BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 06:54 PM

Good ideas, Tam and Stilly. I suspect strongly we'll do what we can pay for; no more.

I appreciate all of the suggestions, friends.

Maeve

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 09:53 PM

THIS seemed kinda interesting.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: My guru always said
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 07:34 AM

Wish I had some ideas, but it looks like you're getting plenty here. Still thinking of you and your wonderful project. Sounds like things will be happening slower now for a variety of reasons, but remember the Tortoise and the Hare.
Love & Hugs,
Hil xx

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 07:28 PM

Funny thing; that was part of my research, kat!

Hil, I like the tortoise analogy; I get impatient sometimes, but look forward to growing a jewel here.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Allan C.
Date: 14 Jan 11 - 06:04 AM

When I was a child my folks would take me along as they visited one of Dad's co-workers who was also a great friend. Dad's friend had built a house that was filled with marvels. For instance it had a glass brick foyer wall in which a number of the glass bricks actually held goldfish. But one of the things that captured my parents' imagination and admiration was the free-standing, movable partitions. I don't know how many of them were portable, but at minimum the partition between the kitchen and the living room/dining room could be moved to allow whomever was cooking to be able to converse with guests. I believe, now that I think of it, that a couple of other partitions could be moved, shrinking another room to make the living room/dining room more spacious.

I don't have any idea as to how the partitions were constructed, (I was only about 5 at the time,) but
these look interesting and are not particularly expensive. Just a thought...

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Jan 11 - 07:08 PM

Looks too much like my cubby at work!

How about this instead? (from here).

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: gnu
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 05:58 AM

SRS... cool!

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 09:02 AM

Thanks for two takes on the flexible wall notion, Allan and Stilly. The beautiful screen Stilly linked to costs money (or time to make it).The vaulted ceiling makes sliding partitions inoperable as far as I can tell, but I had thought, earlier in the process, of Japanese style sliding paper screens. Once the rest of the interior walls are built we'll have a 20' x 23' or so open area (a little over half of the circle), so I'm not very concerned about space in that regard. I would like to use double doors or sliding pocket doors to the music room/study/guest room slice of the pie so they could provide a separate space for music and when opened wide, allow free movement between that room and the open area.

We're also trying to build in ease of use and movement for friends and guests with mobility challenges and for our older selves years from now.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 10:27 AM

Room dividing screens can be done on the cheap, with old wood screen door frames or garden trellis panels, piano hinges, flat bed sheets and a staple gun.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 11:54 AM

I've seen things made that way, VTam, but not very cheap, at least not here. I did see a very creative way some folks used old doors for a corner privacy spot in their yards. They hinged them all together, after painting them all kinds of colours and designs, then stood them across the area in a slightly wavy line. It was really neat, but too bulky etc. for inside, of course.

Large sheets of art paper make beautiful screen material, too. I have them pasted to the bottom halves of our windows, for privacy, but a screen made with thin strips of wood and hinges would be lightweight and easy to do.

Here's someone who tells how to make one using cardboard! CLICKETY

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 12:39 PM

Thanks, VTam and kat, for the great additional screen ideas. I'm sure they'll come in handy for someone!

We picked up a nice stained glass pendulum-style lampshade at the village recycling center. I reckon it will be just right. We only bring home/accept the very few items that we know will be beautiful and useful in the yurt. We'd rather do without than make do, after so many years of the latter.

It's mighty cold here today. I'm glad we banked around the camper with snow.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Allan C.
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 03:00 PM

The things SRS and I mentioned are not especially in need of being suspended from a ceiling. In fact, the ones I linked to come in a variety of heights and are free-standing so far as I can see. I like the one SRS linked to; but I believe one could pretty much decorate the plain panels in any number of ways. No matter, though. It seems you've worked out such things pretty well so far.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 03:22 PM

Thanks, Allen. I like all of the partition/screen ideas. You never know who might find these ideas useful. In a smaller model or if we hadn't needed the privacy of enclosed rooms with ceilings, a combination of these ideas would have worked nicely.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 03:41 PM

I knew the prices were very high when I added the Japanese screen links. They're very expensive, but are beautiful, a contrast to the cubby walls. I used to visit a screen in a local department store furniture department. It was an antique listed for $10,000 but was simply the most beautiful thing in the store. I don't know how I would use one of those if I had it, they're works of art that need the right kind of space to display.

