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BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed
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Subject: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Nov 05 - 10:54 PM Kan. School Board OKs Evolution Language November 08, 2005 TOPEKA, Kan. - Revisiting a topic that exposed Kansas to nationwide ridicule six years ago, the state Board of Education approved science standards for public schools Tuesday that cast doubt on the theory of evolution. The 6-4 vote was a victory for intelligent design advocates who helped draft the standards. Intelligent design holds that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by a higher power. Critics of the new language charged that it was an attempt to inject God and creationism into public schools in violation of the separation of church and state. "This is a sad day. We're becoming a laughingstock of not only the nation, but of the world, and I hate that," said board member Janet Waugh, a Democrat. Supporters of the new standards said they will promote academic freedom. "It gets rid of a lot of dogma that's being taught in the classroom today," said board member John Bacon. [Isn't this a riot? The christian right wants to get rid of "dogma"?] The new standards say high school students must understand major evolutionary concepts. But they also declare that the basic Darwinian theory that all life had a common origin and that natural chemical processes created the building blocks of life have been challenged in recent years by fossil evidence and molecular biology. ["Challenges" that have no scientific basis, that have been shown to be contrived and nonsensical] In addition, the board rewrote the definition of science, so that it is no longer limited to the search for natural explanations of phenomena. [So, uh, it isn't science then, is it?] The new standards will be used to develop student tests measuring how well schools teach science. Decisions about what is taught in classrooms will remain with 300 local school boards, but some educators fear pressure will increase in some communities to teach less about evolution or more about creationism or intelligent design. "What this does is open the door for teachers to bring creationist arguments into the classroom and point to the standards and say it's OK," said Jack Krebs, an Oskaloosa High School math teacher and vice president of Kansas Citizens for Science, which opposes the changes. But John Calvert, a retired attorney who helped found the Intelligent Design Network, said changes probably will come to classrooms gradually, with some teachers feeling freer to discuss criticisms of evolution. "These changes are not targeted at changing the hearts and minds of the Darwin fundamentalists," Calvert said. [But they'd like to confuse the hell out of everyone else] The vote marked the third time in six years that the Kansas board has rewritten standards with evolution as the central issue. In 1999, the board eliminated most references to evolution. Harvard paleontologist Stephen Jay Gould said that was akin to teaching "American history without Lincoln." Bill Nye, the "Science Guy" of children's television, called it "harebrained" and "nutty." And a Washington Post columnist imagined God saying to the Kansas board members: "Man, I gave you a brain. Use it, OK?" Two years later, after voters replaced three members, the board reverted to evolution-friendly standards. Elections in 2002 and 2004 changed the board's composition again, making it more conservative. The latest vote is likely to bring fresh national criticism to Kansas and cause many scientists to see the state as backward. Many scientists and other critics contend creationists repackaged old ideas in new, scientific-sounding language to get around a U.S. Supreme Court decision in 1987 against teaching the biblical story of creation in public schools. The Kansas board's action is part of a national debate. In Pennsylvania, a judge is expected to rule soon in a lawsuit against the Dover school board's policy of requiring high school students to learn about intelligent design in biology class. In August, President Bush endorsed teaching intelligent design alongside evolution. [Would you want your child exposed to anything that Dubya endorses? I rest my case!] SRS [and editorial remarks] |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: JohnInKansas Date: 08 Nov 05 - 11:10 PM Well - it does prove that Kansas hasn't done much of a job of teaching science up 'till now. ... If we let the kids examine creationism as a science as the Board demands, and make them write their lab reports citing the experiments by which they showed that creationism stands up to scientific examination, those who choose to "study" creationism will all have to be flunked, and won't get to graduate, and will be unsuited for any occupation except "member of the school bored." It probably didn't make the national headlines but the same board also appointed a head honcho for education administration with NO school teaching or administrative experience, and who's only qualification for the job has been leading anti-school-funding lobbies at the State Capitol for the past few years. And one of our State Senators (female) says that "women shouldn't have needed the right to vote if men took care of them like they should." (Our next State Constitutional Amendment?) The "bright light" is that the "new science criteria" won't appear on student tests for at least two years, so they don't have to be taught immediately - and four of the six IDIOTS are up for election before then... John |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: Kaleea Date: 09 Nov 05 - 02:40 AM dubblepew endorses intelligent design? Didn't he say, "I don't have nuthin' to do with intellilgence!"