BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 May 06 - 03:40 PM

And that makes 300 nails in this particular coffin.

Well, no. 301 with this post.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Haruo
Date: 27 May 06 - 03:42 PM

Don Firth wrote, "To me, Christianity is—or should be, if one reads it properly (unfortunately, a rare occurrence)—something akin to an ethical system. The core readings in the Gospels, sayings ascribed to Jesus, outline principles for how people should treat each other. I've often linked to Matthew 25, verses 35 through 40 as that core. That, and the Beatitudes in the Sermon on the Mount. Very good principles for human interaction to be found there. Someone said or wrote these things, and whether or not it was Jesus of Nazareth, Matthew himself, or some unknown copyist in a monastery somewhere makes no essential difference."

I've known many atheists and agnostics (and other non-Christian religionists, for that matter) who had a similar view of Christian teachings, but AR282 is not one of them. His central argument seems to be that there is no ethical content to Christian teaching worth following. Personally, I am closer to Don than to AR282 on this, though I also subscribe to pie in the sky when you die and the resurrection of the body. I certainly agree with Don that truth doesn't depend for its truthfulness on the name of the writer of the book it's in.

FWIW
Haruo

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 May 06 - 03:55 PM

The only absolutely sure way of determining any truth is by direct experience and observation, since any supposedly authoritative source, no matter who or what it is or was, no matter when it came into being, may be compromised in some way.

If people are brought up to believe that the Bible is an umimpeachable and totally authoritative source...(which I was not)...then they will probably interpret its writings as the absolute truth. I don't. I don't consider any book to be the absolute guaranteed truth, but a given book may still be quite useful as a guide toward part of the truth. Whether it is or not, that's a matter of individual opinion, or anyone's best guess.

The only thing that is an absolute guaranteed guide to the whole truth is life itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 May 06 - 03:59 PM

AR--


Like Haruo, I can hardly wait for your evidence that "the Flavians" invented Jesus.

And, of course, specifically which "Flavians".

And exactly why. What is this dangerous "Jewish connection" you mention?

You're nothing if not entertaining.

But so far, not very convincing--but at least it's your very own conspiracy theory. As far as I know, you can claim ownership.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Peace
Date: 27 May 06 - 04:06 PM

"The only absolutely sure way of determining any truth is by direct experience and observation, since any supposedly authoritative source, no matter who or what it is or was, no matter when it came into being, may be compromised in some way."

John Godfrey Saxe's ( 1816-1887) version of the famous Indian legend,

It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!"

The Second, feeling of the tusk
Cried, "Ho! what have we here,
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me `tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!"

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up he spake:
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a snake!"

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee:
"What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain," quoth he;
"'Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!"

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope.
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a rope!"

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

Moral:

So oft in theologic wars,
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 May 06 - 04:10 PM

So true, Peace. Good one. Yes, we all prattle on endlessly about our own little fragments of "the truth". Some men have the wisdom to know what fools they are, and they learn humility. Most do not.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 May 06 - 04:20 PM

The Flavians.

HERE.
MORE (images of Roman emperors during the period in question).
STILL MORE (more extensive dissertation).

Any significant connections between the Flavians, Christianity, and the historical Jesus seem pretty tenuous, if there at all.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 May 06 - 06:17 PM

Yes, but AR282s truth is obviously more valid than anyone elses because he keeps quoting references for it. Whenever anyone disputes or discredits those references they do not get a response because AR knows that he is right. Am I getting the general drift right here?

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 May 06 - 06:36 PM

Indeed you are, Dave. ;-) Every ego knows that it is "right". That's the way the ego operates. It's a spectacularly good rationalizer.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 May 06 - 06:45 PM

"As soon as you gain access to the fortress, you swarm in and lay it waste."

Sane Generals have often been known to group their forces (allowing them to get a good night's sleep, sharpen their swords, restock on arrows, have one last fling and write home the last time to mum and the kids...) for an all out 'surprise' (even when they can see you camped out there...) Dawn Attack. Especially if the little buggers have no where to run to. And then, after all, should they REALLY want to all die before you murder them all by hand, well, that's more of your forces intact for the inevitable next battle...

