BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: mousethief
Date: 27 May 10 - 10:26 AM

Though admittedly he could give a master class in obscene ranting.


Huh? His course would consist entirely of "fuck off." It would be over after the first lecture, everybody could take a one-question final exam and go back to beer and random sex.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 May 10 - 11:20 AM

His course would consist entirely of "fuck off."

I shouldn't think a course would be required for most individuals, Mouse. Two words is hardly a rant - except, apparently, to The Omniscient One.

Besides, its just my homage to Cato the Elder.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: mousethief
Date: 27 May 10 - 11:29 AM

No, it's not a rant, just a barometer of your intelligence.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 May 10 - 11:43 AM

Its more an altimiter, Mouse.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: mousethief
Date: 27 May 10 - 11:56 AM

Stop digging.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 May 10 - 02:10 PM

Boy, I bet Cato never had to put up with this kind of abuse.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 May 10 - 02:13 PM

Getting back to Ethnic Studies, it's occurred to me the if these kids go into bi-lingual education classes when they first start school, they would be egregated from the rest of the school population from that point forward. The whole thing traces itself back to the horrors of illegal immigration.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: mousethief
Date: 27 May 10 - 09:40 PM

Cato could hold his own.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 May 10 - 10:31 PM

So now the poster imagines himself to be a Roman statesman.   Sure can't fault him on lack of imagination.

And, inter alia, he somehow sees desire for censorship. Perhaps he'd like to give some actual examples of this--as opposed to a desire for communication--which as the poster appears not to realize, can actually be done without gutter language. What a concept.

By the way, Greg, do you make your living in history, either writing it, teaching, or some other capacity?   Inquiring minds need to know. If so, I wonder why you can't tell the difference between a probability and a fact.   Perhaps you should consider another line of work---anything else.   

But it appears it would also have to be something with no interaction with humans.   Somewhat limits your choices.

I certainly pity anybody who comes into contact with you--since communication is another mystery to you, it appears.

Yes, friends and neighbors, it looks like yet another sinking ship to whose mast Greg has lashed his already water-logged carcass. He does pay a price for his fragile ego. But I'm sure he sees it all as worth it--as long as he can preserve his fantasy of being the only Mudcatter who has never made a mistake, thus has never had to admit error. Spending most of his time under water with the other wrecked vessels he has picked out, is, I'm sure, a small price to pay-- in his mind.

And of course he does manage to avoid the awful burden of having to think before hitting "send". Actually that seems to be the main problem--that demand is just too much of a burden for him.

The above is of course all meant constructively; no criticism is implied. Of course not.



Sorry (this is a recording):   the burden of proof is still on the poster in question--and no one else.

Maybe he can ask Cato about the proof on the 4 of Sally Hemings' children which he thinks were by Jefferson. The poster appears to have had no luck finding any proof anywhere else.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 May 10 - 10:33 PM

"...horrors of illegal immigration".   To which your solutions have been proven absurd or disastrous.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 May 10 - 11:55 PM

Here's the point, Ron. If young students entering a school environment do not speak the native language, they are then herded into bilingual education classes in which they are, in effect, segregated. So people who favor bilingual education are, by definition, segregationists.

               But it doesn't stop there. Once you have these students segregated, militant teachers can then take advantage of that situation to radicalize them at a very early age. Those teachers then have, in a sense, created an army with which to overthrow the government, all of which makes the Arizona law make so much sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 May 10 - 09:09 AM

So now the poster imagines himself to be a Roman statesman.

Simple is as simple does, I suppose. Hard to believe His Magnificence took this as a serious claim, & that engendered almost a full screen's worth of his usual spew.

But then, Simple has always been the star of a movie the script of which he wrote himself. And he apparently impresses himself mightily.

And, inter alia, he somehow sees desire for censorship....

WTF??? to paraphrase Barney Frank, what planet does Simple spend most of his time on?

Point was that he, in his Glorious Omniscience, is able to evaluate and pontificate upon the contents of books without reading them.

