Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)

Subject: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 09:25 AM

I will not be watching the 'presidential debates' because
a) They are not debates
b) They are so staged as to eliminate any candidate interaction
c) Both President Bush and Senator Kerry have large public and official records on which to base a vote
d) The length and form of the questions usually tell more about the questioner than the (non)answer tells about the candidate.
So tonight I will read a book of short fiction (how apropos!) and listen to some good ballads.---John

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: kendall
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 09:28 AM

While I agree with you, I will watch if only to get ammo for more bitching!

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Peace
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 09:42 AM

Kendall,

Watch 'em good. Now you can bitch about the Bush that is; after January 20, 2005, you can bitch about the Bush that was. I'll join you.

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 10:32 AM

This is BS, get it.

eric

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 10:55 AM

No cable, and I live in too small a town to get TV stations without cable... otherwise I'd watch and get, probably really really irritated.

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 11:03 AM

It sounds to me a bit like our ongoing labour Party Conference, stage managed and news manipulated. George Bush Snr doesn't believe in them, says they are showbiz not politics, and he should know.
Giok

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 11:15 AM

I'm actually hoping that it will be shown over here in the UK.

At the same time, I'm thoroughly grateful that we haven't been saturated with having to see the mugs of Bush/Kerry on virtually an hourly basis as must be the case back in the States.

But for interesting "theatre of the absurd", this should be a good watch.

..xx..e

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 11:22 AM

Those without tv but who have Internet access can no doubt get it streamed from C-SPAN.

SRS

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 11:46 AM

I will be watching. You can never tell what might happen. Benson's riposte to Quayle's attempt to equate himself with JFK
(". . . you're no John Kennedy!") was totally unexpected, and it was devastating. Even within the asinine rules they've set up, rabbits may be lurking in hats. If so, I want to be there.

Besides, it was Bush who insisted on most of the rules, such as hiding the two of them behind lecterns so that people can't see he's standing on a step-ladder so the 6'4" Kerry won't tower over him. Bush is, indeed, a skilled debater—as long as he is well-rehearsed. But he hates questions he hasn't seen before and has a tendency to either babble incoherently or lose his temper when the unexpected happens. He also insisted that the camera not be on him to pick up his reactions while Kerry is talking, to avoid being seen with his "deer-in-the-headlights" look.

Oh, yes! I'll be watching.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: PoppaGator
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 11:47 AM

None for me, thanks.

The last interesting presidential-candidate debate was the first one, Kennedy vs. Nixon. And even then, it wasn't really a debate, just a pair of parallel opposing stage-managed news confrences.

I've already made up my mind anyway, and will do my little part in the effort to oust Bush. I wish I could work up a little enthusiasm for Kerry, who I admired 30 years ago much more than I do now. Plus, I live in a state whose electoral votes will probably go Republican whatever I do.

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 12:11 PM

Don...I saw press releases last night that said that almost all the networks refused to be bound by 'rules' like Bush wants about camera angles and such...They as much as said "you guys talk, we'll decide how to present it".....

let's see how THAT plays out!

I may not watch anyway, because I'd be yelling at the screen, "No, John...say it THIS way!"....and "Crap, George, I can't believe you're still using that tired cliché!"

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 12:50 PM

Someway, somewhere, I will be watching. I don't have a television at home, other than a borrowed one that gets only one station, so unless some friend calls and suggests that I watch at their home, I won't see it on TV.

Thanks for the reminder, Stilly River Sage; if nothing else, I'll be watching it on the C-Span stream.

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 01:02 PM

"No audience reaction shots" I gather. Though of course any TV broadcaster with any imagination would have a studio audience, and show their reactions...

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 01:50 PM

I saw a piece on the news last night about how both candidates were trying to elimate shots of whoever wasn't speaking. They had a clip from a Bush/Gore debate which showed Gore sighing and expressing something akin to "Oh cripes...not THAT tired old crap again." I remember it, and I think it was important to see it. Personally, I was thinking "bullshit," but Gore's non-comment was more eloquent. The news guys said it was embarrassing to Gore, but I was watching FOX News. Somehow, I think it was really embarrassing to only Bush. If the candidates aren't going to interact at all, at least they could use body language to comment. (Which is probably the primary reason one or both don't want it shown.)

I'm gonna watch, just out of curiousity about what's going to go wrong.

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 02:16 PM

I'm going to pop a big bowl of popcorn, gather the kids, and we are going to watch this unfurl. This will be great theatre!!!

By the way, I believe CSPN will give you the pool feed from the site. This is the feed that both candidates have agreed upon, and it is the feed that the broadcasters agreed upon.   I would not expect to see audience shots or candidate reactions.

