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BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 16 Jan 26 - 06:31 AM And that was 400. Unless someone gets deleted ;) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 16 Jan 26 - 06:57 AM it becomes a problem when the right and far right are blurred in the Overton window, and moderate conservatism becomes the new left/centre left. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 16 Jan 26 - 07:44 AM The LibDems have a big policy difference - They openly say they will return to the EU. Whether that will benefit of hinder then is another matter! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 16 Jan 26 - 08:49 AM I’m seriously considering voting for the Lib-Dems in the next GE, on the basis that neither the Tories, nor Labour in its present form, are worth voting for, the Greens have zero chance of ever holding power, and I will do absolutely anything - ANYTHING - to keep Deform UK out of power. I briefly made the acquaintance of our Mayor - Deform’s Andrea Jenkyns - in our local Tesco the other day -I was going into the Gents as she was entering the Ladies! She was very personable and shook my hand as we exchanged pleasantries before going our separate ways, but my opinion of Deform UK and their members hasn’t changed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 16 Jan 26 - 09:12 AM I hope she had washed her hands :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: The Sandman Date: 16 Jan 26 - 10:22 AM the lib dems pointless? bullshit They are pro Europe.and get a lot of , they are also pro PR "and shook my hand and exchanged pleasantries" quote sounds like one of those double entendre songs |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 16 Jan 26 - 11:11 AM They are pro Europe.and get a lot of , they are also pro PR I don't know what it means that they get a lot of 'comma'. As for them being 'pro PR', yes. Everything Ed Davey does seems to be about Public Relations. I accept that 'PR' can also refer to Proportional Representation. But I have commented on the clarity of posts here before. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 16 Jan 26 - 12:07 PM ”I hope she had washed her hands :-)” Ha! We were both on our way IN to our respective conveniences, so no problem! ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: The Sandman Date: 16 Jan 26 - 12:24 PM they are pro proportional represntation [PR].They are also in favour of rejoining the EU anyone who is not a nit picker or pedant Understands the subject is europe in a political rather than geographical sense. Nigel you are being a troll, as well as a nitpicking pedant, get a life |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 16 Jan 26 - 12:44 PM they are pro proportional represntation [PR] You could have said that initially. They are pro Europe.and get a lot of , Still no answer about what you mean by saying that they get a lot of 'comma' Yes, I am a pedant, I have never denied it. I am not a troll. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Raggytash Date: 16 Jan 26 - 01:13 PM Do you know Nigel there are times when your pedantry can be quite amusing :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 16 Jan 26 - 01:21 PM Yes Raggy, despite all I’m warming to Ol’ Nigel too! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 16 Jan 26 - 06:57 PM You missed a comma BWM :-D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Raggytash Date: 16 Jan 26 - 07:08 PM Nah Dave, you're incorrect. Commer were a British vehicle manufacturer from 1905 until 1979, they also made diesel engines. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 16 Jan 26 - 07:26 PM Commer, (Known for their vans) specialised in 'Commer(cial)' vehicles. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 17 Jan 26 - 02:55 AM Mea Culpa! Mea Culpa! Mea Maxima Culpa! I shall say ten ‘Hail Mary’s’ and three ‘Our Fathers’, and pray for forgiveness… |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 17 Jan 26 - 05:40 AM Alternatively pedantry is just a diversionary technique use din order to avoid discussing the substantive issue. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 17 Jan 26 - 06:53 AM Yep, pots and kettles spring to mind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Stilly River Sage Date: 17 Jan 26 - 10:37 AM If you can't post your own thoughts and words or quote from reputable sources, don't post Sandman. AI is a lazy cheap way to participate here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 17 Jan 26 - 11:17 AM Robert Jenrick (a.k.a. ‘Honest’ Bobby Jenrick) is the MP for Newark - which makes him the only MP whose constituency is an anagram of his own description. ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: The Sandman Date: 17 Jan 26 - 12:47 PM They are my own thoughts, I happen to agree with the AI analysis. Then use your own words. We don't need no stinking AI. ---mudelf |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 17 Jan 26 - 02:26 PM The greens should be opposed to AI because of the resources used to power it. Ai can be a good thing when used to improve the world but using it for trivial purposes is extremely wasteful. May as well take a jumbo jet to your local Tescos! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 17 Jan 26 - 03:18 PM Sandman: "you say it is cheap. incorrect again, it is no more expensive for me than quoting from the loop,or from other internet sources" If you wish to argue that something is not 'cheap' you need an argument that explains that it is no LESS expensive. Otherwise you are just confirming the previous claim, Please try to keep up, and use the English language as it stands, not as you might wish it to stand. Please also keep your responses in this thread. PMs just keep your ridiculous comments out of the discussion, unless I choose to share them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 17 Jan 26 - 03:28 PM SPB: Alternatively pedantry is just a diversionary technique use din order to avoid discussing the substantive issue. Or else pedantry is a way to hold to account those who use a sloppy version of the English language, which sometimes allows them to claim they've been misquoted, or misunderstood. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 17 Jan 26 - 05:36 PM Don't worry Nigel. Welcome to the stupid PMs club ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Raggytash Date: 17 Jan 26 - 05:48 PM I'm very tempted to share the PM I received. You are not alone wwoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Sandman is going to take a little break from all of this until he gets back on his meds. ---mudelf |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 18 Jan 26 - 02:01 PM Dave: Don't worry Nigel. Welcome to the stupid PMs club ;-) Is that the one with Sir Keir? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 18 Jan 26 - 03:48 PM Meanwhile, back to the topic of the thread. Here’s Jack Dart’s Substack analysis of the position the the post-Brexit UK now finds itself in regarding Trump’s threats and bullying over his intention to ‘acquire’, by fair means or foul, the island of Greenland. Very astute, I believe he has his finger right on the pulse… ”Britain Must Rejoin the EU, Trump Has Shown How Weak We Are Alone. Trump’s tariffs and imperial bullying have exposed the lie of Brexit sovereignty, leaving Britain isolated outside Europe’s shield at exactly the moment strongmen start treating allies as leverage. JACK DART JAN 18, 2026 {IMAGE} European Commission President Ursula von der LEYEN receives the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, Sir Keir STARMER in Brussels, Belgium on October 2 , 2024. Donald Trump has just demonstrated, with brutal clarity, what Brexit Britain refused to accept. In a world where power is exercised through coercion, tariffs, and threats, a medium sized democracy standing alone becomes a target, and Trump’s willingness to punish allies over his Greenland fantasy shows that the United States under his leadership treats partners as disposable. He can flatter Nigel Farage on television, pose for photographs, and talk about shared instincts, but none of that alters the hierarchy Trump lives by. When American supremacy collides with British interests, Britain loses, every time, because Trump’s politics are transactional, narcissistic, and contemptuous of constraint. His tariff threats aimed at the UK and European allies are not a negotiation tactic in the normal sense, they are an assertion that other democracies should pay a price for refusing to comply with his demands, and he has never hidden the fact that he views economic pain inflicted on others as proof of strength. That is the strategic trap Brexit created. Britain left the EU’s trading and regulatory bloc, then tried to compensate with nostalgic mythology about the Anglosphere and a “special relationship” that has always been conditional. Outside the single market, outside the EU’s collective leverage, Britain carries more exposure and fewer shields, and any future American administration with Trump’s instincts can squeeze the UK in ways that are hard to deter and harder to answer. The people who sold Brexit as sovereignty did not deliver control, they delivered vulnerability, and the cost lands on workers whose jobs depend on stable export markets, on families whose bills rise when supply chains seize, on patients when public finances tighten and services get cut back, and on young people whose opportunities shrink when cooperation turns into paperwork. This is the point the right wing refuses to face because it blows up their story. They needed the EU to be collapsing, they needed Europe to be falling apart, they needed the post Brexit world to reward Britain’s self isolation with instant deference. Europe has instead moved further into shared capacity, shared rules, and shared currency, because hard power has returned to the continent and serious governments respond by building institutions, not dismantling them. Croatia joined the eurozone in 2023, Bulgaria is adopting the euro in January 2026, and that pattern matters because countries do not sign up to a shared currency if they think the project is about to fail. The Union is widening as well as deepening, and it is widening for the most sober reason imaginable, security. Ukraine and Moldova have candidate status, accession talks have advanced, and the Western Balkans remain on a path that, however uneven, still points towards membership because the EU represents