? oh, I guess that was only an actor impersonating dubblepew on Saturday Night Live. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: Paul Burke Date: 09 Nov 05 - 04:16 AM What's the value of pi in Kansas? |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: robomatic Date: 09 Nov 05 - 07:06 AM In Kansas they evaluate pi by the slice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: Bill D Date: 09 Nov 05 - 11:34 AM My only hope is that the national and international furor this ruling will ...ummm, 'create', will serve to show Kansans with any semblance of sense how out of step they are. Those whose minds are closed and locked wouldn't believe in evolution if a voice from the sky TOLD them "That is HOW I did it!", but kids use Google these days and can read lots of opinions, and maybe in the process of being forced to study two opposed theories, reading will get enough of them thinking so that, as adults, they will vote to reverse this nonsense and keep religious views for church. You CAN'T redefine 'Science' for your own personal use! |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: Peace Date: 09 Nov 05 - 11:35 AM Pi are squared. Idiots. Pi are round. Cake are squared. Dorothy . . . . . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: Peace Date: 09 Nov 05 - 11:44 AM It was Will Rogers who remarked that it was easy being a humorist because he had the whole government working for him. Sir, we need you now! |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: Peace Date: 09 Nov 05 - 11:54 AM However, in fact the decision makers and voters in Kansas have disproved Darwin's Theory of Natural Selection. Just by being themselves. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: Bill D Date: 09 Nov 05 - 12:08 PM I've lived in Kansas, and I can assure you that the process of choosing the school board is UN-natural selection! |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: Bill D Date: 09 Nov 05 - 12:11 PM and in Dover, PA, they voted OUT the 8 member board that had tried to stuff 'intelligent design' down their throats! |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: TheBigPinkLad Date: 09 Nov 05 - 12:25 PM This is ripe for a dedicated episode of 'The Simpsons.' featuring Cletus, no doubt. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: Clinton Hammond Date: 09 Nov 05 - 12:27 PM I can't wait to see what The Daily Show does with this nonsense... |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: Bill D Date: 09 Nov 05 - 12:29 PM Maybe they will show this sign on the Daily Show. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evolution as Heresy? From: JohnInKansas Date: 09 Nov 05 - 01:08 PM The "good" news in Kansas is that the standard tests won't be revised to include questions on "intelligent design" for about two years, so this crap doesn't have to be included immediately; and four of the six IDIOTS will have to run for re-election next year. It is possible that the new rules may be changed before they ever go into effect, although it's by no means certain. It should also be noted that Kansas is only one of a half-dozen states with similar "standards" established within the last couple of years. Kansas has just flaunted their ignorance a little (well actually a lot) more than the others. There's also that Kansas did the same thing, establishing a requirement to include "creationism" in the school curricula fairly recently. It was removed by the next succeeding school board, after the election. That makes Kansas an easy target, because there are lots of old "jokes" that can just be dusted off and recycled. The notoriety Kansas is getting from this may be helpful in getting the BRAINWASHED BRAIN-DEAD BIGOTS off the Kansas School Board, so please keep the "jokes" going. And note that jokes are probably more effective than rational arguments, since those who've done it are completely immune to any rational or logical arguments. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evolution as Heresy? From: JohnInKansas Date: 09 Nov 05 - 01:22 PM A bit of a confusion here. My last post, at 09 Nov 05 - 01:08 PM, was composed in another thread. I had opened this thread in a separate window to check a reference I had thought about making, while composing my post in the other one. When I hit "Submit Message" in the other thread, the post appeared here. Sorry if it's out of context. John
-Joe - |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: JohnInKansas Date: 09 Nov 05 - 02:04 PM The "good" news in Kansas is that the standard tests won't be revised to include questions on "intelligent design" for about two years, so this crap doesn't have to be included immediately; and four of the six IDIOTS will have to run for re-election next year. It is possible that the new rules may be changed before they ever go into effect, although it's by no means certain. It should also be noted that Kansas is only one of a half-dozen states with similar "standards" established within the last couple of years. Kansas has just flaunted their ignorance a little (well actually a lot) more than the others. There's also that Kansas did the same thing, establishing a requirement to include "creationism" in the school curricula fairly recently. It was removed by the next succeeding school board, after the election. That makes Kansas an easy target, because there are lots of old "jokes" that can just be dusted off and recycled. The notoriety Kansas is getting from this may be helpful in getting the BRAINWASHED BRAIN-DEAD BIGOTS off the Kansas School Board, so please keep the "jokes" going. And note that jokes are probably more effective than rational arguments, since those who've done it are completely immune to any rational or logical arguments. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: robomatic Date: 09 Nov 05 - 04:21 PM Cletus ain't that stupid. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: GUEST,DB Date: 09 Nov 05 - 05:36 PM "You can't redefine 'science' for your own personal use". Oh yes you can if you're a religious fundamentalist or Dubya or a brand manager in a marketing department (does that face cream really make you look 10 years younger? - it does because we bullied R&D into doing some sort of spurious test which 'proves' that it does). Our 'civilisation' is packed with powerful and influential people who commission spurious 'science' all the time - it's a civilisation built on sand, though! |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: Peace Date: 09 Nov 05 - 07:27 PM "BRAINWASHED BRAIN-DEAD BIGOTS" A light rinse would have done! |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: dianavan Date: 10 Nov 05 - 05:05 PM Lets hope the teachers in Kansas will teach science. Lets hope parents will remove their children from classes that teach intelligent design. Lets hope that voters realize that intelligent design could not include the members of the Kansas Board of Education. Its an oxymoron. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 10 Nov 05 - 06:09 PM An elegant solution to the problem. If 'real universities' decide to exclude students from places where the definition of 'science' has been changed thus, this will be useful and interesting, and fully justifiable. It is reasonable to say this, because you already have to satisfy the Uni that you have covered the proper relevant prerequisite material to gain admittance anyway. It you are from an 'Arts' background without any previous 'Science' study, you may be forced to do certain subjects which you can gain exemption from if you can demonstrate previous accredited study in that area. Just remove the accreditation for Science study from all Kansas (and all other) educational institutions affected by such rules. Alternatively, students from such places can be forced to do a compulsory year long subject that will educate them in the proper definition and role of Science, as accepted by Universities and other legitimate Scientists. This would doubtless include lengthy essays covering a demonstrable knowledge of the philosophy and history of Science, etc. If the students still wish to privately have different beliefs, that's ok, but they won't be able to gain entry to relevant courses until they can 'talk the talk and walk the walk'. The fallout from this will isolate the idiots involved in making such 'changes' - those wishing election to school boards will then have to make public assurances that they will do all they can to not disadvantage their students, won't they? |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: Desert Dancer Date: 10 Nov 05 - 10:29 PM In Dover, PA, they got the boot, fortunately. Click ~ Becky |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: Peace Date: 10 Nov 05 - 10:33 PM And Pat Robertson told them not to expect God's help in future because of their vote. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: bobad Date: 10 Nov 05 - 10:45 PM Any word yet on what God has to say about that ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: Peace Date: 10 Nov 05 - 11:33 PM I am waiting for an announcement from the President to clear up any doubt as to what God's gotta say. 'Nabil Shaath says: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq …" And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'"' from here. You jus' watch wot ya say here or yer gonna be in deep shit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: bobad Date: 10 Nov 05 - 11:41 PM Hail Pope Hilarius II |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: katlaughing Date: 28 Nov 05 - 10:37 AM Just came across a book and CD by Christine Lavin and collaborator which would make a great gift for youngsters and it is about REAL science. CLick Here for more about it and the award they have received. I hope some parents in KS and elsewhere will buy it! |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: Bill D Date: 28 Nov 05 - 01:33 PM just to add more thinking fodder to the bin, here are two web pages. A plea to Minnesota to discontinue teaching evolution a forum with a LONG post based on the thought of Dr. Michael Behe of Leheigh Univ., Dr. Behe is one of the leading exponents of Intelligent Design, and a seemingly honest, nice well-spoken fellow with a sense of humor and much understanding of science in general....he also happens to be a dedicated Christian who doesn't seem to grasp that he filters most of his basic conclusions thru that medium when he offers conclusions. It is SO easy to state Intelligent Design in a couple of short, pithy sentences which sound so very clear & convincing, but it is not a bit easy to counter them and explain why Intelligent Design theories fail...both scientifically and logically. DISproving something takes a lot of detailed explanation of definitions, method, logic, and ultimately requires that your audience trust and comprehend these elements. If they are emotionally committed to THEIR answer from the beginning, all the careful explanations in the world will not move them. I will simply note that it is perfectly easy and reasonable to say: "This universe is so complex and bewildering and and amazing that I cannot comprehend or imagine how any 'intelligence' could have planned and designed it! It must have been generated from some unknown beginning and evolved according to chance and physical laws!" That make as much sense as anything...and to some of us, much MORE sense than positing a 'designer' who/which is MUCH harder to account for! |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: GUEST,Wanderer Date: 29 Nov 05 - 12:08 AM It is only easy to say "it is too complex not to have a designer" until you do the actual math. Then it gets quite difficult to see why anyone needs to add such a random element into their hypothesis. Anyone who follows Dawkins' stuff has walked through the math. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: Bev and Jerry Date: 29 Nov 05 - 02:08 AM We currently have an epidemic of bird flu which can pass between birds and from birds to humans but cannot pass between humans. There is a great fear that the virus will evolve into one which can pass between humans causing a pandemic resulting in millions of deaths. We cannot develop a vaccine for the evolved virus until it comes into existance and then we will have great difficulty producing enough of it before the virus spreads to millions or perhaps billions. Now many people do not believe in evolution so, for them, it is impossible for the virus to evolve into one which can pass between humans. Therefore, they do not have to be vaccinated against bird flu. So, taking this into consideration, we may not have a problem producing enough vaccine in time. Bev and Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: JohnInKansas Date: 29 Nov 05 - 02:16 AM It may be of interest to know that a profesor at Wichita State University (Wichita Kansas) has announced a new course in the department of "Religion and Philosophy" with a v..e..r..y ... l...o...n...g title that ends with "...intelligent design and other religious myths." The legislature is being urged to pass a law agin' it, of course. A full class probably may be expected, but Pat Robertson will proclaim that all who take the class ARE GOING TO HELL!!!!. (I suppose.) John |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: Bill D Date: 29 Nov 05 - 09:56 AM "WICHITA, Kan. - At East Tennessee State University, Niall Shanks became a prominent defender of evolution, writing a book opposing intelligent design and debating several of its proponents. Now the man who wrote the 2004 book "God, the Devil, and Darwin: A Critique of Intelligent Design Theory" has moved from the state that put the teaching evolution on trial 80 years ago to Kansas, which currently is in the midst of its own debate about how evolution should be taught in public schools. Shanks recently took a job at Wichita State University, filling an endowed professorship that focuses on the history and philosophy of evolution." more here Boy, he's got guts anyway! I hope he gets an upstairs office in Fiske Hall, so it's harder to throw rocks thru his window. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: katlaughing Date: 29 Nov 05 - 10:31 AM Naw, JohninKS, he'll just send a plague of locusts! |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: Dave Masterson Date: 30 Nov 05 - 05:53 AM Mmm.. some interesting comments here. "Those whose minds are closed and locked…" "…so this crap doesn't have to be included immediately; and four of the six IDIOTS will have to run for re-election next year." "The notoriety Kansas is getting from this may be helpful in getting the BRAINWASHED BRAIN-DEAD BIGOTS off the Kansas School Board, so please keep the "jokes" going. And note that jokes are probably more effective than rational arguments, since those who've done it are completely immune to any rational or logical arguments." Hey folks, just take a step back and listen to yourselves. To an outsider from across the pond, these sorts of comments make the speakers sound just as brainwashed, brain-dead and bigoted as those they seek to criticise. Whilst I believe that it is wrong to force one's belief system upon another, to criticise by insult says far more about the critic than their opponent. We are all human beings and should give respect to others, whether we receive it back or not. To dismiss those with different views to oneself in the terms used in this thread is the first step on a similar journey that ended in the gas chambers of World War 2. For my part I do believe the Bible when it says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Whether we subsequently arrived at Wednesday 30th November 2005 by a process of biblical chronology or evolution I cannot say, nor am I particularly bothered. Neither science nor scripture can prove the truth of the matter beyond doubt. It is purely a matter of personal belief. We examine the available evidence and make our minds up accordingly. I became a Christian because God sufficiently revealed Himself to me to enable me to place my faith in Him. There are many things about my faith that I struggle with, and probably will do till the day I die. Creation vs. evolution is not one of them. My hope in this world is to show people Jesus, and to hope that a bit rubs off! Here endeth the sermon. Actually, evolutionism is just as much a statement of 'religious' belief as creationism, as they both say, albeit in different ways, 'In the beginning such and such happened', and both require an element of faith to believe. Perhaps the good old democratic USofA should ban them both! |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: Paul Burke Date: 30 Nov 05 - 07:33 AM "Actually, evolutionism is just as much a statement of 'religious' belief as creationism, as they both say, albeit in different ways, 'In the beginning such and such happened', and both require an element of faith to believe." Bollocks, evidence is what counts. Evolution is not RIGHT, but it fits the evidence better than anything else available at the moment. Creationism doesn't fit any of it. Yours is a typical response from the religious, when they've lost out on a point: hey, let's be tolerant, I'm entitled to my point of view. But the moment you get a sniff of power... Or perhaps if God had meant Christians to use their critical faculties, he'd have given them some. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: Bunnahabhain Date: 30 Nov 05 - 08:03 AM The problem is not the teaching of Intelligent design, it is the teaching of it as science, which it is not. It fails in various ways, such as not making testable predictions, and creating un-necessary entities( occams razor). Send this theory back to where it belongs and where it came from, the church. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: John P Date: 30 Nov 05 - 09:40 AM So, if this was designed by intelligence, I'm really pissed off. There is way too much pain, suffering, unneeded death, cruelty, and evil in this world. Aside from all the things we do to each other, nature is a real mother. I think we ought to rename it "malevolent design". I'm embarrassed to say that Seattle, where I live, also contains the Discovery Institute, the main architect and pusher of intelligent design. I hope their idiocy doesn't splatter on me. Actually I don't think the people who came up with it are idiots at all. They are liars. They don't really think I.D. is science. They are just using it to push their agenda. Wow, who'd a thunk it -- Christians who tell lies. Way to go, guys. I think our media bears a lot of responsibility for this mess. They report on intelligent design as if it made any sense. The Seattle Times recently ran a large op-ed piece written by one of the Discovery Institute honchos. I sent them a letter taking them to task for giving a microphone to a liar, but they didn't publish it. John Peekstok |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: Stilly River Sage Date: 30 Nov 05 - 11:31 AM Dave Masterson, you appear to have arrived at Mudcat on the Kansas Express, eh? We are all human beings and should give respect to others, whether we receive it back or not. To dismiss those with different views to oneself in the terms used in this thread is the first step on a similar journey that ended in the gas chambers of World War 2. That's rich. Construct a straw man and see if you can get people arguing about WWII gas chambers instead of the sleight of hand going on in Kansas and elsewhere when "Intelligent Design" is pushed down science teachers' throats. Christian fundamentalists want to dismiss hard science and replace it with THEIR religious beliefs. In this shell game, they are placing christian religion above the religious beliefs of others, but hope no one will notice because they all have their eyes on the shell that science is under. From this position I see that they ultimately hope for christian converts in the classroom, the demotion/demonization of other religions, and the control of science direction and funding. Your opinion that science is a "religious belief" is based upon your overheated exposure to over-zealous christianity. The attempt to pull Science onto religious turf is brought about by the frequent christian quoting of pseudo-scientific skeptics who claim to be in the sciences. This rejection of religion in the classroom was NEVER about the exclusion of religion in the life of scientific people or anyone else, and some of the best scientists of our day have been highly religious (i.e., Einstein, but wait--he's Jewish, and that's one of the things the "Intelligent Design" folks want to set aside, the viewpoints of other religions.) There are a lot of philosphical links between science and religion, but they're not the ones you're suggesting. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: Bill D Date: 30 Nov 05 - 12:07 PM "Actually, evolutionism is just as much a statement of 'religious' belief as creationism..." as others have just said, it most certainly is NOT! It simply doesn't work that way. It is just as easy to say the law of gravity is a 'religious belief'....but in that case, you can test the theory yourself...over & over, just as you can with applying heat to boil water...etc...etc. Evolution HAS been tested, explained and demonstrated in many ways. It is the process by which species change. Now, if you wish to believe that God started it and 'designed' the rules by which it works, fine. I can't DISprove that....I don't even try, as it can't be tested. I simply don't worry about it. You may have your 'faith', but do NOT confuse 'faith & belief' with the scientific method! |
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Subject: RE: BS: KansASS - idiots on the board of Ed From: John P Date: 01 Dec 05 - 12:43 AM Dave Masterson, You show a remarkable lack of knowledge of the theory of evolution if you think it has anything at all to say about what happened "in the beginning". It has a lot to say about what happened since. As you say, science can't have a lot to say about where it all began. Nothing can. I agree that insults are never a good way to discuss an issue, but over on this side of the pond we are far too often having to put up with religious bigots (and I use that word consciously, with it's dictionary definition) trying -- and sometimes succeeding -- to pass their religious beliefs into law. It gets old in a big hurry, and most of us are pretty resentful of having to fight that fight over and over and over again. And it is actually true that anyone who thinks intelligent design is by any stretch of the imagination science is either idiotic or ignorant or both. But I don't really think most of them believe it. Which makes many of them flaming hypocrites and liars. Saying that insulting people you disagree with is the same attitude that led to Hitler's Germany is going pretty far over the top. It makes you sound unreasonable, and makes it easy to dismiss anything of value you might have to say. You may want to take that into consideration next time. John Peekstok |
