences in food and food preparation. We spoke of idiomatic differences in the language. Then one of the girls, and Italian descended young lady, said; "Mr. Lane, it is no difference between them than there is between and Irish person and an Italian person, right? Same language, but different cultures, right?" I pointed out to her that it even goes further. Between her and him, the language and culture was different, but the desire to live in peace and the desire to get ahead were all the same. I told her of my Grandmother telling me to find what we have in common with each other, and celebrate the differences.

A good day in the diner for the girls, the wait staff, and for me.

That is how we fight racism, sexism, ageism, and any other -ism out there. Teach, and more importantly, teach to speak out against the evil that pits one child against another.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 12:49 PM

"they're the ones who have the keys to the mop cupboard."

And the ones who are more than likely to leave a turd on the floor than mop it up even....

Seems to be you're better off booting out people who crap on the floor....

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 12:53 PM

I think you're right.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Janie
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 01:04 PM

Another thing about racism, is that few, if any people consider themselves to be racist. In fact, most people will emphatically deny they are racist.

"I'm not racist, but this is a funny joke."

"I'm not prejudiced. I just don't think it is right for the races to mix."

My own goal when confronting racist behaviors is to decrease the extent to which racism is operationalized in the world. Social ostrasizm can be very effective in changing behaviors if not beliefs. Only when enough of us who say we abhor racism also act like we abhor racist behaviors will some of these "unconscious" racists, as well as conscious racists begin to modify their behaviors. And ultimately, it is behaviors/actions that matter in the world.

I also think one's message is more effective if it comes from the place of 'love the sinner but hate the sin.'

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 01:59 PM

I took a stand against racism. I could correct a problem that was years old and I did; I did it in a former slave state, too. I was told not to. (I won't go into it here; Azizi knows the story.)

It cost me my job.

I don't care. What I did was right, not convenient.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 02:04 PM

I asked earlier, and have not been asnwered, would it be helpful to use this symbol to indicate we saw and disapproved of a racist post:

:~ (

It shows the reaction, but gives someone using racism as a trolling attempt very little to get gratification from.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: gnu
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 02:10 PM

Very well said, Mick. Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Amos
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 02:15 PM

Teach, and more importantly, teach to speak out against the evil that pits one child against another.


A single sentence as close to perfection as any I have read.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Grab
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 02:23 PM

after a point we get tired of the shit. We get tired of explaining our selves, our languaging, our music, etc etc etc. It is "hard work" living in a world that is generally hostile to you & your people. Sometimes we just want to get away from it all, relax, and forget about it ["it" being "racism"] As I put it in that deleted thread, when African Americans want to let our hair down, we don't want to have to answer any questions about why we use grease it our hair.

Is explaining to people from other cultures *really* shit?

I grew up in a small town in Lancashire (UK). When I was growing up, I knew precisely one black family, who were African immigrants. So what are the chance of me knowing about black American language, culture and music? But that doesn't make me hostile to you, or to your culture - it just makes me someone who doesn't know it. How do *you* know about the English? :-)

Now the music is do-able - anyone can go and buy CDs. You can even read up on the various people involved and find who influenced them. History-wise, anyone can dig into that with the best of them. But what it's impossible to get is the culture, which is the detail of how people live and behave, and all the unwritten rules around it. And the only way to get that is to explain to people from different cultures why you do stuff when they ask, bcos it's only when they ask that you find out they do it differently, and both of you learn something. That's why Bill Bryson is so popular in Britain - he's dissecting British strangeness *and* showing us how a typical (white, educated, middle-class, male) American mind works in the same moment.

Even as far as your posts go, you're making assumptions too. "People of colour" elsewhere in the world will almost certainly have had similar experiences from racists as you, but the chance of them having the same cultural experience as you is low. So I guess you're looking at comparing experiences and opinions with them to see what's the same and what's different, yes?

What I'm trying to get at is that colour-blindness doesn't mean ignoring the facts that we have different backgrounds and a different colour skin - it just means that each of us has an equally valid background and experience, even though they're different. Asking someone else about their background and experience, or even commenting that it doesn't seem to make sense to you, isn't hostility. Now not *caring* that someone has a different background, or not considering that their different background would make them see something differently - that's a different matter...

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Janie
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 02:45 PM

I have it on good authority that the poster of the racist joke does not consider himself racist and does not appreciate me calling him one.

Oh Well.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Janie
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 02:59 PM

FWIW, I labelled his thread as mean and racist, and cancelled some music plans because I don't choose to make music with people who actively promote racism.

It is not for me to say that a person is a racist. It is my right and responsibility to label behavior as racist. (And all of us have probably behaved in a racist fashion at some point-either by commission or by omission.)