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: gnu
Date: 27 May 06 - 06:57 PM

According to the Witnesses who came into my castle's back yard today, after trying to gain access to the main gate, whilst I was up a ladder, we are all going to hell... except for the JW's... who, apparently, don't swear when the SOB of an air conditioner won't fit the same way it did last summer.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 May 06 - 07:09 PM

I think that life provides plenty of support for the notion that we are already there.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 May 06 - 08:46 PM

Nah. Life is cool.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 May 06 - 09:11 PM

Well, that's a good attitude, Don. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 May 06 - 04:00 AM

Some might be interested in more than the article pertinent to this thread in the most recent issue of Smithsonian. The link is to the "issue lead sheet" and shows the major articles in the issue.

Down toward the bottom, there is the link to Who Was Mary Magdalene?, that is the article of interest here. The article, of course, expresses opinion with which you may or may not agree, or even see if you're fully indoctrinated in some traditonal belief; but it does give a "once over lightly" outline of how some people study the origins and development of doctrinal "knowledge." Perhaps a review of a conventional approach to such information, even in a light article like this one, will help focus on the kinds of arguments that are pertinent here (and perhaps not.) Or you may enjoy the article just as a bit of light reading.

For some really lost history also take a look at the article Below the Rim, the lead article at the first link.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 May 06 - 01:10 PM

Good article on Mary Magdalene.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: bobad
Date: 28 May 06 - 01:29 PM

Good article on the people of the Grand Canyon.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Haruo
Date: 28 May 06 - 02:06 PM

Yes, both are good articles. Though in the case of the Mary M. one, the failure to tie it all in with the life of Julius Caesar makes the whole premise suspect - NOT.

Haruo

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 May 06 - 02:13 PM

Heh! Yes, how could they have overlooked that????

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: GUEST,AR282
Date: 28 May 06 - 02:24 PM

>>I have done exacly what you asked of me AR282. What else can I do to get you to respond? Or was my attack on your argument not to your liking either?<<

Are you asking me to prove Roman royals created the Christian religion as we know it? This what I mean about changing the subject. that was never what this thread was about. this thread is about the historicity of Jesus Christ. I've you my reasons why I don't there was any such person. You've given me two things that I've refuted. If you have anything else, I'd like to see it. If my refutations are wrong then I'd like to see that too.

As for my assertions that Roman royals created the religion, I can't prove that beyond the changes Constantine made (helping to compile canon and moving Sabbath to Sunday). While it is my burden of proof, I'm not demanding you accept it. I could easily be wrong. That was never what this dispute was about. You are once again attempting to change the subject.

WHAT IS YOUR EVIDENCE JESUS WAS HISTORICAL?

THAT is the subject of this thread. If you don't buy the Roman royal theory that's fine. I'm demanding you accept it. It is my conclusion based on my researches over the years. I never said it was proven by anyone much less me.

Please stick to the subject.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: GUEST,AR283
Date: 28 May 06 - 02:27 PM

>>And as to your second sentence, that is also highly questionable. Many of the Greek philosophers often referred to "the gods" (some later Christian theologians translated Plato using "God" [singular, upper-case G] instead of "the gods" in the original, but that's spurious)<<

They spoke of the gods allegorically. It is extremely obvious they were never asserting these gods were for real. I believe it was the denial of gods that led to Socrates taking the hemlock.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: GUEST,AR282
Date: 28 May 06 - 02:32 PM

>>Ron and I have been asking for some sort of specificity about the "royals" you allege invented (or perhaps historicized?) Jesus, and you have been singularly unforthcoming on that point. But the quote (1) above suggests it was not so much "royals" as "Flavians" you are fingering, and much closer to the time of both Jesus and Josephus than most of your hints on the subject have suggested. So, let me try again. Who are these royals and what period do you allege they were operating in?<<

This is once again changing the subject. The Roman royal theory is my own conjecture. I never said I had proof of it and I never said you have to accept it. The subject of this thread is the historicity of Jesus Christ, which you are failing miserably to make a case for.

Forget about the Roman royals. If it will make you happy--I completely lied about it. There were no Roman royals. They never existed and had no hand in the creation of anything. I was completely off my rocker to suggest it. I apologize for my error and will never suggest it again. I WAS WRONG!!!

Okay?

