BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA

Subject: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: john f weldon
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 10:45 PM

I haven't commented much on the American election, since the rhetoric makes as much sense to me as the dogs yapping at each other in my neighbour's yard. But today, I heard Sarah say that the election was in the hands of God. I fully expected this risible remark to be derided by the commentators, but was surprised to hear both Republican and Democratic commentators agree with it wholeheartedly.

This seems a bit fatalistic to me. I can see how God might be blamed for the hurricanes, but the bad bank loans, lunatic foreign policy, and, indeed, the election results past and future must surely be the works of Man.

It may be, as many Americans believe, that God is, in fact, an American, and possibly a Republican as well. But if so, let Him register to vote! Let Him choose His state, a swing state if need be, and let Him have his say!

Let God have a vote, but, like Joe the Plumber, just the one!

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 11:07 PM

"In the hands of God" is what you say preemptively to wash your own hands of any responsibility or knowledge. It's the ultimate disclaimer.

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Slag
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 01:37 AM

"In God's hands", "In God we trust" and the like are an acknowledgement that, while we make our choices, God is in ultimate control of His world. God is not an American or even a Jew and the bad news is that the world systems of government are all inadequate at best. So, we who believe (which still seems to be a considerable majority, here in America) try to make a decision based on what is right for America and our friends and trust God for blessing those choices and accepting the results if the outcome runs counter to one's individual way of thinking.

If you don't believe in God, that's YOUR choice and I really believe you have the right to make that choice. I won't make snide remarks or scoff at your unbelief even though you do so to my beliefs. This is one of the strong points of freedom and democracy. We OUGHT to respect one another's differences because it means that we are still free. Respect and celebrate that if nothing else.

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 02:37 AM

God is not an American citizen, although he did influence the founding fathers.

Elections, though, are human things.


A

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 02:57 AM

Surely the election is in the hands of the electorate, Diebold, and the Supreme Court. What's God got to do with it?

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 03:02 AM

PS - there is also surely some inconsistnecy here - Did not Palintwerp recently say that Obama was against God, yet Obama is clearly for the election since he is standing in it. Or are the paired references to God meant to indicate that God will prevail in the election against His opponents, so this is a dogwhistle to get the loony religious right out.

Or, maybe, if McWar and teh Unevolved but Created do lose the election, then GOd was against them all along and they were false prophets?

I feel a verse or two of "With God on our side" coming along.

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 03:19 AM

...A bunch of disenfranchised sourpuss know nothings under the guise of 'tolerant', arrogant, pompous, supreme know-ologists!

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 03:29 AM

What I've noticed is that some people attribute the Republicans getting elected to God't will, but if a Democrat gets elected, they say it was against God's will. Their faith only seems to go so far.

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 03:38 AM

They???..You mean Republicans???..Republicans aren't necessarily Christians...though I'm sure a bunch of them go to church...(there is a difference)

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 04:18 AM

Not all Republicans. Some Republicans.

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: sian, west wales
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 06:10 AM

"Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's" comes to mind.

sian

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 07:56 AM

If God were a registered voter you can bet the RNC would hire a bunch of lawyers to try to have Him booted of the rolls...

Same goes for Jesus...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 07:57 PM

Only if ACORN signed him up!

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 08:23 PM

God makes a convenient scapegoat for a lot of things these days. . . .

Don Firth

P. S. I mean, if the last two elections were in the hands of God, I think a great cry of "Butterfingers!!" would be echoing across the Firmament.

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 08:35 PM

God is all knowing, all seeing, all hearing, all feeling, all liver twist, all ways and forever...

he's just not good with money.

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 08:36 PM

It depends what you think "God" means. If "God" is just a general sort of word which means "destiny" or "fate" (and that's what people often mean when they say that something is in God's hands)...then everything is in God's hands in that sense and HAS to be, but that does not imply some sort of conscious intervention in human affairs on the part of any divinity or theos.

Palin, however, may have been deliberately invoking or implying a God who does intervene. It wouldn't surprise me if she was. Or...she may have just been angling for a few more votes.

I wouldn't place more importance on it than it deserves...which is very little.

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 11:54 PM

I don't believe God has hands. I also don't believe He has a beard.

However, I have hands and a beard. I will gladly hold the election in my hands for an appropriate sum of money.

Sorry if that sounds mercenary, but if I'm going to be holding the election in my hands until November 4th, I won't be able to get any of my regular work done and this is a very busy time of year for me. It's only fair to expect reasonable compensation. $5,000 should cover it.

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Cluin
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 12:01 AM

If God was going to vote, I bet he'd insist on paper ballots.

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 12:27 AM

God/Great Spirit/whatever one believes in or not will do nothing against one's own will, imo. If one really wants what is best, they will give thanks for the outcome they desire with the caveat "this or something better for the highest good of all concerned." Then watch what happens!

