'Foreign' Folk Music

Subject: 'Foreign' Folk Music
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 23 Jun 02 - 09:51 AM

Greg Stephen's thread with clues about songs that have a geographic location got me thinking. I was suprised to see that he had a clue about Georgia Tom, him(Greg that is) being English. You might think that us folks over here in Amurica would know all about Georgia Tom, and Thomas A. Dorsey(same person, different strokes.) After all, Thomas A. Dorsey is acclaimed as the Father of Gospel. Will all the millions of dollars being made off of gospel music these days, you'd think that there'd be more awareness of all that Dorsey did. Other than people knowing that he wrote Precious Lord, Take my Hand, most people don't know much about him, and even fewer have ever heard a recording of him. In order to get a recording of Georgia Tom/Thomas A. Dorsey, I had to pick one up on the Document label, produced in Austria. One of the best collections of black gospel I have came from Germany. One of the best collections of American folk music, American Roots, was produced in the Netherlands. I'ts much the same with jazz. Many of the great old jazz albums are not available in this country, but are readily available in Japan. In rock, Jimmie Hendrix had to go to England to be appreciated. I guess this just proves the statement about prophets not being recognized in their home town (or country.)

What I'm wondering is whether this whole phenomenon works in the other direction. Do you Irish lads hve to order CDs of traditional Irish folk music through an American country? What about you British folks? Or is it just America what doesn't appreciate their own?

Just wondering...

Jerry

Subject: RE: 'Foreign' Folk Music
From: greg stephens
Date: 23 Jun 02 - 10:26 AM

Cuts both ways, Jerry. English folksong collectors used to comb the backwoods of America collecting the old songs that had been forgotten back in England!

Subject: RE: 'Foreign' Folk Music
From: greg stephens
Date: 23 Jun 02 - 10:34 AM

By a pleasing coincidence I just went to look in the current "Jenny Jenkins" thread and there are references to Cecil Sharp's collecting in the Southern Appalachians for English folksongs.

Subject: RE: 'Foreign' Folk Music
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 23 Jun 02 - 12:42 PM

I always say, if you want to find a station on the radio that plays folk music, keep turning the dial until you hear an Irish band. :-)

Jerry

Subject: RE: 'Foreign' Folk Music
From: sian, west wales
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 05:13 AM

I can think of a lot of examples where ex-patriot communities have kept something alive which had died out 'back home', but that isn't really what you're looking for, Jerry. A different example is the triple-harp which (I think?) originated in Italy but died out there - yet it's still played in Wales. (perhaps elsewhere?) But that was just attrition of something which had been quite wide spread at one time.

Can't think of any examples where a completely separate community took to a 'foreign' practice so much that they became a major force in conservation ...

sian

Subject: RE: 'Foreign' Folk Music
From: Mr Happy
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 05:20 AM

another example; the 'irish' bouzouki- originally greek, i think

Subject: RE: 'Foreign' Folk Music
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 05:43 AM

Sian: The West Indies have taken over, and become the major force in cricket!

Subject: RE: 'Foreign' Folk Music
From: greg stephens
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 07:25 AM

I do believe Johnny Foreigner seems to be a bit better at the old soccer nowadays, too.

Subject: RE: 'Foreign' Folk Music
From: Sam Pirt
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 07:07 AM

Hi All

I think this is a great thread because what it has shown is how folkmusic many years ago blended and crossed cultures just as it does now. once more it shows that if it had not done this songs would have been lost. If some of these songs were not sung by people from different countrys they would have cesed to exist.

It must also be said that although songs start in one country there is no reason why they cannot be sung in another and enter that countrys tradition. That is folkmusic, this has reached a new level with the invention of Airoplanes, CD's, MP3's, mudcat etc.. It is far easier to get tunes and songs from other countrys, and it is this apporoach that I openly take towards my music. I don't play Irish, I don't play English, I don't play scandinavian, I don't play Spanish but I do play Good tunes from anywhere. If I think it is a good tune I will play it. The result, a new folkmusic.