But denial is not a river in Africa.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 03:01 PM

Individual Whites may or may not have had the experience of being discriminated against (Using 'discriminate' in the sense of unequal treatment). That may be true even when the 'white' person is a distinct minority in a country or a town or a household. The pale culture has been very successful in blindly and blandly believing in their own superiority and teaching others to buy into that concept.

In a Georgia restaurant years ago I experienced just a tiny amount of it. I sat at the counter; when I first walked in I didn't notice that the waitress and every one of the customers was black.

The young woman behind the counter took care of everyone before me, including a few who sat down after me.

I kept my face and demeanor unruffled (in fact, I was unruffled. I felt that she was doing an excellent job of making her point.) Eventually she came to me and took my order and served me. At that point, everyone started chatting with each other- they had gone quiet before.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 03:24 PM

I wouldn't go so far as to call a waitress' decision to serve a white person last, "reverse racism", so lets call it humbugging.

Hummbugging is very common in the DC area.

I may just be a common mid western hick but my Ma used to say "Even a dog knows if they've been kicked on purpose or by accident".

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 03:31 PM

Another thing about racism, is that few, if any people consider themselves to be racist. In fact, most people will emphatically deny they are racist.

That is the problem as to some extent all of us will be racist. The casual use of the label just means that the problem largely remains to be addressed. Many folk who may make a valuable contribution to this discussion will not do so for fear of being labelled a racist.

The idea that racists have horns and those who we come into contact with will always have racist additudes that will always be immediately clear to us - is just too simplistic.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: GUEST,foog
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 03:39 PM

Well, I hate, despise, fear and distrust Arabs as a group. I even distrust the girl with the chador that serves me at the convenience store. I'm not proud of this racism but it is very hard to shake. Any suggestions? And why should I give it up? Maybe I'll just wait until they give women full freedom and eq.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: GUEST,foog
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 03:40 PM

equal treatment. Durn, this sliced up finger is not typing very well.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 03:43 PM

DOWN WITH HUMBUGGERY !

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Janie
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 03:52 PM

Self awareness is an excellent place from which to start shaking all kinds of things off.

With self-awareness, we can make conscious choices about our behaviors.

Good on you, Froog.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 03:53 PM

"Well, I hate, despise, fear and distrust Arabs as a group. Any suggestions?"

Ya... get to know 2 or 3.... you'll discover they're not very different from you at all....

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Janie
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 03:57 PM

Clinton--whadda ya' gotta be so practical:>)

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 03:58 PM

Clinton, my racism is like most others. I don't fear the individuals I know personally, who are Arabs. It's the rest of the strangers I fear. Everyone I don't know personally is frightening. Nothing rational about racism. They could all be strapped to twenty sticks of dynamite, as far as I can tell.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 04:28 PM

"They could all be strapped to twenty sticks of dynamite"

Like white people are any different there Guest....

Or brown ones... or yellow ones... even the blue ones!

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: number 6
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 04:31 PM

I wouldn't even bother posting to this nut (GUEST).

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Tinker
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 04:59 PM

I missed the thread. I missed the post. I'm not African American, but my husband is and my children will very emphatically tell you they are bi-racial, not one or the other, proud of both. I'm very high on the list of Mudcatter's who ignore online vile posts. Like racism they come in all different colors. Yes, I take a stand on a face to face. From either side.   Respoding here has always been like asking for a sucker punch.

Yes, I've responded to Mudcatters in person who have said thougtless or down right hurtful things. And for those who have come to my house I have flat out asked if it will be a problem before they step in the door. And yes, I would ask that question regardless of the color of the guest. We all deal in different ways. Perhaps even on different days.

Azzi, don't judge the crowd based on the rude clowns. I'll try to find time to PM soon.

Tinker

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Cluin
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 05:10 PM

I knew an Italian girl who didn't like my blue eyes. She said blue-eyed people all looked crazy to her.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Cluin
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 05:11 PM

Maybe she was right.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 05:16 PM

"they are bi-racial"

There is only one race of upright walking-tool using homonid on this planet... it's Homo-sapien... and MOST of the people in this thread qualify....

The jury is still out regarding blue-eyed people....

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 07:21 PM

I have pondered on this one for some time.

If I had joined a blues forum - or indeed this one - been a generally accepted contributor and found out/established/assumed/suspected at some point that the rest of the contributors were black mainly African American blues enthusiasts:

Would I feel that I could or should continue to post as I had been?

Would I feel that I could not or should not continue without making it clear that my racial grouping was?

