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BS: The smoking ban & pubs
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: GUEST,Guest Date: 22 Mar 08 - 05:29 AM Ol' Smokey, Did you not realise that nobody else here is allowed an opinion only the Backwardone ? Yeah it's the bible according to him all the way here. A legend in his own lunchtime. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: Backwoodsman Date: 22 Mar 08 - 06:48 AM Dickhead. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: GUEST,guest Date: 22 Mar 08 - 07:25 AM Definition from Dictionary.com "backwoodsman" A person of uncouth manners, rustic behaviour or speech. Now how do I not find this surprising ! Very apt. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: Dave the Gnome Date: 22 Mar 08 - 09:03 AM Find yourself another good cause, this one's finished Agreed as well. But it is skipy that keeps starting these threads - tell him!!! D. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: Dave the Gnome Date: 22 Mar 08 - 09:05 AM Oh, and I forgot, skipy - you still haven't answered my qusetion. Has your local closed? D. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 22 Mar 08 - 10:32 AM And don't confuse that "GUEST, guest" with the other one who is worth arguing with (even though I disagree with her). Pretty bad manners to use someone else's label. Even when it's a sill;y label like "guest". |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: Backwoodsman Date: 22 Mar 08 - 10:45 AM "A person of uncouth manners, rustic behaviour or speech. Now how do I not find this surprising ! Very apt." Flaming and trolling, especially by anonymous 'Guests' are very childish behaviour indeed. Grow up Gi-Gi, and get a life, you sad little no-dick. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey Date: 22 Mar 08 - 01:52 PM For what it's worth (not much, apparently) I thought Skipy's original point about pub closures and falling business was a perfectly valid one and is glaringly obvious to anyone who regularly does gigs in pubs. As I said before, and it's still just as true, despite the opinion of Backdoorman and his ilk, the ban is not only the last nail in the coffin (albeit not the sole cause) for smaller 'community' type pubs, it has already had a marked effect on the number of available pub gigs for musicians working at the lower end of the market - whether or not they are smokers and regardless of their opinion on it. Any band playing in a pub has to generate enough extra sales for it to be worth the landlord paying them, and in many pubs the goalposts have now moved that bit too much. None of this bothers the brewers of course, they no longer own the majority of pubs and people can and do drink far more at home - it is the entertainment business that will suffer, although hopefully it may ultimately adapt and change. Don't bother shouting me down now though, come back in a year and tell me I'm wrong. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: Jim Carroll Date: 22 Mar 08 - 04:15 PM The smoking ban did not make one bit of difference to the pubs in this small community in the West of Ireland. Any closures here can be traced to an increased presence of police on the roads late at night (now spreading to mid-day the following day), thus making the rural population virtually immobile at night. If the ban does bring about closures, it will be yet another 'victory' for the smoker, sulking at home because he can't manage without his fix for the couple of hours necessary to let drinkers drink in an unpolluted atmosphere. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: Big Mick Date: 22 Mar 08 - 04:41 PM OK, I guess some of you just weren't satisfied with the last thread that hashed this to death a few months ago. You just have a need for abuse. So let's go. First off, with regard to smokers rights. You have none where it concerns my health, got it. I am not doing anything, it is your action in smoking that is threat to me. Hence, you have no right to poison me. And it is poison. Those that act like second hand smoke is not dangerous to folks are akin to the Holocaust deny'ers. You are wrong, period. Just go back and read the links in earlier posts. As to me leaving if I don't like your smoke, I refer you to my first post. It is not me that needs to leave. I am simply here, you want to take an action that poisons yourself, that is fine. But you may not poison me. I am not leaving so you can poison yourself. You leave. It is you that wants to take the action. As to pubs closing, .... bullshit. The pubs and folk clubs that would close on this basis were on the verge anyway. And if the sum total of your support for the music we all say we love is predicated on whether you can poison you and the folks around you, then we are better off without you. You are self centered with no regard for others. Please, ..... leave. We will survive. As to the lot of you that flit over to the continent, buy your poison, and have house parties, once again I say....the smoking is more important than the music. Please continue to do what you are doing. You are not missed. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey Date: 22 Mar 08 - 04:43 PM Let's all blame the police then; they've no business harrassing innocent drinkers like that, it's an infringement of human rights. Perhaps you should protest about it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: Big Mick Date: 22 Mar 08 - 04:53 PM Smokey....... Either you are ignoring what I just wrote, or you think that obfuscation will work here? The drinker doesn't poison me by sitting beside me drinking. I can't get drunk just by sitting next to him while he is drinking. I won't get sclerosis of the liver because he drinks. Admit it. Your position is morally, physiologically, and intellectually bankrupt. You might want to invest in a dictionary to look all those words up. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey Date: 22 Mar 08 - 05:04 PM I'm not actually sure what you think my position is Mick, but you certainly don't appear to understand it very well, or what I've said. My last post wasn't directed at you, and it wasn't meant to obfuscate anything, it was just a tongue-in-cheek remark I should probably have kept to myself. I've no intention of answering any of your comments, it would be a waste of time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: Dave the Gnome Date: 22 Mar 08 - 06:55 PM albeit not the sole cause Thank you. Exactly what we have been saying all along. The pubs were on the decline in the first place. come back in a year and tell me I'm wrong I already have, albeit a bit early. I said earlier in the post that none, repeat none, of the 30 or so pubs near me have closed. It is 9 months since the ban. I have asked skipy if his local has closed but he seems remarkably quiet on that front. For what it's worth I do believe that smoker should be catered for. Provided they don't infringe my rights to go in a pub of my own choosing and breathe clean air and on the condition that they do not put the lives of the staff at risk. It would, however, involve investment in very sophisticated air filtration systems and high cost building work. Something that the drink industry simply were not prepared to do. The brewers, or more correctly the big businesses behind them, are interested only in fat profits, not peoples welfare. If you want to blame someone for your nicotine withdrawal symptems, blame them instead of the non smokers or the government. Cheers Dave. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey Date: 22 Mar 08 - 07:31 PM Of course pubs were on the decline, that's why some are having such a hard time with the smoking ban. I blame no-one but myself for any withdrawal symptoms I might experience, or any other consequence of my smoking. However, when I started going in pubs smoking was permissible, and had been for hundreds of years. It was incumbent on the objecting non-smoker to register disapproval, whether by way of withholding custom or making complaints or suggestions to the owner. Post-ban, it is incumbent on the smoker to register their disapproval. I do that in the least irritating way I can, by not going to the pub. I still can't reckon why anyone should have a problem with that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 22 Mar 08 - 08:25 PM Skipy and Smokey are sounding more and more like the Shambles every day. Please, please, not another eight year obsessive lost cause campaign. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: skipy Date: 22 Mar 08 - 10:23 PM Please note, I DO take offence at the above statement, but I assume that is what you wanted! Skipy |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey Date: 23 Mar 08 - 12:00 AM I'm afraid I've no idea what he's on about.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: Dave the Gnome Date: 23 Mar 08 - 06:46 AM Still not answered my question, skipy, although I did respond to your point on democracy. Ol' Smokey - I agree with what you are doing. Vote with your feet rather than on the Mudcat where it does no good at all. Don't let it spoil your enjoyment though - There are many ways of enjoying gigs and having drink in a pub without smoking - honest! Happy Easter eveyone. Dave |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: the lemonade lady Date: 23 Mar 08 - 01:09 PM I can't get over how you guys are bitching at eachother like a load of girls!!! (Ha that'll set off again, i dare say) Pubs in my part of North Herefordshire are empty these days because a. you can't drink and drive, and b. cos even when you're there you can't 'ave a faaaag! A lot of the pubs have turned into restaurant type pubs where it's so expensive only those 'well to do's' can venture to them anyway. God knows what people do now. I suppose you go to the Morrisons, buy cheap beer and sit infront of the telly or internet. Sad ol' loife 'ere in 'erefordshire. Saaaal |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: Victor in Mapperton Date: 23 Mar 08 - 02:01 PM For what it's worth there are a number of reasons why the pub trade has saw a reduction in profits and patrons. It's not all down to the smoking ban, so stop fighting. Yes the smoking ban has had an effect, but so has cheaper