Best tape to fix cables to guitar?

Subject: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Scrump
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 08:48 AM

I have borrowed a pickup for acoustic guitars, with a view to trying it out to decide whether to buy it or one similar to it. It is a Fishman "Rare Earth" type that fits across the sound hole, so there is no need to make any holes in the guitar for that purpose. I don't want to make any mods to the guitar itself at this stage, in case the pickup isn't to my liking. So my idea is to have the cable from the pickup (which is fairly thin, probably only a few mm diameter) emerge from the soundhole and then tape it to the outside of the guitar body to stop it getting in the way of the strings etc.

My question is, what type of tape would be best to use for this purpose? I would prefer something that wouldn't damage the guitar surface or leave a sticky mess when removed - I thought maybe masking tape (as used for decorating) would be OK, but what about duct tape or other options? I thought someone out there must have tried this and would be able to advise. It wouldn't surprise me if music shops sell a special expensive tape for this very purpose, but I haven't seen it yet.

If I do fit a pickup I'll have to think about a more permanent option, probably replacing the bottom strap button with a combined button/socket which I assume you can get (although I've not looked into this yet, so any advice on this would be good, too. Or do people not recommend this, and is it better to have a separate socket away from the strap button?)

Any thoughts would be welcome.

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Grab
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 09:04 AM

Masking tape leaves a residue behind if you keep it in place for more than a day. And some cheaper tapes just leave glue behind anyway.

Blue-tack or similar stuff might be one of your best options, because you can always shift that. Just make sure that it's stuck to a varnished area, because it leaves grease spots (and occasionally bits of itself) behind if you stick it to unfinished wood. If there's a plastic pickguard you can stick it to, so much the better.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Nick
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 09:14 AM

I use a Fishman pickup (cheaper version than yours) which I attach across the soundhole. The lead just drapes out of it but I've never found it gets in the way of the strings at all so haven't bother taping it to the guitar. I guess that the lead might smack against the guitar but I haven't found it so.

(As an aside and irrelevance: I sometimes leave the pickup on and put the lead inside. When I take the pickup off and pull the lead out it occasionally makes a delightful bowed sound on the top string as it comes out. Sad perhaps but simple things etc )

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 11:40 AM

Replace the endpin in the guitar with one that is also a jack that will accept an 8th" plug inside... that way you can swap out pickups, plug into them effectively, and you won't look like a goober, putting tape on your guitar

"The lead just drapes out"
That looks about as amateur and sad as taping the lead down.....

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 11:42 AM

Bluetack!

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 11:57 AM

You need a bit of elastic, with a soft plastic hook on both ends. Run it from the TOP side of the soundhole to the middle of the back, and hook it on to the pickup lead there, then run the pickpup lead down the back of the guitar and twine it round the endpin inside the strap. As neat as it gets without ANY drilling of the guitar. Once decision made, then go endpin as CH says, but some pickup systems (including B-Band) are not usable with an existing endpin with a mini-jack inside, because the pre-amps are mounted on the inside of the endpin.

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Nick
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 11:59 AM

>>"The lead just drapes out"
That looks about as amateur and sad as taping the lead down.....

But I am an amateur, Clinton. And my other guitar has a replaced endpin.

It wasn't the question that was asked though - "If I do fit a pickup I'll have to think about a more permanent option" - suggested to me he was wondering how to work with the pick up while he was trialling it

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 11:59 AM

So you swap out the end pin...

It's not rocket surgery.....

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Scrump
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 12:11 PM

Thanks for the replies so far.

I wasn't thinking of this being a permanent arrangement, so the question of it looking amateur doesn't bother me (I'm more or less amateur anyway, if you regard being 'professional' as equivalent to 'making a profit' ;-)).

I just don't want to make any mods to the guitar until I've decided whether I want this type of pickup or not, hence the temporary arrangement of the cable trailing out of the soundhole. Maybe I won't need the cable to be taped or anything, but I thought it would be safer and avoid it fouling the strings or getting in the way of playing.

Yes, I have a pickguard so that's a good point Grab/Graham. I can probably use any kind of tape on that without worrying too much.

As for the question of the preamps (raised by Richard B), this pickup has everything in the unit (one thing I like about it), so an ordinary jack socket would be fine AFAICT.

Maybe not "rocket surgery" to you Clinton, but I've never done it before. It looks easy but experience has taught me that things that look easy often aren't ;-)

Anyway, as usual, lots of helpful responses and quickly too - many thanks to you Mudcatters.

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 12:17 PM

"if you regard being 'professional'"
Professional doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the amount of $$ you make... it's an attitude... part of such is doing the best you can while looking your best.....

"but I've never done it before"
I'm not suggesting you install the endpin jack yourself.... take it to a trained technician....