I think the honest answer would be that I probably would not make a point of revealing this but that I would not have concealed it either.

And if I ever did decide to make it clear to the rest of the contributors what my racial grouping was - it would not have been because I was either proud or ashamed of it. Or that the thought of not doing so may have felt dishonest or given the impression that I may have been being dishonest.

It would have been because - and probably would have been revealed in this way - that my background and perspective about how I became to shared their enthusiasm for the music - would be of some interest or value.

As indeed in the way that I have found Azizi's background and perspective for her interest in this music to be intersting and of value. But perhaps both I and perhaps Azizi can give such things too much thought sometimes?

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Grab
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 07:34 PM

Clinton, I know I'm not - I'm Pan Decurrans, the singing ape...

(with apologies to Terry Pratchett for nicking his idea)

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 08:14 PM

Ahhhhh, if my memory serves me correctly this coming April 4th (?) will be the 46th anniversary of the Greensboro sit in at a Woolworth's lunch counter by 4 Greensboro College, A & T students...

When we discuss racism it is important to reflect on the stuggles and the victories of those who have laid it on the line...

Speaking of laying on the line, again back to Greensboro, I believe it was 1979 when the Klan shot and killed several white folks who were participating in an anti-Klan ralley... I don't think anyone was ever charged...

Racism, winessed by the Grensboro Massacure, isn't a black problem, not a white problem but a human problem... As are all the "ism's" that have been created to keep un-empowered folks at each others throats while Boss Hog makes off with the gold...

It's up to each of us to call it down every time we see it...

I agree with Ebbie on this one... Seems that I'm always late to the skirmishes because I just don't have as much time as I once had for Mudcat... Yeah, when I've had my opportunities I have stepped up but I sho nuff would like to register one "punch on the mouth" to whomever started this last one...

Yeah, sometimes the easiest thing to do is to delete and in the case of mindless foul language it's probably the best thing to do but I'd request that should another poster come up with some racist comment that, hey Joe, you'd allow evryone an opportunity to let this individual know that he ot she has some seriously screwed up values... Like Freda's pal did that night in the pub...

You might be letting folks off too easy???

Hey, I've said some real controversal things here in the Catbox and didn't mind for one minute defending my positions... No one stepped in and said "Bobert's taking a real beating here so let's just pull the plug..."

No, make these creeps take the weight... Too easy to just let them out by pulling the plug...

Grrrrrr...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 08:33 PM

If it's Terry -Prat-chett, you can have it...

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: GUEST,oofg
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 09:10 PM

6, you can ride the double decker next to a sweating raghead (oops, I meant Arab gentleman) with a heavy coat on. Not me

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 09:13 PM

Right again, Clinton. I see nothing but homo sapiens around here, with the exception of Chongo Chimp. You want to talk about racism, get him going on chimps vs gorillas sometime...

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 09:39 PM

I haven't yet read the entire thread but I think you can't just "ignore the trolls" when things are seriouslly and/or inflammatory. Sometimes there are innocent mistakes or phrases that we don't relate to racism etc. and we all need to cut some slack in those situations...but the blatant situations have to be spoken out against so people are on record....

And Mick..about the plantation thing..I don't know but I suspect there were not too many plantation owners who were Irish...but I think that unfortunately there were a number of overseers who were and there were serious abuses there that could account for the names..I am not talking about voluntary situations...something in our heritage not to be proud of.... mg

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Peace
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 09:41 PM

Excellent thread, Azizi. As always. You have given the only response there is to give to racists. You are here, and you ain't gonna let them turn you 'round. I am happy you chose to stay because you are a good person, good friend and very intelligent individual. Always count on your posts for knowledge and insight--and the odd bit of humour now and then. NB: I am ignoring the post by GUEST oofg. See if THAT works.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: GUEST,oofg
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 10:33 PM

Hey, I'm admiting my irrational racism and laying it bare for all to witness. So far I see no practical suggestions for relieving myself of fear of Arabs except "get to know one or two." I already know a bunch. I'm not afraid of those Arabs, just the ones I don't know.

All you perfect "holier than thou" non-racist individuals should tell me why you don't fear strange Arab men and women on buses, trains, airplanes, and in convenience stores. So, I guess no one else admits to racism regarding the Arabic people. Oh well. I'll just be the only racist individual on Mudcat. I can live with it.

"Confronting racism" is an empty phrase on this subject as far as I'm concerned.
I should know better than to come back here.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Peace
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 11:02 PM

Cat Stevens had the answer for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 11:03 PM

It's not racism, Guest. It's the world we live in today.

Everyone is so fearful of offending someone there is just complete denial that fear is even there.