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BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existence
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Subject: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existance From: Coyote Breath Date: 03 Oct 02 - 12:52 AM I just came back from a wonderfully musical weekend at the 'Daniel' Boone home in Defiance, Missouri. There were many musicians there. Most were "Old Timey". Invariably, when I would ask if anyone had heard of Mudcat Cafe or visited the website I got a negative response. One or two had heard of Mudcat but hadn't visited the site. I was amazed at this since without exception these very fine musicians seemed to be the same sort of folk who I have "met" at this site. All were amazed when I described the Digital archive. I wonder how many of you have had a similar experience? I keep running into names of people I know from past "venues" at the 'cat and judging from their music the ones I meet here in Missouri should be well aquainted with mudcat. 'tis a puzzlement! CB |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existance From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 03 Oct 02 - 01:15 AM I know a fair number of people that have used the DT to find lyrics, but none of my 3D acquaintances are actually members. I've talked it up, but to no avail. Actually, I'm kinda glad 'cause I can get away with a fair amount of poetic license in anecdotes without someone yelling, "Liar, liar, pants on fire!" (This is where I would insert a smiley face or something if I were so inclined. But........ I'm not.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existance From: Joe Offer Date: 03 Oct 02 - 01:37 AM When I was at Whitby Folk Week in the UK in August, I was amazed at how well-known Mudcat was in the UK. It seems that Mudcat may have almost universal recognition among UK folkies. Not so in the U.S., but a lot of what is called "folk" in the U.S. is certainly not "traditional." And no, I don't think Mudcat really addresses the interests of bluegrass or old-timey enthusiasts, or of the singer-songwriter fans. Maybe that's just as well. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existance From: Clinton Hammond Date: 03 Oct 02 - 02:14 AM I know a few people who also have used the lyric search... But not eveyone is geek enough to wander into a Message Board and post the day away... ,-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existance From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 03 Oct 02 - 04:18 AM I know that it's hard to believe, but not everyone is on the Internet.:-) Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existance From: Nigel Parsons Date: 03 Oct 02 - 07:00 AM So spread the word! If someone asks you for a set of lyrics, don't download to MSWord or whatever (and re-format). Instead print straight from Mudcat. Thus quoting your source, and giving the web address. This way a comment you may make "I got it off Mudcat" will be reinforced by the permanent note in their songfile Nigel |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existance From: Dave Bryant Date: 03 Oct 02 - 08:34 AM Joe, I think that you may have seen a slightly distorted version of things over here in the UK on your recent trip. Quite a lot of UK 'catters tried to get to meet you while you were over. Also the festival scene tends to attract congregations of 'catters - especially the sessions. Not so many of the folkies who just support their local folk clubs tend to know about Mudcat - especially if they don't actually perform themselves. I'll probably get lots of flack for this, but I'd be very surprised if many people who are just Folk Dancers at local dance clubs would have any interest in the site. On the other hand, for many singers, especially those who are just starting out and need to build up a repertoire, Mudcat is a godsend. When people ask me for song lyrics, I often ask them if they're on the net and tell them to try mudcat.org. Only the other day, I found that a couple of Mudcat names were people who joined after I told them about it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existance From: Coyote Breath Date: 03 Oct 02 - 12:20 PM Good idea Nigel! (Gee Jerry, does that mean we ARE geeks? "BG") Maybe I'm calling them wrong to say Old Timey but in any case they sure ain't bluegrass. One fellow, who plays the "Irish" pipes, had heard of Mudcat but he thought it was UK based! Of course, with the WWW and all WHERE something originates isn't all that important. Sometimes it does seem that a great deal of what is on the forum is UK or "British" Isles oriented but if so I'm all for it. I intend an extended (one year or more) visit to England, Scotland, Wales, Cornwall, The Republic of Ireland and the North in the next year or so and except for the expression "punch the horse" I can understand most of what is said and have a grasp of venues, sessions, even people, I'd like to make contact with. I also hope to visit other European states and if I can ever afford it down below to Oz. Mudcat has proven to be the best site I have ever had the pleasure to visit and it is a pleasure. (fawn, fawn) Being retired I can spend an hour or so each day surfing the 'net and not have it cut into more "useful" time. Right after this posting I'm going out to the garage to give LULU a "makeover" for the Bikers for Babies ride on the 12th, then I'm going shopping for a cheap, used travel trailer and then a few beers at my local. Gee what a rough schedule. (sorry) Yeah Joe, I really don't like the word "folk" when talking about "our" music. Traditional