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BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: jeddy Date: 27 Jun 09 - 09:09 PM please tell me where i can get some nibbles, i am starving!! hey, does anyone know where GfS has gone? i kinda miss him! well done guys this has reached 1800 posts, i am proud of you all for not giving up!! take care all jade x x |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Little Hawk Date: 27 Jun 09 - 09:12 PM YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!! Together you reached 1800 posts! I am eternally grateful, because it won me this art object: Beautiful lamp! Keep them posts a-rollin' IN! You would not believe what I stand to win if you reach 1900... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: jeddy Date: 27 Jun 09 - 09:18 PM that is a nice lamp. but i don't understand why/how you won it, do you have a bet on or something? i will try for you and unless we get some answers i think you might just win! jade x x |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Little Hawk Date: 27 Jun 09 - 09:32 PM Yes, it was a bet. You see, the person I'm betting against has repeatedly been quite convinced that this thread couldn't possibly go on as far as another 100 posts. What would be the point, after all? And yet it does! Due to this extraordinary phenomenon, I have won a series of bets with this person whose only failing is that they don't realize just how far some people will go to prove that another person is "wrong"! ;-) I do realize how far people will go when it comes to that. They'll go to the end of the Universe and back again. They'll die rather than not get the last word. I know this. That's why I keep winning the bets. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: jeddy Date: 27 Jun 09 - 09:40 PM surely they give in?? they must have lost most of their furniture by now!!! i don't THINK i am trying to get anyone to change their minds or admit to being wrong, what i would like is (excuse the pun) straight talking and honesty. when i get that i will be happy,but if not...i think you should bet for cars or houses!!! good luck!! jade x x |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Little Hawk Date: 27 Jun 09 - 11:17 PM Thanks. ;-) Okay, I've said enough. Any more and I would be rigging the bet unfairly. See you at 1900 if it gets that far. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage From: Amos Date: 28 Jun 09 - 12:36 AM Jade: Don't be fooled by Little Hawks pretentious veneer of aloof superiority. It is just a justified position of disengagement that keeps him safe. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Ebbie Date: 28 Jun 09 - 02:59 AM Not to mention that he likes to prove himself right. He's not as different as he sometimes thinks. :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 28 Jun 09 - 05:52 AM ""They'll die rather than not get the last word. I know this. That's why I keep winning the bets."" Of course you know that, LH. YOU are one of them!! Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Jun 09 - 07:36 AM Now, don't keep tempting me to post here, folks! ;-) It's satire that I'm engaging in. And, yes, of course I'm one of them (those who wish to be "right")...and I know it. The fact that I know it helps me to: - laugh at myself as well as others - realize that I am not always right, even if I think I am - see what we all have in common in that respect - and thereby, remain relatively tolerant of a variety of differing viewpoints, remembering that we all all fallible... And that always helps. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Ebbie Date: 28 Jun 09 - 12:04 PM This, Little Hawk, is the kind of satire I understand. The Homosexual Demon |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: gnu Date: 28 Jun 09 - 12:17 PM The War of 1812! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Jun 09 - 12:34 PM Ebbie - Yuck! I read a paragraph or two of it and that was quite enough, thanks. It's a tale of mutual hatred and loathing, combined with utter certainty of one's own moral superiority to someone else, and those are the emotions which fuel that particular confrontation...from either side. I see no possibility of it leading to anything useful on either side. The religious fanatics in that church will just be all the more sure that THEY are in the right and are saving humanity by driving the "demon" out of a boy...and the guy writing to them will wallow gloriously in his own righteous loathing and detestation of them, sure that HE is making the world safer for humanity, and everybody's day will get a little bit nastier. A good basis for launching a war, if that's what you want, but not a good basis for improving anyone's attitude on the subject. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: jeddy Date: 28 Jun 09 - 02:15 PM EBBIE, THAT WAS HORRIBLE!! sorry didn't mean to shout, i couldn't read more than a few paragraphs either. i wonder if they gave the poor sod any drugs or whether he had epilepsy that was triggered by the stress of it all? yet that shows the sort of thing that AKE? and GFS would like to see happen more often. AKE, as you can see, i have given you the benefit of doubt here as i don't think you are quite as hardcore as GFS. i confess i didn't see what year this was in, but i am sure this still happens somewhere in the world as a valid way of "curing" homosexuality. mmmm nice thought!!! it works on the same theory that if someone shouts it into my arm, they could make me "normal" by then cutting it off, worrying isn't it? that someone could have that much belief i would call that a zelot, but someone else would call that faith. i am glad it is not late at night i think that would have given me nightmares. take care all jade x x ps i feel dirty, did that article make anyone else feel like that? x xxxxx x x x x |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 28 Jun 09 - 02:56 PM It once again reminded me that there are still people alive in this world who have not advanced beyond the most abject forms of medieval superstition. That's not religion or spirituality. That's mass delusion. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: akenaton Date: 28 Jun 09 - 04:44 PM Hi Fans....I've been busy with work over the weekend and had no time to read the thread....nothing of any value other than Little Hawk's patient attempts to educate. I don't think you guys realise how lucky you are to to have a genuine philosopher all to yourselves. Personally , I think he's wasting his time.....as my wise old uncle used to say, "ye cannae educate pork". Ebbies link has me puzzled, is this satire as she suggests? or simply a piece of propaganda. No one in their right mind would advocate this sort of abuse. I certainly would not, and I am equally certain GfS wouldn't either. I have absolutely no truck with mad religious fundamentalists. I have stated earlier, that I see homosexuality as a psychological problem, and as such I agree with GfS that the problem could respond to counselling or therapy, but only if this course of action is requested by the the homosexual. To imply as Jeddy does, that either myself or GfS would promote the "medieval" treatment described in Ebbie's link, is frankly ludicrous. I see Jeddy awards me "the benefit of the doubt"...I am deeply honoured to have this benefit bestowed upon me, but cant help wondering, with friends like Jeddy who needs enemies? I am also beginning to take stock of people who post that sort of stuff, does it take the discussion forward or drive a phoney wedge between us?....and what does it prove in the context of the debate....that their are mad people in the various churches? Surely we all knew that already, and the fact that they are victimising a homosexual is incidental, I could just as easily be the demon of lust,psychiatric illness, or blindness they were attempting to excorsise. I see a large portion of ill considered mischief in Ebbie's link. Fortunately folks you have me here to guide you through the minefield..:0).....Ake |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: jeddy Date: 28 Jun 09 - 05:48 PM normally i have quite a sick sense of homour, but that went beyond me. AKE, iam really trying to get to know you and you are not making it easy for me to like you. your' reaction to that article suprises me, as much as you condemn the people who do this, they believe like you do, that being gay is something you can fix,though you do not agree on their methods. why WON'T you answer any of my questions? do they make you think too much or is it that you are incapable of giving answers? i will worry about you if it is the latter. i am not trying to make you feel inadaquate(?)i am merely interested in why you think how you do and how you came to those conclusions. it is so easy for you to try and make me feel bad, but the thing is you cannot, because i simply refuse to let you get to me. i did at first but that was before i remembered that...you don't actually know me and i don't know you. so why don't you stop with the petty insults and actually talk TO me and not AT me. take care all jade x x |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: jeddy Date: 28 Jun 09 - 05:53 PM ake, i forgot to say hello. sorry that was bad manners. i hope the work thing wasn't stressful!! jade x x |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 28 Jun 09 - 08:27 PM "No one in their right mind would advocate this sort of abuse." I agree with the "right mind" part of it, Ake, but there are a distressingly large number of people like that out there. He's no longer around here, but there was a man living in the apartment building where I live who was pretty close to this type. He was highly "religious" (very fundamentalist) and he hated, loathed, and despised gays. One time he dropped by my apartment to rage and storm (knowing my wife and I were fairly regular church-goers, he assumed that I agreed with him) because he had just seen two men walking in the nearby park and holding hands. I think he was furious because God didn't immediately strike them with lightning. I thought he was going to have a stroke! A real sick-o! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 28 Jun 09 - 08:33 PM I've often wondered why he cared so excessively. What did two guys holding hands mean to him? How could it affect him unless he let it? And why would he do that? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage From: Dorothy Parshall Date: 28 Jun 09 - 09:06 PM Don, I rather hope that is a rhetorical question as there is no doubt that those who are most phobic are those who fear that could be "that way" themselves. This man must have been terribly insecure about his "masculinity." As I do not have the time/patience to go back and read 1800 posts, perhaps this has already been addressed. However. It is quite clear that there is every range of human, and other animals, from very masculine to very feminine. Research has actually shown that those who are androgynous tend to be the most contented. I do not care to try to convince anyone of anything other than the simple goal of respecting each person where they are as we each move through our life experiences. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 28 Jun 09 - 09:30 PM Yes, it has been thoroughly covered, Dorothy. And my question is, indeed, rhetorical. I have asked it many times of those who seem to be the most (what else can I say?) homophobic here on this thread, but of course, I don't expect them to give me an answer. It would be far too frightening for them to even consider the question. Nevertheless, I think one should keep asking it. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 29 Jun 09 - 09:43 AM ""I don't think you guys realise how lucky you are to to have a genuine philosopher all to yourselves. Personally , I think he's wasting his time.....as my wise old uncle used to say, "ye cannae educate pork"."" No invective there then! Yeah, right. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: TIA Date: 29 Jun 09 - 09:57 AM Still waiting for the bottom feeding link.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: TIA Date: 29 Jun 09 - 11:06 AM And, still bugged by sarcasm and superiority... Am I to understand that: Ghandi opposed the British occupation because of his need to prove the British wrong and get in the last word. MLK did not quit the civil rights movement because he had a deep need to prove the segregationists wrong. Simon Weisenthal's ego drove him to prove that HE was right. The Abolitionists simply wanted the last word. . . . . . and so forth? I am not saying I am in the same class as any of those. But belittling efforts to stand-up to oppression as simply ego-driven seems pretty snarky. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: akenaton Date: 29 Jun 09 - 12:38 PM As far as I can see, the only people doing any "oppressing" are the two Ronnies....sorry Dons and yourself Tia, Mr Peekstock having fled the field long since. I thought we were supposed to be holding a discussion, is that "oppression"? You make the case for homosexual "marriage", we make the case against, we are not in a position to oppress anyone, so your delusions of saving the world for "liberalism" are a bit premature. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 29 Jun 09 - 01:44 PM Oppressing whom, Ake? We're advocating civil rights, not trying to deny them. You've got things bass-ackwards again. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Amos Date: 29 Jun 09 - 02:01 PM The case for denying the right to formalize a loving bond and commitment between two adults--with the legal cognizance and rights it entails -- is a case for oppression. The case for defining a second-tier class of citizenship with special-case constraints not imposed on the majority, is a case for oppression. THere are no two ways about this aspect of it, regardless of anyone's obsession or lack thereof on the subject of sexuality. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Little Hawk Date: 29 Jun 09 - 02:05 PM "Research has actually shown that those who are androgynous tend to be the most contented." Interesting point, Dorothy! I think that would be so, because they wouldn't be afraid of showing either side of themselves, so to speak...the "masculine" aspects and the "feminine" aspects. I've always felt a bit androgenous...that is, I have no trouble recognizing both the masculine and the feminine qualities existing in myself side by side (despite the fact that I am male and heterosexual)...and I feel fine about both archetypes. Seems to me that a truly balanced human being would show both masculine and feminine nature to some extent, and would harmonize the two. This doesn't have to translate into being bisexual or homosexual...it doesn't have to affect sexual choices at all...instead I'm talking about all the various subtle and obvious aspects of a person, not just their sexual preferences. Some people (a very few) even choose to be celibate, don't forget. I don't see why people should be defined so much in the public mind by their