BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Mar 18 - 11:27 AM


From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 03 Mar 18 - 09:43 AM

Dave,
You say other parties do not have the problem,

Lie. I have never said that and it is not my view.
If it is not a lie, quote me.

Ok. Here you go.


From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 02 Mar 18 - 02:21 PM

Dave,
Why are the members of the other political parties not following suit?

I suspect that it is because other parties do not have such a problem, as Labour did not until recent times.?

Right from the horses mouth. You said other political parties had no such problem and then, a need of hours later you deny ever having said it. You either have a memory issue or a split personality. Or, as we suspected all along, you are just an arsehole.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Mar 18 - 11:31 AM

Need of hours? Kindle - Talk sense.

A matter of hours

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Mar 18 - 01:45 PM

Jim,
You said nearl have the women labour Party members have complained you lied again

I said no such thing.
You have made that up or misread my post.

Steve,
Trivial? Ok then, it was an outright trivial lie.

No attempt to deceive so not a lie. I just did not word it as well as I might. I should have prefaced "parties" with "main." Everyone knows Greens and SNP have female leaders but they have played no part in this discussion. It would be a pointless deception.

Dave,
You said other political parties had no such problem and then

I did not. I said I suspected they did not have such a problem.
That means they might have a problem, but not so great.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Mar 18 - 01:52 PM

Squirm, squirm, squirm. It is obvious to a blind man on a flying horse what your meaning was. You have been found out in a lie and are now trying to wriggle out of it. Again.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 18 - 02:58 PM

"I said no such thing."
JEREMY CORBYN HAS BEEN ACCUSED BY NEARLY HALF THE FEMALE MPS IN HIS PARTY OF FAILING TO STOP THE "DISGUSTING AND TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE" ABUSE OF WOMEN BY HIS SUPPORTERS.
It really is time you sought help Keith
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 18 - 03:00 PM

Can we leave this feller to sink in his own swill lads, I really don't want to be around when they come for him!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Raggytash
Date: 03 Mar 18 - 04:22 PM

Couldn't agree more Jim.

I would suggest that nobody responds to his infantile posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 03:25 AM

Jim, that statement is a fact.
It is actually a quote from the Telegraph, but the story was in all the media.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/22/45-female-labour-mps-write-to-jeremy-corbyn-demanding-he-does-mo/

BBC,
"Over 40 female Labour MPs have written to party leader Jeremy Corbyn urging him to do more to tackle abuse of MPs.
The letter highlighted an "extremely worrying trend of escalating abuse and hostility" towards MPs in recent weeks.
Women were disproportionately affected by these "disgusting and totally unacceptable" incidents, it said."
"It continues: "We have also been alarmed to learn that our shadow chancellor and other members of the shadow cabinet have addressed rallies and events in which demonstrations outside MPs' offices and bullying at CLP meetings have been either actively encouraged or quietly condoned."
The letter asks Mr Corbyn to make three pledges including "an unequivocal statement declaring his support for all MPs, particularly women, and clearly condemning campaigning outside MPs' offices, surgeries etc".
It finishes: "Jeremy, this is being done in your name." "
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36864903

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 03:33 AM

Dave, you have become a devious and dishonest person.
You can not argue with what I say so you pretend I said something else.

"NOT SUCH A PROBLEM" DOES NOT MEAN THE SAME AS "NO SUCH PROBLEM"



I said "other parties do not have such a problem,"

I did not say, "other parties have no such problem."

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 03:49 AM

Ok.. I'll confidently state that it's entirely plausible that the tories have a much worse problem than all other parties,
and are the most devious masters of cover ups, closing ranks, and shifting the blame.....

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 03:54 AM

"Jim, that statement is a fact."
You denied ity - now you are lying on both counts
""Over 40 female Labour MPs have written to party "
"NEARLY HALF THE FEMALE MPS IN HIS PARTY"
Utterly and completely pathalogical
Nurse - the screens!!!!!!"
Think this just about finishes this feller - don't you lads?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 04:28 AM

There's a worm at the bottom of our garden and all that he can do is
Wriggle all day and wriggle all night...

