BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Nov 25 - 12:31 PM

"Initially the Reform UK party was a limited company (the Reform UK Party Limited)[297] with fifteen shares. Farage owned 53% of the shares in the company, giving him a controlling majority. The other shareholders were Tice, who holds about a third, and Chief Executive Paul Oakden and Party Treasurer Mehrtash A'Zami who each held less than seven percent.[297] In August 2024 Paul Oakden was removed and Farage took over his shares, giving him 60% ownership.[298] As of 2025, ownership of the party was transferred from Farage to a new business legally constituted as Reform 2025 Limited, a company limited by guarantee, replacing the original company which was controlled by Farage as majority shareholder.[299][300] The directors and guarantors of the new company are Farage and Ziauddin Yusuf, who will effectively control the new company.[299][300][301] The business's filing stated that it had no "person with significant control".[299]
"
Farage has said the party would largely be funded by small donations and that they raised "£750,000 in donations online, all in small sums of less than £500" in their first ten days. The party also accepts large donations.[302] He further said that the party would not be taking money from the key former UKIP funder Arron Banks.[30][303] Farage personally faced questions during the 2019 electoral campaign after Channel 4 News revealed undeclared travel and accommodation benefits provided by Banks before Farage joined the Brexit Party, and on 21 May 2019 the European Parliament formally opened an investigation.[304] In response to the reporting, the Brexit Party banned Channel 4 News from its events

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Nov 25 - 12:42 PM

My apologies, Dick, I did not know that Reform's legal status had changed this year and should have looked it up. I am happy to change my statement to "I shall also continue to fight against the policies of Reform that was a PLC until earlier this year".

Now, how about you admit that Gill is not and never has been a Reform MP and apologise for refering to him as an 'ex Reform MP'?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Nov 25 - 02:15 PM

Gill was a reform MEP, not a uk MP
He was    Reform UK’s former Wales leader, and was a member of the European parliament, and he has been convicted of bribery
Former Welsh Reform leader jailed for pro-Russia bribery
1 day ago
David Deans,Wales political reporter and
Ben Summer,BBC Wales

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Nov 25 - 05:18 PM

Its quiet simple Dick, was he, as you stated, or was he not a Reform MP.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Nov 25 - 05:40 PM

I think we know the answer to that, Raggy ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 23 Nov 25 - 12:03 PM

.... What annoys me is that very few news outlets refer to the offending party as anything other than "Reform UK" or "Reform 2025". For some reason, they never seem to append "Ltd" to either form. Is there a superinjunction in operation?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Nov 25 - 01:17 PM

"From: The Sandman - PM
Date: 21 Nov 25 - 05:01 PM
He was a member of the european parliament, i have provided ypu with facts, unles you apoligize for your boorish rude post , it will look like you are an apologist for Gill and reform."
No, your initial post said: ex Reform MP Sentenced for bribery link to Guardian

Nathan Gill has never been an MP.
That is the 'crap' that I was calling out.

Would you care to reconsider?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Nov 25 - 01:27 PM

Sandman: Gill was a reform MEP, not a uk MP
According to the website of the European Parliament (whose information I would trust above that of the Guardian)
Nathan Gill was an MEP for the Brexit Party.
Here
So you still seem to be getting it wrong.

You have called for me to apologise for being factual. Are you going to apologise for being false?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Nov 25 - 05:26 PM

I am somewhat surprised to find myself in the same camp as Nigel as our politics are diametrically opposed.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Nov 25 - 10:41 AM

Raggy:
Not totally. I think we both want what is best for the country, and its people.
We just disagree about who is most likely to provide that.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Nov 25 - 09:31 AM

Certainly not Reform, or The Conservatives

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Nov 25 - 02:50 AM

The conviction of Gill for taking btibes., illustrates the need for INVESTIGATION OF REFORM RUSSIA LINKS.
Nathan Lee Gill (born 6 July 1973) is a British former politician who served as the Leader of Reform UK Wales from March to May 2021 and UKIP in Wales from 2014 to 2016. He previously served as Member of the European Parliament (MEP) for Wales from 2014 to January 2020[3] as well as a Member of the National Assembly for Wales from May 2016 to December 2017.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Nov 25 - 08:22 PM

It now appears that the chancellor (Rachel Reeves) lied about a £30 billion 'black hole' in the UK's finances.
And that Keir Starmer was aware of the claim, and that it was a false claim.
Will any of the left-wingers here support the actions of these two?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Dec 25 - 03:39 AM

Well, I am not particularly left wing Nigel but I would support a probe into the allegations. As far as I can see she is denying it and until the ethics committee find the truth there is no point speculating. If it is proven that she purposely misled the country then she should be treated in the same way as the proven liars that have plagued our land since the Brexit campaign. With disdain.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Dec 25 - 05:41 AM

"It now appears that the chancellor (Rachel Reeves) lied about a £30 billion 'black hole' in the UK's finances."