Personally, I am sure I heard God say, just the other day, that S/He wants Sarah to go home!

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: DougR
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 01:12 AM

"God influenced the founding fathers." Amos, are you sure?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 11:20 AM

..."God influenced the founding fathers."...


            I've wondered for a long time what it was that went so terribly wrong!

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 11:45 AM

Lots of individual humans thinking they knew what God wanted has influenced much of history.


It reminds of of the saying that "A camel is a horse designed by a committee."

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Cluin
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 04:57 PM

Anytime anybody has claimed they were doing God's Work, has usually resulted in a lot of misery.

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: peregrina
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 04:59 PM

Any politician's idea that s/he knows God's will for everyone else is one of the most dangerous ideas in history.

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: gnu
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 05:08 PM

WARNING... this link contains rap. Click at your own risk.

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Stringsinger
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 05:25 PM

Doug, you are right (for once). The Founding Fathers were Deists and were concerned
about the problem of god. They didn't want him in the Constitution.

Frank



"God influenced the founding fathers." Amos, are you sure?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 06:24 PM

God, here in the US, usually means Jesus Christ.
Our founding fathers were religious nuts with guns...

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: gnu
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 06:28 PM

Thank God the rest of you had guns too! I mean, Jesus Christ!

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 06:50 PM

Our founding fathers were religious nuts with guns.

I would urge you to take a look at and read some excerpts of a new book, particularly Page 8, "American Gospel: God, the Founding Fathers, and the Making of a Nation by Jon Meacham.

YOu can also listen to an interview of him on NPR HERE.

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:15 PM

Some of the early settlers in America were indeed pretty 'extreme' in their religion. The founders themselves were mostly educated and thoughtful, though as with most folks in those days, imbued with 'some' form of religious ideas.
   The very construction of the Constitution & the relevant amendments gave us religious freedom without religious obligation. Sadly, some now assume that because many took advantage of the 'freedom' and are in the majority, that religious obligation should now prevail. One finds that attitude a LOT in the Republican party, as they have actively courted folks who think that way to bolster their base.
   Thus, religious preferences have found their way into debates where they should not be, and candidates with extreme views have tried to embed religious views into political offices.....as does Palin, though she was obviously told not to dwell on it.

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:29 PM

Bill? A horse is a camel designed by a committee which was ignorant of survival conditions in the desert. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:58 PM

*grin*... metaphors don't have to reflect exact science to make a point

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 01:33 AM

"I bet he'd insist on paper ballots."

Surely thou meanst papyrus - or parchment?


:-P

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 01:40 AM

From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 08:36 PM

It depends what you think "God" means. If "God" is just a general sort of word which means "destiny" or "fate" (and that's what people often mean when they say that something is in God's hands)

How about, where all life originates?

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Cluin
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 08:20 PM

The Primal Ooze?

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 08:55 PM

The source of all life, GfS? Yeah, I'd go along with that. I'd go even further and say, the source of all manifestation. You could also call that the Primal Stuff or something along that line, if you want to think in more impersonal terms.

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: john f weldon
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 09:17 AM

I didn't quote the whole speech, but Sarah wasn't talking about "the Mystical Substrate of Being" or some other abstraction. She was talking about the Cranky Dude in the Old Testament. She was clearly hoping for a rain of frogs, so she could have a reign of idiots.

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 10:30 AM

Couldn't have said it better myself, John....

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 10:37 AM

Oh, Miss Sarah
Let me be your hoppy frog
Don't wanta drink nop muddy water
Don't want to sleep in a hollow log
Oh, Miss Sarah
Let me be your hoppy frog

Nevermind... Any more and ol' R.L. Burnside come outtta the grave and punch me around but readin' John's post I just couldn'tr help myself...

BTW, word on the street is that God is one of the 200,000 recently registered voters that the Repubs are trying to block in Ohio??? Go figure???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Amos
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 12:10 PM

Hooboy!! Them 'publicanz is in one HEAP o' trouble now!! Trying to disenfranchise the Source?? Hoohah!! Expect another major flood right down the middle of RNC country, if they can find it...



A

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 12:13 PM

You're probably right about what Sarah thinks it means, John. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 01:26 PM

My wife has observed several campaign signs on her drive to work which read "JESUS: Real Change begins with Him." Other than exclaiming "For Christ's sake!" I have no further comment on this campaign.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Cluin
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 10:29 PM

You could always write Jesus' name in on the ballot.




Oh right, you don't HAVE paper ballots.

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: theleveller
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 11:50 AM

If god is an American then, because god doesn't exist, America must be a figment of the imagination.

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 11:53 AM

Here's a fellow who'd like the beauty queen to know there are HEROES in the cities, too.

Subject: RE: BS: God, Joe, Sarah, and the USA
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 07:24 AM

Hard to believe, what?