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 04:38 AM

MORE TO THE POINT
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 06:58 AM

Jim,
"JEREMY CORBYN HAS BEEN ACCUSED BY NEARLY HALF THE FEMALE MPS IN HIS PARTY OF FAILING TO STOP THE "DISGUSTING AND TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE" ABUSE OF WOMEN BY HIS SUPPORTERS."

That is a direct quote from the Telegraph, and was widely covered in the media.
It is true.

Clearly it was too shocking for you and Rag to believe.
Now you know it is true, you will agree with me that Labour does have a serious problem with how it treats women.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 07:06 AM

Dave, you have degenerated into a devious and dishonest man.
You can not argue with what I say so you pretend I said something else.
despicable.

"I suspect that it is because other parties do not have such a problem, as Labour did not until recent times."

I do indeed suspect that, and I stand by it.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 07:10 AM

But when we argue with what you say you pretend you said something else. We're even in danger of being called obfuscating nitpickers when we put you right. A rather vulgar and largely fraudulent approach, Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 08:20 AM

For some odd reason Jim, his dementia is conflating what you and I post.

To date I have mentioned the Andrea Leadsome role, told Dave he was too generous, told Steve how much snow there was in my back garden, mentioned to you he doesn't know the difference between slander and libel, put a reference to an obscure post about the Irish border, cast doubt on his mental capability (losing it) and agreed with you that we should just ignore him. Not once have I given any opinion of the subject matter.

The behaviour of someone with advancing dementia to my mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 08:20 AM

Steve.
But when we argue with what you say you pretend you said something else.

Show where I have ever done that.
I never have.

What I said was, "I suspect that it is because other parties do not have such a problem, as Labour did not until recent times."

I do indeed suspect that, and I stand by what I said.

I also said, "JEREMY CORBYN HAS BEEN ACCUSED BY NEARLY HALF THE FEMALE MPS IN HIS PARTY OF FAILING TO STOP THE "DISGUSTING AND TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE" ABUSE OF WOMEN BY HIS SUPPORTERS."

That is a direct quote from the Telegraph, and was widely covered in the media.
It is true. I stand by it.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 08:24 AM

Rag,
For some odd reason Jim, his dementia is conflating what you and I post.

No. When Jim claimed my true statement was a lie, you said, "Couldn't agree more Jim."

So, you clearly did not believe it was true either.
Clearly it was too shocking for you and Jim to believe.
Now you know it is true, you will agree with me that Labour does have a serious problem with how it treats women.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 08:30 AM

Hi Jim, see what I mean.

You posted "Can we leave this feller to sink in his own swill lads, I really don't want to be around when they come for him!!! Jim Carroll"

I posted "Couldn't agree more Jim" and backed that statement up with "I would suggest that nobody responds to his infantile posts"

Like I suggested dementia.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 08:32 AM

Rag and Steve
This has become about this maniac, which is how he works
We really are not qualified to deal with somebody with Keith's problems
If we want to keep this subject, let's move on and leave him to his specialists - anybody who turns child rape, and sexual abuse of women into a politcal campaign no behalf of his party is beyond reason - stay away from him - it might beinfectious
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 08:58 AM

Moving on
Sexual harassment i Westminster is no different to any other section of society - it is a manifestation of the influential, powerful - or even just strong, wielding their power over those less powerful or weaker
Clerical abuse, Savile, Weinstock.... are all examples of this - abuse to obtain sex - or just to display 'superiority'.
It has always happened in every section of society and today's revelations are a sign that (hopefully) it is coming to an end and women are beginning to assert themselves as equal human beings
Pretending this is anything else is just a sick gamer
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 09:01 AM

With regard to the subject matter that some would have us believe is a mainly Labour issue.

Conservative Impropriety????

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 10:30 AM

Raggy that link asks me to disable my adblocker, sorry I will not do that for anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 11:25 AM

I cannot explain that David, I've just checked it now with no problem. Could I suggest that you try again or look up the article that uk.businessinsider.com under politics.