Enough. After careful consideration, the only appropriate response to The Simple Seeker After Truth remains:

Fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: pdq
Date: 28 May 10 - 10:52 AM

Yesterday there were 639 posts on Mudcat.

A few years ago there were usually over 900.

Seems that the off-topic crap, name-calling and personal attacks have taken their toll.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: artbrooks
Date: 28 May 10 - 11:21 AM

I find it interesting that I can be off-line for 10 days...and come back and see the same few people making the same rude comments about each other while contributing nothing additional to the topic. Have fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 May 10 - 11:33 AM

It makes it hard to contribute to the topic of the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 May 10 - 05:58 PM

So, getting back to the topic: bilingual education produces the segregation that militant Hispanic teachers need in order to radicalize the students.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 May 10 - 06:33 PM

After that idiotic statement, Rig, I think the off-topic crap, name-calling and personal attacks were preferable.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 May 10 - 07:29 PM

`What we have here is a failure to communicate.`

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 May 10 - 09:26 PM

Exactly.   Failure to even want to communicate, by Mr "Fuck Off".   At least we know what the F stands for.

Look, it's very simple.   Should even be simple enough for Mr. FO. Either you can provide proof that Jefferson had 4 childen by Sally Hemings or you cannot.

As Mousethief has noted:   "If you make a claim, it's your job to support it. It's not my job to convince myself you're right. If you can't support it I have no recourse but to think you are lying or deluded."

Gee I wonder if which one it is for Mr. FO:   lying or deluded?

Actually there's one more possibility, and it's the one I'd put my money on: he has such a fragile ego that he can't bring himself --ever--to admit he is wrong.   Again.

Which, as I've noted before, accounts for the waterlogged state of his carcass.

Once more with feeling:   the idea that Jefferson had 4 children by Sally Hemings is a matter of probability, not a fact.

And Mr FO has provided precisely zero proof that this is not so.

We're still waiting.

What's more, from the number of times he says "Fuck off" I sometimes get a inkling that he might not be happy.   Which would be a true tragedy, since as I've noted, the main purpose of Mudcat is to make him happy.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 May 10 - 09:35 PM

And to the topic--which also bears an amazing resemblance to a dead horse:    Rig, the "militant Hispanic" teachers are in your head.   And nowhere else.

But of course they will never leave--your head.   Since you want them there.

Too bad there is such a huge disconnect between your head and the real world.   Even more of a problem is that there is more than one person who shares your peculiar delusion.   And that such people vote.   That's probably the worst part.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 May 10 - 07:35 AM

Simple: Fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 May 10 - 08:43 AM

"'Rig, the "militant Hispanic" teachers are in your head.'"

            I've worked with them; they're out there. Why do you think the Arizona Legislature included language prohibiting advocating the over throw of the government. You need to visit a MEChA website, or check into the myth of Aztlan.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Ron Davies
Date: 29 May 10 - 02:57 PM

It is entirely possible that Thomas Jefferson had 4 children by Sally Hemings.   Nobody said it was not. But it is not certain-- contrary to the fondest hopes of Mr. FO, the DNA evidence is by no means conclusive in pointing to Thomas Jefferson as the father. There are counter-arguments.   It boils down, as I've said before, to a question of probability. Some historians see a high degree of probability, some a lower degree. To claim it as a proven fact shows the sloppy writing--and sloppy thinking--we've come to expect from Mr. FO--on many topics.

Particularly interesting is the fact that Mr. FO has still, despite being asked multiple times to do so, not deigned to give us any evidence beyond the singular useless bromide " DNA doesn't lie".   Nobody said it did.

As Mousethief has noted, the burden is on the person who makes the assertion--here, that Thomas Jefferson had 4 children by Sally Hemings--to give the proof.   It is not the burden of the reader to convince himself that the other person is correct.

It's true I make no claim to being a professional historian. My claim is much more modest--I'm just a better historian, by far, than Mr. FO. This is indeed no great accomplishment--even Rig, who is beset on every hand by terrible conspiracies, is willing to change his view on an issue and to consider various possible interpretations of information.

