 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
|
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill Date: 28 Jul 05 - 10:34 AM I wonder how many checkpoints were on the old Roman roads |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: Shakey Date: 28 Jul 05 - 10:35 AM checkpoints ? What you asking me for, didn't your lot build them all :-) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain Date: 28 Jul 05 - 10:37 AM Sarky Shakey.. Sweet! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain Date: 28 Jul 05 - 10:39 AM Ahh is 'Revisionism' raising it's ugly head here??? I suppose Iraq will have invaded itself by the time 20 years have passed... ;-) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: Shakey Date: 28 Jul 05 - 10:44 AM Ahh is 'Revisionism' raising it's ugly head here??? If you're referring to crack about the checkpoints You've probably misunderstood though looking at it I could have done it a little better. I was inferring that the roman roads were probably built by the irish. I trust the sense of humour hasn't been put beyond use Shakey |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill Date: 28 Jul 05 - 10:45 AM I don't think you're a bastard, Shakey. Not even a sarky one... ;) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: GUEST,curious Date: 28 Jul 05 - 10:51 AM We reiterate our view that the armed struggle was entirely legitimate. We are conscious that many people suffered in the conflict. Shakey I think it helps to provide the quote in context. Justifying it's actions falls way short of the apology to the innocent victims, that I had hoped it would include. But life's not perfect. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: Shakey Date: 28 Jul 05 - 10:51 AM I don't think you're a bastard, Shakey. Keep it to yourself or they'll move me to the music section. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: Shakey Date: 28 Jul 05 - 10:54 AM Curious, I quoted a whole sentence. I'm not going through it all again. Who does? What's the friggin point. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill Date: 28 Jul 05 - 10:56 AM Keep it to yourself or they'll move me to the music section A fate worse than Death Metal ;-) Perhaps you would prefer if they hadn't had call an end to the Armed Struggle, curious? We can all wait for apologies, my good person. ... all the way back to 1604 |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: Shakey Date: 28 Jul 05 - 11:01 AM Yeah, let's not forget that bastard William, you know the guy from Normandy, who invited him here. Seriously curious, I understand what you're saying, I sympathise, but it's people hanging on to these things which is going to prevent us all moving on. You see below somebody wants an apology for something else. Take a deep breath, swallow, and be glad for some good news, god knows there's precious little about. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: Big Mick Date: 28 Jul 05 - 11:16 AM Interesting, curious, that you have noted that this statement falls short of an apology to the innocent victims of the war. Does your curiousity extend to the innocents that have fallen victim to British Security Services complicity and the ongoing violence on the part of the Protestant para's? Just curious meself, Mick |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: Shakey Date: 28 Jul 05 - 11:19 AM Let's just not go there, any of us. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain Date: 28 Jul 05 - 11:23 AM Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: ard mhacha Date: 23 Aug 05 - 07:22 AM I don`t see this news getting any prominence on the BBC main news, had this been the IRA involved in murder and secterian bombing of Protestant Churches and homes it would have been another McCartney sisters bash. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: Tiocfaidh Date: 23 Aug 05 - 11:23 AM It's because nobody really gives a damn, ard mhacha. ... as we all know. I have said it before, and I'll say it again, that your average Brit is as anti Irish as at least your average Unionist. Let us all consider, however, Governments and Assemblies formed in other political hotspots, a bit further away from our own back yard and see how they sell their processes to their General Public. Guns, folks, are never really part of the equation. Are they? The average Brit has an almost morbid fascination with wallowing in the double standard. Probably more so than your average right-wing oppressive regime anywhere else that you could mention. At least there's no such thing as your average American anymore, but at least they all have a tendency to call a spade a spade, every once in a while. Anti-Irish, and double standards. A heady mix, even in the most trying of circumstances. The media serve up rose-tinted column inches to people who just want to be re-assured that they're still the best at everything, and that they have it all sussed. No need for sunglasses. Prescription lenses will be provided (Ian Paisley) sic |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: GUEST Date: 23 Aug 05 - 11:38 AM Thankfully your 'average' Irishman isn't a murdering thug. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: Tiocfaidh Date: 23 Aug 05 - 11:42 AM Thankfully none of us are |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: Tiocfaidh Date: 23 Aug 05 - 11:47 AM Your average pillar of British Law Enforcement in the North was, however. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: GUEST Date: 23 Aug 05 - 12:18 PM Get a good grip on your ankles and try and pull yourself out of the past. You seem in dire need of a new hobby. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: ard mhacha Date: 23 Aug 05 - 12:23 PM I see they are still executing people in England, Guest be thankful you are not an innocent boy from Brazil. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: Tiocfaidh Date: 23 Aug 05 - 12:25 PM Typical reply of a person who has its' head buried up its' arse. ... has to be a reader of 'The Sun'... My hobby is to try and get people like you to abandon their double standards and to call for that 'Justice' that you seem to be very proud of. Mail early and mail often, Guest. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: GUEST Date: 23 Aug 05 - 01:55 PM Watercolours are relaxing. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: Divis Sweeney Date: 23 Aug 05 - 02:18 PM Tiocfaidh and ard, Thank-you. E |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill Date: 23 Aug 05 - 06:31 PM Watercolours are relaxing, eh? Well all I can say that it is very well for those Guests, who on one hand can invite us to get a good grip of our ankles for some odd reason, and who on the other hand advocate against doing precisely that. By your postings you prove yourself to be one of the ruminants Tiocfaidh has described your type as being. Your country is falling down around your ears, but you don't notice, because your ears happen to be attached to the side of your head. ... which in its turn is buried up your arse. I love idiots like you who avoid the issue, even with blank Guest posting status. You show your bigotry well ... without actually realising you're exuding it, yourselves. Riddle me this, tho... Why does a red cow give white milk, when it only eats green grass? ... feckin' eejit |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill Date: 23 Aug 05 - 06:32 PM What are ye? You're a feckin' eejit! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill Date: 23 Aug 05 - 09:37 PM What isn't in the news these days |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill Date: 25 Aug 05 - 04:15 PM "... PSNI's credibility currently in greatest danger of imploding." I am AMAZED at the apathy shown on this board by so-called 'average English people' |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: Tiocfaidh Date: 26 Aug 05 - 02:59 AM Sinn Féin calls for Unionist Parties to use their influence.... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: Dave the Gnome Date: 26 Aug 05 - 04:56 AM that your average Brit is as anti Irish as at least your average Unionist. The average Brit has an almost morbid fascination with wallowing in the double standard I have never seen any evidence of this. I am however willing to be educated. I suspect that the above statement is a knee jerk reation and for that, Tiocfaidh, I don't blame you at all. I occasionaly see the crap printed in the press and the bias shown on the news and shake my head in wonder at who believes it. I occasionaly have bouts of serious depression when I see the idiots spouting their anti [enter your own race/religion] hate on my TV screen. Before I tar everyone else with the same brush though I stop to think about all the people I know. The sensitive and tolerant. The helpful and patient. The thoughtful and intelligent. And I realise that the idiots only make the news because they are in the minority. They are the unusual. They are NOT the average Brit. Saying the average [anyone] is such and such is stereotyping. You may as well say the average Moslem is a terrorist. The average Jew is greedy. The average black is a rapist. Or the average Irishman is thick! I don't think anyone in their right mind feels that these statements would be acceptable nowadays. They are simply untrue. If you can show me evidence that the 'average Brit' has any particular trait I am more than willing to stand corrected. If you can tell me what an 'average Brit' is I will be happy to perform the survey myself! If you change your sweeping statement to the 'average British politician' I may, just may, be tempted to agree. Until then I will feel very uncomfortable that you consider me, my family and all my friends to be enemies. Cheers Dave the Gnome. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain Date: 26 Aug 05 - 05:08 AM Tír Chonaill said it in H3 headings, Dave. ... and we have been through this before. If the Mudcat Café is a microcosm of society (it's a cross-section of something anyway...), then the general (average) British contributor, doesn't give two f***s about the double standard. He doesn't seem to give a whole heap more in letters he writes to the editors of National newspapers, good old average British reader doesn't. And not once have I heard him/her stand up in the Commons and relay the concerns of his/her constituents..., the indominitable average British voter. You don't seem to be 'average', Dave. You have no need to try and defend them |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: The Curator Date: 26 Aug 05 - 05:47 AM Loyalists have so many issues running through their ranks at the moment there is no way their weapons will be off the streets in the near future. There is an all out war to crush the LVF at present in Belfast,Lurgan and Portadown. The UVF are handling it, but the UDA are seeing their drug routes becoming the attention of the PSNI so they are now at odds with the UVF over it. This is going to get worse,no doubt about that, and within the UVF there is a leadership battle going on at present as well. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: Dave the Gnome Date: 26 Aug 05 - 06:20 AM I'm not defending anyone, Tír Eoghain (Sorry - can't do squiggly things:-( ). Just want to make the point that stereotyping doesn't help anyone. Just the opposite. The Jews were stereotyped in Nazi Germany. The Blacks were stereotyped in South Africa. The Irish are stereotyped by a certain type of British 'comedian' (and I use the term loosely!) You do make a very interesting point indeed though when you say the Mudcat cafe is a micrososm of society. I can certainly agree to that. That now being agreed on we need to take a view on what the average mudcatter is. Demographicaly I guess the average 'catter is half male, half female? Half English, Half American with a smattering of Irish, Scottish and Welsh?A good lump of Antipodean and a smidgeon of the generic European? If we now relate that back to my original point is it fair to say that the average Mudcatter doesn't give two f***s about double standards? I think not. I know your term was that the general (average) British contributor, doesn't give etc. but I see very little evidence of this. Again I am willing to be educated. Has anyone done a study to determine if one section of the 'cat cares more about standards than another? Too difficult for me I am afraid but bring on the facts and I am more than willing to listen. I am honestly not defending anyone. Just wondering how the perception of the 'average' anything arises. Completely co-incidentaly I have started playing a silly on-line game - Jennifer Government. It's creator, Max Barry, has written a couple of books and while I was browsing though a bit of his work the other day I came across this... The first principle of marketing (okay, it's not the first, but it doesn't sound nearly as cool to say it's the third) is this: perception is reality. You see, a long time ago, some academic came up with the idea that reality doesn't actually exist. Or at least, if it does, no one can agree what it is. Because of perception. Perception is the filter through which we view the world, and most of the time it's a handy thing to have: it generalizes the world Do we all occasionaly suffer from this syndrome? ;-) Cheers DtG |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain Date: 26 Aug 05 - 06:37 AM Only if you don't recognise it, Dave, I would imagine. 'Rose-tinted glasses' is another term. I've sort've gone through the threads here, and the Irish-bashing threads (contributed to by British mudcatters) heavily outweigh the Injustice to the Irish-bashing threads, as contributed to by British mudcatters. If there are extremes, there is a median Medians are averages. And perfectly legitimate when observing trends |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: Dave the Gnome Date: 26 Aug 05 - 07:17 AM Mmmmm - OK. I'll accept that the Irish bashing threads outweigh the Injustice threads. I can't be bothered counting them and am quite happy to accept your observations here. But I don't think that means the 'average Brit' agrees. Does it? Lets put it another way. Your perception is that the British hate the Irish. Why is this? I am only guessing but would I be close if I was to say it is because all the Brits that have come to your attention have been bashing the Irish? What about all the ones that have neither bashed or supported? Surely it is the minority that do either. The vast majority, I suspect, are realy unconcerned either way. And this is not just the British. I am afraid it is simply human nature. Ok, Ok - You are going to argue that the voting populace should do something about it. Of course they should. They should also do something about world poverty. They should also do something about global pollution. And they should, of course, all do something about apathy... I think this idea that most Brits hate the Irish is, nowadays, unfounded. Not saying that it has never been so. I am sure it has. I think now though the idea of hating anyone for their race, religion or beliefs is as abhorant to most 'average Brits' as it is to me. Cheers DtG |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: Dave the Gnome Date: 26 Aug 05 - 07:26 AM BTW I know what you mean about medians and averages. I studied statistics as part of my Business Studies course many years ago. The only thing I can say is that if you lay all the statisticians in the world end to end they still wouldn't reach a sensible conclusion. Applying mathematical principles to human nature just doesn't make sense. If, as you say, the extremes produce the average then we can in all honesty prove that the average Moslem is a terrorist, the average Black is a rapist, the average Jew is greedy and the average Irishman is indeed as dense as the proverbial peat bog. Sorry, but the exteme case should never be taken into account when dealing with something as complex as the human being. Cheers DtG |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain Date: 26 Aug 05 - 07:34 AM It is interesting, though; the folk tradition. Normally it can take centuries for a song to drastically change. You can turn the line: "your average Brit is as anti Irish as at least your average Unionist" (and the average Unionist is apathetic at the very least), Dave, to rebutt as: "I think this idea that most Brits hate the Irish is, nowadays, unfounded" "Perception is the filter through which we view the world, and most of the time it's a handy thing to have" Actually it's not! In fact it's bloody dangerous most of the time... 'Facts' are reality. Marketing is geared towards people who have difficulty seeing facts, or who have difficulty in making up their minds for themselves. ;-) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain Date: 26 Aug 05 - 07:37 AM I don't say 'extremes produce the average', Dave. As a statistician, you shouldn't either. Remember that the other end of the 'Moslem/terrorist' scale is the Muslim/non-terrorist'. Where do you get that they all are? Surely that's just one extreme? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain Date: 26 Aug 05 - 07:40 AM "(and the average Unionist is apathetic at the very least)," That was not meant to be in italics.... :-( |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: GUEST Date: 26 Aug 05 - 08:31 AM If 'MAN A' expects civilised conversation/debate/input from 'MAN B'after they have been labelled, stereotyped and made assumptions of, they shouldn't misconstrue the lack of willingness of 'MAN B' to engage in the discourse as apathy. It is more likely disinterest in comunicating with 'MAN A'. hemselves. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain Date: 26 Aug 05 - 08:38 AM Pray tell me, Man C, what is the difference between 'apathy' and 'disinterest'? Labels tend to be applied after the contents are checked, and the envelope sealed |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: Dave the Gnome Date: 26 Aug 05 - 08:41 AM Hehehe - You are cheering up a slow work day no end, TE:-) I'm off in a few minutes though so may not be able to catch up till later. I did assume (remember the old makes an ASS of U and ME line?) that your average Brit is as anti Irish as at least your average Unionist did mean that the average Brit was anti Irish. If it did indeed mean that the Unionists are in fact as apathetic as rest of us Brits I apologise unreservedly. I don't think that was the original meaning though and still stick to my conviction that yer 'average Brit' (whatever that may be) is not anti Irish at all. A further apology is in order if my thought process are at fault with the phrase about medians and averages as well. I will take you though it so you can tell me where I went wrong. If there are extremes, there is a median Medians are averages. To this poor little Gnomes limited powers of reasoning this seems to mean that the extremes are to be counted in when agreeing what an average is. In this context the implication is that the majority view is tainted because more Brits bash the Irish than support them? To simplify down to simple arithmetic terms if, out of 100 people, 2 earn £1,000,000 pounds per year, one earns £100 per year (the extremes) and 97 earn £1000 a year then the average earnings are a bit over £20,000. Arithmeticaly sound but to base your economy on this would be a bit odd. Basing any average on extremes is flaky territory which is why we use weighted and normalised averages. Mind you, 94.3% of all statistics are made up on the spot anyway... ;-) And perfectly legitimate when observing trends Sounds like a justification to use this median/average when classifying the average Brit as being anti-Irish. If it isn't can you clarify just what it is you are trying to prove? Bit much for me I'm afraid! Anyroads, as I said before, must be off. This here non-average non-football supporting Brit is off to try and buy tickets for the Bolton / Blackburn game so I can take an non-average football supporting American to the game on in a couple of weeks. Don't ask... Cheers DtG |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: GUEST Date: 26 Aug 05 - 08:49 AM And then you'll get the sloppy labeller, who will slap anything on a tin, because he is either under the delusion he has the ability to guess the contents without a shake or thinks it's the easier option and requires no thought. You wouldn't buy your weekly shop from a sloppy labeller. He would hold no interest to you. A discussion is a transaction of minds. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain Date: 26 Aug 05 - 08:54 AM ... The arithmetic is sound, but using the economy is not a good example... Why not just leave it that the average earnings are a bit over £20,000? That (in relative terms) is all I'm trying to prove Anyway, it's well past my bed-time Worry, still of course, is still the major cause of statistics. Have a good weekend |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain Date: 26 Aug 05 - 08:57 AM "And then you'll get the sloppy labeller, who will slap anything on a tin, because he is either under the delusion he has the ability to guess the contents without a shake or thinks it's the easier option and requires no thought." Dave & I have already discussed marketing, Guest. You take to the idea like a fish to water, evidently. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: Paco Rabanne Date: 26 Aug 05 - 09:17 AM 299 is the new 300. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: Leadfingers Date: 26 Aug 05 - 09:43 AM Its nice to know that the American Right Wing v Liberal Bigotry is just as prevalent this side of the pond in the Loyalist/Republican bigotry !! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: Leadfingers Date: 26 Aug 05 - 09:44 AM And I will stay with 00th posts especially when they have some pertinence to the thread . |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: Dave the Gnome Date: 26 Aug 05 - 10:52 AM Eeeeeh - That was easier than I thought. My pre-conception of getting tickets for a football match were standing in the rain with a load of average football supporters, getting cans thrown at me, being jostled and having to endure a jobsworth on the ticket desk. It was rather pleasant instead with a small queue of good natured men and women, some very funny banter between Bolton and Blackburn supporters and an extemely helpful clerk on the ticket desk. Just shows how wrong you can be if you believe everything you hear about football fans. Wonder how often that mistake is made elsewhere? ;-) Anyhow... Why not just leave it that the average earnings are a bit over £20,000? Because it is a very misleading statement. It would lead anyone without inside knowledge to believe that most of the group have that ammount of money whereas in fact that is blatantly untrue. Like comparing most of the population with a minority of extremists is also a false assumption. Can we just agree that there are some people in Britain that are anti-Irish? I am happy to accept that. It is certainly true. Just like it is also true that there are some people in Britain who are willing to blow up tube trains and buses. Can we also agree that both sets of people are far from average though? Hope you rest well and awake refreshed:-) Cheers DtG |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain Date: 26 Aug 05 - 01:57 PM "Can we also agree that both sets of people are far from average though" Not if they only contribute posts like the ones above yours, Dave "Hope you rest well and awake refreshed:-)" Perfect, thanks. Ready for another shift.... |
