Lyr Add: England My England

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Oct 09 - 09:40 AM

Folkiedave, everyone gets free prescriptions in Scotland and Wales.
I don't get mine until next year.
Will English be a permitted nationality on the 2011 census?
It was not last time.
One pensioner went briefly to prison for refusing to fill in the last one with other than English nationality.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1841092.stm

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Rasener
Date: 15 Oct 09 - 09:47 AM

Keith, was Scottish or Irish or Welsh allowed on the Census?

If not, then I wouldn't have an issue.

I always fill in Britsh on forms, but I am still English.

Also how will you get free prescriptions in England, Keith?

Subject: RE: England My England
From: greg stephens
Date: 15 Oct 09 - 09:50 AM

I have spent my life researching English folk music. Which I think eminently qualifies me to say that that poem/song is a load of ignorant, sub-Fascist drivelling bollocks. Fit for nothing except being printed on the back of Nick Griffin's Christmas cards.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Rasener
Date: 15 Oct 09 - 10:06 AM

So does it come from there Greg?

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Oct 09 - 10:15 AM

I'll be sixty next year Villan.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Oct 09 - 10:20 AM

It's the same on any form - And I always tick 'Other European' :-) If you look at the story the pensioner comes off as a particularly predjudiced sort of person.

DeG

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Rasener
Date: 15 Oct 09 - 10:22 AM

Does being 60 give you free prescritions in England. Well I didn't know that one. So what you are saying is that I should be getting any medical things I need for free e.g. paracetomal, cough mixture etc etc.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Oct 09 - 10:22 AM

Folkiedave, everyone gets free prescriptions in Scotland and Wales.

They don't in Scotland. I only started getting them free when I turned 60 a couple of months ago.

Put me in mind of a speech by the Australian Priminister some time ago, saying basically they welcome with open arms anyone who wants to go and live there and help Australia be the best at anything it does

He was lying. Australia's treatment of refugees in the last few years has been appalling.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Rasener
Date: 15 Oct 09 - 10:25 AM

>>If you look at the story the pensioner comes off as a particularly predjudiced sort of person.
<<

He does doesn't he.

However putting him in prison for wanting to say he was English is a bit harsh.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 15 Oct 09 - 10:35 AM

This post is know reaching the point where people will join in and repaet all kinds of stuff that has been said and rebutted earlier.

I would ask anybody: if you can't be bothered to read the whole thread to read mikeofnorthumbria above or just don't bother.

Cheers

L in C

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Oct 09 - 12:30 PM

Agreed, Les, but as Mike said there are some half truths that are worse than downright lies. Take, for instance, the story that Keith quotes. Luckily the BBC seemed to cover all the right bases but can you imagine the fun that the 'irrational right' (thanks for that one as well, Mike:-) ) press will have made of it? Jailed for wanting to English? I think not. Making a fuss to fuel the fires of predjudice? make your own minds up.

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 15 Oct 09 - 12:33 PM

Conservatives always find a way to portray themselves as victims.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 15 Oct 09 - 12:43 PM

I agree with my Chorlton compadre, Les IC.

Mike of Northumbria, Leveller, Dave El Gnomo and co have summed it up nicely.

But thank you too, Villan, for posting the verse that gave rise to these splendid posts, without which, etc etc...

I note that M of N uses the term "adopt a pre-emptive cringe", to which I'd like to reply, "Why thank you kindly, sir!". I've never been called "pre-emptive" before or had anyone want to adopt me...

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Oct 09 - 12:53 PM

I can with joy listen to Brian Sewell speak without limit of time - just to hear his modulation and vowel sounds. Sometimes his words are fine too, but mainly it does not matter what he is saying.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 15 Oct 09 - 03:27 PM

He does it so well even when his tongue is firmly in his cheek, which is quite a feat or should that be feet?

L in C

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Joe_F
Date: 18 Oct 09 - 09:46 PM

Fred McCormick: In the statement by Orwell that you recall, he was quoting G. K. Chesterton.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: GUEST,George
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 04:51 AM

What is Billy Bragg's other half made up of?