alcohol in supermarkets. Drinking habits have also changed. More men now enjoy a glass of wine with their partner at home in the evenings than going down the local. Then you have the changes in social life. A lot of couples have large mortgages, two cars on the drive and a child or two heading to university. So the days of the bread winner throwing his house keeping on the kitchen table are well and truly over. Both salaries go directly into the bank and the wife knows what you are earning ! Public houses now target those with the extra cash and no commitments, the 18 to 25 age group, who meet up in a house before they head out and kill a few bottles of supermarket wine, then head into a pub with a jukebox or disco and burn the night up. Pubs can not stay open selling a few pints to the like of me of a night, employing staff, heating and electricity costs plus crippling council rates. So it's not just the smoking ban, it's a load of things. So stop fighting and bitching. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: Victor in Mapperton Date: 23 Mar 08 - 02:03 PM By the way, if you want to stop smoking get your doctor to prescribe Champix, if they worked for me they will work for anyone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey Date: 23 Mar 08 - 02:10 PM Thanks Dave, I appreciate that. To be honest, the ban itself had precious little direct effect on me personally, and my observations are mostly based on personal local experience which I appreciate may not necessarily apply in more affluent areas. There are quite a few 'pub bands' in my area/social circle though, and they have definitely felt the pinch. I've not seen any pubs literally closing due to the smoking ban itself - life and business are just not that simple, but the effect round here is undeniable, and unless something else comes along to rescue the trade there is no doubt the situation will lead to closures - the economics are simple to work out, and the few landlords I know personally can clearly see it coming. Lock-ins are on the increase as a consequence, and of course that's when the ashtrays come out.. I don't blame non-smokers for any of this though, and I don't see why they should blame me, though I appreciate only a minority are that small-minded. I always credited yer average folky with a lot more intelligence, tolerance and social awareness than some of the contributers here have demonstrated. One is forced to wonder if their agenda is actually what it claims to be. Happy Easter to you too. OS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: Dave the Gnome Date: 24 Mar 08 - 08:26 AM Victor - We cannot drive to pubs. We cannot smoke in pubs. And now you want us to stop bitching and fighting? Sheesh, what fun CAN we have then? :D |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey Date: 24 Mar 08 - 01:24 PM Perhaps we should do that in the street as well.. although I'm really getting too old for all this outdoor life. I reckon you can have too much fresh air and exercise. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: Victor in Mapperton Date: 24 Mar 08 - 01:39 PM Dave that is what we have this forum for ! be careful not to spill your drink over the keyboard, and please don't flick your ash on the carpet. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 Mar 08 - 03:26 AM "I reckon you can have too much fresh air and exercise." That's for us to decide, and why we've got a smoking ban. One word of acknowledgment of the damage you've done to our comfort and health (and lives) might evoke a bit more sympathy; as it is - I hope it pisses with rain every time you feel like a fag. Take a lesson from the Irish and stop whining - even the smokers here appear to think its not a bad idea - as can be seen by driving through towns in the early hours of the morning and witnessing the little knots of illegal drinkers standing in the street smoking. Jim Carroll PS Not on a crusade - I would just like to stay alive a little longer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: GUEST,Guest Date: 25 Mar 08 - 05:52 AM "Take a lesson from the Irish and stop whining - even the smokers here appear to think its not a bad idea". Has an official spokesperson for Irish Smokers arrived on the thread ? Takings are also down among vintners in Ireland according to the figures I seen published. I never read anything from the pro smoking group to say smokers in Ireland support it. Possibly the people you seen standing in "Little Knots" could have been snorting or injecting drugs ? Cork, Dublin and Limerick have some of the highest figures for drug abuse in Europe. It always amuses me how some people suddenly find their voice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey Date: 25 Mar 08 - 04:09 PM Jim, I neither expect nor want your sympathy. Don't you think it's just a wee bit purile to hope it rains every time I want a smoke? Let me know which pubs you intend to visit; I'll avoid them with the greatest of pleasure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: GUEST,OSps Date: 25 Mar 08 - 04:13 PM Pardon my spelling - smoke in my eye. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 Mar 08 - 05:31 PM Cork, Dublin and Limerick have some of the highest figures for drug abuse in Europe. Does that include cigarettes? Otherwise -so what - Dublin and Limerick have the highest murder rates in Ireland - what's your point? No newly found voice here - I've always had an opinion on cigarettes - I've known enough people die from them. I live in Ireland and drink in Irish pubs - I don't speak for anybody but myself and I say what I see. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: Wesley S Date: 25 Mar 08 - 05:42 PM Let me sum it all up then: Fresh air - Good Tobacco smoke - Bad Isn't that about it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: Big Mick Date: 25 Mar 08 - 05:46 PM Better if it was: Fresh air - stay alive Tobacco smoke - kills you |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey Date: 25 Mar 08 - 08:41 PM Wesley wins the 'design a teeshirt' competition - at least his is accurate. Can't help wondering why Ireland has little knots of illegal drinkers standing in the street in the early hours though, particularly with the increased police presence on the roads which you mentioned earlier. In my part of the world the landlord locks the doors and pretends it's a private party. That way, indoor smoking is 'legal'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: Jim Carroll Date: 26 Mar 08 - 04:38 AM People here - certainly in my town - appear to have accepted the fact that smoking is anti-social; a problem you appear to have trouble grasping. A few months after the ban was introduced a crowd from one of the local bars went to Lewes for a week-end out. During the evening one of them was discovered outside the pub smoking, and when he was told it was ok to smoke inside he replied "it doesn't feel right any more!" A few honestly answered questions might sort all this out. Fact - smoking kills - it says so on the box. Fact - passive smoking is unpleasant to the non-smoker and potentially detrimental to the health of anybody in the vicinity - the first questions I am asked by my doctor when I visit him (regularly) for my respitory problems are, "do you smoke?" and "do you spend any time in a smokey atmosphere?" Question - do you accept the general opinion that smoking damages the health of smoker and non-smoker alike - if not, on what grounds? Question - If you do, how do you justify your insistence on being allowed to continue to endanger the well being (and even the lives) of others? As I said before - get used to it - it's here to stay! Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey Date: 26 Mar 08 - 04:01 PM I have accepted the smoking ban, and previously made that clear. If you'd actually read what I've said instead of making wildly inaccurate assumptions about me based on your own obvious prejudices and reinterpretations, you wouldn't need to ask any of that. Have you ever stopped gloating long enough to consider how the ban might affect elderly or disabled smokers? I see what you're getting at now regarding the after-hours drinkers going outside for a smoke, despite risking the publican's licence - thanks for clarifying that. It does, however, bear out my claim that not all smokers are as inconsiderate/selfish/homicidal or whatever as you claim them to be. Or are you perhaps implying that the smokers where you live are morally superior in some way? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: skipy Date: 26 Mar 08 - 06:19 PM Leadfingers pointed out to me last night that the hall that I have been chair of for the last 12 years! Where we hold follkforms is no smoking! As I told him last night I have not smoked in there during the 18 years of running the concert! Nor did I ever smoke during any form of visit (of which there where 1000s, or any committeee meetings). However just to keep it clear, tonight I resigned, non smoker required to take my place! Skipy |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey Date: 26 Mar 08 - 07:21 PM Not good enough Skipy - we have to be sorry, admit we are wrong, morally bankrupt, and - well just generally inferior. It is our fault that these people now have nothing to moan about, and we should be forced to take the consequences. Merely staying away from them is just not enough; downright selfish in fact. I'm contemplating flailing myself with birch twigs and drinking battery acid - come on now, where's your social conscience? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: skipy Date: 26 Mar 08 - 07:30 PM There are many other social involvements that I have been running for 20+ years that I can still pull down, month by month they wil get less help from me. Megam L knows all about me, well I assume so from her post! Skipy In open space, a pleasant helpful person, backed into a corner, I'll rip for fucking throat out & shit down it! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: Big Mick Date: 26 Mar 08 - 07:35 PM I really do tire of these folks that start out moaning about smokers rights, and how the banning of their habit will be the downfall of modern society, and how they are so mistreated. Then when they are thoroughly discredited on the issue, they start trying to take high road victim status as though they are being wronged. Smokey . .. Skipy . .. methinks thou dost protest too loudly. let it go. It's over. Go smoke your brains out. Have a ball. Just don't make me walk through it or smell it. Keep your poisons to yourself and enjoy the hell out of them. That is your business, and nobody cares. Do it. Enjoy it. Just keep it away from folks that haven't expressed a desire to be around it. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: GUEST,Guest Date: 26 Mar 08 - 08:06 PM Right you had your say. A 20 packet of cigarettes has a production cost of 23 pence in the UK. Did you hear 23 pence leaving the factory. They sell for £4.76 over the counter. As the government increases the cost of them annually and let's say smokers stopped in great numbers, the government would have to tax the ass of all the moaners above. It would be worth it ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: GUEST,Mohd Najmul Alam Shabuj Date: 26 Mar 08 - 08:33 PM Considering how much money the Government earn from cigarettes they will no doubt find another product to tax just as heavily to fill the gap since the smoking ban ( hopefully they could tax that real ale shit) then again who drinks it ? The ban will cause people to smoke less. If smokers boycott the bars and restaurants because of the smoking ban then the Government will lose the revenue they make from the alcohol sales as well! (please smokers do this and the government will raise income tax) What will they tax next? Now the sale of cigarettes go right down where will all the lost revenue come from? possibly ID cards. This is the "Nanny State gradually mutating into the "Big Brother State". Is this really happening in Britain? What right does the Government have to dictate where we can smoke? I don't smoke now but I am against the Government's increasing tendency to interfere with our personal lives. Possibly the government could get of their bottoms and do something positive like chasing half those teenage mums living off our taxes into work and take the benefits of lazy people who decide not to work and just scrounge instead. Or better still, move in on those fat bottomed ladies who live in their local bakery filling their ass with cake and filling hospital beds or say they are too fat to work. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: TheSnail Date: 26 Mar 08 - 08:42 PM GUEST,Guest As the government increases the cost of them annually and let's say smokers stopped in great numbers, the government would have to tax the ass of all the moaners above. Not to mention the cost of pensions for all those ex-smokers who would be living longer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey Date: 26 Mar 08 - 09:00 PM Like I said before, the fascists have had their little win. It doesn't bother me personally that I can't smoke in pubs, and I don't think smokers should have any more or less rights than anyone else. It's a small minority of non-smokers who seem to be really getting wound up about this, and I can't for the life of me see why, when they have been given what they want on a plate without having to lift a finger to bring it about democratically. Obviously they want to feel superior, but surely they can do that quietly and without resorting to the playground mentality that they are exhibiting here. I'd like to know if they are prepared to treat disabled and elderly smokers in this way. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: TheSnail Date: 26 Mar 08 - 09:11 PM There are 194 posts on this thread. At least 38 of them are from GUEST,Ol' Smokey. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: Big Mick Date: 26 Mar 08 - 09:12 PM You are really a piece of work. So let's see if I get this right. You seem to be implying that I should be morally conflicted by letting an elderly or disabled person poison me instead of a young healthy person? I am feeling superior because I don't want your carcinogens? As to your assertion that smokers got something for nothing, not lifting a finger to get it democratically? I assume that you elect the officials that make the rules, no? They will be held accountable by the electorate at some point for their decisions, yes? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey Date: 26 Mar 08 - 09:24 PM Those are remarkably convenient conclusions to jump to Mick. Snail, the only reason I've hung about here is that I really, really enjoy winding up bigoted twats when I've nothing better to do. Let's face it, they could have ignored me if they wanted, I'm not compulsory :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: Big Mick Date: 26 Mar 08 - 09:26 PM You said, and I quote: Not jumping to any conclusion when it is your words that I am referring to. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey Date: 26 Mar 08 - 09:34 PM So you are then? Fair enough, I just wondered. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs From: Big Mick Date: 26 Mar 08 - 09:36 PM OK then, champ, perhaps you could enlighten me as to what conclusion I should come to, based on the quote? Thanks. |
