BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there

Subject: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: skipy
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 05:56 PM

Everytime I visit, there is no one there? or do they just run away?
Skipy (real name   billy no mates)

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Peace
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 05:57 PM

There are three people there right now, FYI.

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 05:59 PM

Everyone else is here

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 06:01 PM

Cause the chat app is garbage at the best of times....

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: skipy
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 06:16 PM

Cover me, I,m going in!
Skipy
Charlie papa 30

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 12:22 AM

If you REALLY WANT to chat, then you may have to sit in there for quite a while - while doing something else like reading the threads before someone else turns up, as I have found.

I have also found that since there is no audible alarm when someone else enters, people may enter and hang around for just a minute or two before exiting - I check back regularly, but one can get tied up for 5 - 10 minutes while busy...

So recently, I haven't been bothering to enter if no one else is there - if everybody does that...

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 06:30 AM

Seems we've been missing each other then because I check daily.

When you have just posted, check at the top of the screen for anyone in there... or refresh if you've just been reading. Sometimes people slip in and out between postings.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 06:56 AM

As far as I understand it, Mudchat has not been used that much because of stability problems. Things may have changed now there does seem to be a genuine huge improvement at Mudcat but over the past years, other more reliable systems have been used in preference by some.

At one point, I provided "folkchat" which I am informed was used until people (I'm told Mudcatters, not "outsiders") found ways of abusing the free (it was fast and stable but security/admin control was non existant) thing I'd set up by kicking other users and playing games with multiple identities. Giok provided a solution that is used by some from there.

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Leadfingers
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 07:52 AM

When I have time to kill , I log into Mudchat , shift the screen over so I can see if any one comes in , then do what ever else I want or need to do on the 'puter ! As Foolestroupe said , a lot of people pop in , DONT wait any time at all , and log out ! IF one is in the middle of something , by the time you can leave it , they've buggered off !!

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 10:12 AM

Skipy - A while back Mudcat became very unstable and it became almost impossible to stay in mudchat long enough to have a conversation with anyone. Often Mudcat disapeared completely due to crashes with the old system. When Max sorted out the big upgrade most of these problems disappeared and Mudchat is now working well. Unfortunately, when the system was having problems people got fed up with being unable to chat.
Some people who used to be regulars in Mudchat appear to have just stopped using it and do not seem to apppear at all. Others have made arrangements to chat elsewhere. As Jon says, at one time he set up a chat room which was visited by a lot of Mudchat regulars on days when Mudcat was down. There were some problems on that chat room as it was possible for someone to use the name of another mudcatter and go in the room pretending to be someone they were not.
I know of one other chat room which has been set up for mudcatters, but certain Mudchat regulars were not wanted, so it was by Invitation Only.
Unfortunately, now that Mudchat is stable, many people who used to be there have not returned. Perhaps because their "friends" are not there or because the room is empty, so they do not open it up.
Certain individuals still do open the room in hope that others will come in (Known as "Gallowing" - hanging around on your own). They are usually looking at other web stuff, so don't expect an immediate response, they will be back shortly.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 10:43 AM

I'd forgotten about impersonation. It's fumny really, in a sense, it sort of illustrates needs for change (contary to a well known argument here where someone sometimes argues to go back to older and better ways). The limitations and implications were known from day one but folkchat overall existed quite happily. When what was getting back to me started happening, there was no question that the system was inadequate and that changes (in this case a move or moves) were needed.

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Leadfingers
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 10:52 AM

I knw its a weekend and Summertime but i just sat in Mudchat for half an hour (doing the crossword as well ) and no one appeared !

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 12:39 PM

"there does seem to be a genuine huge improvement at Mudcat"
From the bottom, it's not hard to go up a little.....

"Mudchat is now working well"
It's still the crappiest chat-app I've ever seen on a web site....

"it was possible for someone to use the name of another mudcatter"
Who'd bother??? And to what end?!?!?!

(Known as "Gallowing" - hanging around on your own)
Ya... -I- invented that term....

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 01:08 PM

"it was possible for someone to use the name of another mudcatter"
Who'd bother??? And to what end?!?!?!

Well as far as I'd heard someone did bother although I don't know to what end.

Other than that I can tell you, folkchat started in June 2004 and it's open access was a known issue then. It didn't become a problem until Jan 2006 so noone really bothered for a good while.

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 01:12 PM

"although I don't know to what end"
Probably nothing that mattered a hill-of-beans....

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: gnu
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 04:19 PM

Given your attitude, CH, I can only assume your assessment of the chat was when you were in it and participating.

I find it odd that such an intelligent and talented person as yourself finds it necessary to constantly being such a weening, condscending, negative... I'll stop there... I really don't have that much time.

In short... who the fuck pissed in your cornflakes this morning?