Cheers

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 11:32 AM

I got the same thing Raggy - tried to unblock it but it wouldn't listen - like one of our contributors (time for the drain-rods in the case of the latter)!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 11:32 AM

I got the same thing Raggy - tried to unblock it but it wouldn't listen - like one of our contributors (time for the drain-rods in the case of the latter)!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 12:36 PM

so you pretend I said something else.
despicable.

I am not pretending anything. It is what you said and it is there for all to see. It is you who are being despicabley dishonest and you will just Not stop digging yourself further in.

Not often you see that. Barking mad wrigley worm.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 12:49 PM

Dave,
It is what you said and it is there for all to see

Yes, and hear it is again.

"I suspect that it is because other parties do not have such a problem, as Labour did not until recent times."

No wriggling from me Dave.
I do indeed suspect that, and I stand by it.

The reason I think other parties do not have such a problem is that

A.Their women MPs do not write en-masse to complain like Labour's do, and

B. Because there is a "Labour Too" movement but no equivalent for any other party.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 12:59 PM

Jim,
Please continue to re-post my factual statements in huge red capitals for me.
It must greatly increase their impact.

And Rag, please continue your support by telling Jim how much you agree.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 01:15 PM

He really is a misguided infantile little person isn't he.

This is despite being shown that I only agreed with Jim's statement:

"Can we leave this feller to sink in his own swill lads, I really don't want to be around when they come for him!!!"

That is there in black and white for all to see and still he continues to try and suggest otherwise.

I really do think he is in the throes of dementia, a dementia that is getting worse by the day.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 01:19 PM

Let's make this clear
The persecution of women is as old as history itself - it is a social rather than a political phenomenon
It is a practice carried out by MEN of all political persuasions or none at all
THe only political aspect of the act is that used by our own wee jobbie who wishes to score political points for his party he has used Muslims Travellers and Irish children for the same twisted reason
Any political difference lies in the actions of the political parties in ending this practice - Corbyn has attemptedt ot stop it - up to now, May has "stood by her ministers" when the practice has been uncovered - Damien Green the porno liar being a typical example
When an investigation was carried out, the Government watered it down before making it public
The "rising star" the Tory party has made her own position clear - those who have complained are oversensitive prudes- doen't auger well for women in her party
Sexual harassment is part of our unequal society - philosophically he is making the right noises in wanting to make our society a more equal one - hopefully he will continue to do so (hence his unpopularity with the right
Right-wing politics is based on an unequal society - it relies on a subservient population who will allow themselves to be used by the priveleged.   
Keith is fairly typical of teh right - he leaps to teh defence of Poorno-king Greene and is happy to use raped and persecuted women as an election campaign - 'vote for us - the other side are all molesters and rapists'
His behaviour makes him as culpable of the most serious sex pest
Keith
Go stuff your obnoxious and lying tactics up as far as you can
You are sick
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 01:19 PM

Let's make this clear
The persecution of women is as old as history itself - it is a social rather than a political phenomenon
It is a practice carried out by MEN of all political persuasions or none at all
THe only political aspect of the act is that used by our own wee jobbie who wishes to score political points for his party he has used Muslims Travellers and Irish children for the same twisted reason
Any political difference lies in the actions of the political parties in ending this practice - Corbyn has attemptedt ot stop it - up to now, May has "stood by her ministers" when the practice has been uncovered - Damien Green the porno liar being a typical example
When an investigation was carried out, the Government watered it down before making it public
The "rising star" the Tory party has made her own position clear - those who have complained are oversensitive prudes- doen't auger well for women in her party
Sexual harassment is part of our unequal society - philosophically he is making the right noises in wanting to make our society a more equal one - hopefully he will continue to do so (hence his unpopularity with the right
Right-wing politics is based on an unequal society - it relies on a subservient population who will allow themselves to be used by the priveleged.   
Keith is fairly typical of teh right - he leaps to teh defence of Poorno-king Greene and is happy to use raped and persecuted women as an election campaign - 'vote for us - the other side are all molesters and rapists'
His behaviour makes him as culpable of the most serious sex pest
Keith
Go stuff your obnoxious and lying tactics up as far as you can
You are sick
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 01:27 PM

other parties do not have such a problem

Interpretation by Keith "They do have a problem but it is not as bad."