"things that look easy often aren't"
That's just a matter of experience
:-)

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Nick
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 12:27 PM

I fitted the endpin attachment on my other guitar by myself having borrowed a suitable drill bit from a joiner but it was a horribly scary experience just in case I split the guitar (I didn't but... )

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: chrisgl
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 12:56 PM

If you are going down the duct tape route, you should actually use gaffer tape, oh so similar visually but, as I understand, a different glue formulation supposed to stick but not damage. Duct tape needs to be able to stick to a duct long term, gaffer for the duration of a concert or two.


chris :-)

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 12:59 PM

Any contractor worth his salt will tell you to NEVER use "Duct Tape" on duct work....

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 01:16 PM

If you're gong down the Duct tape route, don't! If you want tape one thing to another on a tempory basis, without leaving residue or damaging stuff, use good electrical tape.

Duct tape and gaffer tape are chalk and cheese. Mixing them up is often not good.

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 02:58 PM

RB -

You need a bit of elastic, with a soft plastic hook on both ends.

Isn't that what's called a bungee cord? (The other duct tape.)

Elastic (elastomeric) materials generally are hazardous to hardware, since nearly all of the common ones contain and exude sulphur and other corrosives. Short time uses in a situation like this might be ok, but the "emissions" spike rapidly when the rubber starts to fail, so a forgotton bit left too long where it shouldn't be can be quite harmful.

The paint department at your local hardware or lumberyard or (if you sneak in at night so your friends won't see you) even at Walmart has a variety of masking tapes, probably including the Scotch® low-tack variety that is intended for use where your masking tape must be left in place for more than the usual 24 hours. This stuff is specifically represented as leaving no adhesive residue on the surface when it's removed, and my limited use indicates that it pretty much works as represented. It's commonly available only in rather "bold" colors, so you're unlikely to find it in a color you'd want to display too prominently, and since it's a "low tack" it's holding strength is pretty low. (Left in place longer than usual on a wall it usually falls off under its own weight after a couple of weeks.)

If you're concerned about leaving a residue I'd recommend NOT USING ELECTRICAL TAPE of any kind. The adhesives on these tapes contain high levels of plasticizers so that adhesion is maintained when the wire flexes, and the residue that they leave when removed usually is "oily" and much more difficult to remove fully than even duct tape or masking tape residue.

Installing a "jack in button" with an internal jack so that you can swap pickups would be the preference if you expect to try out more than one or two different internal devices.

Untwisting (or twisting) the lead wire intelligently often can eliminate a persistent "loopiness" so that the lead "hangs where you want it" without glue and goop, at least long enough for an evaluation of a temporary device. Your office supply or craft store may have mini clips, clamps, and such that could be used for temporary holding. (Craft shops often have spring type clothespins as small as about 1 inch long? Your doll in the dollhouse has to be able to hang out the laundry.)

John

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 03:15 PM

The ONLY think I'd ever stick to any of my guitars is a Sabine Stick-On Tuner... and even then only for short periods of time....

Tape? On a guitar? How much more 'gutter' can you get?

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 04:21 PM

This guy plays blues?

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Scrump
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 06:48 AM

To end the speculation, I've now tried the pickup and found I didn't need to use any tape at all, so there! ;-)

The cable from the pickup when fitted was easier to route over the top of the guitar, and doesn't get in the way of my fingers or the pick. I thought it might do and that I would need to tape it in place to prevent it fouling the strings etc., but that turned out not to be necessary.

The pickup sounds OK to me through my small amp, but I'd like to hear it through a proper PA before I commit to the more permanent solution of fixing a kack socket into the guitar body.

Thanks for all the helpful advice.

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Scrump
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 12:41 PM

Oops! That should have been jack socket not kack socket. The mind boggles.

Well the j and k are next to each other, anyone could have done it ;-)

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Gary T
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 11:20 PM

For my soundhole pickup, I route the wire to the endpin and wrap it around so that it is pinched between the strap and the guitar body. Tension/slack can easily be adjusted so the wire doesn't drape unnecessarily nor pull on the pickup. From there it can be dropped to the floor, routed through your trousers belt, whatever suits.

I don't understand the suggestion to use an endpin jack. The ones I've seen require enlarging the endpin hole with a drill, which is absolutely a modification (you can't go back to a standard-sized endpin), and the OP explicitly stated he did NOT want to do any modification. Furthermore, to my knowledge each pickup would have to be wired to said jack, which means removing the strings and working through the soundhole to make the connection. Doesn't sound simple at all - am I missing something here?

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Scrump
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 05:35 AM

Yes, I was a bit concerned about the endpin socket requiring a larger hole, having looked at one now. The point of not wanting to make mods to the guitar itself is so that the pickup can be removed leaving the guitar in its virgin acoustic state. That's one reason I didn't consider fitting a pickup that required a preamp or equaliser unit (or whatever those things are called with the sliding controls) and making large holes in the side of the guitar body - once fitted there would be no going back.