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Nerd
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 02:45 PM

Jeri,

The sigh that you mention is exactly why both sides want to eliminate this kind of shot. Gore was hammered repeatedly in the press for it, starting with Fox but moving on to all the other channels. His "arrogance" became the second Republican talking point, after his "mendacity" because he didn't remember which FEMA official he was with at which disaster site.

What the Republicans have figured out is that the story that gets told ABOUT the debate in the press is far more important than the debate itself. Not that many people will watch the debate tonight, but everyone will hear what the AP says about it tomorrow morning. So this kind of reaction shot can look fine to you, but if the AP says "The Bush campaign points to Gore's sighing and rolling of his eyes as a sign that the Vice President is arrogant," THAT's what people will take away from it.

So it may have seemed more embarassing to Bush, but it did Gore a lot of damage. In fact, Gore ended a recent editorial in the NY Times by saying that the format of the debates is "enough to make you, well, sigh," in a clear indication that that single second of sighing was one of the defining moments of the 2000 debates.

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 02:49 PM

Agree with the first post, it says it all for me. Plus, the fluff in my bellybutton is more interesting than the debates. And it doesn't lie.

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 02:54 PM

(hello there, you! long time no see... )

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 02:55 PM

If arrogance loses debates or elections, Bush is toast

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Amos
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 02:59 PM

Only if it is truthfully labeled as arrogance in the media. If they put their heads in dark places and label it "leadership" or "sticking to it" he is just crumby but we're the toast.

A

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Nerd
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 03:03 PM

Right, Amos.

Again, it's not whether you are arrogant, it's whether the press will say you are arrogant. In terms of the actual content of the debate, the most important thing is who looks smooth and unruffled and makes people feel good about them. Also, who speaks well in sound bites, since this is what people will actually hear.

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 03:15 PM

It all comes down to who can come up with the best sound bite one-liners that Americans will hear and believe. The Republicans are banking on getting a lot of misinformation into hyperspace, because once it is there, there are far too many Americans who will vote according not to sensible reasons but to what they perceive as the "truth" behind those gimmicky lines. There are people on both sides who are making informed decisions, but Karl Rove is relying uneducated Americans to carry through and vote blindly based on his catchy slogans.

SRS

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 03:18 PM

It's strange isn't it - it's then same with politicians making speeches or interviews, people watch something, and then the commentators come in and tell them what they have watched, and what matters isn't what they saw for themselves, but what they are told they saw. And of course most people don't actually see the original anyways, except at most a couple of snippets.

You can guarantee that, whatever happens, the people who like Bush will say he triumphed, and the people who don't like him will say he was an embarrassment, and the same way for Kerry. That's what will happen here too.

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Amos
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 03:26 PM

That's a sound prediction. It happened in 2000 -- Bush was "fiated" as a winner even though to reasoning humans he was trounced by Al Gore's intelligence at every turn.

A

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 03:39 PM

First- these are not debates.   Just a bunch of press releases from either candidate strung together.

Second- It is much ado about nothing.   Look at the results from the last 20 years of debates.   On average, polls have moved 1 point after the debate.   ONE STINKING POINT.    All this hype for almost no movement.    Reagan got lost on highway A1A during his closing speech and still won in a landslide.

Third- it will be painfull but I will try to watch the "debate".   I don't know if I can stomache the whole 90 minutes.

Last- No matter what happens, both sides will claim victory, and the press will report that the race is tightening.

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 03:42 PM

I have Internet but no sound, so streaming isn't going to help - luckily! Takes the decision right off my mind, eh.

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 04:06 PM

Not wanting to watch the debates is really turning your back on a great American event. You can ridicule it all you want, but really you are the one who is missing out on something historical, even if nothing happens.

What is arrogant, is not watching it if you have the capabilities.

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 04:13 PM

I've already made up my mind as to who I'm going to vote for (care to take three guesses?), but I intend to watch every minute of the debates, including the one between Edwards and Cheney. Stage-managed or not, that has the potential of being a real doozy!

Years ago I found that I could really rely on Judith Crist, the resident movie reviewer for TV Guide at the time. If she hated a movie, I knew I would like it. If she liked a movie, I knew that I would find it outright putrid. Negative information is still information.

Therefore, one of the reasons I'm going to watch the "debates," even if they are completely stage-managed and rehearsed, is to make my own assessment as the show goes along, and then compare my assessment with what the press does with it. You may not hear all that much new in the "debates," but it can give you a few clues about various news reporters, commentators, and news services. And that, in itself, is worth knowing.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 04:18 PM

From what I read in the newspaper today the networks said that they will not adhere to the non-reaction shot rule---but will not show the audience shots--as agreed upon.