My coworkers in the library have a bunch of louvered partitions around their work areas in the basement of our building. They came painted a black enamel and I think there are probably 5 or 6 segments per screen. I'd estimate that they're six feet tall and each segment is 24" wide. They bought them from Oriental Trading several years ago. I searched for them and there is one room divider listed but it doesn't have a photo up now.

I imagine you could buy louvered doors at the hardware store and use piano hinges or regular hinges to connect as many as you want and even put some kind of footed support on the base to give them stability. Fasten together three bifold doors and you'll have an attractive but temporary divider. Paint with spray paint to avoid all of the tricky brush work.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 04:39 PM

We got some state surplus cubical dividers on feet for work and just move them to where we need to shut anything off (like my desk which is open in a big room surrounded by noisy people)...They provide enough privacy for a sleeping guest and some noise abatement and probably even a bit of thermal advantage. They aren't gorgeous but not too ugly. mg

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 05:01 PM

The one thing that comes to mind for me in the midst of all these wonderful ideas:

I am not too concerned about the fact that our kitchen is apt to fall into the basement any day. What gets me is having to reset the circuit breaker if I use the small microwave and the small toaster oven and the distiller at the same time. NOT ENOUGH power to each outlet is as bad as not enough outlets. Four outlets on a 12 foot counter are great only if they are on at least two separate ciircuits!

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: ClaireBear
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 05:34 PM

I looked up the quote I recalled as similar to a recent comment of yours, Maeve. You probably know it already, because you so nearly expressed it the same way. From one of my heroes, William Morris:

"If you want a golden rule that will fit everything, this is it: Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful or believe to be beautiful."

He also said:

"Simplicity of life, even the barest, is not a misery, but the very foundation of refinement; a sanded floor and whitewashed walls and the green trees, and flowery meads, and living waters outside."

May blessings abound.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 06:45 PM

I have loved those two quotes for years, Claire. Here's another from William Morris that I like:

"If I were asked to say what is at once the most important production of Art and the thing most to be longed for; I should answer; A beautiful House; and if I were further asked to name the production next in importance and the thing next to be longed for; I should answer; A beautiful Book. To enjoy good houses and good books in self-respect and decent comfort, seems to me to be the pleasurable end towards which all societies of human beings ought now to struggle."

Calm, peace, beauty, simple comfort; a place for laughter, music, meaningful work, contemplation, writing, art.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: jacqui.c
Date: 16 Jan 11 - 11:14 AM

Good morning Darlin'.

I look at this thread daily, although don't post much. I'll make up for that when I get to visit, hopefully, soon.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 16 Jan 11 - 02:55 PM

Hi, Jacqui. Sometimes in the very early morning I amuse myself by imagining which friends quietly think of us. Welcome home.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: gnu
Date: 17 Jan 11 - 03:23 PM

Getting anxious for the next progress report me.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 17 Jan 11 - 05:03 PM

So are we, gnu. It's been too cold for the exterior work we need to do, and more bad weather will arrive Tuesday and Wednesday.

The rest of the work must wait.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: gnu
Date: 17 Jan 11 - 05:11 PM

Oh... like caulking? taping?

Does this mean it's in a stall until temps rise? That sounds ominous as it could be months!

Oh my.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Jan 11 - 05:22 PM

Not too sure how high the ceiling is but India prints on a rod make great walls... Kinda hippie-ish but, hey, what can you say... I still have quite a few of them from my younger hippie days... Had a loft apartment and that's all I used to create rooms... And they add so much color...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 17 Jan 11 - 05:45 PM

have we pontificated on flooring yet? I live in a little cabin with painted fir floors and they are the best floors I have ever had. Just sweep and mop and you're done. No waxing, stripping, vacuuming etc...could put area rugs on for warmth but I hope you don't put in laid down carpeting...nasty dirty stuff. mg

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 17 Jan 11 - 06:21 PM

33 wall joints with top of wall trim, exterior vertical trim, fascia including extended eave barge fascia, and such. All call for compressor and various framing nail/brad/staple guns which we are tracking down. Then we have caulking and spray foam sealing to do. Then the yurt will be weather tight for sure. It's so cold the wood may split with the force. We must be very careful not to mess up the cuts, and each cut must be stained/sealed at room temp.