Which brings me to a second question: having resolved the question of the pickup itself, the next stage would be to have some sort of external control that I could plug the pickup into, that would allow me to adjust the volume at my end. I've seen people using little boxes they plug the guitar into, mounted on the mic stand, with built in tuners - they look like a good idea to me. Any recommendations for makes/models to look at?

Thanks again for all the helpful advice - Mudcat comes up trumps again!

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 12:19 PM

Sounds to me like you're putting youself through a whole lotta BS to get a decent guitar with a decent pickup....

Go buy yourself a Seagull, with an I-beam pickup already installed and have done with it....

"No going back"
Why would you want to????   Move forward, not back....

If you want a tunder, go Boss TU2, or don't get a tuner at all....

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 05:12 PM

Scrump, when you buy a Rare Earth pickup, it comes with a jack socket which you can fit in the end block.

BTW, you don't DRILL the end block, you should use a REAMER, which is far gentler and much less likely to damage the timber. The instructions with the Rare Earth tell you all about how to do it, and what size reamer you need.

However, I personally wouldn't faff about with a Rare Earth - I've had two, one in my Lowden and one in my Martin, and they always sounded too 'electric'. Get a Highlander under-saddle transducer fitted by a good luthier/guitar tech, very powerful and a great 'acoustic' sound. IMHO!
S:0)

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Scrump
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 02:13 PM

Thanks for the replies to my last question, but in spite of the recommendations to get a different guitar, tuner, or pickup, I'd still be interested to know what those boxes are, that you plug your pickup into. If anyone can throw any light on it I'd be grateful.

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: eddie1
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 03:20 PM

Hi Scrump
What you're after is a battery-powered pre-amp. I've seen them but never used one myself. For the "ream out the end-pin socket so it will take a jack socket brigade" I got a great gadget when I lived in the US. It had a jack plug which plugged into the socket, it was slightly larger than a matchbox and had Hi, Lo and Vol sliders. Sadly, it got stolen and I can't remember the make.
Shadow Elektroakustik do almost the same thing on-line in a cable – try www.shadow-electronics.com

Eddie

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 03:35 PM

I think PUTW do a piggyback jack plug with a box on and another socket to take teh lead to teh mainmixer.

I don't like bar pickups either. Never tried a Highlander undersaddle. I-beam sound good but feed back really really easily. I quite like B-band.

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 10:08 PM

I can't make my I-beams feed back for love nor money.... And I've played some LOUD gigs....

Subject: Guitar pre-amp 'box' (was RE: Best tape to fix..)
From: Scrump
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 02:57 AM

Thanks for the further replies. I guess the ideal type of pre-amp 'box' I'm after would have:

- a switch so you can turn off the output while tuning

- a built in tuner (I already have a separate tuner thanks, but it would be good to have this facility during a set so you don't have to mess around with a separate one)

- and (not essential but could be handy) a facility to plug in headphones and listen to the guitar while tuning when fiddles, accordions etc. are playing or tuning up (I can never hear the guitar properly in these conditions)

Does such a device exist?

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 12:19 PM

If you have an electronic tuner, why do you need to hear the guitar to tune it????

I've never seen a preamp that had a built in tuner....

If you want to kill the feed while you're tuning, get a Boss TU2 peddle tuner... They're the BEST in the biz.....

It sounds to me, Scrump, like you are over-complicating things....

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Scrump
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 07:02 PM

If you have an electronic tuner, why do you need to hear the guitar to tune it????

Good question, but I nearly always have to fine tune afterwards by ear. May seem daft but I always find I have to.

I just wanted to minimise the number of gadgets I have to plug in. I figured a single box with pre-amp, on/off switch and tuner would be neater than having lots of separate pedals etc. cabled together.

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 07:19 PM

"I nearly always have to fine tune afterwards by ear."
Then you most likely have a crappy electronic tuner....

" I just wanted to minimise the number of gadgets I have to plug in"
So that way when one breaks, they all break (And they will break.. anything that gets used, wears out....all it takes is time)

Come out of your guitar into a decent preamp, and from there to a Boss TU2 peddle tuner.... when you click it to tune, it can kill the signal to the mains....

2 pieces....

easy sneazy

:-)

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Scrump
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 09:02 AM

OK, OK, I give in - you win!

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 01:19 PM

It's not a matter of winning Scrump... you asked for advice, but then when you were given it, all you did was try to point out how the advice was, in your case, wrong....

The whole reason behind asking people who know more/better than you do is that they know more/better than you do....

So I don't 'win'.... I'm trying to help YOU win!!

Subject: RE: Best tape to fix cables to guitar?
From: Scrump
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 05:54 AM

Thanks again for all the help and advice.