Tech: BBC service removal?

Subject: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 13 Mar 25 - 11:14 AM

Listening to the excellent 'Feedback' programme on Radio 4 the other day, I heard some worrying news, which I cannot see on BBC platforms.

It sounded to me like BBC radio is discontinuing access to all non-UK countries of all their radio services except Radio 4 and World Service? There are some exceptions for UK people travelling/holidaying abroad but all other stations will not be available from Spring this year (ie very soon).

This appears to include the NATIONAL stations for Wales and Scotland as well as all regional UK stations. As a lot of mudcat folk are avid listeners to the musical content of Radio 2, Alba etc, maybe non UK residents are in for a surprise? There is contradictory techspeak about all this & BBC content may be available somehow, but it is not clear to me. Any news, anyone, the BBC appear to be keeping a low profile here- am I totally wrong?

.

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: DaveRo
Date: 13 Mar 25 - 11:57 AM

See here

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 14 Mar 25 - 07:02 AM

well that link is certainly not at all clear to me, but then as a Scottish resident I am not affected, I just thought others might be.

I think most of thre stuff coming out of the BBC music-wise is pretty crap anyway & its 'impartial' politics now increasingly unreliable at best, so this is par for the course.

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: DaveRo
Date: 14 Mar 25 - 09:27 AM

Jim: I've now listened to Feedback. They didn't say anything useful but promised to get someone on the programme to explain. Please let us know when they do; I'm not prepared to sit though the programme on spec.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006slnx/episodes/player

I expect that Sounds (which used to be called Radio iPlayer) will become geographically limited by IP address as the TV iPlayer always has been. The lady in North Carolina who listens to Radio 2 and the guy in Kansas who listens to Radio 6 will have to use a VPN. Nodody in the BBC is going to tell them that, though. Perhaps the BBC will come up with a subscription service.

I expect that the BBC's direct audio streams, used by other streaming boxes and clients, will also be IP-limited - apart from (some) Radio 4 and World Service.

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: Nick Dow
Date: 15 Mar 25 - 12:39 PM

Subscription service I doubt on the grounds that nobody is likely to subscribe. Even less than those who are reluctantly paying their licence fee. I worked for the BBC for 34 years and there is not much I have not seen. This thread is not about how disgusted I am with their behaviour, but this latest ploy will show their devious thinking and is relevant to the OP.
Newspaper reports indicate the following:-

Sweeping changes could be on the horizon for the much-maligned BBC licence fee, with fresh proposals hinting at a merger of the £174 licence fee with regular household bills to ensure collective payment across UK homes.

Council tax in fact! This is the German system I'm told. So there you are. We still won't be given any choice. How many people will have the nerve or the energy to cross the fee off the bill. Will we get our Folk music progs back? What do you think? Just a sustained campaign of 'look how wonderful we are' adverts followed by the usual bias and arrogance.

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 15 Mar 25 - 01:55 PM

This goes beyond the music though.... whatever your view of the 'four nations' nature of the United Kingdom this deliberate action is removing access to the NATIONAL radio stations of Wales and Scotland to anyone resident outside the UK as well as UK regional stations!

   What remains of this music in Scotland like the longlived 'Saturday night 'Take The Floor' programme will be seriously missed by many thousands of dewy-eyed Scottish folk living in Canada, Australia etc.

But such an act of vandalism is all too typical of BBC contempt for anything non-English- music, literature or politics. Radio 4 will cover all aspects of culture, of course, as viewed from London.

what a bunch of cultural vandals they are

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: Nick Dow
Date: 15 Mar 25 - 08:33 PM

The sad thing is it was not always that way. The BBC were willing to give air time to anything that would make a good programme. One of my documentaries was entered for a Sony award. I very much doubt that I would be given a job in today's BBC. They have their own agenda that seems so far from the public service broadcasting brief that they once adopted. The interview techniques I was taught at Broadcasting house are now abandoned, and aggression and interruption is the new morality.
The news reporting is posed in such a way as to demonstrate their own agenda, so we hear details of the economy prefaced by statements such as 'Despite the strike....Despite Brexit...In the face of union threats... Provoked by far right or far left activists,,,and on it goes.
So what of our Folk Song programmes? Sorry people but in house programming is finished. The new employment rules brought in 8 years ago gave you a choice. Sign on the dotted line as an employee or bugger off. The legion of freelance musicians and enthusiasts were forced to form their own companies, and produce their own shows on their own equipment, or join the payroll and do as they are told and tow the line and dance to the corporate tune. (When did Folkies ever tow the line?) As Jim correctly points out anything outside the BBC control is ignored or axed. The future is uncertain. It's likely that the BBC will slowly slip in the ratings, and the programming will become less and less diverse. No in house dramas will be commissioned and nothing will reach our ears and eyes unless it is privately produced and dances to their tune.
The backlash will see more and more YouTube based podcasts, News services, and opinion videos, with none of the training, professional approach and production values of the past. The result will range from the boring through to the downright dangerous as we have seen. Who is to blame? Those who casually threw away the old tried and tested values of public service broadcasting, and did a runner with a suitcase full of public money. So no change there I hear you cry!

