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BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: catspaw49 Date: 14 Nov 07 - 07:51 PM Yep..... I use the Dorkus Super Roller 5000, the only way to "go." So when I encounter a bridge only 25 feet above the water and a river 18 feet deep, I can let fly and stop the reel so as to keep the tip out of that muddy bottom. AND......The Auto-Retrieve feature makes shaking it a breeze! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Emma B Date: 14 Nov 07 - 08:03 PM Hmmm the real problem (I found out this "summer") is a river some 4 foot higher than the bridge! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 14 Nov 07 - 08:25 PM Can't we all just get a long little doggy? Daschunds apart, I don't mind any position! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 14 Nov 07 - 08:27 PM BTW, Spaw, were you referring to the "Folk singers with longest career" thread? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Tweed Date: 14 Nov 07 - 08:34 PM Where's khandu when you need him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 14 Nov 07 - 08:37 PM You mean we khantdu without him? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Rapparee Date: 14 Nov 07 - 08:45 PM Armed rebellion and overthrow of the monarchy was the only answer, Tweed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Amos Date: 14 Nov 07 - 08:50 PM You guys should differentiate between getting a long, little, doggy, like Little Hawk, and gittin' along, little dogie, as in round up. I think we should try the experiment of applying RoundUp to Little Hawk's long doggy just to see what expires. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Emma B Date: 14 Nov 07 - 08:55 PM is that Round up ? Sounds a little painful........ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Rapparee Date: 14 Nov 07 - 08:59 PM Out here in The REAL West, we have dachshund roundups both Spring and Fall. All the neighbors get together and help each other with the ropin', brandin', inoculatin', and cuttin'. Then them long little doggies are sent along with the little dogies to where ever long little doggies and little dogies are sent along to. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Bobert Date: 14 Nov 07 - 09:10 PM Ahhhhhh, sorry to be late to the party... Did I miss anything??? Nevernmind that, I always miss somethin'... Missin' stuff is like freedom 'cause then you ain't respnsible for keepin' track of it... Hey, Dave's Wife, ahhhhhh, don't listen to me when I suggest that you do this 'er that... Jus' get you into trouble... I got a PHD on trouble here in Mudville... With the exception of about handfull of folks I have been in trouble with everyone else at least once... That's a lot of folks that I have rubbed wrong, then had to go back and do the "dance of the dieing duck" (D of the DD, for short)... I mean, I've had to do the D of the DD so othen here that Fred Astaire would be proud... Now as fir studies??? Hmmmmmm??? I weren't much good at studyin' so I purdy much keep away from them... I didn't know I was fonna be called on 'er I would have studied more, if only I knew what I was studin' for.... Excuse the prepositon at the end of the sentence, if it was a sentence 'cause I know that academics ain't much ito ending 'em with preps.... Lastly, what the heck do I know about anthropologym anyway??? Nuthin', that's what... I weren't required back in my college days... Biology was and it sucked... Biology was used to flunk kids out... Weed out the real dummies... I got a D... Barely... That's my story... Sorry I ain't much help... There's a lot more brainier (is that a word???)folks scratching 'round here in the Catbox than me... All I did was say that I liked the way you wrote, Dave's Wife, but I also said I didn't have a clue what you were talkin' about... That much still stands... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Azizi Date: 14 Nov 07 - 09:15 PM This thread is a study in itself: it's almost Mudcat in a microcosm... intellectual curiosity; insider resistance to inquiry out of the "norm"; rampant scatalogical rowdiness... ~ Becky in Tucson I agree with what Becky said. I would also include witty plays on words {for instance, Foolestroupe's post "You mean we khantdu without him?"}. I like that kind of wit. However, I'm wondering why it is that those who are opposed to an analytical discussion of the ways that Mudcat posters in general interact on the public forum wouldn't just disregard this thread and leave it to those who were/are serious about such a discussion. I'm curious why folks would do this. Regardless of the reasons why posters decided to railroad this subject, to paraphrase Becky's comment, the way this thread has developed shows how some folks communicate when they don't like what some other folks want to talk about. I think that's too bad {with "bad" here meaning "not good"}. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: wysiwyg Date: 14 Nov 07 - 09:22 PM Well, I love how a few people feel they must judge WHY anyone posted negatively about the idea of a study, but let's go back to the first post: Let's talk about patterns of behavior here. Who benefits from them, why we do various things, why we say certain things. Let's explore how we interact as a community and how our interactions compare and contrast with other observed online communities. And to this I would respond, "Let's not, for the reasons I've stated-- it just isn't practical." Now, if other people want to go ahead and construct or participate in a quasi-study, go for it, but I just think it's not feasible. So, "let's not." ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Bobert Date: 14 Nov 07 - 09:26 PM Well, Mizzy, the only reason that I responded is 'cause Dave's Wife kinda put me on the spot in her opening post... I din't even know this thread had anything to do with anything I had said anywhere... I thought it was like, ahhhhhh, National Geographic, 'er the Discover channel so I opened it to see what it was about and there was my name right there in print... So I figured that I oughtta do the gentlemanly thing and that was post a disclaimer, which I did... (Don't say stuff like that, Bobert... It's gonna end up in some science journal...) Why??? See, I told you that I don't have a clue... Plus I don't read science journals... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Rapparee Date: 14 Nov 07 - 09:43 PM I think, as I said earlier, Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle applies here. As in any active system, you can study one aspect of it or another (for instance, position OR velocity of a particle) but not both at the same time. You might approximate, but you will never know simply because the thing studied is always in flux. And Bobert, I happen to know that you got a "D" in biology when you should have gotten an "A" because you started flinging parts of dissected earthworms at other members of the class and thereby started a "worm fight." The only reason you got a "D" was because they couldn't prove conclusively it was you that started it. And remember what Winston Churchill said when criticized about ending a sentence with a preposition: "That's the kind of nonsense up with which I will not put." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Amos Date: 14 Nov 07 - 10:29 PM Well, one reason is that the threads are chockablock full of people analyzing why they are doing and what they are doing it with. So in a sense the resistance here is against getting into a self-referential loop, known in some circles as "analysis paralysis". There is a point in self-examination where the abstract polunges into the ridiculous. I am reminded of the old saw: "There once was a fairy named Broom Took a Lesbian up to his room; But they argued all night About who had the right To do what, and with which, and to whom." A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: katlaughing Date: 14 Nov 07 - 10:53 PM Rapaire, we've got a different kinda dogie in Wyomin': ya ever heard the one about the wild poodle herds of Wyomin'? Saw one m'self, I did, one dark and lonely night out on the highway to ShyAnne. Took me complete by surprise. Remind me ta tell it one o'these days; it's jist one more instanz of Wyomin' being ahead and in the runnin' fer finding new species on this here ole ball wax we call home. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Art Thieme Date: 14 Nov 07 - 10:54 PM Azizi, Your "meta" is good as far as it goes. But Will Rogers said it best. "I never meta phor I didn't like!" Art |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Art Thieme Date: 14 Nov 07 - 10:56 PM Kat, Nice that we came together!!! Was it good for you??? Art |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: katlaughing Date: 14 Nov 07 - 11:03 PM Mighty Fine...Art! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: catspaw49 Date: 15 Nov 07 - 12:05 AM Well there ya' go......Just like I said, "Art Thieme, whatever he is," and as you can see, there ain't no tellin' what he is......and damn little seein' for that matter.....Not that you'd want to of course.............ya' know? AND NOW,ZIZ......You said: "......I'm wondering why it is that those who are opposed to an analytical discussion of the ways that Mudcat posters in general interact on the public forum wouldn't just disregard this thread and leave it to those who were/are serious about such a discussion. I'm curious why folks would do this." Okay......Why? Because I can. I make fun of, joke about, ridicule, whatever, damn near everything just for the hell of it. I do this in 3D as well. In 3D you can better show the actual tone and intent and for awhile around here you could do the same. At first everyone misunderstood, then we all got to know each other pretty well and knew the nuances. Except for gnu who never knew. That time though was pretty short as the growth made it next to impossible to communicate the real thing. So at times it seems cliquish with insider jokes but again let me ask.....Why does this affect the other discussion? You say I should disregard the thread.....Why not just disregard me? Many happily do!!!