This is called learning--a process totally foreign to Mr FO.

It's also interesting that Mr. FO has not found time to tell us whether he makes his living from history or not. Heaven knows that if he does, it's a sad commentary on the profession and a good indication of why the social sciences are held in such low esteem to practitioners of the hard sciences. The social sciences are far too often represented by ideological warriors--Mr FO, to take a completely theoretical example-- who insist in squeezing history into their particular straitjacket, rather than examining all sides of an issue.


To be continued.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Ron Davies
Date: 29 May 10 - 03:05 PM

Once they have picked a certain conclusion, they consider no other hypotheses. Somebody like Mr. FO who cannot tell the difference between probability and fact is a classically wretched standard-bearer for the profession of history.

It's only too bad that pointing out his feeble grasp of the process of learning is so sinfully addictive. ( I should be not be spending time on this--but it's too much fun.)

Not that I would by any of this want to criticize him. Heaven forbid.

Since above all we want him to be happy.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Ron Davies
Date: 29 May 10 - 03:08 PM

Sure, Rig, "they're out there". Are all whites Timothy McVeigh or the Unabomber?

Smears R Us, I see, is still in business--even though the merchandise is a bit threadbare--to say the least.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Ron Davies
Date: 29 May 10 - 03:10 PM

"...low esteem by..."

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 May 10 - 04:29 PM

Man, you sure do like to hear yourself talk, dontcha, Simple! You're your own biggest fan. Rave on.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: mousethief
Date: 29 May 10 - 04:46 PM

Greg, why do you even post here? You don't seem to want to contribute to the conversation. Or you're incapable thereof and don't realize it. Is it just that you enjoy having captive victims to say "fuck off" to? Does this give you some kind of a sexual thrill that results in overconsumption of facial tissues? What's the deal?

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 May 10 - 05:58 PM

"Sure, Rig, "they're out there". Are all whites Timothy McVeigh or the Unabomber?"


                  Ron, you've made my point for me. I've said many times that most Hispanic teachers are trying to teach the course material that they were hired to teach. They're just doing their job, so to speak.

                   But there are some Hispanic Timothy McVeighs out there, and those are the ones the Arizona law is trying to contain.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 May 10 - 05:59 PM

Hullo, Mouse:

...why do you even post here? You don't seem to want to contribute to the conversation...

Try directing that question to His Eminence the Simple Seeker.

Is it just that you enjoy having captive victims...

I hardly see Simple in the role of a victim or a captive.
Quite the contrary. Nor is he plural- thank god.

Attempts at "contributing to the conversation" bring down multiple lengthly streams of diahorrhea from He Who Must Be Obeyed.

Now I think on it, aren't constantly recurring reactions way out of proportion to the stimulus involved a sign of some sort of pathology or psychosis?

Well anyway, have a nice evening.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: mousethief
Date: 29 May 10 - 11:37 PM

Now I think on it, aren't constantly recurring reactions way out of proportion to the stimulus involved a sign of some sort of pathology or psychosis?

You mean constantly recurring reactions like "Fuck you"? Yes I'd say that's a sign of some sort of pathology or psychosis. But hey I'm no shrink.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 May 10 - 09:23 AM

Hi, Mouse-

You missed a key phrase: reactions way out of proportion to the stimulus.

Considering Simple's postings, "Fuck Off" is in no way out of proportion or an over-reaction, but entirely apposite.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 May 10 - 09:25 AM

And its "Fuck Off", not "Fuck You".

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Ron Davies
Date: 30 May 10 - 10:17 AM

I note with interest that Mr. FO has addressed none of my points.   Especially the difference between probability and fact.

Situation normal.

"...classically wretched standard-bearer for the profession of history"


QED

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Ron Davies
Date: 30 May 10 - 10:25 AM

"...Hispanic Timothy McVeighs".   So therefore all whites are guilty of his crimes and should be punished?. Try following your own logic.