See you in chat old buddy?

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Sorcha
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 06:00 PM

If you want in invitation, PM Giok...it's his room.

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 07:05 PM

CH: I pop in and out of Mudchat all the time and I haven't seen you in there.

Rhiannon

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 12:01 AM

I stopped going some time ago, because the chat app sucks

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 05:23 AM

Sorry Lead... Enjoying a blissful first day on my own in the house (Manitas and Limpit are away for til next weekend!!) so I was doing naked housework most of the evening... not because it was hot, but because I can!

Maybe tonight?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 05:58 AM

I stopped going some time ago, because the chat app sucks

I looked in once for my curiosity and did not think the Mudchat was specially bad. I don't particularly like it but as a user, I don't particularly like any of what I call the "browser refresh" types as they are sluggish by nature.

On the other hand though, while my preferred dedicated "browser client application"/server chats are far more responsive, they do suffer from compatibility (eg running a Java applet, firewall blocking a port) problems that a plain old HTML system doesn't.

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 06:34 AM

As a curiosity item, I was discussing various chats elsewhere earlier this year and cobbled up a version of a "browser refresh" type while tring to eplain them. This is very crude but it actually does work as a chat.

  login.php: Logon to the chat.
  Code:
  
  <html>
  <body>
  <form action="main.php" method="post">
  User Name:
  <input name="username">
  <input type="submit" value="Log In">
  </form>
  </body
  </html>
  
  
  main.php. Main page for frames & announce someone to the room
  Code:
  
  <?
  if (isset($_POST["username"]))
     {
     require("db.php");
     $SQL="INSERT INTO message (username, message)
     VALUES ('System', '" . $_POST["username"] . " has joined the room')";
     mysql_query($SQL);
     }
  ?>
  <html>
  <frameset rows = "85%, 15%" />
    <frame src ="message.php" />
    <frame src = "input.php?username=<?echo $_POST["username"]?>" />
  </frameset>
  </html>
  
  
  message.php: Display the messages
  Code:
  
  <html>
  <head>
  <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="5;url=message.php">
  </head>
  <body>
  <?
  require("db.php");
  $SQL="Select * FROM message ORDER BY ID DESC LIMIT 20";
  $result = mysql_query($SQL);
  $text = mysql_fetch_array($result);
  while (!($text==0))
     {
     echo $text["username"] . ": ";
     echo $text["message"] . "<br>\r\n";
     $text = mysql_fetch_array($result);
     }
  ?>
  </body>
  </html>
  
  
  input.php: user message input.
  Code:
  
  <?
  if (isset($_POST["send"]))
     {
     require("db.php");
     $SQL = "INSERT INTO message (username, message)
     VALUES ('" . $_POST["username"] . "', '" . $_POST["message"] . "')";
     mysql_query($SQL);
     }
  ?>
  <html>
  <head>
  </head>
  <body>   
  <form action="input.php" method="post">
  <input type="hidden" name="username" value="<?echo $_REQUEST["username"]?>">
  <input name="message" size="80" >
  <input type="submit" name="send" value="send">
  </form>
  </body>
  </html>
  

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: skarpi
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 06:38 AM

there is always someone there its only the timing , when do you come
at what time ?

All the best Skarpi Iceland

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 08:19 AM

Most evenings I log in and usually a few follow. Mudchat now seems to work well with none of the revolving door syndrome that people got fed up with. When Mudcat was down during the big overhaul I visited other chat rooms but felt that once mudchat was back it should be supported and so I no longer visit the other rooms. Only this week we got back up to about ten one vening although that doesn't happen as often these days. It is of course Summer and a lot of folk are out there enjoying holidays and festivals ( I would say the sunshine but with howling gales and temperatures more suitable for October I won't). UK catters tend to come in around 5.30pm onwards mudcat time but I agree with Leadfingers that sometimes folk just don't give enough time for someone to reply.

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 08:25 AM

Jon, nice bit of code, but what happens when someome leaves the room?

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: freda underhill
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 08:39 AM

well there's a couple of us in there now!

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 08:42 AM

FT, that one does not track users at all...

Someone leaving a room can be a bit odd on that sort of system anyway. With the type of chat I prefer, we have a connection (say a TCP socket) between client and server and the server may detect or can check if the client connection has been lost (a sort of ping if you like).

When the system is relying on the browser to refresh itself and using HTTP, the only time a user is connected to the chat is when the refresh is made, or an input such as a message is made. These systems may provide an "exit link" a user may click to leave but (at least usualy - I can't think off hand how else one might work it) but if a user for example just shut their browser down the system doesn't know the user has left. A resolution here is to say record a "last activity time" for a user and take actions based on that. This may result in a user appearing to be in a chat, minutes after they have in fact left.