I am a little surprised by this, if the claim was untrue why on earth did the conservatives not make a huge fuss about it when it was first stated there was black hole in July 2024, why has it taken 18 months for them to realise.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Dec 25 - 11:37 AM

"I am a little surprised by this, if the claim was untrue why on earth did the conservatives not make a huge fuss about it when it was first stated there was black hole in July 2024, why has it taken 18 months for them to realise."

That black hole was (supposedly) dealt with in the 2024 budget. This claimed 30 billion black hole was a new one (based on Labour policies, not Conservative)
But it seems to have disappeared between Rachel Reeves discussing it as a reason that the whole country might have to tighten their belts, and the budget a few weeks later.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Dec 25 - 12:14 PM

As a Right-Winger, what do you think should happen to her, Nigel?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Dec 25 - 01:53 PM

Here’s Jack Dart’s view of Reeves’ budget and the furore that followed. FWIW, and as someone who considers his views slightly Left-of-Centre, I completely agree with him…

”The reaction to Rachel Reeves’s Budget has been vicious. Since Wednesday, right-wing papers have hurled accusations of deceit, betrayal and incompetence at her, with front pages screaming about “tax bombs” and “Budget lies” and columns insisting she should be driven out of office. The Sun is already pushing polls on whether she should be sacked and calling this the worst Budget in living memory, while the Mail paints a picture of hard-working families crushed so she can splurge on benefits. The tone is not serious economic criticism. It looks like a campaign to topple a Chancellor they never wanted and to poison any Labour attempt to repair the damage they helped create.

These same papers behaved very differently when Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng blew a hole in the public finances. Truss’s mini-Budget was a package of unfunded tax cuts tilted towards higher earners and big business, the kind of experiment any responsible outlet should have treated with deep scepticism. Instead, the Mail splashed “At last! A true Tory Budget” and praised its supposed boldness, while the Sun celebrated a tax-cut “bonanza” that would shower people with extra cash. Then the markets went into freefall, the pound slumped, the Bank of England had to step in to stop pension funds collapsing and mortgage costs spiked for millions. Only at that point did those cheerleaders start to edge away from the wreckage and reinvent themselves as stern critics.

Reeves’s Budget is painful and flawed, but it is nothing like that kamikaze experiment. Her plan raises roughly twenty-odd billion a year in extra tax, mostly from employers and better-off households, and directs some of that money into lifting the two-child cap and shoring up services. The OBR has signed off the numbers. There is a real argument about whether the balance is right, whether the focus on “stability” goes too far, whether more ambitious investment is needed. Instead of engaging with those choices, the right-wing press has jumped straight to branding her a liar, insisting the “black hole” was fabricated and treating every line in the Red Book as proof of moral failure.

What they never acknowledge is their own role in the mess people are living through now. They cheered on austerity, cheered on Brexit, cheered on Truss’s fantasy Budget, and every one of those choices has fed into the weak growth, higher borrowing costs and threadbare services that Reeves is now trying to navigate. When they howl about “tax raids” they rarely mention the mortgage chaos their preferred policies caused, or the hit to pensions and wages from the economic shocks they backed. Their fury at Reeves is about stopping a Labour Chancellor from proving that you can ask those with broader shoulders to contribute more, scrap a cruel policy like the two-child cap, and still keep the markets calm.

We should be tough on this Budget. We should keep asking who pays, who gains and whether the plan matches the scale of the crisis. What we should refuse to do is let the same newspapers that applauded the Truss disaster pose as guardians of responsibility while they try to drag Reeves down. They are defending an ideological project, not your living standards, and their record tells you exactly how much their judgement is worth.”

Here’s a link to Jack Dart’s original FB piece for the Non-Facebook-phobic.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Dec 25 - 02:45 AM

”FWIW, and as someone who considers his views slightly Left-of-Centre, I completely agree with him…”

Should have been…

“…as someone who considers his OWN views…”

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Dec 25 - 08:03 AM

As a Right-Winger, what do you think should happen to her, Nigel?

I think it should be investigated whether she has deliberately misled parliament (or the country).
I am not calling for her to be sacked, but that might be the outcome of an investigation.

The head of the OBR has already resigned for the early leak of the Budget. But Reeves had already been leaking parts for weeks (assuming that the details which found their way into the public arena were based on her comments).

