When will Mudcat clean up its act?

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up its act?
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 10:34 PM

Yes, well-said, RobbieWilson, thanks.

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up its act?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 01:38 AM

I still haven't heard from anyone who was actually blocked from Mudcat because of a naughty song title on the Forum Menu; nor have I heard from anyone who was blocked and tried our workaround. I still, therefore, conclude that this really hasn't been a problem for people.

There are lots of things that people post here that drive me absolutely crazy, things like smarminess, pettiness, and mindless repetition. For the most part, I'm expected to put up with them - and I get dumped on if I utter a word of complaint. If those things are permitted, then maybe it should be OK to post a naughty song here every now and then - complete with title. How 'bout if we permit one naughty song in exchange for every birthday thread?
-Joe-

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up its act?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 04:11 AM

So did we decide to clean up mudcat?

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up its act?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 12:44 PM

I recall Billy Connolly years ago saying that fuck is an excellent word. it leaves you in no doubt as to the intention and is a definite word. He said that you never read a book with "Fuck off" he hinted...." in a sentence.

For me, there are times when such expletives are necessary, not strictly necessary, but in order to give expression to a stance. I reckon the only time I get shirty about such use of language is when I see it as a substitute for vocabulary. I used to work down the pit and as an adjective, it was used by just about everybody in just about every sentence. When you got showered and went home, it was as if you were speaking a different language.

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up its act?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 01:22 PM

No, Tim, I don't think we could ever come to an agreement on what to remove to "clean up Mudcat." I think we're better off learning to tolerate others having the freedom of expression that we'd like ourselves to have.

Way back in the earliest days of Mudcat, we had a Mudcatter named Elsie who waged a one-woman war to keep Mudcat free of non-folk posts and non-folk lyrics. Other forces prevailed, and Elsie faded into the mists. Since then, we've tolerated almost everything but direct personal attacks, and we've had a tradition of freedom of posting that has continued to this day.

And we folkie purists are still here, and we like our songs unexpurgated.

All of us find elements of Mudcat distasteful. I have been soundly chastised for my dislike of birthday and "good thoughts" threads. If I had my druthers, I'd ban them - but a lot of Mudcatters wouldn't like that. I think we're best off leaving most things as they were posted, and satisfy ourselves by grumbling here and there about the things we don't like.

In other words:

Clean up Mudcat? Over my dead body!

-Joe-

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up its act?
From: Amos
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 01:23 PM

"Fuck off," he hinted genteely. I love it!


A

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up its act?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 07:36 PM

Did I say THAT, Amos?

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up its act?
From: GUEST,Betsy
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 07:46 PM

Well done (and said) Joe - I believe you're a worthy custodian of Mudcat.
Who knows,in years to come,values may change either way, but for now I'll stick with yours - which roughly reflect mine .

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up its act?
From: G-Force
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 12:01 PM

My, my, what a lot of fuss about a few naughty words! Also, judging by the length of the thread, a subject of surprising interest to many. What I find far more offensive and upsetting is the sheer bitchiness, bad manners and downright unkindness we sometimes read on Mudcat. Perhaps it's the people who post who should clean up their act!

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up its act?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 01:37 PM

Aha! Now you have your finger on the real problem, G-force. ;-)

But there's nothing can be done about it. Believe me, I have tried (from time to time). One might as well tilt at windmills or try to empty the ocean with a bucket.

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up its act?
From: RobbieWilson
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 07:19 AM

Perhaps I was not clear enough when I posted above. In the past Profanity has caused me problems and stopped me logging into Mudcat for weeks at a time. It depends where I work.

5 Years ago a poster called John Mehlberg posted a new "smutty" title virtually other day. It was not the threads which caused me a problem but the titles which meant that I could not access Mudcat at school at all, not through prudishness but because of the education authority (County) filter.

I asked for a little thoughtfulness in thread titles and eventually the problem went away. However as recent events have shown it has always had the potential to raise its ugly head again.

I have no problem with the idea that other people have different levels of what is acceptable, or even that occassionaly people in here express opinions which I find offensive. I can always decide to counter or ignore but only if I can get in the forum in the first place.

It is not the individual words that bother me but the way people speak to each other and yes, Joe, It seems to me that that is pretty much what you did say in big bold letters

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up its act?
From: Zen
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 07:41 AM

My, my, what a lot of fuss about a few naughty words! Also, judging by the length of the thread, a subject of surprising interest to many. What I find far more offensive and upsetting is the sheer bitchiness, bad manners and downright unkindness we sometimes read on Mudcat. Perhaps it's the people who post who should clean up their act!

I quite agree. The odd rude word doesn't bother me at all but what has made me stand back somewhat from Mudcat over the past year or two after 10 years as a member here has been the aggressivity and rudeness of a relatively small number of people who have unfortunately ruined a lot of otherwise useful threads. I know quite a number of 'Catters in person and know I am not alone in this.