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: GUEST,jim bainbrudge
Date: 17 Mar 25 - 06:31 AM

! BBC R4 feedback progranmme- 8pm last night has still not managed to clarify this situation. No official BBC spokesperson has stepped forward yet, although a request has been made.

What kind of media organisation treats its huge numbers of listeners with such cxontempt?   the BBC, that's who

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: DaveRo
Date: 17 Mar 25 - 09:15 AM

What other media organisation broadcasts a programme on which its listeners are allowed to complain about it?

Huge number of listeners to BBC radio abroad?

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: Nick Dow
Date: 17 Mar 25 - 04:59 PM

Bang on Dave and Jim. The BBC had a tradition of feedback within it's public service brief, however for very many years they have undermined the process. They usually have a comedic figure to read out the complaints and then pay lip service to impartiality having first taken the piss out of the listeners. This has been so obvious that other TV shows have lampooned the programmes on and off for years.
BBC 4 are not able to do the piss take ploy, so they do the next best thing. Nothing! See above.
Now I'm going to tell you about a flaming row I had with a BBC producer in Broadcasting house. He referred within a tutorial to the listeners to my show as no better than pond life! I ripped into him, and he retreated into 'your a specialist audience' defence.
I then went on a mission with with the news team tutors.
At the time Maxwell had just been found dead, and his sons were being dragged in front of an all party commons committee but remained silent. We were asked to produce a headline for a news programme.
Most people came out with something like 'The Maxwell brothers maintain silence despite etc. etc. by way of reply I wrote 'Maxwells forced into silence by all party commons committee.
It went down like a bodily function in church.
And so it goes.....

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 18 Mar 25 - 02:39 PM

When I lived in El Hierro the smallest of the Canary Islands, I thought myself lucky to pick up BBC World Service on radio with a big aerial but times have changed with the internet.

You'd be surprised how many people DO listen to the BBC abroad & to destroy its audience like this is unforgiveable.

Scots abroad DO listen to 'Take the Floor' and the Old Firm game & to think that Radio 4 is a substitute for this is just a demonstration of the English nationalist cabal who run BBC 2025.

ESPECIALLY when the Trump loonies have just closed down the Voice of America station!   Are they all vcrazy?

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: GUEST,Jim Bainbridge
Date: 30 Mar 25 - 03:46 PM

Presenter Andrea Catherwood on tonight's 'Feedback' on BBC Radio 4 is STILL struggling to get a BBC spokesman to explain what on earth is going on with the withdrawal of BBC sound radio outside of UK!

   It was mainly about the consequences of this vandalism to the many BBC listeners in the Irish Republic and even to the peace process.

Now I don't think many Irish listeners would seek out the BBC for traditional music, but the lack of a Northern voice will create a political inbalance. I am sure RTE has no such plans for their Northern radio broadcasts.

   Just to clarify and to make sure mudcat folk outside UK know this- in WEEKS all BBC radio will be quite unavailable to them, apart from Radios 1234 & World Service, and the BBC will not explain why, as they continue to hold their listeners in absolute contempt in their usual manner

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: DaveRo
Date: 31 Mar 25 - 12:09 PM

I found a blog by James Cridland which includes some new information and some informed speculation.
https://james.cridland.net/blog/

A couple of articles in particular:
BBC audio for international users
BBC domestic radio will stay available internationally after all

There are links in those articles which land differently for UK and Rest-of-World browers, in particular https://www.bbc.com/audio. That redirects to https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds for me. If you're outside the UK what does it offer?

There are also articles on BBC Feedback and BBC Local Radio. If youre interested in all this I suggest you subscribe to the RSS feed, as I have just done.

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 31 Mar 25 - 01:48 PM

I fail to believe that the BBC has its listeners' opinions at its heart, I'm afraid.
And if it's not going to happen, why the hell have they omitted to appear on its major listeners' FEEDBACK programme & explained it.

The presenter sounds really cheesed off with her employer's failure to respond after at least FOUR requests.

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: DaveRo
Date: 31 Mar 25 - 02:11 PM

GUEST,jim bainbridge wrote: I fail to believe that the BBC has its listeners' opinions at its heart...

Which listeners? The ones who pay the license fee or the ones that don't?

And if it's not going to happen...

It (limiting BBC Sounds to the UK) is going to happen. But, according to the second linked article, "... you will be able to listen to BBC Radio 2, or to 6 Music, or to BBC Radio Leeds, outside of the UK." (I'm not sure if that includes on-demand/catch-up listening though.)