Interpretation by the rest of the world. "Other parties do not have a problem."

Different morality
Different language
Different planet

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 03:05 PM

Keith: "The reason I think other parties do not have such a problem is that A.Their women MPs do not write en-masse to complain like Labour's do, and B. Because there is a "Labour Too" movement but no equivalent for any other party."

Keith, I would draw the exact opposite conclusion from the evidence you provided. If we accept your inference, then by parity of reasoning, present-day, democratic countries with strong feminist movements are the setting for the exponentially greatest frequency of sexual harassment in recorded history.

To take a recent example, in the 90s, when women accused Bill Clinton of sexual harassment there was no groundswell of Democratic women picking up the torches and pitchforks to oppose his nomination--and renomination. Are you going to tell me with a straight face that was because there wasn't any back then?

Protest and ruckus swell not when conditions are worst, but when there is some hope of change. I apologize for repeating a truism, but it seems necessary.

Similarly, in the US, senior legislator John Conyers and Boy-Wonder Senator Al Franken, both Democratic heroes, were forced out by their own party, while Republican intra-party pressure on alleged child abusers and serial wife beaters has been slight, tardy, and reluctant.

The absence of a coordinated protest among Tory women in light of . . . well, reality, is chilling to me, not reassuring.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 03:16 PM

Thank you for providing the cold light of reason in the heat of the current discussion, Jackaroodave. I have tried to put across the same point but not as eloquently on a number of occasions with reference to accusations of a similar type in the past. Hopefully, as you do not have a history of conflict with Keith, your argument may be taken on board.

Sadly, I doubt it but thanks again anyway.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 03:45 AM

As the link I placed yesterday seemed to be giving trouble to several people I have copied the article from Business Insider.

Westminster engulfed in growing scandal as nearly 40 MPs, including Cabinet and former Cabinet ministers, are accused of inappropriate behaviour including sexual harassment.
Dossier put together by Westminster researchers accuses MPs of sexual harassment, unwanted advances and extramarital sex with parliamentary staff.
Theresa May and government whips were allegedly aware of allegations made against Conservative MPs.
Four Labour MPs are also accused and the party fears more will emerge.


LONDON — Theresa May is under pressure to explain exactly when she knew about the scale of the growing sexual harassment scandal in Parliament after dozens of Tory MPs were engulfed in allegations of unwanted sexual advances and behaving inappropriately towards members of staff.

A group of Westminster researchers have put together a list of nearly 40 Conservative MPs, including several members of May's Cabinet, who have had allegations made against them over the last five years, according to The Times.

The prime minister has been aware of the allegations, The Times claims, because government whips have been giving her weekly briefings on accusations made against her MPs by Westminster employees. May's spokesperson will this morning face questions from journalists about exactly what the prime minister knew and when.

The scandal is expected to spread over the coming days with at least four Labour MPs also accused of harassing young women who work in Westminster, including two who have at some point served in leader Jeremy Corbyn's shadow Cabinet.


May has written to the House of Commons Speaker, John Bercow, urging him to establish a mediation service for Westminster staff wanting to report the inappropriate behaviour of MPs, the Guardian reports.

The Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority has recommended that a grievance procedure is incorporated in contracts of Westminster employees, providing them with a means of raising concerns and complaints.

However, MPs are technically self-employed, meaning they are not legally obliged to provide this outlet to their employees.

"It does not have the required teeth as contractually an MP does not have to follow the procedure. I do not believe this situation can be tolerated any longer," the prime minister said in a letter to Bercow.

What are MPs accused of?
The dossier, seen by The Times, includes a long list of allegations against 37 serving male and female MPs, including sexual harassment and extramarital affairs. Those named in the list include:

A long-serving Conservative backbencher accused of being "perpetually intoxicated and very inappropriate with women."
A Tory MP who is alleged to have agreed a "non-disclosure" settlement with another MP's researcher.
A current Cabinet minister who is accused of being "handsy at parties" and another minister who has allegedly been nicknamed "Cop-a-feel."
Other allegations include two MPs accused of getting their mistresses pregnant and two Tory MPs accused of using prostitutes. A well-known female MP is alleged to have had affairs with young male researchers. There is also a video in circulation of a Conservative backbencher engaged in an "extreme sex act" with three men, the dossier alleges.