shelter, leverage, and a rules based order that makes coercion harder. The states that sit outside the EU, especially those close to Russia’s shadow or dependent on US goodwill, have started arguing more openly about joining precisely because they can see what Britain tried to deny, which is that sovereignty without power becomes dispossession, and power in this era is built through blocs. The claim that the EU economy is failing because Germany and France are struggling to adapt is another bad faith dodge. Germany’s industrial model faces the end of cheap Russian energy, France wrestles with political fragmentation, and Europe has real structural challenges around productivity, energy transition, and demographic change, yet none of that points towards collapse, it points towards the normal stresses of modernisation that every advanced economy is confronting. The EU continues to use its scale to set standards, to negotiate trade agreements, and to protect its members in ways that Britain cannot replicate alone, because a market of hundreds of millions has bargaining power that a mid sized state does not. Britain’s partial steps back towards cooperation already admit the truth. Horizon again, Erasmus+ from 2027, warmer language around alignment and practical cooperation, these moves happen because ministers know the economic damage is undeniable and the geopolitical weather has turned violent. Students lose years of mobility and networks when exchange routes are cut, researchers lose partnerships and funding when Britain tries to stand apart, and small businesses pay in friction and delay when trade becomes a maze, so even cautious governments edge back towards the structures that work. Keir Starmer’s government, if it wants to govern seriously, has to go further and stop pretending that incremental patches are a destination. A Britain that remains outside the EU will keep discovering that its choices are constrained by other people’s decisions, whether those decisions are made in Brussels, Washington, or Beijing, and Trump has shown how quickly Washington can decide that British interests are irrelevant. The next time the US wants leverage, it will find an exposed Britain and apply pressure, because that is what strongmen do and that is what Brexit enabled. The honest conclusion is uncomfortable for the people who built careers on Brexit, which is why they will keep lying about Europe’s supposed demise and keep selling the public a story about lone wolf strength. Britain needs to rejoin the EU because the world has entered an era of economic coercion and democratic erosion, and the only credible answer for a country of our size is to lock in protection through shared rules, shared capacity, and collective power. The choice is not between proud sovereignty and European cooperation, but between being a participant in a bloc big enough to defend its people, or being a spectator while others decide the terms, and Trump has just reminded us which side gets punished. Link to Jack Dart’s Substack Article |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 18 Jan 26 - 04:31 PM And another Tory defects to Reform UK Ltd., the private limited company posing as a ‘political party’. Andrew Rosindell, Tory MP for Romford, has announced that he has left the Conservative Party to join Reform, and Nigel Farage called him “A great patriot” who “Will be a great addition to our team”. There can’t be many Tories left in the House of Commons. Rats and sinking ships spring to mind. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c98jn1wywdyo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 18 Jan 26 - 06:37 PM Backwoodsman: Meanwhile, back to the topic of the thread. Here’s Jack Dart’s Substack analysis of the position the the post-Brexit UK now finds itself in regarding Trump’s threats and bullying over his intention to ‘acquire’, by fair means or foul, the island of Greenland. Very astute, I believe he has his finger right on the pulse… I totally disagree with the quoted position. Although you say he has his 'finger on the pulse' you do not (necessarily) claim to agree with him. The UK as a power outside the 'EU' can espouse a viewpoint which either matches that of the EU, or takes a different path. I believe that the USA (or Trump) will see them as two totally separate views, and will give them each their own relative 'weight' when considering how his plans are going down 'across the 'big pond'. The idea that UK is a non-entity if it is outside the EU is, I believe, false. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 18 Jan 26 - 06:43 PM Backwoodsman: And another Tory defects to Reform UK Ltd., the private limited company posing as a ‘political party’. As (presumably) a supported of Labour, does this cause you problems? Are you seeing a strengthening Reform Party (and a weakening of the Conservative Party) as a threat to your position? If not, then surely it is just a further split in the opposition. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 19 Jan 26 - 03:06 AM Nice one with the PMs quip, N8gel. Much as I dislike him, he has a long way to go to catch Johnson and Truss :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 19 Jan 26 - 10:34 AM ”As (presumably) a supported of Labour, does this cause you problems?” I’m not, and never have been a ‘supporter of Labour’. I am an opponent of Far-Right and Far-Left ideologies equally and, if I had to state my position, I would say I tend towards slightly left-of-centre. ”Are you seeing a strengthening Reform Party (and a weakening of the Conservative Party) as a threat to your position? If not, then surely it is just a further split in the opposition.” I am seeing a strengthening Reform UK Ltd rooted, as it undoubtedly is, in racism and anti-semitism, embodying the most Right-wing elements of Conservatism, and thus with an ideology seemingly designed to benefit the extremely wealthy at the expense of the ordinary Joe and Jane, as a threat to the majority of the population of this country. ”I totally disagree with the quoted position. Although you say he has his 'finger on the pulse' you do not (necessarily) claim to agree with him.” I believe he makes very good points that agree with to varying degrees. Overall, he has it right, in my own view. ”The UK as a power outside the 'EU' can espouse a viewpoint which either matches that of the EU, or takes a different path.” The UK has always been able to take its own path politically, the EU has never required its Member-States to be universally politically aligned. ”I believe that the USA (or Trump) will see them as two totally separate views, and will give them each their own relative 'weight' when considering how his plans are going down 'across the 'big pond'. The idea that UK is a non-entity if it is outside the EU is, I believe, false.” I believe you underestimate the strength and importance of an EU that included the UK, and I believe you overestimate the strength and importance of a UK standing, as we do currently, alone. This is, itself, the false premise on which the greatest act of national self-harm since the end of WW2 - Brexit - was sold to those daft enough to fall for it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 19 Jan 26 - 12:06 PM > The idea that UK is a non-entity if it is outside > the EU is, I believe, false. *Disagree*: alone, we're small enough to swat, or even get run over without the offender noticing the bump. One thing that worries me is this obsession with the "special relationship". I wonder how many people know what that actually is: a good part of it to start with was the secrets-world cooperation during WW2, whose very existence had official-secrets status until the mid-1970s or later.* Nowadays, according to those in a position to know, the secrets-world organisations of the UK and the USA overlap so much that it reminds me of Ambrose Bierce's definition of "alliance":
This is Airstrip One, and you're welcome to it. * "The geese who laid the golden eggs, and never cackled" (Winston Churchill) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: r.padgett Date: 20 Jan 26 - 01:33 AM Good to see UK aligned with other European countries His Tariffs cost US! citizens and they must, I feel complain He is a total loose canon Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Donuel Date: 22 Jan 26 - 07:51 AM If the US base in England had a nuclear weapons accident, 90% of your island would become poisoned and disfigured. You have no odea how many nukes and Neutron bombs we have in your country. The Sonic weapons used in Venezuela have been around for over 10 years and emit a nauseating bass standing wave that can immobilize a mass of people. Of course, explosives were also used and on;y killed less tha a hundred soldiers but just as many civilians Neutron bombs would leave your buildings standing but kill all living things near the surface and have the peculiar ability to not allow any of the bodies to rot for years. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Donuel Date: 22 Jan 26 - 07:56 AM Could a sick, demented mind of a narcissistic megalomaniac employ such weapons on an ally? Its a long shot, but it's a profitable game changer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Raggytash Date: 22 Jan 26 - 08:51 AM "You have no odea how many nukes and Neutron bombs we have in your country." More than a bit patronising. I would think that many people in the UK are all too well aware that we are a static aircraft carrier for some of the USA's nuclear capacity. Over 45 years ago we were subject to public information campaign named "Protect and Survive" I wonder if any American government has ever been so open with its citizens. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 22 Jan 26 - 11:35 AM If the US base in England had a nuclear weapons accident Which one? And do you mean Englamd or the UK? What about the republic of Ireland? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Raggytash Date: 22 Jan 26 - 12:03 PM Ah Dave, someone might get confused between the British Isles, Great Britain, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and the United Kingdom, not to mention the Peoples Republic of Yorkshire. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 22 Jan 26 - 12:34 PM Donuel has obviously never heard of the Greenham Common Women… Greenham Common Women Most UK-ers are fully aware of the presence of the USAF at several bases in the UK… US Air Force - UK presence since end of WW2 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: r.padgett Date: 25 Jan 26 - 02:28 AM Plans to make police in UK directly answerable to the Government Minister? Recipe for disaster, look at political interference in rallies and demonstrations ~ we the people elect politicians but the force of public opinion ultimately in a Free world MUST win Police and Chief Officers need to be left to make decisions but it is unfair to leave them stranded ~ better ways to gather verified information and seek help from police committees for this purpose Politicians make the frame work of laws and it is for the Police to enforce BUT not leave Police leaders stranded ~ Judges are there to deliberate when difficulties rise Look at where UK could be with a US style political leader Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Aethelric Date: 25 Jan 26 - 11:00 AM A socialist in the parliamentary Labour party? Starmer can't allow that. Andy Burnham blocked |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 25 Jan 26 - 12:02 PM ‘Labour’ on its usual road to self-destruction. The Deformers will be hugging themselves with glee! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: r.padgett Date: 26 Jan 26 - 01:47 AM No threat then to Starmer's reign as PM Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 26 Jan 26 - 07:32 AM Suella Braverman is the latest rat to desert the sinking Conservative ship… BBC News - Braverman Defects to Reform UK Ltd I wonder if it’s occurred to all those Deform UK supporters who claim that the UK needs radical change that their Party is filling up with the very bunch whose political, economic, and financial mis-rule got us into this mess in the first place? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: r.padgett Date: 27 Jan 26 - 06:18 AM IMV Farage is a Big T man ~ do we in UK need US methods ~ well I certainly hope not Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 29 Jan 26 - 12:29 PM From Daniel Lismore (UK-based artist, designer & perfumer) on his FB Page… “Polls say Reform voters are the least educated. Polling consistently shows that Reform UK draws its strongest support from voters with lower levels of formal educational attainment. That fact matters. Not as a slur, but because it helps explain a pattern that keeps repeating. Reform supporters are being told, clearly and repeatedly, what the party’s policies would mean in practice. They are being told that Reform supports weaker worker protections, a rollback of human rights safeguards, cuts to public spending, and a shift away from universal healthcare toward systems where individuals pay more themselves. They are being told that council taxes are rising under Reform-run councils despite explicit promises that they would not. They are being told that the party is dominated by former Conservative figures whose last period in power left the country poorer and public services weaker. And yet many supporters refuse to engage with these facts. Instead, warnings are dismissed as “establishment lies” while the same political figures are trusted again, even when the consequences are spelled out in advance. This is not confidence. It is avoidance. There is a psychological pattern at work. When people are under sustained economic pressure, anxious about the future, and angry at a system that has failed them, simple narratives become comforting. Blame is redirected outward. Immigrants. Protesters. Cultural enemies. The promise offered is emotional relief rather than material improvement. This is why Reform’s messaging prioritises grievance over detail. The party does not need supporters to understand policy. It needs them to remain angry long enough not to look too closely. The uncomfortable reality is that Reform’s policies would hit its own voter base hardest. People on lower incomes rely most on public healthcare. They are least able to absorb higher costs when services are privatised or withdrawn. They are most exposed to cuts in legal protections, benefit changes, council tax rises, and the erosion of local services. Reform’s politics depends on keeping that contradiction unresolved. As long as supporters stay locked in outrage, they are spared the moment of reckoning where they have to confront what is actually being offered to them: less security, fewer protections, higher costs, and a thinner safety net, all repackaged as freedom. That is not empowerment. It is control. Anger is being used as a distraction from policies that would leave people poorer, sicker, and more exposed. And the more uncomfortable that truth becomes, the louder the shouting gets. This is not about intelligence. It is about manipulation. And the people being manipulated will be the first to pay the price. Reform’s model depends on confusion. Fear is the glue. Outrage is the shield. Because once voters understand what Reform actually proposes, the support does not harden. It collapses.” For the non-Facebookphobes, here is DL’s original FB post. I find myself persuaded by his arguments… |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: r.padgett Date: 30 Jan 26 - 01:37 AM I am blocked by fb ~ so the link above I am unable to access Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 30 Jan 26 - 02:21 AM Does that matter Ray? I posted the text in full above, have you read it? |