Then we wait until we can afford the next steps: wall insulation and the insulated slab. Yes, possibly months.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 17 Jan 11 - 06:35 PM

Cross posted...

mg- Floor is plywood subfloor. That's it for now. What you describe is what we used to have in our house. We liked it, too.

Bobert- Vaulted ceiling is 20 feet high at the center skylight.

I'm tired, cold and grumpy. This too shall pass. :)

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Jan 11 - 07:55 PM

Sorry, maeve...

Wish life was easier fir ya'll...

Sounds like the India prints won't work without some doing... BTW, I like painted floors, too... With a little work ya' can make 'um look real nice with an occasional throw rug for effect...

BTW, spring is right around the corner...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 17 Jan 11 - 07:59 PM

put on a few more layers of warm stuff & curl up under the your lovely quilt for a reviving nap. Sure to stop grumpiness - especially if you have a teddy bear to hug.

Don't try for a nap like the one freda had one evening after work - she emailed us somewhere around 11.30 apologising for missing the singing session as she had just woken from a nana nap. I replied it must have been great-grandmother nap!

sandra (sending warm thoughts from summery Sydney)

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: kendall
Date: 17 Jan 11 - 08:09 PM

Are you ok maeve? it was 5 below zero here last night.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Janie
Date: 17 Jan 11 - 11:05 PM

Time to hunker down and just figure out how to keep warm. Once warm, time to daydream whilst thinking about the next possible practical steps. Eh?

Don't risk frostbite for the sake of privacy. Go take up space and make a pallet on the living room floor of friends, family or church members if need be for the sake of safety and sanity in such bitter cold. Doubt many would consider it an imposition.

You are sensible grown-ups capable of making the choices that suit you best. We can't help but be concerned for you in this bitter cold and with what you have shared about the difficulties in getting and staying warm in your current living conditions.

Be safe.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 18 Jan 11 - 06:54 AM

We're alright; -12F/-24C Sunday night, with even colder weather in another day or so. I don't post much so as not to worry our friends here. TL is successfully keeping the camper plenty warm enough for safety.
We bundle up, add a layer, etc. The camper is now banked with snow.

Being on site is a necessity. It's tiring to deal with the cold and we don't sleep nights when the furnace must be left on, that's all. If we had access to water it would ease some challenges, as well. Today's little difficulties hit harder when I look ahead to months of difficulties. That's life.

Easy sounds good, Bobert. Fortunately for us, we love, enjoy, and respect each other... so the challenges are less of a focus than is our enjoyment of life together.

Thanks for asking, y'all.

Maeve

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 10:23 AM

A friend has sent a beautiful, warm, king-size down comforter. We shall be warm this weekend when temps. drop as far as -15 to -20F.

This is an interesting, locally available insulation product. It could be used to fill the inner walls for sound proofing.
Cotton insulation batting

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 12:22 PM

A good question to ask about the cotton batting is how well it holds up over time, and whether it settles over time or becomes compressed and loses some of its R-value. Also check to see how rodent and bug resistant it is.

Now, you may find that it doesn't hold up as well as fiberglass and decide to go for it anyway, with the knowledge that it's better for the planet and in however many years' time you'll just need to replace it. But it's good to know, in any case.

If those things are issues, you might go for fiberglass in permanently enclosed spaces and cotton in any spaces you're likely ever access or that are open-ish, thus combing durability and safety.

And again, the caveat: I so don't know what I'm talking about.

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 12:30 PM

This may sound strange, meave, but the snow packed around the trailer is helping insulate it... BTW, are you using propane to heat??? BTW, Part 2... Have you heard of Eden Pure electric heaters??? They are supposed to be very efficient meaning that you get alot more heat for yer buck than the older electric heaters...

Spring is 8 weeks away...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 12:34 PM

Hi again, Dan. It must be nice to know what you don't know. Sometimes I don't know what I don't know until it's too late...

Specs on the cotton insulation look very good. It's manufactured for a friction fit, and because it's in batt form rather than loose, it won't settle. The addition of borates acts as a nontoxic mold, mildew, insect, and rodent repellent, and gives the insulation high resistance properties to fire and smoke. Supposedly, it dramatically reduces airborne sound transmission from such things as airplanes, TV,traffic, conversations, etc.

I wonder what it does for rooster hollers?