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 01 Apr 25 - 05:13 AM

thats why the BBC need to EXPLAIN what's going on, but are totally failing to do so.
   Listeners outside UK do not have the option of paying to listen- some would be willing I'm sure.
   BBC TV will be available but the days of 'Hootenanny' with Archie Fisher & the Spinners are long gone

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: Nick Dow
Date: 01 Apr 25 - 01:59 PM

You have heard enough from me ranting on, but very quickly, It may be worth a letter/Email or two to try and get a reply.

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: DaveRo
Date: 03 Apr 25 - 02:30 AM

I got round to listening to the Feedback episode that I think Jim was referring to:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002975q (start @ 15'30")

The arguments in favour of a reciprocal agreement for Ireland, as agreed in the MOA of the Good Friday Agreement are very strong - it does look as if the BBC hadn't thought about that. 'Radio Ulster to be unavailable thoughout Ulster' would be an embarrassing headline!

The RoI Government should be lobbying, if they aren't already.

Another Feedback later today:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0029jk5

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 25 - 04:04 AM

Is this something to do with the cost of royalty payments?

In the days of broadcast radio (listening to pop on radio Luxemburg under the bedcovers in the 60s etc) rights holders had a rough idea of potential listeners.

Does listening over the internet mean BBC licence payers are paying royalties for a global audience when they could pay less just for UK access?

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: Nick Dow
Date: 03 Apr 25 - 04:33 AM

No it's all covered at source by PRS and MCPS.

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 25 - 05:27 AM

So the artist gets the same income for UK only and for availability over the global internet?

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: DaveRo
Date: 03 Apr 25 - 06:37 AM

I think (because the BBC has not said explicitly) that it's partly to do with decreasing the cost to the BBC of licensing content for which they do not own the IPR by restricting those licences (i.e. numbers) to UK TV* licence payers. But mainly, I think, it's to increase income by licensing content for which they do own the IPR to other broadcasters (or narrow-casters). Totally understandable, IMO, in their current financial and political situation. It's what they've done in television for years - but UK television was never broadcast beyond the UK.

* There is only a TV licence in the UK, which also pays for BBC radio. There used to be a radio licence, but it was abolished decades ago.

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 25 - 09:05 AM

No BBC TV stations as seen in UK have ever been directly broadcast over satellite, but a composite version BBC World- was broadcast as part of satellite packages- this was 30 years ago.

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: DaveRo
Date: 03 Apr 25 - 09:38 AM

BBC TV is, of course, on FreeSat, but that's aimed at the UK and I assume you mean it hasn't ben broadcast elsewhere. (I was talking to somebody just yesterday who lives in France and he told me that UK FreeSat used to cover more of northern France than it does now. I presumed that each replacement Astra 2 satellite has a more accurate footprint.)

I assume BBC World is sold to other broadcasters - I could get it in my hotel in Paris last week alongside US, German, Spanish and Arabic news channels.

Sky UK used to include German- Spanish- and French-language programs in their basic packages - that was probably 30 years ago.

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: Nick Dow
Date: 03 Apr 25 - 10:24 AM

In answer to Guest's question, probably not even that. The BBC pays at source. and in the case of MCPS it is divided by percentage of plays. So effectively If in one month there some superstar gets the most plays on air and his record is 25% of the allotted airtime, then the next act does fifteen percent and so on down, the average folk singer will not register. So five plays does not mean five payments if the percentage is negligible. This is why a lot of people are refusing to enter an agreement with MCPS, and ignoring the system. The PRS system is a bit better, and I'm not too familiar with it other than the songwriter rarely ends up with the dosh. Usually there is a publishing company stood n the way with their hand out to grab any payment.
It is one of the few things that are not the BBC's fault.

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 07 Apr 25 - 05:29 AM

but BBC still fail to provide any explanation, justiication or any reason for this arrogant & thoughtless decision.

'FEEDBACK' last night confirmed that no-one from the BBC would come on the programme to explain anything.

There was a lot of panic about future non-availability of Test Match Special (another casualty of this) to non-UK listeners.

One listener in Portugal was concerned about this, but did not seem to realise that ALL but a few BBC Radio services will be unavailable this spring (whatever that means- it's April now!)

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: DaveRo
Date: 07 Apr 25 - 11:18 AM

Well, I think as our* oldest allies, since 1373, Portugal should definitely get preferential access to Test Match Special.

* England's anyway. We were at war with Scotland at the time.

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 25 - 03:52 PM

England's view on eveything will be the only view broadcast worldwide- so Wales, Scotland & Northern Ireland's view on anything will remain unknown

Subject: RE: Tech: BBC service removal?
From: Nick Dow
Date: 07 Apr 25 - 07:39 PM

Yes, and then only the BBC's selection of English views.