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 06:23 AM

He has Italian grandparents.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: GUEST,old git
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 08:11 AM

DeG got there before me and made the points I was going to make.
As an addition to what he was saying..I doubt very much that the majority of people who celebrate St Patrick's day or Burns'night with such gusto are overly nationalistic for the rest of the year. They are swept along with the fervour of the moment...and an excuse to party. In the same way,when the English rugby ,cricket or football teams are doing well,people who have never taken the slightest interest in these sports suddenly festoon their cars and/or houses with St George's flags. I also suspect that large numbers of people have no idea why they celebrate Nov 5...but just watch the protests if anyone tries to ban it!! (I'm sure many of us regret that Guy Fawkes and his comrades aren't still with us!...OK..before any one starts quoting historical facts...that was tongue in cheek)
Les W...although I may share some of your grievances...I think the privileges and rights you think you are lacking are more to do with political expediency than attempts to suppress any feeling of Engish identity (though on this point I am largely in line with GSS

geoff t

ps I think the song is crass

Subject: RE: England My England
From: GUEST,George
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 08:27 AM

So his mother/father is Italian but is his mother tongue Italian? and who does he support when Italy plays England? .. just asking.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 09:04 AM

Will English be a permitted nationality on the 2011 census?
It was not last time.

Actually it wasn't a permitted ethnicity - there wasn't a 'nationality' Q in the 2001 Census. There will be in 2011, and both English and Welsh will be options in England, Wales and NI. (Not Cornish, though.)

One pensioner went briefly to prison for refusing to fill in the last one with other than English nationality.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1841092.stm

Robert Relf - there's a foul-smelling blast from the past.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 09:39 AM

Thank God, they usually shoot themselves in their size twelves - I love the reference to George Bernard Shaw, the well known Englishman.

However there is a serious point which was made earlier in the thread about far rightists trying to take over our music. I know it's been discussed elsewhere, but I'll mention it again - Griffin's apologists/associates are or were selling material by people like Show of Hands and Fairport on their websites (without the knowledge of said people of course).

This is quite dangerous as it gives the impression that there are people with actual ability associated with their cause (as well as dreadful doggerel merchants).

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 03:31 AM

Geoff, my reason for posting was not that I liked the lyrics/poetry whatever you may want to call it or agreed with its sentiments.
I posted it becuase it concerned me that this sort of e-mail encourages people to send it to other poeple who have e-mail, thus ensuring it gets to a mass market. Note the last line of the e-mail says "If you are English pass it on please"

I do not forward any sort of e-mail like this on. Its pure spamming, but I was concerned about its origins etc.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: ard mhacha
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 05:19 AM

Villan, it looks like UKIP, or as Martin O`Neill would say. `Villa for Europe`, which we are told is across those wide seas.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 06:34 AM

LOL Ard

Subject: RE: England My England
From: GUEST,old git
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 07:32 AM

Les,
I fully understood your reasons for posting this. My comments were in reply to your comment "Why can't those living in England get the same privileges ,free prescriptions etc." I get free prescriptions...I'm over 60.
geoff t

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 07:40 AM

Hi Geoff
Yes OK I am with you now :-)
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 07:50 AM

Just Wales that gets free prescriptions then.
Sorry.
Scotland does get free care for the old and no tuition fees for university.
They are also introducing free school meals.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 08:25 AM

And in Scotland they are already cheaper than in England, and will be free next year!
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2007/12/05141211

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 08:27 AM

Prescription charges that is.
sorry

Subject: RE: England My England
From: TheSnail
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 08:44 AM

I'm a bit confused about the implications of there being no free prescriptions in England (except for those who do get them like me). Is this seen as some dreadful anti-English conspiracy by the Scots and Welsh?

The Villan asks "Why can't those living in England get the same privelages and free prescriptions etc". Because that is what the Westminster parliament has decided.