sort of works, old timey sort of works string band music sort of works American music doesn't hack it because it doesn't acknowledge Native American music (unless pushed). Wasn't there a thread about this recently? CB |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existance From: Mark Clark Date: 03 Oct 02 - 01:00 PM Joe, I disagree that Mudcat doesn't address the interests of bluegrass and old-timey fans. I see quite a few of them here and the threads on those subjects always seem to attract a lot of participation. Fortunately, those same fans are usually interested in other categories as well. Personally, I have a deep appreciation (though not necessarily a deep knowledge) of many of the world's traditional forms. One of the great things about Mudcat is that it's world wide (duh). I think the singer-songwriter set is really a different group. Most of the people I know who are really into the SS deal have very little knowledge or appreciation of folk and traditional forms. It's as if the SS thing is really just a subset of pop music—a sort of not-so-pop if you will. N.B. My remark here isn't intended to diminish the artistic value of SS material, I just see it as a different sort of thing than folk music. - Mark |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existance From: artbrooks Date: 03 Oct 02 - 01:39 PM I think most of the people in our local song circle are aware of Mudcat, and use it as a lyrics source. At the same time, I'm pretty sure I'm the only active member...which may say something about their perspicacity! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existance From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 03 Oct 02 - 02:14 PM I think that, for better or worse, a lot of "folk" musicians are very chauvinistic in their musical tastes. I know bluegrassers who hate Irish music and old-time players who hate bluegrass etc. I think The Mudcat appeals to people with a more eclectic view of what "folk" music is. And it also appeals to people who don't mind side-dishes of political discussion, social commentary or inane humor thrown in with the main course of musical exploration. Not for everybody, never will be, probably wasn't meant to be. Bruce |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existance From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 03 Oct 02 - 02:56 PM I think most of the folkies in Hull know about Mudcat, I wore my Mudcat Badge to work for a few days, and it is amazing how many people in Hull use the site for finding songs, finding about sessions etc, and lots of people read the threads but never post to them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existance From: Bill D Date: 03 Oct 02 - 03:14 PM well, right here near where it all started, there are people I know who know the origins, know those involved, know what it contains.....and still do not participate. I know one who lurks, a couple who post VERY rarely, a couple who have started and stopped again....and a few who just do not bother. They are just not wired to deal with this..*shrug*...some are busy, some are shy, some have all the music & information they care to deal with! Others have said clearly that they are sure that if they tried it, they would spend too much time here and it would disrupt the rest of their lives! ....and perhaps they have a point.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existance From: Tig Date: 03 Oct 02 - 03:16 PM When we have the badge stall out at festivals in the UK we get to talk to a great many people. Quite often they have either never heard of Mudcat or have dropped in to use the digital tradition without ever considering joining - and don't realize it's FREE!!! Badger and I wear our Mudcat name badges and teeshirts and over the last few years have encouraged a lot of punters to 'Give it a try' - thus spreading the word throughout large areas of the country. Be Brave - admit to being a Mudcat yourself and others will soon follow suit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existance From: Bert Date: 03 Oct 02 - 03:16 PM ...don't think Mudcat really addresses the interests...of the singer-songwriter fans... Well That's not really true, Go and visit Aine's Mudcat Songbook and look up the Song Challenge and songwriting threads, you'll find that Mudcat is one of the finest singer-songwriter resources available. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existance From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 03 Oct 02 - 03:28 PM Bit of drift here about "Singer-songwriter". Not a term I like. I probably sing songs I've written more often than not, but I'd never in a million years use that label. Nor would I ever say I'm singing a folk song when I sing one of my own. (I just sing it, and if someone says they like it, or asks if I wrote it, I own up.) But the only musical setting I feel at home in is folk music; and the modern songs I like best tend to be by people who would see it the same way. I know what Joe Offer was meaning when he said "It seems that Mudcat may have almost universal recognition among UK folkies." I remember in a packed song session at Whitby, out in The Dolphin in Robin Hood's Bay, and he explained about him and the Mudcat when he got up to sing a song, and there was a whistle of recognition and approval through the room, most of it from people who probably never posted here. Dave probably right too - there's overlap between the different sets of folk people, but the ones who come to song sessions at festivals like Whitby are particularly likely to be aware of the Mudcat, I suspect. And there are a lot more who visit than who post. That's as well, maybe, because it could get awful crowded, if everyone chipped in all the time. I hope the upgrade is going to help us get along as it does become more crowded - more posts, more threads, longer threads. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existance From: Gloredhel Date: 03 Oct 02 - 05:29 PM Nigel-- That's certainly and excellent idea: in fact that's how I found out about Mudcat! Took song classes at a festival from Aoife Clancy and Karan Casey, and both of 'em printed out lyrics from the site. I thought, hey, might be worth looking at.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existance From: Mark Cohen Date: 04 Oct 02 - 02:30 AM I found out about it when a friend from Seattle emailed me soon after I'd put my office online, and said, "Hey, your songs are on the internet." Found the Forum, and I was hooked. Living in the middle of the Pacific Ocean you have a different sense of "community". No longer having all the incredible music and dance resources of Seattle, it felt like I'd just wandered into a song circle--with just the right mix (for me) of music, music history and legends, and breezeshooting. And I'm not even retired! Aloha, Mark |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existance From: Micca Date: 04 Oct 02 - 03:03 AM I am constantly amazed at the people I have already met in £d that are 'Catters!! My intro to the Cat was Morty turning up at Towersey a few years ago with over 20 Mudcat headed pages of " Give me that old time religion" lyrics!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existence From: Coyote Breath Date: 04 Oct 02 - 11:19 AM Now, folks, about "Punch the Horse". I'm not an animal rights person but it DOES seem a bit harsh. CB |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existence From: Willie-O Date: 04 Oct 02 - 11:46 AM Mudcat Cafe = a site for the English to incomprehensibly discuss pub sessions, for Americans to talk about American politics, and there are some Canadians there too, just trying to fit in. ...apologies to nationalities I missed! Please choose an interest! W-O |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existence From: Fingerbuster Date: 04 Oct 02 - 11:54 AM Any Latvians? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existence From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 04 Oct 02 - 12:02 PM Wot does imcobrehebsinly mean? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existence From: Jim Dixon Date: 04 Oct 02 - 02:22 PM If you want to attract more users/members of Mudcat, one way to do it would be to encourage owners of other sites to post links to Mudcat. How about this: Every time you go in search of lyrics and find them at another site, e-mail the owner of the site and thank them for making the lyrics available. Tell them that you intend to post a link to their site at Mudcat, and suggest that they might want to reciprocate. Here's an interesting exercise: use www.mudcat.org as a search argument in Google. Then you'll see this result. Follow up the links on this page to learn who mentions Mudcat, who links to Mudcat, etc. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existence From: MMario Date: 04 Oct 02 - 02:30 PM interesting - for one person Mudcat is listed under "Auto Parts and Support" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existence From: Bill D Date: 04 Oct 02 - 02:33 PM and...if you type link:http://mudcat.org/ into Google or AltaVista, you get a list of those who are linking to it,,, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existence From: wysiwyg Date: 04 Oct 02 - 02:35 PM Joe Offer-- someone steal yer cookie??!!?? *G* ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existence From: Coyote Breath Date: 04 Oct 02 - 11:29 PM OK, I get it now, it's Yank bias. We don't get to know what Punch the Horse means by ASKING, we have to wait until we are told...a sort of don't speak until spoken to? :>) CB just for that I won't tell you what "Hoosier" means in Missouri; unless you ask...? (somehow that doesn't make much sense, does it?) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existence From: Mark Cohen Date: 04 Oct 02 - 11:36 PM CB, don't you mean Indiana? Or is this East Coast kid missing something? Aloha, Mark |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existence From: Coyote Breath Date: 05 Oct 02 - 12:07 AM Nope, Mark, here in Missouri Hoosier has a completely different meaning than the same word in Indiana. Here, Hoosier is what WE call someone that's called a "redneck" elsewhere. We call a trailer with rusting cars and pickup trucks a Hoosier Nest. Why we even take a certain amount of pride in being called redneck or white trash, to us here in the "show me" state, both catagories are a cut ABOVE a Hoosier. When someone "acks ignernt" in public, we call THAT actin' Hoosiery. CB |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existence From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 05 Oct 02 - 12:17 AM I know a more than an ample cadre of ams and pros... west and east of the Mississippi.....NONE of them know or use the Mudcat.
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat, ignorance of existence From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 05 Oct 02 - 12:17 AM Hell, Mark, everybody knows what "Hoosier" means in Indiana. That's just the point. By accidentally asking what it means in Missouri CB has created the Mudcat version of a Zen koan - an enigma - a riddle that's not really meant to have an answer. Sorta like The Mudcat in a way..... What the Hell does Punch the Horse mean? Bruce |