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Dec 25 - 08:46 AM

It would seem to me that leaks have become over the past 30 years or so to be a feature of government of all parties. Something along the lines of lets leak this bit see what the response is and then proceed to leak a bit more and again see what the response is.

I am old enough to remember when the Chancellor would leave Downing Street waving the red box and nobody had a inkling of what they were going to put forward

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Dec 25 - 09:14 AM

I think it should be investigated whether she has deliberately misled parliament (or the country).

I agree entirely, Nigel and said as much in answer to your initial post on the subject. Talking of the initial post however I did look back to what you said -

"It now appears that the chancellor (Rachel Reeves) lied about a £30 billion 'black hole' in the UK's finances.
And that Keir Starmer was aware of the claim, and that it was a false claim."

That is a far cry from "I think it should be investigated" and seems to have been lifted directly from either the Stun or the Daily Heil. We have enough misinformation to handle without adding our own and it does not become anyone on here to use gutter press tactics. IMO that is.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Dec 25 - 10:10 AM

AFAIAA (and i've searched quite diligently!), there is no Parliamentary rule which precludes a Chancellor from releasing Budget details pre-Budget day. There is, however, a well-established convention that contents of the budget should be withheld until the Budget speech.

So it would appear that, no matter how much the Right-wing Rage-Bait Rags may wish it, Reeves is not guilty of breaking the rules over the 'leaks' (and, if she had, a number of previous Chancellors, somre of them Tories, must have been guilty of exactly the same kind of transgression).

The 'Lying to Parliament' question remains but, again, there have been many MPs, including leading Tories, who have been economical with the truth in the past and got away with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Dec 25 - 10:11 AM

See how i got the latest 'Word of the Year' in there! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Rain Dog
Date: 02 Dec 25 - 10:36 AM

I despair at the current situation of politics here in the UK and throughout the world.

I live in a country which has had a mixture of left and right governments. I have spent my life working for private enterprise businesses. This is the country we live in. When will the major political parties ever acknowledge this fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Dec 25 - 02:03 PM

The media is definitely out to get Reeves. The latest is that she was not a junior chess champion at the age of 14...

The right wing rags are becoming a parody of themselves and Badenuf is clutching at straws following their feigned outrage

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Dec 25 - 06:53 AM

Backwoodsman:
I sense a contradiction in those two statements: there is no Parliamentary rule which precludes a Chancellor from releasing Budget details pre-Budget day. There is, however, a well-established convention that contents of the budget should be withheld until the Budget speech.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Dec 25 - 07:18 AM

It took you a long time to pick that little nit, Nige. You must be losing your touch!

I think you know, as well as I do, that a ‘rule’ is an official instruction, whereas a ‘convention’ is an unofficial, but generally accepted, practice. No contradiction at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Dec 25 - 03:36 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXPTKcLRqSU&t=167s link to george galloway, about being detained by police, so much for free speech

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Dec 25 - 08:16 AM

If anyone can sit through 30 minutes of George Galloway's showboating, they are welcome to view the video. Imanaged 2 minutes. I can no longer stand the bloke. Him and Farage have become two cheeks of the same arse

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Dec 25 - 09:47 AM

George Galloway is not anti semitic.
Everyone is welcome to have different opinions , and we do not have to have the same opinion as you, if you listened you would hear that he is talking about the right to freedom of speech.
Fact one,Farage is anti semtic,Galloway is not, that makes them different.Respect Party MP awarded £15,000 for radio station's anti-Semitic slur

George Galloway MP was today awarded £15,000 in libel damages by Mr Justice Eady in respect of a broadcast on a local and internet radio station which alleged that he held anti-Semitic views.



Jcom Radio, a Jewish community radio station available over the internet and at the relevant time also on FM in North West London, had broadcast a programme that twice featured a fictitious Middle Eastern correspondent named ‘Georgie Galloway’, whose only words were “Kill the Jews!”



Mr Galloway brought proceedings for libel. The Defendant admitted the claim in full and today’s hearing was convened to determine the appropriate sum Mr Galloway should be awarded by way of damages.