Aneurin Bevan, who was largely responsible for founding the NHS, was Welsh by the way.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 08:47 AM

Scottish MPs voted for England not to have what the Scots enjoy.
Without their votes the government could not have got away with it.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: TheSnail
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 09:18 AM

So, Keith, you are saying it's an anti-English conspiracy by the Scots. Do you have the voting figures?

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 09:34 AM

Mr Clarke gave the 2004 vote to bring in annual student tuition fees of up to £3,000 a year in England as an example.

The government had managed a Commons majority only through its Scottish and Welsh MPs, even though the fees do not apply in the country, he said.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7481906.stm

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 09:41 AM

Researchers at the Constitution Unit at University College London identified four votes in the 2001-2005 parliament where a measure was carried by Scottish MPs.

The votes were on the second and third readings of two bills. The Health and Social Care Bill, which introduced Foundation Hospitals, and the Higher Education Bill, which introduced Tuition Fees - which are not payable at Scottish universities.

Both bills would have been defeated by a narrow margin (between 1 and 17 votes) if only English MPs had voted.

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/factcheck%20do%20scottish%20mps%20tell%20england%20what%20to%20

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 09:47 AM

If that is the case, shouldn't us English demand a re- vote without the Scots and Welsh voting?

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 10:01 AM

Many did.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: TheSnail
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 10:47 AM

That's pretty conclusive, Keith. It really is a dastardly Scottish plot against the English. You'll be telling me next that the Prime Minister is Scottish. I just wonder how they managed to persuade all those English MPs to join them in their evil scheme.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 10:55 AM

it is a little more complex than that.
Scotland has an SNP government. It suits them to antagonise the English to further the chance of their independence.
They keep giving themselves things they know the government can not afford to give us.
But, the government has no majority without its Scottish MPs so has to use them to vote down the English Opposition MPs.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 11:05 AM

The bounders.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: TheSnail
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 11:24 AM

I still don't understand why the English MPs voted for this anti-English legislation.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 11:41 AM

Only those under government whip did.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: TheSnail
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 12:02 PM

So how many of those Scottish MPs were under government whip and how many weren't?

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 01:44 PM

All.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: TheSnail
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 01:46 PM

They were all under government whip?

Subject: RE: England My England
From: GUEST,old git
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 03:02 PM

Les
this is what I meant by political expediency.

geoff

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 03:11 PM

Yes, the government was asked to allow them to abstain since they were voting to deny English people something that their own constituents were granted.
The government refused.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 07:00 PM

Does being 60 give you free prescritions in England.

Simple answer, yes. Have a look at the prescription form next time you have one, and tick the appropriate bit. After I turned 60 I didn't realise that for a year or so - I'd rather assumed I'd have wait until I turned 65.

As for "England" - if the Tories get back in, I don't imagine it'll be too long before the Scots and the Welsh go independent. Which will mean that "Britain" will once more be a geographical term rather than a political one, and England will be a nation once again - made up of all shades and varieties of people.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Paul Burke
Date: 21 Oct 09 - 02:14 AM

Dick asked who built Hadrian's Wall, and why. And why it was where it was.

Well point one is it was nothing to do with the English, or the Scots, who wouldn't be around for another few hundred years. The builders were a very cosmopolitan bunch of military types, who included native Celts, Romans, Spaniards, Germans, French (anachronism of course), Greeks, Africans and Syrians, among others.

What for? Its use varied over time (it was in use for about 250 years)- from triumphal border marker, customs post, defensive line, immigration control, base for patrols. It served several of these purposes at any one time, though the mix varied.

Why there? It's certain that at most times the area beyond the wall was Roman controlled or at least influenced, but probably wasn't worth the tax money of a permanent presence. It was poor enough to treat almost like the Jordan desert, not worth the effort. It was about the shortest possible route for effective purposes- the Antonine Wall was shorter as a wall, but badly outflanked either side by the Clyde and Forth estuaries, whereas Hadrian's had the easily patrolled Solway Firth on the West, and a straightish inhospitable coastline on the East.

Subject: RE: England My England
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Oct 09 - 03:05 AM

Thanks Mcgrath. I didn't realise that.