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up its act?
From: GUEST,bumcat
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 07:53 AM

Yes, why not slap a few health and safety laws on Mudcat and cosh folksters if they ever stray from the path of the good and righteous!
After all, traditionally folk songs have never included lyrics about bad behaviour have they?! I mean all those songs that ever include events that go against the ten commandments should be banned! They are far worse than a few naughty words surely!

Let's rewrite history, why don't we and then pehaps we can censor all speech while we're at it and before you know it, we're all too afraid to sing any folk songs at all.

How naive this thread is!

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up its act?
From: RobbieWilson
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 08:50 AM

Sorry Bumcat, do you have trouble reading? Throughout this thread people have said do not restrict what people can say. never mind censor song words or singing.

By putting language which will block the Forum Home page you exclude a number of interested parties from Mudcat. Nothing to do with religion, nothing to do with righteousness just simple practicalities of working peoples lives.

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up its act?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 09:06 AM

I was being ironic. If you take care to examine the content of many traditional folk songs, you will find that they often describe events far ruder than a few bad words.

So, Robbie Wilson. Can you read? and more to the point - can you understand what you have read?

Perhaps if you read Jim Carroll's addition to this thread you might understand the orientation of my comment.

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up its act?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 09:25 AM

A bible belt preacher was leaving his church after delivering a hellfire sermon, when he was accosted by a man who grabbed his hand and shook it vigorously.

"Parson, that was the best goddamn sermon I've heard in years" he said.

"My son", said the preacher, "I appreciate the sentiment, but I must insist that you refrain from blasphemy and profanity on these holy premises".

"Well padre, I'm surely sorry if I offended you, but I was so goddamned impressed that I want to donate twenty thousand dollars to your ministry".

The preacher replied "No goddamn shit. Well FUCK ME!"

Don T.

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up its act?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 02:38 PM

Well, Robbie, keep my workaround in mind. if you do get blocked, Google Mudcat FAQ. There's a Filter in the first message of the FAQ, and you can use it to filter out PG13 threads.
I realize that may not help library visitors who come here looking for songs, but I have a feeling that most of them get here by Google, bypassing the Forum Menu and its occasional naughty words.

I once had a very obnoxious sister-in-law who would blurt out all sorts of puzzling things, and some of her sayings became family jokes. One thing that really got us was her tsk-tsk way of talking about people who "used the f-word." She was the first person I ever heard use that term, "f-word," and it always struck me as ridiculously prudish. Then I discovered the Berryman song, "A Chat With Your Mother," alternately titled F-Word in the Digital Tradition. I was pleased to see that Peter Berryman shares my view of the ridiculosity of euphemisms. Every time I see a blatant euphemism, I'm reminded of my stupid, obnoxious sister-in-law. So, for me, it's a gut issue. I don't want Mudcat to look stupid and obnoxious, even if it causes somebody to get blocked by a profanity filter now and then. Most likely, they'll find their way back some other day.

If you're starting a thread and you want to euphemize a bad word, we're not going to stop you....but we're not going to euphemize away things that have been posted. But on the other hand, we will continue to prohibit personal attacks and intervene when they're reported.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up its act?
From: Rafflesbear
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 02:54 PM

Is that personal attacks like stupid and obnoxious?

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up its act?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 03:36 PM

...apologies to my (former) sister-in-law, who shall remain unnamed. I still have contact with her, and she's still a family joke, but I got divorced out of the family.

I think when we say that Mudcat prohibits "personal attacks," we mean Mudcatters attacking other Mudcatters. There have been people who asked that we delete attacks on people like Barack Obama and Sarah Palin, but those petitions have been denied. I think the same applies to comments made about unnamed family pariahs.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up its act?
From: Rafflesbear
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 03:47 PM

Hey! We might even get Barack Obama and Sarah Palin and Nick Griffin joining Mudcat   :-)

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up its act?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 03:47 PM

Guest
Do you object to the song I put up or the comments surrounding it?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up its act?
From: GUEST,bumcat
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 04:17 PM

No, I think your song's great Jim. However I do object to Mudcatters not making personal attacks on Sarah Palin! Can they also make personal attacks on David Cameron, Bill Gates and other supposedly do gooding obnoxious twats please? That also includes all PCPs. Thanks.

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up its act?
From: gnu
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 04:26 PM

Joe... thank goodness cause my SiL still can't parboil shit for a tramp. She does make some meals amazingly well, but the odds are in favour of heartburn.

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up its act?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 04:29 PM

I frequently insult David Cameron and Clegg his fag (that's "fag" as in boyservant at public, ie private, school, not fag as in US based male homosexual). However, surely they are malevolent, not the reverse. But I thought PCP was a hallucinogenic drug.

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up its act?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 04:51 PM

Sarah Palin - have I missed an opportunity to take a pop at Sarah Palin? - sod it!!
Jim Carroll