sexual choices! Is it really that important? I have no desire to have sex with men cos they don't physically attract me...so I'm happily heterosexual...but I do see in myself and I value some of the feminine psychological aspects. I consider that an asset, not a liability. It allows me to enjoy life more than I would if I were afraid to show any of that side...and many men are deeply afraid to, so much so that they turn themselves into very defensive, uncommunicative, and emotionally rigid people. They also often tend to be very authoritative people, and you find that in these extreme religious groups. You even find women in that mode! (and to me those women are expressing a lot of their masculine side) I detest authoritarian thinking and rule making, whether it's done by men or by women, and I avoid groups of that sort. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 29 Jun 09 - 02:08 PM Following that line of reasoning, Ake, I suppose Abolitionists prior to the American Civil War were oppressing the slave owners by advocating freeing the slaves, which would deny the slave owners the "right" to sit on the porch of the plantation house and sip their mint juleps while the slaves labored in the cotton fields. Or civil rights workers working for school integration were oppressing the parents of white children who didn't want their children to have to go to school with Blacks. If Don T. and I are "The Two Ronnies," I'd say that makes you "Mr. Bean." Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Little Hawk Date: 29 Jun 09 - 02:24 PM I think what he's objecting to is your personal attacks on specific individuals who don't agree with you on some issue, Don, not your general political stance or your opinions on social issues. But, hell, I've been telling you that for years...and what good did it do? ;-) None. You figure you have 100% righteous license to behave that way to people, since you are defending "the oppressed". As soon as you have identified "the witch" in our midst, you feel it is okay to subject them to that form of treatment. Anyone who breaks rank here on this forum on certain key trigger issues...anyone perceived as "outside" the ruling political orthodoxy that's in sway here....will be treated in that particularly abusive fashion by a little self-righteous gang of passive-aggressive individuals here who delight in attacking people personally. I've never liked that sort of bullying gang mentality. I saw plenty of it when I was in school, and I remember. Just discuss the issue itself, I say. Quit looking around with your lean and hungry eye for another "racist", "sexist", "bigot", "anti-semite" or other such convenient witch to burn. Those who do so are usually far worse than the supposed "witches" they catch. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: akenaton Date: 29 Jun 09 - 03:48 PM Thats right Hawk....I dont want to oppress anyone, blacks, homosexuals, even Canadians (against my better judgement),all I want to do is discuss the issue objectively....let the views for and against be aired. I dont object to Don, Don T, or Tia giving their opinions, I try to put up a counter argument, open a few minds, but when I give my opinion it is deemed "oppression". Who amongst us is the liberal and who the bigot? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: jeddy Date: 29 Jun 09 - 04:04 PM so now we are on an even keel AKE, please tell me whether finding out someone was gay would change your' mind on their character, and would you continue to be their friend? i still can't see what all the fuss is about????????? married or not should not make any difference to anyone, i don't know who among you are married and it really doesn't matter to me, what does matter is whether you are happy, this i think is alot more important. your relationships have no effect on what we can talk about nor does it influence my personal feelings on what you post. i go by what i read and the feeling i get when i read it, yes alot of the time i feel very confused!! after a few reads i nearly understand some of them too LOL anyway take care all jade x x |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 29 Jun 09 - 04:28 PM My "personal attacks on specific individuals who don't agree with [me] on some issue. . . ." That's a crock, Little Hawk! You're going to have to substantiate that. The most you can say is that I've given as good as I've got, and I am not the one who initiates the slagging matches. I have not repeatedly called Ake or GfS "liberal morons," "half-witted," or of "spewing bullshit," nor have I, as GfS does, persist in misspelling the names of people who disagree with me. They have indulged in such personal insults and put-downs all through this thread. Yes, I have alluded to their being homophobes and bigots. And by any definition, they are exhibiting all the characteristics of people whom these terms describe. And I am not the only one who has made that identification. Little Hawk, why are you singling me out? What's your problem? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Amos Date: 29 Jun 09 - 04:40 PM Ake, GfS, here is a slide show for your amusement. Please view it thoughtfully. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Ebbie Date: 29 Jun 09 - 05:14 PM "I think what he's objecting to is your personal attacks on specific individuals who don't agree with you on some issue, Don, not your general political stance or your opinions on social issues. But, hell, I've been telling you that for years...and what good did it do? ;-) None. You figure you have 100% righteous license to behave that way to people, since you are defending "the oppressed". As soon as you have identified "the witch" in our midst, you feel it is okay to subject them to that form of treatment. "Anyone who breaks rank here on this forum on certain key trigger issues...anyone perceived as "outside" the ruling political orthodoxy that's in sway here....will be treated in that particularly abusive fashion by a little self-righteous gang of passive-aggressive individuals here who delight in attacking people personally. I've never liked that sort of bullying gang mentality. I saw plenty of it when I was in school, and I remember." Little Hawk Ye gods, Little Hawk. If you really believe what you say there you are letting your own biases color all over it. All you need do - if you have the time to do it - is to go through all these posts from ake and GfS on one side and the Dons on the other and post them onto a Word document and you would very quickly and definitively see who has been abusive. And it most definitely has not been the two Dons. For that matter, Little Hawk, no matter the dispassionate manner in which you give your opinions, what you actually say is insulting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: akenaton Date: 29 Jun 09 - 05:27 PM The only answer to such propaganda Amos, is that if the vast majority held such demonstrations demonstrating their pride in being heterosexual they would immediately be smeared as bigots, homophobes, lynch mob......all the stuff we've been hearing on this thread. The "liberal" agenda is eveywhere,in race, sexuality, even how we bring up our families, smothering discussion, free speech, democracy, its tentacles are choking the life out of society. Look at this thread on what shoud be an open free forum, do you think the views expressed on this thread represent the views of society at large,or even the views of the membership? "Liberalism" is the antithesis of freedom. "Liberalism" intimidates, it makes voices silent.....it is social death....Ake |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: TIA Date: 29 Jun 09 - 05:31 PM I think I fell through the looking glass. Questioning someone's opinion is oppression now? Some are very easily "oppressed" I would say, and wanting very much to be the victim it would seem. Like I said a few months ago - It is impossible to oppose intolerance without opening oneself to accusations of being intolerant. The intolerant will accuse you of not tolerating their intolerance. Here we are. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 29 Jun 09 - 05:35 PM "Liberalism" is the antithesis of freedom. . . ." Sweet mother of Zeus!!!!! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: jeddy Date: 29 Jun 09 - 05:54 PM if i have read this right, how can you say that being liberal, means you don't let everyone hold their own point of view? i thought that was the whole point, everyone is entitled to sayhow they think and feel how they wish, as long as it hurts no one else or affects anyone elses life. i would say i try to be very liberal, not always successfully, that is why i have been trying to get you to open up and explain how you came to think how you do AKE, i am not giving up!! i know there is a decent bloke in there and i am determined to get you to admit it!!!!!! LOL i think a straight pride would be great, as long as there was no trouble why not? the whole purpose of such marches is to feel included, why not have a combined one, we could even have a proud to be british,or proud to be ginger. it is all about saying i am here and i feel confortable within myself. GO FOR IT!!! whoever you are you have something to be proud of within you so why not shout it from the rooftops? take care all jade x x x |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 29 Jun 09 - 06:50 PM For the benefit of those who seem to be badly bewildered: lib•er•alYour welcome. Glad to oblige. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage From: Amos Date: 29 Jun 09 - 06:53 PM TIA: The oppression I am objecting to is legally denying certain aspects of citizenhood to a subset of adult citizen because of their sexual orientation. That is, pure and simply, a bias against a minority that those motivated by hatred wish to codify into law, much like those who espoused eugenics in the late 19th century. It is not disagreeing with me that is oppression. Get your facts straight before you claw for the high ground, buddy. Your points of view have been confused summat. Denying equal civil rights is a choice to oppress. While you may not feel this as a member of th emajority, you surely would if you were one of those whose ox was being gored. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Peace Date: 29 Jun 09 - 06:55 PM No matter where ya go, there ya are. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST Date: 29 Jun 09 - 08:37 PM Amos: "The oppression I am objecting to is legally denying certain aspects of citizenhood to a subset of adult citizen because of their sexual orientation." Exactly. Me too. My last posts were: 1) at 11:06 AM, a swipe at our resident gloaty goat who seems to think we are opposing such oppression only from an egotistical need to win or have the last word, and 2) at 5:31 PM a response to Akenaton who seemed to claim that simply questioning his (IMHO) dubious opinions is a form of oppression. That is, we are intolerant because we stand up to his intolerance. Which of these two put shite in your oatmeal my friend? Or was it an earlier one? I am certainly oft confused, but I think you may have outdid me in confuzzlement on this one. TIA |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST,TIA...confused Date: 29 Jun 09 - 08:39 PM Me above, devoid of biscuit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: akenaton Date: 30 Jun 09 - 03:03 AM The key to your confusion is that the political creed that you follow ("Liberalism") bears no relation to true freedom or liberty. You still live in a world where the label is king.....call it something and it will be so.....hense the labels used to define those who disagree with you. Try opening your minds and examining the effects of your brand of "liberal" politics, it should soon become apparent that freedom can never live as an "ism". As I said earlier organised "liberalism" is the antithesis of liberty. Coming to terms with this unfortunate fact requires a certain amount of mental effort, or do you prefer to be spoonfed your sanitised and pre packaged beliefs by the masters of manipulation? By the way Tia, go back and read your post, you were the one who said you were here to "stand up to oppression" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 30 Jun 09 - 06:47 AM COME ON GUYS! Can't you see what he's doing. Once again he's dragged that bloody great red herring across your paths, and you're off in the direction he wants you to take. Ake DOESN'T have an argument that stands up under the most cursory application of logical analysis, so he obfuscates. He ducks and dives and spins to divert the topic from the basic civil rights issue. He indulges in invective and vituperation, then complains when his attitudes and opinions lead to comments about bigotry and homophobia. If we were Morons (which we patently are not), it would be an accident of nature. His bigotted attitudes are a personal choice. In classic passive/aggressive style he turns the whole thread into a discussion of HIS victim status, standing up to a gang of bullies. And AGAIN AND AGAIN, WE LET HIM DO IT!. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Smedley Date: 30 Jun 09 - 06:49 AM Well if you stopped biting every time he went fishing, this preposterously protracted thread could die a long overdue death. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: jeddy Date: 30 Jun 09 - 07:10 AM i think i am no good at this manipulation thing. i hadn't noticed!!! come on i think it time to go down the pub again even though it is early. AKE, the whole point of being liberal is not to judge and pigion(?) hole someone, but take as you find them. it is fine to disagree, but not to try and force your' ideas and thoughts on someone. the labeling we do is often self inflicted. i have given you ample time to try and see the other side of this, as have several others, i have run out of ways of asking you, if you were gay how would you feel about being told you were abnormal and your lifestyle was undesirable? i don't expect an answer because i don't think you can give one.i will only say this once more i am not picking on you, i respect you PMing me and i am grateful. i still don't understand why civil rights don't apply to all? they are not then civil rights, they are more priviliges for the chosen ones. criminals forgo alot of their civil rights but as someone said already, even they are allowed to marry in prison. why would anyone want to stop people saying to the world, we are together, we are stable and we are happy? why would anyone want to stop a couple being finacially secure after the tragady of death? the one that is left behind is already in emtoinal termoil why would anyone wish to make that worse by making it more difficult? now i have morbided myself i shall leave you to ponder. take care all jade x x |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 30 Jun 09 - 07:23 AM ""Well if you stopped biting every time he went fishing, this preposterously protracted thread could die a long overdue death."" Well, your enlghtening contribution just made it one post longer. Don T. |