(;<)) "Regardless of the reasons why posters decided to railroad this subject, to paraphrase Becky's comment, the way this thread has developed shows how some folks communicate when they don't like what some other folks want to talk about." Long ago there was an understanding that the Music threads were to be left alone and those of us around then agreed to it. The Bull Shit on the other hand was wide open.......post whatever but don't bitch about it and don't dis The 'Cat which provides the Litter Box. Its BS.....just BS.....period. This is still first a Music Site......the BS is Bull Shit! "I think that's too bad {with "bad" here meaning "not good"}." Sorry you feel that way ....... I don't though ....... We disagree....I still like you and hope you like me. But the joint is what it is. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Janie Date: 15 Nov 07 - 01:19 AM DW, I suggest you recognize that anthropology utilizes sociology and group psychology, but is not the same as either, and that your invitation for group self analysis, however humorously and well-intended, is entirely inappropriate from an anthropological perspective. The anthropologist or sociologist may adopt the role of observer, or of participant-observer. They may query individuals in the culture or community they are studying, and observe whatever self-analysis may occur, but they do not overtly invite self-analysis of the nature or with the specificity you have asked. Deliberate and specific self-analysis by the individual or the group is firmly in the realm of psychology. The observation and study of the process of self-analysis by the group is anthropological and/or sociological. The attempt to discern how the function of behaviors of individuals within the group serves to sustain or disrupt the culture are within the realm of anthropology and/or sociology. But you are more than a participant-observer in the context of this particular group, and you have violated a boundary. A participant-observer participates as a means to observe, and does one's best to struggle with the effects of the dual role, ever mindful that the primary function is the academic function of observation, while trying to account for and acknowledge that the role of participant influences observations and outcomes. There is a lot of skillful resistance occurring in this thread, as Azizi and Bee, in particular, have noticed. I suggest that much of that resistance is normal and expectable response/reaction to DW's unintended boundary violations. My intent is not to be confrontational. But DW, you have strongly implied that you are either participating in academic research, or are providing information and observations to other anthropologists who may use your input in academic research. You have an obligation to tell them that you have communicated with this particular group in a manner that may strongly influence this group's reaction. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Janie Date: 15 Nov 07 - 01:24 AM Or....what 'spaw said. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: John MacKenzie Date: 15 Nov 07 - 04:43 AM A couple of folks reactions have been very interesting, and by that I meant those who have brought in the insider/outsider theory. Now I know there is a conspiracy theory at large that Mudcat is composed of cliques, but I see this as merely paranoia on the part of those who feel excluded. Not that there is anything to be excluded from really, what they have to realise is that in many cases they are coming into an ongoing conversation that's been in progress for many years. It is that, conflict between the easy going members and the control freaks, that is worthy of anthropological analysis surely? Don't forget the conspiracy theorists either ¦¬] Giok |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 15 Nov 07 - 05:05 AM I've always been interested in studying the processes of studying the processes of studying the processes of studying the processes of studying the processes of studying the processes of studying the processes of ... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: catspaw49 Date: 15 Nov 07 - 06:00 AM Somebody help that Fool with the broken processor!!! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Bee Date: 15 Nov 07 - 08:50 AM Janie, why do you suppose Azizi and I, among others, don't think a boundary is being crossed? Azizi's been here a long time, I've been here for a year. Perhaps you think we are not astute enough or educated enough to understand the basic parameters of anthropological analysis? Why do you think it is all right to analyze folk musicians (and many 'Catters are folk musicians) and folk music but not to analyze our own group posting behaviours? Most of us, as self interested amateurs, observe the posting behaviours and interactions of others, and reach our own conclusions, and modify our posting responses as a result. (Examples: I don't post in threads where a particular person posts, because there is a full on clash of beliefs that inevitably would lead to unpleasantness. I look forward to some posters' threads because they are intelligent, amusing, or provocative. Dave's Wife brings a professional's understanding to something we already engage in, more or less automatically, and I am as interested in her thoughts as I am interested in the thoughts of someone who is a professional folk music researcher. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Rapparee Date: 15 Nov 07 - 08:56 AM To address, in small part, the idea of resistance to analysis: By and large, Mudcatters are an educated bunch. I know of several with graduate degrees (some more than one) and several who hold doctorates. Many are polyglottal, all or almost all are well-traveled and well-read. Those without formal academic qualifications compensate with extensive life experiences. It is difficult to get people of this type to hold still for examination if they don't want to -- they know how to wiggle away, a technique perfected by years of practice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: MMario Date: 15 Nov 07 - 09:07 AM and/or have much experience in dissembling |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Rapparee Date: 15 Nov 07 - 09:15 AM I've disassembled all sorts of stuff. I've even been able to put some of it back together sometimes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: wysiwyg Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:01 AM Rap, that's true, but it's also true that some of us just prefer not to have Mudcat become like our real lives, because we come here for a break from all that. Bee, no one has said what you are or are not aware of or capable of. Those of us posting here who are not enthralled by this idea have been here for what I think of as "a long time," and perhaps it seems to you like Azizi has been here "a long time," but to this oldtimer she seems like a recent arrival. Just as I am sure I seem more like a new arrival than an oldtimer, to those who got here before I did. A certain amount of umbrage seems to have been assigned to those of us not enthralled. WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT YOU GET, but it's up to the individual what you choose to see, and how you choose to take it. DW, if you thought Bobert told you to jump off a roof-- would you? I suggest the posts of other professional practitioners at Mudcat as a possible model-- who are often thoughtful about not trying to practice their professions here but who offer, instead of specifics, general principles from their professions. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: John MacKenzie Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:05 AM Posit posit posit Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Amos Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:05 AM On the other hand perhaps we should confess that the REAL reason we post here in the odd loopy way that we do is because of our mothers (for the boys), our fathers (for the girls) or our carburetors (for Spaw). Giok is a special case, motivated by a suppressed appetite for haggis. Janie, now, posts as she does to compensate for peanuts-and-Coke envy instilled by visiting cousins from Georgia at a tender age. Rapaire is acting out his fantasy of having the biggest Dewey Decimal System on the planet. (Dewey? I'll say we do!). Perhaps this will help clear the air. On the other hand it is possible that group self-analysis is, in essence, a projection of single-viewpoint narcissism, and unlikely to gain traction for any given individual, other than the projector; and hence, neither profitable in understanding nor entertaining in insight or humor. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Peace Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:07 AM "if you thought Bobert told you to jump off a roof-- would you? " Well, not a FIFTH time! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: GUEST,Janie Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:09 AM I don't know, Bee. It would be very surprising if every individual in the group reacted identically. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: John MacKenzie Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:10 AM My Name is John MacKenzie, and I am a haggis addict. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Peace Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:12 AM Takes lots of guts to say that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: catspaw49 Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:13 AM A lot more to eat the crap........... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: katlaughing Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:20 AM It is easy enough to find out how long some one has been a member. Go to Quick Links, use the drop down menu and scroll down to "Old Adv. Forum Search" then press GO. Put their name in the user box and follow from there. Considering Mudcat has been around since 1996, I don't consider someone who's been here three years to have been here for a long time; and,just as Susan said, some folks who were here at the beginning, may still think of me as a newcomer. Janie, well said...yer degree is showing, darlin'.:-) Spaw, thanks Peachy Philosopher! DW, have you talked Bee outta Snowball, yet?:-) kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Amos Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:32 AM I have re-read the whole thread, and it is a delightful potpurri of thoughts of all kinds -- direct, indirect, metaphorical, humorous, and rowdy. Thanks to D's W for starting it. A very interesting thread, less for what it says than for what it is. Hmmmm. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: GUEST,Janie Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:34 AM Amos - surely you meant moonpies and an RC pop! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Donuel Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:35 AM Don't taze me there bro |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: wysiwyg Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:36 AM Kat, you... you.... newbie! Nope, jes' don't seem right! :~) ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Donuel Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:49 AM Regarding your fake death story to observe care giver behavior. Another reason you did it is because its sort of like attending your own funeral. What would they say (behind my back) Then you come back and say Ahaa, you said or didn't say X. sort of an ultimate gotcha behavior don't you think. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Bee Date: 15 Nov 07 - 11:37 AM Quote: "Bee, no one has said what you are or are not aware of or capable of. Those of us posting here who are not enthralled by this idea have been here for what I think of as "a long time," and perhaps it seems to you like Azizi has been here "a long time," but to this oldtimer she seems like a recent arrival. Just as I am sure I seem more like a new arrival than an oldtimer, to those who got here before I did. A certain amount of umbrage seems to have been assigned to those of us not enthralled. WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT YOU GET, but it's up to the individual what you choose to see, and how you choose to take it. DW, if you thought Bobert told you to jump off a roof-- would you? I suggest the posts of other professional practitioners at Mudcat as a possible model-- who are often thoughtful about not trying to practice their professions here but who offer, instead of specifics, general principles from their professions." - WYSIWYG First of all, I'm not really liking this line of 'Old Boys and Girls' versus people who've only been here one or two or three years. In fact, I find it a little offensive. If you can't claim to have understood to some degree the inherent culture of a self-chosen forum after a year of posting, then your powers of observation must be severely limited, IMO. Frankly, I'm seeing more 'umbrage' being aimed at those of us who think the OP has an interesting proposal, to the point of some even questioning DW's professional ethics, which I think is a really over the top and unfair response. I have seen some of your 'professional practitioners' here being extremely explicit in their professional pronouncements on specific individual folk musicians and even on specific songs that individuals have written. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: wysiwyg Date: 15 Nov 07 - 11:47 AM No one has said it's a "versus" issue, Bee, and I donpt feel it as one myself; I feel it as a gap, perhaps, but not an adversarial situation. You've also replied to a number of points that had been addressed to someone else. Perhaps you're not feeling terribly objective. BTW, re: the "professionals" part of my post-- what I had in mind were the doctors and lawyers who don't doctor or lawyer here, but have given general info in threads about medical and legal issues, and the social worker/psychotherapist who doesn't treat people here but who has, from time to time, stated general principles. I don;t even know what you're referring to, but I apologize for not staing my point more clearly. Sheeshe! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Bill D Date: 15 Nov 07 - 12:07 PM Obviously, what needs to be done is to apply the Phenomenological "Eidetic Reduction" to this study.... "Method: Bracket all incidental meaning and ask: what are some of the possible invariate aspects of this experience?" "The research process involves reflective inquiry into "concealed" meaning while reconciling universality and particularity by holding them in tension. The researcher asks: What makes this experience uniquely different from other related experiences? In the eidetic reduction one needs to see past or through the particularity of lived experience toward the iconic universal, essence or eidos that lies on the other side of the concreteness of lived meaning. The idea of phenomenological essence or eidos does not refer to some immutable universal or generalization about human nature of human life. This would be committing the fallacy of essentialism." more here! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Amos Date: 15 Nov 07 - 12:18 PM IRRITATION |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: John MacKenzie Date: 15 Nov 07 - 12:20 PM In oysters irritation can lead to pearls, but it doesn't work that way with human beings. Giok |
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Subject: RE: BS: Native Behaviors in Mudcat Society From: Amos Date: 15 Nov 07 - 12:23 PM You just said that to get the 100th post, Giok. Don't pretend! :D A |