The Guardian reports that rumours are spreading of one Conservative MP who "allegedly takes pictures of young men in compromising positions and uses them to extract sexual favours."

The allegations include mainly Conservative politicians but Labour MPs believe more will emerge within their party.

"We’re not going to be immune from it," Labour MP Lucy Powell said. "It’s the attitudes and the power inequalities, whether it’s Hollywood, the BBC or Westminster."

Westminster figures believe the allegations, plus more that may emerge in the coming days and weeks, could trigger several high-profile resignations and possibly bring the government down.

What MPs have been named?
Two Conservative MPs named in the dossier have already admitted to allegations made against them.

Trade minister Mark Garnier is facing a parliamentary investigation after admitting to asking one his assistants to purchase sex toys for him.

Stephen Crabb, the former work and pensions secretary, apologised over the weekend after admitting sending inappropriate text messages to a 19-year-old woman who had hoped to work in his office. Crabb described the messages as "sexual chatter." Crabb was forced to quit his Cabinet position last year after it emerged that he sent explicit messages to a young woman during the EU referendum campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 03:51 AM

Nice one Jack a definite "wish I'd said that"
I'm look forward to watching The Oscars some time this week with all those lovely 'ladies in black' (including the wonderful Frances McDormand, who prefers to put her anger into words and wear what she likes)
It's about time this anger filtered down to every layer of society
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 04:50 AM

Dave,
Interpretation by the rest of the world. "Other parties do not have a problem."

That is bollocks.
No-one would interpret "not such a problem" as "no problem."

You just can not answer what I say so pretend I said something else.

Jim,
Keith
Go stuff your obnoxious and lying tactics

If I have lied, quote me.
Good luck with that, liar.

Jackaroo,
Your argument requires that women from other parties are being abused and raped but keeping quiet about it.
They would not, and as evidence I would point out that a few have made complaints and action has been taken.
Labour women complain that they are ignored.

Rag, Dave posted that story on 28Feb and later gave a link.
It was also in my first BBC link posted on first March.

Try actually reading instead of just sniping from the sidelines.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 05:06 AM

It would seem that some people cannot see the truth when it is right in front of them. For example "other parties do not have such a problem"

The Conservatives have 316 Mp's 37 of whom are subject to allegations of sexual impropriety. More than 1 in 10.

Labour have 259 MP's 4 of whom are subject to allegations of sexual impropriety. Less than 1 in 60.

It would seem that the Conservatives have a far bigger problem than than Labour, seemingly at least 6 times greater.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 05:18 AM

Rag, that story is restricted to MPs.
The 43 Labour women MPs and Labour Too are addressing behaviour by all party members.

BI lifted that whole story from the Times.
See the original here,
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/dirty-dossier-accuses-mps-of-harassment-and-sex-in-offices-6f7q8kn8b

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 05:23 AM

That is bollocks.
No-one would interpret "not such a problem" as "no problem."

But you did not say "not such a problem" did you. You said "other parties do not have such a problem" - Different thing altogether which I and many others would interpret as the other parties do not have the same problem.

Stop digging and wriggling.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 05:26 AM

The thread is entitled Sexual Impropriety at WESTMINSTER.

When someone can come up with figures from elsewhere it can then, and only then, be considered and discussed. It is pure conjecture at the moment.

What is FACT is that the Conservatives have a far bigger problem than Labour.

Once again someone is seeking to move the goalposts when they have lost an argument. No change there.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 05:31 AM

According to Keefyboy if you are a member of the Labour party you are more likely to be a rabid antisemitic rapist than if you belong to any other political party. I suppose I should either give up my membership or go and shoot myself now.

By the same logic, because there are very few complaints about the abuse of Women or antisemitism in, say, Pakistan or Saudi Arabia then there must be fewer incidents relating to these in those countries.