Cheers, Sam

Subject: RE: 'Foreign' Folk Music
From: Declan
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 07:49 AM

Well said Sam.

There have been a lot of discussions around here lately about the sources of songs and their origins, and these are interesting from a historical or an acedemic viewpoint, but when it comes down to choosing what to sing or play I'm with you, labels are meaningless, if you like it - play it.

Subject: RE: 'Foreign' Folk Music
From: mooman
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 07:57 AM

I totally agree Sam...a very good point!

Best regards,

Richard

Subject: RE: 'Foreign' Folk Music
From: sian, west wales
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 08:52 AM

Nigel, you may have a point there.

(oh and following along on international cricket ... wales beat england: yea!)

sian

who understands zip-all about cricket but whose god-daughter just got chosen for a team so I'd better learn.

Subject: RE: 'Foreign' Folk Music
From: greg stephens
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 11:10 AM

Mr Happy's "bazouki coming from Greece to Ireland" example can be extended further: it was a refretted modification of the Turkish saz... some Greek had the bright idea of putting semi-tone frets on it, instead of the original oriental placings, not all that long ago. Or so I have been reliably (??) told.

Subject: RE: 'Foreign' Folk Music
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 11:49 AM

I hesitate to mention Michael Flattley, but the whole thing round Riverdance did have the effect of pushing a lot of people both in Ireland and elsewhere into recognising that Irish dance and Irish music are in fact very impressive and worth getting into. (And once they were into it to recognize that the Michael Flattley showbiz approach was deeply flawed.)

Subject: RE: 'Foreign' Folk Music
From: greg stephens
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 11:55 AM

We're still waiting for an American messiah to do the same for morris dancing. That will be a cultural awakening indeed.

Subject: RE: 'Foreign' Folk Music
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 12:36 PM

The treasured hammered dulcimer is another example of an instrument that has created it's whole language in the United States, but has a long history on other continents. There's a scene in the movie Shirley Valentine when there is a wedding parade in a small village in Greece, and a musician is walking along playing a hammered dulcimer supported by a leather strap around his neck. Of course, it's not called a hammered dulcimer in other countries... I had a record of someone playing the instrument, but have long since forgotten what it was called (and lost the record in one of my moves.) When I listen to Scandinavian fiddle music, every once in awhile an "American" tune catches my ear. I used to have a Portugese guitar which sounded just fine playing southern mountain fiddle and mandolin tunes.

Jerry

Subject: RE: 'Foreign' Folk Music
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 12:50 PM

that 'hammered dulcimer' worn around the neck is usually a cimbalom, known throughout eastern Europe and also in a concert size like a small piano, played seated, in the middle East & India it is called a santur (santoor) in China it is called a Chin (Qin) or Yang Chin (Yangqin)

Subject: RE: 'Foreign' Folk Music
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 01:10 PM

Hah! I'm sitting here, listening to a (cimbalom GOD) Kalman Balogh mp3, and the conversation has turned to cimbaloms. Spoooooooooky.

Interesting thread.

Oh, by the way, greg, while you're right about the bozouki/saz connection, I have some Greek-produced cds of Turkish and Balkan folk music, and in the liner notes, it's made clear that pretty much EVERY instrument used between India and Spain was invented by the Greeks. (Turns out the Greeks rightfully own most of that land, too, heh)

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: 'Foreign' Folk Music
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 02:46 PM

Cimbalom. Thanks,Bill. That's it. Lepus: I haven't come across any Cimbalom recordings recently... glad to hear that they're still producing them.

Jerry

Subject: RE: 'Foreign' Folk Music
From: Hrothgar
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 04:21 AM

sian, (pedant alert!) if they are ex-patriots, it would be mildly surprising if they were trying to keep their traditions! Maybe they are expatriates.

:-)

Nigel, tell me more about the West Indies being THE major force in world cricket.

:-)))

Hrothgar in AUSTRALIA