Since this is what you are advocating for all Hispanics by your support of these classically stupid laws in Arizona--which even the police who are to enforce them (at least the checking of citizenship documents--don't want.

And you still haven't told us why you like trial lawyers so much--since in the cases of both laws the courts will be tied up with pointless trials for a long time.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 May 10 - 10:36 AM

Not so, Oh Omniscient Simple Seeker!

I'm simply waiting for you to produce evidence and references for your OWN points and assertions- which you have so far failed to do.

Of course, you're exempt from your own rules & strictures...

The old Seeker Bait-And-Switch, as per expectations.

Fuck Off.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 May 10 - 10:41 AM

For Mouse's Benefit:

fuck off vb: To leave, go away. A vulgarism that is used in regular verb forms and as an interjection. See also sod off, piss off, bugger off.
Thorne, Dictionary of Contemporary Slang.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Ron Davies
Date: 30 May 10 - 10:47 AM

Greg still has that problem with reading. Poor boy. The person who makes the assertion has the burden of proof--as Mouse and I have said more than once.

That would be you, Greg, dear boy.

Sure hope the world starts treating you better soon.   You really don't always sound happy.

Tenure problem, perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 May 10 - 11:08 AM

As I suspected, Oh Simple Seeker! The rules are for others only, not your own exalted self.

So, Fuck off.

Oh, excuse me- your virgin ears-

Bugger off.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 May 10 - 11:12 AM

General Query:

Anyone know which Jesuit educational institutions Simple Seeker attenced?

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Ron Davies
Date: 30 May 10 - 12:08 PM

Jesuit?    That's interesting.   And that theory is based on what, pray tell?    Jesuits are not the only ones interested in logic.

But, as a beloved sage likes to say: "Rave on."


Actually, as I noted earlier, I think we have a wonderful division of labor.   Mr FO wallows in the gutter and I look down and comment.   Works for me.

In fact, we both seem to really like our respective roles.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 May 10 - 12:30 PM

You measn you developed your line of Jesuitical bullshit all by yourself without any format training, Simple? Fascinating.

Now about those proofs and documentation for your assertions?

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 May 10 - 01:11 PM

Two inconsiderate -------- using up mudcat disc space for no purpose.

"Jesuitical bullshit" Time to close this stupid thread, Joe.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Ron Davies
Date: 30 May 10 - 01:48 PM

Q--, as far as I know you can always choose not to read it.   But perhaps somebody is forcing you to do so.

Mr. FO--if you by some chance don't enjoy my looking down at you, you could always try hauling yourself out of the gutter.   Unless it's too much effort or goes against the essence of your being.

And if we're going to speculate, let's pursue the tenure theory a bit.    Say for instance, Mr. FO was an assistant professor at a small college, never did get tenure, and has been bitter at historians--and anybody who asks for logic and proof--ever since.

Just a theory.   To go with the "Jesuit" theory.





Not that I would argue with the idea that this thread is played out.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: mousethief
Date: 30 May 10 - 02:59 PM

"Fuck off" (which I already knew the definition of, but thanks for the condescending and snide "help" -- not at all unexpected from someone like you) is always an overreaction.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 May 10 - 06:19 PM

"Fuck off"... is always an overreaction.

We'll just have to disagree on that, Mouse.

...someone like you...

By all means, pray elaborate.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 May 10 - 06:22 PM

So Simple, when will we see documantation and quotations in support of your myriad theories & asssertions?

Would also be interested in your analyses and refutations of the unsubstantiated theories of gravity and evolution, for a start.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 May 10 - 06:24 PM

Oh, and Mouse- I don't doubt that Simple is grateful for your spitited defense of him.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 May 10 - 06:25 PM

Hey, I think I'm starting to get the hang of Simple's serial posting style! Of course I can't match him in volume yet. Someting to aspire to.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law targeting ethnic studies
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 May 10 - 06:57 PM

I'll just step in right here: 300.