Whilst noting that the feature was clearly intended as a spoof, Mr Justice Eady held that it bore the seriously defamatory allegation that Mr Galloway held anti-Semitic views, an allegation that was totally without foundation. Considering the context of the broadcast and the relatively small scale of publication, and giving the Defendant significant credit for an apology made on its website, Mr Justice Eady awarded Mr Galloway £15,000 in damages.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Dec 25 - 11:05 AM

But I didn't even mention antisemitism. That is about the best example of a straw man argument I have ever seen!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Dec 25 - 05:05 PM

Good to see an unprejudiced approach, openmindedness,
so how are farage and galloway the same?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Dec 25 - 05:25 PM

Could I suggest they are both so far up their anal orifices that they clean their teeth from the inside.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Dec 25 - 03:02 AM

That's just one of the similarities, Raggy ;-)

Politicians
Outspoken
Charismatic
Showmen
Extremists
Attention seekers

Need I go on?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Dec 25 - 04:41 AM

The only way thing they have in common is that they both they wanted to leave Europe.
That doe not make them the same, thAt is rather like saying stalin and churchill were the same because they were against Hitler. what an idiotic thing to say.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Dec 25 - 05:03 AM

It is undemocratic to detain Galloway and prevent him leaving the country because of his political views, if you bothered to listen to the clip this is what happened.
However you are clearly prejudiced so have not listened to the clip.You sound to me like a blair supporter , Blair the man who made up claims about iraq having weapons of mass destruction

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Dec 25 - 05:16 AM

its about time the railways were nationalised, and the water companies, these are policies that Gallowayb advocates and Corbyn ,I agree with them.
Did you read about the recent water problem in Tunbridge wells recently
Tunbridge Wells experienced a major water contamination crisis in early December 2025
, leading to a "boil water" notice for thousands due to a quality issue at the Pembury Treatment Works, impacting supply for days, causing business losses, and prompting public outcry and demands for SEW CEO resignation, though water is now safe after repairs and investigations continue into the causes and handling

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Dec 25 - 05:45 AM

From: Raggytash - PM
Date: 12 Dec 25 - 05:25 PM

Could I suggest they are both so far up their anal orifices that they clean their teeth from the inside.

From: Dave the Gnome - PM
Date: 13 Dec 25 - 03:02 AM

That's just one of the similarities, Raggy ;-)

Politicians
Outspoken
Charismatic
Showmen
Extremists
Attention seekers

Need I go on?

From: The Sandman - PM
Date: 13 Dec 25 - 04:41 AM

The only way thing they have in common is that they both they wanted to leave Europe.

Thanks for adding that one Dick. That makes 8 pretty major things that they have in common so far and I am sure that there are many more. As to comparisons between war time leaders, I would say more like Hitler and Stalin.

No I didn't watch the clip. I know enough about Galloway (and Farage) to understand that spending any time listening to self=serving attention seekers is a waste of my valuable time. Nothing to do with predjudice.

I know that detention for political views is an undemocratic thing without suffering through the whines of extremist politicians.

You feel free to watch as many of his videos as you like and then watch some right wing ones for comparison. But don't expect others to have the same masochistic tendancies.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Dec 25 - 10:27 AM

Y bet you support that pathetic politician, Starmer, that is a masochistic tendency if i ever i heard of one. Starmer is an establishment conservative dressed up in labour clothes, Starmer is a self serving politician if ever i saw one and an attention seeker and an incompetent, his attack pn Farage achieved only one thing a lot of people joining Farages party,

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Dec 25 - 10:49 AM

Deflection and straw man yet again, Dick. Starmer has not been mentioned by anyone apart from you. However, I know that you are a gambling man so I am more than willing to take your bet. How much are you laying down?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Dec 25 - 11:45 AM

If you want to rejoin Europe ypu would be better off voting for the liberals, Their domestic polIcy is centrist, as are the liberals. Starmer is an incompetent and a clueless politician.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Dec 25 - 11:51 AM

Starmers party is in effect the liberal party except on the european issue of the uk rejoining europe

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Dec 25 - 12:30 PM

No bet then, Dick? :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Dec 25 - 12:48 PM

" Starmer is an establishment conservative dressed up in labour clothes, Starmer is a self serving politician if ever i saw one"

Is it possible to be "self-serving" AND be an "establishment conservative"?

Surely if you are an establishment conservative you cater to their need not necessarily your own which you would if you were self serving.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Dec 25 - 01:46 PM

Don't confuse the poor lad with logic, Raggy.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Dec 25 - 05:24 PM

why do you not vote liberal if you want to rejoin Europe?
Starmer is a self serving, career politician.
Dave, your post is patronising.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Dec 25 - 06:40 PM

1. How I vote is none of your business

2. Yes

3. It is supposed to be but thanks for noticing.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Dec 25 - 12:35 AM

Don’t feed the troll…

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Dec 25 - 02:11 AM

you should vote liberal. if you want to rejoin Europe.
I live in a country that is in Europe. Being patronising is breaking mudcat rules