Now--what is your evidence for the historicity of Jesus Christ? That is the subject of the thread and for which you have the burden of proof and for which are attempting to prove nothing so far. Please lay it out for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Haruo
Date: 28 May 06 - 03:25 PM

Of philosophers: "They spoke of the gods allegorically. It is extremely obvious they were never asserting these gods were for real. I believe it was the denial of gods that led to Socrates taking the hemlock." This is not "extremely obvious", and the mere fact* that Socrates* was convicted of denial of gods certainly doesn't mean it was true. We Christians tend to overplay the extent to which we were persecuted by the Roman Imperial government in the early days of the movement, but there was clearly some actual persecution (even actual martyrdoms) and the charges, not infrequently, included "atheism".

Now, I realize that this does not answer your notion of what this thread is about. But all this side stuff (both that you have brought up, like the Flavian thing and indeed the whole idea that the title / should be an =, and the things others of us have brought up like the elephant and Mary Magdalene) is quite pertinent to the assessment of the evidence (such as it is, and there ain't much that would "prove beyond a reasonable doubt" any of our points).

I certainly don't have any proof that would convince you of the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth let alone that of Jesus the Anointed One of God and God's unigenitus Son. It's all speculative stuff, because what we have to do with history at this remove is to speculate as to what concatenation of prior realities is most likely to have eventuated in the reality we think we can prove. I think Josephus (without the interpolations) provides some evidence (not proof) of the existence of Jesus. I think this is buttressed by Origen. I think if Eusebius had wanted to create the Testimonium Flavianum he would also have changed his Origen citations. From what I think I know of the history of the early church (and there is a fair amount of archæological evidence that there was Christianity prior to both Constantine and Eusebius, and some evidence as to what beliefs were current at various points) it seems to me more likely (indeed, much more likely) that there was an itinerant rabbi, almost certainly named (not just titled) Jesus (Yeshu or Yeshua, if you prefer a semiticized spelling), some time prior to Saul of Tarsus, whom I likewise take to have existed despite the fact that some of the letters canonized in his name seem unlikely to have been his, and despite the fact that the Acts of the Apostles is not "history", on whom (antecedent: Jesus) the later Christianities that are documented were dependent. Having said all that, please be aware that the Jesus I believe in and through whom I believe I am being saved is not subject to historical proofs or disproofs; the history involved is my own life, the Jesus I believe in "lives within my heart" (using "heart" in a non-anatomical sense, I hasten to clarify) and acts within my life experience. The connection between this living Savior and the itinerant rabbi is not a matter of proof, but of faith. Paul (né Saul) wrote (I Cor. 15, KJV)

"And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept."

Now, I believe that Paul was referring to Jesus here when he wrote "Christ", and that he was referring to some sort of relatively recent event in the way of a resurrection of Christ Jesus, but my own faith in Christ Jesus is not actually dependent upon Paul's testimony. For that matter, since I am of a universalist bent, I believe that you, too, AR282, are being saved—again a point upon which Paul and the historical rabbi Yeshu might have words with me. I don't believe there's anything you can do to thwart the salvific intent of God. (This is, I suppose, based on my effort to step back and imagine the whole elephant.)

Haruo

*fact...Socrates — am I to take it that you believe Socrates was historical?

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 May 06 - 03:26 PM

"They spoke of the gods allegorically. It is extremely obvious they were never asserting these gods were for real. I believe it was the denial of gods that led to Socrates taking the hemlock."

Sorry, AR282, no cigar.

"Extremely obvious" they were not asserting these gods for real? Since when? Many thought the bloody Oracle of Delphi was real and based their actions on enigmatic pronouncements, sometimes with disastrous results. I'm quite sure that not all Greeks believed the gods were real, but many of them, including some of the philosophers spoke of them often—and not allegorically.

And it was not Socrates denying of the gods that brought about his execution. In Socrates's time, the Greeks thought of gods and goddesses as associated with particular cities. E.g.Athens, Athena. When Athens was defeated in the Peloponnesian War, there were some who maintained that the defeat was because the citizens of Athens were insufficiently pious and a pissed-off Athena allowed them to be defeated as punishment. Socrates shot off his mouth and said that the defeat was not so much a matter of impiety as human incompetence. This didn't go over too big with The Powers That Be. They charged Socrates with impiety and of corrupting the youth of Athens. That was the excuse that was used to have him executed.

