BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...

Subject: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 02 - 03:38 PM

... arrogant government bureaucrats who are peddling groundless innuendo and half-information about me to gullible reporters who, in turn, repeat this to the public under the guise of news." Steven J. Hatfill, who is under investigation regarding the anthrax mailings.

Here is a man, who though might not be a perfect man (who is?), is not just under investigation but under siege. His home and his girlfriend's home have been ransacked. He is now followed by media hounds 24-7. He has lost his job and his future for standing up to the FBI and the Justice Department doesn't look too bright.

The FBI has no evidence that it is willing to throw out to support its harassment of this citizen and Mr. Hatfill has already passed a polygraph test claiming his innocence. Yet the beat goes on! And for what? So that Americans can rest comfortably thinking their government is making progress in this investigation? Are we at point in the demise of our liberties where we think the sacrifice of lambs will cleanse us? Hmmmmmm? Yeah, I rant about John Ashcroft's vision of America because John Ashcroft is, in my opinion, the most dangerous man since Joe McCarthy. And I think that folks who have opportunities, like many folks here at Mudcat do, have an obligation to stand up and say a few things to their audiences about this very grave situation that out Bill of Rights is facing.

"In my view he (Ashcroft) has broken the Ninth Commandment: Thou shalt not bear false witness" Hatfill also remarked during a press conference yesterday. Like I've said before, John Ashcroft is no more a Christian than the Bobert is a brain surgeon.

End of Rant

Save our Freedoms

Impeach John Ashcroft (or whatever ya' do with bad, bad people...)

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: alanabit
Date: 26 Aug 02 - 04:06 PM

Strap em to a chair and make'em listen to rap records - if this isn't in breach of the UN Charter of course. I couldn't agree with you more Bobert. Aren't the FBI supposed to protect your constitution? They seem to have dealt it more damning blows than Communists or political cranks ever could have.

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: SharonA
Date: 26 Aug 02 - 04:50 PM

An' they' ain't nuthin' worser than a dee-stroyed lif. *G*

But seriously, I'm not sure whether to believe Hatfill or not. Polygraph tests aren't foolproof. It would be nice to hear about some evidence if the FBI actually has any, though. We'll see.

But the "legal" bending and twisting of the presumption of innocence certainly isn't limited to Hatfill's situation. Check out this story from the AP:

Shades of 'Minority Report'?
Wilmington Tracks "Potential Criminals"

WILMINGTON, DELAWARE-August 26, 2002 — Defense lawyers and the American Civil Liberties Union are up in arms over a police file of potential criminals in Delaware. The database contains a list of people who police believe are likely to break the law. It features names, addresses and photographs of potential suspects – many of whom have clean slates.

Since the system was introduced in Wilmington in June, most of the 200 people included in the file have been minorities from poor, high-crime neighborhoods. State and federal prosecutors say the tactic is legal.

The photos are being taken by two Wilmington police squads created to arrest drug dealers. Many of the people whose photos have been taken were stopped briefly for loitering and let go.

(Copyright 2002 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 26 Aug 02 - 04:58 PM

Well , thanks to the iNet , the citizen's exercise of " constant vigilance being the price of freedom" takes on a whole new dimension .

Know that this here DoJ is being actively "watched like a hawk" by its *citizenry* of all stripe and persuasion and the great American passtime of sounding off and shouting "Bat Guano" in a crowded room ( online or otherwise ) is alive and well *as it should be*.

As far as his about ..... " gullible reporters who, in turn, reppeat this to the public under the guise of news." ....in this marketplace of overly-commercilaized *packaged* public opinion square-dancing with *tabloid* news as entertainment......well I have to correct Citizen Hatfield a wee bit-of-a-tweak because , like demon drugs & pornography , there wouldn't be so much of it if so many otherwise just good folks *supported it* so readily and feverishly.

I mention this because I've found it a great splash of reality in the face of some of my more Right wing-persuded friends/ informal debaters who readily worship at the altar of *laissez faire uber alles* and yet forget that *the media* is a central creature of that self-same free market. Always manages to wrinkle a few idoelogically correct noses outta joint. Try this at home and it's great at parties and social gatherings.. I love reminding them the what they criticize as *the Media* ( meaning all press or TV that doesn't agree with their *free market * conservativism ) are chasing after the same profit motive that the Right wingers so religiously espouse. That's the Jeffersonian Faustiain bargain of a Jeffersonian free press in an Alexander Hamilton marketplace: If there were not such a profit-ready market for the *tabloidization* of the news then you wouldn't get so much of it. To quote Don Henley : " We *want* dirty laundry". And yet ,to loosely quote ol' Tom Jefferson: " I'd rather have an active press and no Gov't than an active Gov't and no press ". Free speech cuts both ways and twice ways from Sunday and all Americans should have a healthy skepticism anyway just on principle . So Mr. Hatfill's complaint about the media's part in magnifying his public pillorying by the FBI is a bit uncalled for because it'll be that same media who will just as publically *roast* the FBI alive for getting another one wrong and then Mr. Hatfill will have his public vindication.