Barking mad.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 06:20 AM

If I have lied, quote me.
""Over 40 female Labour MPs have written to party " (a lie)
"I said no such thing." (another lie)
"It is true." - a complete reversal
" "JEREMY CORBYN HAS BEEN ACCUSED BY OF FAILING TO STOP THE "DISGUSTING AND TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE" ABUSE OF WOMEN BY HIS SUPPORTERS." - a lie
You claimed the telegraph claimed "NEARLY HALF THE FEMALE MPS IN HIS PARTY" complained - in fact the Telegraph claimed that 42 members did - women labour party members number into the 100 thousands - over 100 in parliament (more than double the Conservative women - which says everything about how conservatives regard women) you misquoted the Telegraph - you lied
You have just deliberately misquotes Jackaroo
"Your argument requires that women from other parties are being abused and raped but keeping quiet about it."
What he actually said was that Labour women have a mechanism to complain about abuse - Conservative women have nos such voice - again, you lied
You have lied from start to finish on this question
Will that do for now?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 06:31 AM

Keith: "Your argument requires that women from other parties are being abused and raped but keeping quiet about it. They would not, and as evidence I would point out that a few have made complaints and action has been taken. Labour women complain that they are ignored."

Keith, by denying that women will keep quiet about abuse and rape, you simply disqualify yourself from discussing the phenomenon.

I think the article posted by Raggytash is sufficient rebuttal, but I would add that the Me Too movement and the current news are replete with stories of rape and harassment that occurred years ago and which describe a culture of harassment that existed for decades.

As Jim Carroll pointed out, this culture is endemic where men wield disproportionate power. Time will tell if the British party of tradition and privilege is the world's sole exception.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 06:39 AM

Dave, no wriggling from me.
I stand by what I said.

You are talking bollocks.
No-one would interpret "other parties do not have such a problem" as "other parties have no problem.

I said what I said.
The meaning is clear.
You have made yourself foolish.

According to Keefyboy if you are a member of the Labour party you are more likely to be a rabid antisemitic rapist than if you belong to any other political party.

Again you resort to lying about me because your case is rubbish.

Jim,
""Over 40 female Labour MPs have written to party " (a lie)

It is a fact Jim and I have proved it with media quotes.
Please put it in huge red capitals again.

"I said no such thing." (another lie)

Another truth. I had not said what I was accused of saying. You lied.

" "JEREMY CORBYN HAS BEEN ACCUSED BY OF FAILING TO STOP THE "DISGUSTING AND TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE" ABUSE OF WOMEN BY HIS SUPPORTERS." - a lie

A truth Jim. Again please use bigger and redder capitals.

Proof of truth, BBC,
"Over 40 female Labour MPs have written to party leader Jeremy Corbyn urging him to do more to tackle abuse of MPs.
The letter highlighted an "extremely worrying trend of escalating abuse and hostility" towards MPs in recent weeks.
Women were disproportionately affected by these "disgusting and totally unacceptable" incidents, it said.
Leadership rival Owen Smith has accused Mr Corbyn of not doing enough to clamp down on "intolerance and misogyny"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36864903

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 06:52 AM

Isn't it strange Dave that MORE than one in ten Conservative MP's have had allegations made against them yet Labour MP's who have LESS than one in sixty allegations made against them have a bigger problem.

You do the maths for me would you and let me know who has the greater problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 06:53 AM

Jackaroo,

Thanks. It is a refreshing change to be able to exchange views without being abused, accused of lying and told my words mean something else.

Keith, by denying that women will keep quiet about abuse and rape, you simply disqualify yourself from discussing the phenomenon.

I would not deny it.
It happens because of terrible circumstances.

The circumstances of female Labour and Tory politicians are very similar and I would like to know why one should be less likely to complain than the other.

I think the article posted by Raggytash is sufficient rebuttal

it is a rebuttal of your suggestion that Tory women do not complain.
They clearly do.

However, only Labour women MPs need to write en-masse to complain to their leadership, and there is a "Labour Too" movement but no equivalent for any other party.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 07:02 AM

Don't know about you Jackaroo but it seems to me that someone is clutching at straws and trying to move the goal posts.

Not really addressing the FACT that the Conservative party has a bigger problem as CLEARLY demonstrated by my link.