You're really pretty good, AR282, but you're arguing with people who know more than you do.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: dianavan
Date: 28 May 06 - 04:31 PM

AR282 - Constantine realized that instead of persecuting Christians, he could use the Vatican as a means of controlling the masses. That doesn't mean that Jesus did or didn't exist. The proof that he existed is, of course, speculative.

It is quite possible that when centralizing the power of the Holy Roman Catholic church, and consolidating the Old Testament with the New Testement, stories were borrowed from mythology and oral history to create the New Testament as we know it today. We also know that shortly thereafter schisms resulted in a separation of the Roman church and the Eastern Orthodox Church. In additon, we know that the Celtic church resisted Roman rule for a long time. What we see is a major shift from a lunar calendar to a solar calendar. A shift from a matrilineal belief system to a patrilineal belief system with the son of God replacing the Earth Goddesses of the pagans.

Following this, of course, was the first recorded case of genocide. The Cathars of Southern France were also Christian but were slaughtered as heretics. They did not believe in the central authority of the Vatican or that Christianity needed a central authority. I'm not sure if they even believed in Jesus. Yes, they were Christians but did not believe in the accumulation of wealth (the Vatican), the so-called communion (they were vegetarian) or celibacy. In fact, many of the Vatican's attempts to rule Christendom were rejected. Thats why so many were killed during the Crusades and the Inquisition.

That doesn't mean that Jesus did not exist or that Christianity is invalid. I can go along with the possibility that Jesus did not exist as we have come to know him but I still believe that what remains of Christianity is still valid if you take away the central authority of the church and the hodge-podge of so-called historical accounts of the life of Jesus.

You are free to believe what you wish. As for me, I'm an unbaptized Christian who understands and knows the spirit of Christ. Jesus doesn't have a lot to do with my faith or my system of beliefs. I do not respect the so-called Holy Roman Catholic Church or any of the churches that are essentially offsprings.

Why do you think that the image of Jesus the Shepherd is so prevalent? Those that follow Jesus and the teachings of the church are also referred to as the flock. I refuse to be a member of a flock of sheep. This is exactly what Rome and the Vatican intended. What is amazing to me is that although Rome has fallen, the church remains. That tells me that the church is more powerful than any secular means of control.

We are all free to believe what we wish but if you try to cram it down someone's throat you are considered to be psychotic.

Time to give it up. Believe what you must but I know that science does not explain everything and because of that I have spent my life studying different religions. Faith begins where science ends and we all need something to lean on. This will never change.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 May 06 - 04:40 PM

What dianavan said!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 May 06 - 05:34 PM

AR282. I have already said you don't need to keep quoting me. Why do it?

I am not asking you to do anything. You asked me to attack your argument. Remember? Look back up the thread if you can't. My attack is that your argument is so full of holes it is not even worth the effort of looking up your quotes. You aksed me to attack it. Why do you have a problem when I do?

As to sticking to point of the thread you have managed to stay remarkably well away from it for a long time. Just look at it. Dead simple. Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction? It is up there in black and white. I have tried to explain over and over again that there is no fact or fiction about either. It is all supposition. That IS the point. Neither theroy is right or wrong. What is wrong is the assertion that either was or was not this or that. The whole point is no-one knows.

Oh - and opening another thread on the same topic in another name does not validate your argument. Transparaent tactic.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Peace
Date: 28 May 06 - 05:43 PM

Is Guest AR282 also Guest Sori?

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 May 06 - 05:46 PM

Actualy I now have some doubt. Sori seems to argue with far more fluidity that AR282. So, my initial supposition is probably incorrect. If so, sorry, Sori.

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 12:43 PM

Bock to the ORIGINAL topic


When you look for the existence of Jesus outside the bible you get two examples. You have Tacitus who makes mention of him in 115 AD, and Josephus, who mentions him in 70 A.D. Both references are nearly a half-century from the time Jesus was purported to be stirring up the dust in the holy land. Not a great track record there.

Compare and contrast to that which is available by Julius Caesar, including his own account of the Gaulish Campaign (De Bellum Gallico) in SEVEN SODDING VOLUMES (the eighth was added later by Aulus Hirtius). These are books by the man himself. Add in Livy (We have 35 of his purported 142 books) and you begin to get just a slight idea of how much hard historical evidence we have as the old JC and the triumvirate sunshine band.

There is an overwhelming amount of evidence documenting the existence Julius Caesar compared to the rather paltry evidence documenting Jesus.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 12:54 PM

Oh, joy. It's back.