Glad you sounded off Rev. Bobert. Pushing some buttons means your opinion has "currency"

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: Kim C
Date: 26 Aug 02 - 05:01 PM

Polygraph tests aren't admissible in court because they aren't very accurate. A crafty person can lie and fool it, and a nervous person can tell the truth and register a false positive.

So... if Hatfill is telling the truth, then yeah, it sucks, and there's going to be hell to pay. But remember, they did this once before with the guy they thought was the Atlanta Olympic bomber. I don't even remember the kid's name now.

I am reserving any judgment until I know what all the facts are. Personally, I don't think the anthrax trick was pulled by someone as smart as him, and I don't think it was done by a terrorist. I think it was done by someone who THINKS he's really smart, and just wanted to cause some sort of a ruckus to make himself feel powerful.

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: SINSULL
Date: 26 Aug 02 - 05:19 PM

Wait until our disgruntled mailmen start filing reports on those of us who in their opinion are "suspicious". Not singling out mailmen but Bush's intent to create a system of "rats" to keep track of our every movement. I believe this is how the Salem witch trials started...then again, I do have a neighbor who insists on blasting rock music with his windows and doors open.

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: artbrooks
Date: 26 Aug 02 - 05:30 PM

While I don't think that there is any excuse at all for Mr. Ashcroft's method of operations or for the media hounding someone, if that's what they're actually doing, I also think it would be a shame if an investigation were to be called off because the subject protested too much, and he later turned out to be guilty. There are a lot of indications pointing at Mr. Hatfill and, if I were in his shoes, I would welcome the chance to be proven innocent.

Yes, I know that the criteria in our justice system is "innocent until proven guilty", but the media tend to use the other one: "newsworthy until proven boring".

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Aug 02 - 06:15 PM

it's just fortunate that Ashcroft doesn't have J. Edgar Hoover still running the FBI!...can you imagine THAT combination?

We all sorta knew how Ashcroft would operate before he was ever in office, now we see more & more of his attitudes coming out in specific cases...I just hope he makes some BIG blunder that will expose the danger to even those conservatives with some sense...

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: khandu
Date: 26 Aug 02 - 06:46 PM

"He's oh so good,

And he's oh so fine,

And he's oh so healthy

in his body and his mind.

He's a well respected man about town,

Doing the best things so conservatively"... (The Kinks)

khandu

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: Barry Finn
Date: 26 Aug 02 - 09:06 PM

Same thing happen to a security guard who was dubbed the Olympic Bomber a few yrs back. He was a hero & saved a bunch of people from a planted bomb that went off. The FBI turned around & harrased him into hell & still they've never have come up with a shred of evidence & still not one word of apology. It now seems he way have a good case against them, if he's allowed to do such a thing. He was a hero who only wanted to do the right thing & since he's been totally destroyed because the government had no where to go so the poor smuck got the shaft because the FBI could look pretty after having so much egg on their face.
Funny in the Boston area it seems that the FBI became corporate raiders & took over Murder INC, the enforcing arm of the lawless.
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: DougR
Date: 26 Aug 02 - 09:52 PM

Ah Bobert, I'm sure you will survive. If it weren't for Ashcroft, what would you have to bitch about? Ooops! Leading question. Bush and Cheny and Rumsfield, of course. (Did I leave anybody out?) >)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: Melani
Date: 27 Aug 02 - 12:52 AM

When I was young and naive, I used to think that someday the good guys would win, our rights and freedoms would be protected, and we would all live happily ever after in peace and prosperity. What got my attention then was a radio show called "The Radical Elders Oral History Project." It was a series of interviews with old labor leaders and other radical types from the thirties and forties. I realized then that they had been fighting for the same things my friends and I were marching in the streets about in the seventies and eighties, and it gradually dawned on me that the fight would never be over. We ALWAYS have to watch out for guys like John Ashcroft, who are likely to ride roughshod over the Constitution with the conviction that what they are doing is right.

I have no idea whether this guy Hatfill is a legitimate suspect or not, but I do know that the FBI is potentially dangerous.

But ya know, Doug, you're still my favorite right-winger.

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 27 Aug 02 - 01:08 AM

Richard Jewell.

Seamus

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: DougR
Date: 27 Aug 02 - 01:50 AM

Thank you Melani. :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Aug 02 - 08:25 AM

Mine, too, Doug... (the Bobert wipes a tear from the corner of his eye.) But the Big Three are just the tip of the iceburg. Actually Bush is not smart enough to really be feared. If he woke tomorrow ro discover that he'd been dreaming that he was a puppet for the conservative and actually a puppet for the progressives, he wouldn't miss a beat. Just wind him up, tell the boy what to say and hope he doesn't trip on the way to the podium. But now Cheney and Ashcroft. These are a couple of real dangerous folks....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: Kim C
Date: 27 Aug 02 - 09:48 AM

Barry, if I remember right (and it's been a long time ago), all charges against Richard Jewell were officially dropped, and I -think- an apology was issued. I may be wrong about that, but I do know that he was officially cleared of any wrongdoing.