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: gnu
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 12:37 PM

Looks like good stuff, maeve. I dislike the "fungi resistance,... and pest resistance" part but if you can ensure against water damage and pests, it could be used in int/ext walls. How's the price against fibreglass (still my top choice).

Just one precaution with the cotton. It will attract insects and insects are pretty darn hard to keep out. I wonder what they treat it with so that insects won't eat it???

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 12:46 PM

Hi, gnu.

This and every other "green" natural fiber insulation I've researched, including the blown-in cellulose we'll use in the exterior walls, has borates added to protect against insects, mold, rodents, fire, etc. It seems the emphasis is on effective and appropriate use of water shields, caulk, moisture barriers, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 01:23 PM

The borate is not bad like a lot of other chemicals. It had been used medicinally for centuries, probably. Boric acid - anyone else remember it as an eye wash? It's also good at repelling roaches, termites, carpenter ants, etc.

If boric acid is applied to the soil, nothing will grow there, so it isn't to be used lightly, but it is affective in this application.

I agree with Bobert, the snow against the trailer will help a lot in keeping the temperature even. It's the reason you can stay warm in an igloo or snow cave.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 01:52 PM

I had missed your post, Bobert. You said, and Stilly repeated, "snow packed around the trailer is helping insulate it". Yep, that's why we bank with snow. We always have; it's effective and it's free.

And yes, our camper has a propane heater.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: gnu
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 02:51 PM

Hmmmm... maybe not the best story under the circumstances, but I doubt there is any problems with your trailer meave.

Some years back, I had a 13' trailer up country. I used to bank it with fir bows. As soon as snow was on the go, I would bank snow. One day, I was sitting in a lawn (snow?) chair having an ale and smelled that smell now and again. I waited for the wind to calm out and smelled all the fittings around the tanks... nope. Imagination?

Then, I got a good whif again in the chair. I dug into the banking. A slow leak at a fitting under the trailer. The buildup of propane after several days was scarey! I made four "holes" which I would bank again at night until I replaced the fitting on the next trip in.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 03:20 PM

Good story, gnu. We have managed to keep the vent clear. :)

I measured 14" of new snow, with more falling.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Janie
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 08:41 PM

The cotton insulation is intriguing, maeve. It sure calls to mind a lot of questions that only time can answer (and some, though not all have already been raised.) speaking strictly from the peanut gallery, I don't think I would choose to be in the first, or even second wave of post-market guinea pigs for something like insulation, that is likely going to be there for the effective life of the building.

If I were considering it for environmental or ecological reasons, I'd also want to know more about where and how the cotton was grown - to know what effects the growing of it have on the environment and lives of the people where it is grown.

Thanks so much for sharing with us all the different products and ideas you are running across in your research. I learn bunches from reading this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: mouldy
Date: 22 Jan 11 - 02:33 AM

Sheep's wool is used as an alternative roof space insulation in the UK sometimes. Hope you get something sorted out soon.

Andrea x

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 22 Jan 11 - 06:21 AM

wool batts are used in Oz, too

Aust. Consumers Assn reviews different types of insulation

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: gnu
Date: 22 Jan 11 - 06:52 AM

Are you gonna build a patio?....

My husband, Ray, was attempting to build a patio for the first time. He bought 100 cement blocks. Laying them out in a pattern, he discovered the chosen area was too small. He stacked the blocks against the house and cleared more space. The next day Ray put the cement blocks back down, only to find that the ground was too hard to keep the patio level. He ordered a truckload of sand to be delivered the following morning. Again he stacked the 100 blocks against the house. Observing all this, our 'nosey' next-door neighbor asked, "Hey! Ray, are you going to put that patio away 'EVERY' night?"

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Janie
Date: 22 Jan 11 - 07:01 AM

What an informative and clearly written article, Sandra. Thanks for posting the link!

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 22 Jan 11 - 07:24 AM

ACA is a great organisation - it is independent (funded by members not industry) & always provides the best info on products. It is THE source for info when planning to buy consumer goods from baby necessities to cosmetics to home loans to insurance to ...

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 22 Jan 11 - 08:07 AM

Useful link, Sandra.There are several forms of "natural" insulation.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: gnu
Date: 22 Jan 11 - 08:45 AM

I have found (during building inspections) newspaper, horsehair, leather shavings... and lots of rats... they generate heat.