Julius Caesar moved in high places. He was a politician. He commanded armies and ruled an empire. It is never hard finding written evidence for the past existence of such people.

Jesus, according to the stories we have heard about him, never sought or held such positions of worldly power, wasn't rich, didn't enter politics, commanded no armies, ruled no earthly empires, and hung out with poor people.

And you're surprised there isn't much written historical evidence available at this point about his earthly activities??????

LOL!!! It's always like that with such people. They go mostly unnoticed by the movers and shakers of this world who are concerned with money, material goods, physical pleasures, and temporal power.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 01:05 PM

Lame excuse LH... just like most of your blather

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 01:19 PM

Which, when you boil it down, doesn't really prove much. Julius Caesar was a world leader and of course there would be a lot written about him by both contemporaries and historians. Add to that that if the world leader kept journals, those journals would be entered as one of the main historical sources.

For a period of three years, Jesus (or Yeshua, or Joshua) was an itinerant, unauthorized (unordained) rabbi. He didn't lead any armies or conquer any counties or do much of anything else to attract the attention of contemporary journalists. He just wandered around in a small area of the Near East talking to people. What is known about him comes mostly from the followers he attracted and by the time it was written down, had been "folk processed" quite a bit.

Without implying anything about my own religious beliefs—or lack thereof—I do belief that Jesus (or Yeshua, or Joshua, or something similar) was a real historical person. Mortal, not some "divine" manifestation (well, that should be a clue as to my religious beliefs, or again, lack thereof). His basic message was that we ought to be nicer to each other and help those who need help.

If he showed up again today, not in a flying chariot with a flaming sword, but just wandering around and talking to people with the same message, the Powers That Be would probably crucify him just as they did before.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Wesley S
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 01:31 PM

Clinton - why do you care ? Those who believe are going to continue to believe. Those that don't - won't. No one one is going to have a "revelation" and say - "Oh crap - Clinton's right - I've been wrong all along. Thank goodness he set me straight".

There's no scoreboard - no points to be gained or lost. And nothing to win. Why does everyone here like to argue so much?

Would you rather be right - or happy ?

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 01:34 PM

" Would you rather be right - or happy ?"

I'm BOTH! LOL

:-P
(jealous? I knew you would be...)

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Wesley S
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 02:02 PM

I'm happy that you're happy.

Now - why do you care so much ? Are you really expecting to change people's minds ? Is it important to you that we all think the same way as you do?

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 02:17 PM

Wo says I do care what others think?

If no one posted here, what would be the point of this place?

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Wesley S
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 02:32 PM

Sorry - I thought you were able to answer my question about your own motivations. Carry on.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 02:57 PM

My motivations are not at issue in this thread.....

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Wesley S
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 03:24 PM

Yup - you're happy AND right.....

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 03:27 PM

indeed! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Wesley S
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 03:33 PM

And we NEVER have thread drift and threads are always about whatever you want them to be about....

You're sounding kind of godlike to me......

Where do we send our tithes?

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 03:34 PM

"we NEVER have thread drift and threads are always about whatever you want them to be about"

Now you're hearing things.... where did I say any of that?

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 03:44 PM

Unlike you, Clinton, I am not trying to prove anything...

You're the one who appears to consider it his duty to prove a negative proposition here...namely, that Jesus never existed.

And like others, I can only wonder about the source of your motivation in that regard.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Wesley S
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 03:47 PM

Little Hawk - Sorry - Clinton isn't taking questions at this time.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 03:48 PM

He's his own biggest fan, Wesley. He doesn't have to take questions. He's kind of like the Pope in that respect... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Wesley S
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 03:57 PM

He does tend to think he's infallible doesn't he ? I'm just glad that he's will to rub elbows with us mere mortals.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 04:02 PM

Well, that's the natural compassion of the mighty seeping through his pores, Wesley. He just can't help making the occasional compassionate gesture.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 04:05 PM

"He does tend to think he's infallible doesn't he"

Not at all... but yer mom thinks I do pretty well.... better than you ever did, if she's to be trusted


:-P

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Wesley S
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 04:13 PM

So - I didn't know you were into necrophilia. Whatever floats your boat as they say. But if you can't stay on topic just say so.

PS - Look up infallible in your dictionary - even in Canada it's not about erectile disfunction.