We won't, however, I suspect get the memorable moments one got before--The Reagan comment--There you go again, The Bentsen comment re: You're No JFK.   But----who knows. Might be nice to have a surprise.

Surely not a debate---more of the usual sound byte type of thing--exactly what W likes. Lincoln / Douglas this it will not be.

But,that said, were I home this evening I would watch---I guess there will be a re run on CSPAN


Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 05:26 PM

I'm going to hang drapes tonight. Next Tuesday and Thursday I plan to go fencing.

I'm not going to watch because (ahem!) I've already voted.

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: annamill
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 05:27 PM

I have to start my new job tonight, damnit! or I'd watch it. Here is a link the the actual rules set up for tonights fight. There seems to be some misinfo going around.

Clarifyin' the rules set for tonight.

Love,Annamill

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 05:37 PM

Martin Gibson, give us a break. "Something historical"? Well, if I lived in the US I might agree with you (and even then not too sure, given the debate's minimal impact on voters). But out here, with 6 hours difference and other fish to fry closer to home like what will happen to the British hostage, the US presidential debate's significance fades fast.

Important, OK, I'll agree. For some people at least. Historical? I doubt the world's history books will refer to it.

The result of the election - now THAT's what's important. The posturing before is just politics.

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 05:53 PM

I sigh for the good old days when the League of Women Voters ran it and it was a real debate.

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 05:58 PM

With all these ground rules, why do they even have them in teh same studio? They might as well be be in opposite sides of the country.

Is there a Sesame Street version of it? Might be more enlightening.

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 05:59 PM

El Greko, I don't give a flying fuck if you watch it or not.

You don't live here and you don't vote. Please go watch an old Dr. Who rerun or something else just as cheesy.

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 06:20 PM

Now THAT's entertainment (not)!
Glad to have saved you a flying fuck, Martin.

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 06:23 PM

Don,

Your reasoning helps tip the scales more in favor of watching the debate. But if we get too grossed out by Dubya, I have a couple of movies I borrowed from the library today. We'll choose one of those to fill the remainder of the evening.

SRS

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 06:58 PM

Dick Greenhaus: Amen---LOWV--those were proper debates

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 07:01 PM

You and me both, Dick, you and me both!

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 10:13 PM

I gagged and turned on the movie. The "debate" is taping in the other room and I might go back and watch it later, but I just can't stand to spoil dinner listening to Bush send out his spiteful little quips, despite their own rules to not exchange remarks between themselves.

I'm glad to see someone else remembers the League of Women Voters. And remember: In Texas, the last day to register to vote in the next election is Monday, October 4.

SRS

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 10:46 PM

I just did watch about half the debate. Comments: Kerry looks and comes across better than I expected he would. Good presence. Interesting. Bush looks and acts tired, but that is not uncommon after 4 years of being president of the USA.

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 10:55 PM

It was a little more entertaining than I thought it would be. The recap on Fox (on FOX!!!) has Kerry winning. Joe Scarborough himself pointed out that Bush fumbled and was repetitive - said "it's hard work" 11 times. About the 5th time, I thought maybe I should have been counting, but he did it for me.

One humorous moment was when Kerry was talking about needing more funding for US police and fire departments. Bush answered something like "Where are we gonna get the money? Have you thought of that?" His very next comment was about how X billion dollars was recently approved to fund these activities in Iraq. Plus, Kerry can pronounce 'nuclear' and Bush can't. Kerry gets bonus points for that.

One of the main things I got out of this was the fact that Bush feels it shows weakness to re-evaluate a situation. I got the feeling that he'd just keep on sloggin' accross that river no matter how many clues he got that maybe it was over his head. (Yes, 'Waist Deep in the Big Muddy' was playing VERY loudly in my mind.)

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Amos
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 11:06 PM

My estimate is Kerry won by 5% or maybe 10, not more. Bush handled himself better than I hoped, for which I begrudgingly gave him a little respect. It was telling that Bush had no concept of what Kerry meant by passing the global test on international decisions, being strictly an us-versus-them sorta guy.

A

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 11:42 PM

Here are the registration deadlines for all fifty states. Some of you are almost out of time.

SRS

Subject: RE: Why I Will Not Watch the Debate (s)
From: GUEST,bbc at work
Date: 01 Oct 04 - 11:24 AM

I only heard them each saying one thing. Kerry said that Bush got us into a war too quickly, w/o thinking it through. Bush said that Kerry changes his position on issues too often. Since we had all heard those statements before, numerous times, the rest was pretty boring.

IMHO,

bbc