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 08:58 AM

Off the top of my head, the simplest extension to my crude system would be.

input.php: user message input.
Code:

<?
if (isset($_POST["quit"]))
    {
    require("db.php");
    $SQL = "INSERT INTO message (username, message)
    VALUES ('" . $_POST["username"] . "', 'has left the chat')";
    mysql_query($SQL);
    header("Location: login.php");
    exit;
    }

if (isset($_POST["send"]))
    {
    require("db.php");
    $SQL = "INSERT INTO message (username, message)
    VALUES ('" . $_POST["username"] . "', '" . $_POST["message"] . "')";
    mysql_query($SQL);
    }
?>
<html>
<head>
</head>
<body>   
<form action="input.php" method="post">
<input type="hidden" name="username" value="<?echo $_REQUEST["username"]?>">
<input name="message" size="80" >
<input type="submit" name="send" value="send">
<input type="submit" name="quit" value="quit">
</form>
</body>
</html>

That might work providing a user left by clicking the "quit" button. Obviously you could etend things say with a right hand frame listing users and making queries to the database, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 09:09 AM

Jon,
I would not use the term 'crude' about you....
{:P

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 09:37 AM

BTW, you can get chats that cater for more than one type of client. Looking at CF Chat which is what I believe Mudchat is, there is a version which additionaly supports a Flash client.

The flash client probably gets round the sort of slugishness and other user issues I'm not over fond of while the HHTP client should give the better compatibility.

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 11:58 AM

I'm not sure if I'm the sort who delights in flash company.

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 11:58 AM

IRC Chat rules

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 02:12 PM

IRC is well proven, you can find a choice of clients, etc. but how does it work if you want to set up a private website chat like a Mudchat?

IRC servers are easy enought to find, one comes bundled with my Linux install dvd but when I've looked at IRC, I've found reference to chanels, net joins etc, seems like becoming part of a network of servers, something I wouldn't want and the whole thing, at least on a quick read, sounded so political, it just wouldn't be worthwhile to try setting up for that sort of use.

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 02:36 PM

There have been about 8 of us this afternoon.

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 02:38 PM

Yup.

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 08:21 AM

Oh surely this is the "session at a folk festival syndrome" the number of times I have heard the "bin there nothing happening" and when I ask "did you play till the next guy turned up" they look at me blank. Or the guys booked to play and refuse cos nobody's there. Which makes them nobody, and they have been payed to be there, tickets or no it is pay. Try that excuse as a steward and you ain't no steward. People attract people.

Log in and stay there long enough to make it look occupied and .................... I'll talk to anyone

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 03:18 PM

Skipy, you have received numerous answers here, some technical, some more related to the dynamics of a chat. What you haven't gotten is the truth and I feel we all owe you that at the very least.

You asked why no one is ever in chat when you try. The answer is simple. No one likes you Skipy. Its true.......and I am stuck with the job of telling you. Most folks here agree that you are without a doubt the most unmitigated asshole we have ever had the singular displeasure of having met.

There. I've said it and I'm sure you will be the better for it.

Best Regards,

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Sorcha
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 03:28 PM

LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Raedwulf
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 03:35 PM

Oh come off it 'Spaw! We've all met CH - no contest! (Only joking, CH! Alright!! *Mostly* joking... ;-) )

And we all know about the Gibbering Martian. No joking at all. Skipy has got infinite mitigation by comparison... :-/

For my own part, I've just mostly fallen out of MC. Same old same old on the boards; same old same old in chat. I hadn't even realised there'd been any serious stability problems, it's been that long since I dropped in regularly. I just got bored, sorry!

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 03:44 PM

" I just got bored"
I can imagine why....

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Raedwulf
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 03:55 PM

Same old same old...

How are you, you old curmudgeon? Still ginger? Still argumentative, intolerant & anti-social is quite obvious... ;-)

Actually, "bored" is a bit strong. It was more that I fell out of the habit of dropping in, because I wasn't interested enough to keep... ummmm... that still works out to 'bored' really, doesn't it!

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 03:56 PM

Ya... that's still bored....

I grok....

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 04:24 PM

Love you too, Wulfie ;0)

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 06:22 PM

Wel GtD maybe some of the responses on here will explain why certain people are not welcome on other sites!
Perhaps it is also the presence of those same people that keeps some people away from the Mudchat too!!

G.

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Leadfingers
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 07:10 PM

Well we had eleven assorted people in MudChat this evening ! Almost like Old Times !!

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 11:51 PM

It was a nice visit over there this evening--I hadn't been in Mudchat in probably several months. It was nice to stay connected during the talk. I stopped visiting before mostly because of the technical difficulties we were experiencing. It is much improved.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 07:43 AM

Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there
From: gnu
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 03:42 PM

Feelin' blue, Red?