The guy they think actually did it is still hiding out in the woods of North Carolina somewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: artbrooks
Date: 27 Aug 02 - 10:08 AM

I think I'd call it "sort of" an apology, link here. Considering that the tendency is to brush major mistakes off, I guess this is as close to groveling as the FBI gets.

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: Jande
Date: 27 Aug 02 - 11:16 AM

"Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber-barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber-baron's cruelty may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."

-- C.S. Lewis -

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 27 Aug 02 - 11:47 AM

Love the C.S.Lewis quotage , but then he was referring to a still early 20th century, still *Empire-minded*, United Kingdom, England ; the same creeping oppressive "socialism is the future" agendaed government that gave George Orwell his muse that resulted in "1984", was in the afterglow of H.G.Wells' "History" and Algous Huxley , produced Ayn Rand ,and about 14 years later , gave rise to Anthony Burgess' " A Clockwork Orange".

I take a back seat to no one when it comes to watching Big Gov't like a hawk , but to even suggest that the market-libetarian agenda of "least gov't is best gov't " which evangelize that there is no , and never was, such a thing "as" a robber baron; only free-enterprising entreprenuers in the Ayn Rand mold , is *grossly* wide of the mark.

I found C.S.Lewis' quote; "The robber-baron's cruelty may at some point be satiated...." especially naive at best and the worst kind of distortive hyperbole employed to make one's point.

I'll offer a counter-quote from another distinguished and uniquely qualitfied representative of the UK's men of letters; Winne the Churchill. You must know the quote; something about "Democratic Gov't is the worst kind of gov't.......except for ALL the others ".

BTW : The minor annoynance of the 3rd Reich that ol' Winnie was concerned with would not have had a chance without the willing embrace of "robber barons" and captains of industry producing the "economic miracle" of New Germany 's "National Socialism" during the global depression 30's.

I know criticizing the Gov't is the great American passtime , and even part of our nature, but some balance is healthy.

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: DougR
Date: 27 Aug 02 - 04:36 PM

Taliesn: Not all U.S. citizens are as critical of their government as others. I would even venture a guess that is the minority of the citizens that is the most critical.

Bobert: YOU didn't do that big bang down in Atlanta did you? I know you are digruntled, but that's taking it a bit far! :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Aug 02 - 12:58 PM

DougR: No "big bangs" for the bobert, thnak you. Yeah, the coming American Revolution will be fought by warriors who fully understand the dynamics of the struggle and that ain't with anything that goes "bang". That kind of stuff is for the other side and they got enough bangy stuff to bang up the world many times over so we certainly won't play into their strength.

Nope, a few of us might have to get run over by a few of Junior Bush Laden's tanks before tghe rest of the planet figures out the Emperor indeed has no pants on, but it will happen. Junior and Co. are doing a fine job of displaying their total disregard for humanity, democracy and freedom. If they stay the course, we just might finish the work we started in the 60's, with these guys now playing out their roles so well as bad, bad men.

Yeah, who is it that has weapons of mass destruction that is willing to use them on his neighbors? And who is it that makes promises and then breaks them? And who is it that refuses to let it's weapons plants be inspected by the UN? And who is it that never saw a treraty worth keeping?

Your answer:___________________

Guess again...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: DougR
Date: 28 Aug 02 - 02:24 PM

Tahiti?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: Tweed
Date: 28 Aug 02 - 07:43 PM

Hey,quit yer bitchin' and go write to your favorite government official

HERE

Be a good idea to do it while a few of the elected still have an ounce of decency left in them. If we go to war per little bush's bizarre plan, all them representatives will be unapproachable, for fear of bein' labeled traitors. Call 'em up (or email) and tell them what you want.

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: Peg
Date: 28 Aug 02 - 07:48 PM

I read an amazing editorial on this in the Washington Post, entitled "Gotcha." I will see if I can find the URL.

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Aug 02 - 10:15 PM

Well, Tweezer, Iz been writing but ya' gotta admit that when Senators Byrd and Rockefeller get 10 emails from me a day, that after a while they quit readin' 'em. *SO*, I bitch here in the Catbox hopin' to get a few others to email their reps. And then those folks get some of their friends to do the same and then, bang (wrong word), enought folks have let their reps know that if the USA goes off and does some stupid stuff that they (the reps) may be back sellin' insurance or encyclopedias door to door after the next election....

Boberdz

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: DougR
Date: 28 Aug 02 - 11:34 PM

Right, Bobert, as I said in another thread, the Postal Service can use the money!

I don't know why you would despair as to the Mudcat, though, hell, everybody but three or four (if that many) agree with you! :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Aug 02 - 08:34 AM

Hmmmmmm, Dougie. 5002 to 3 or 4. Maybe we're right...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: DougR
Date: 31 Aug 02 - 02:58 AM

Hmmm. Well no doubt, you THINK you're right! :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: 'My lif is being destroyed by...
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Aug 02 - 02:48 PM

I'll let you have the last word on this thread, Douggie, and see ya' on a couple other more active ones...

Bobert