Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile of BBC [2011]

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Oct 12 - 04:26 AM

Several victims have referred to his physical strength, and how he easily overpowered them.

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 04 Oct 12 - 05:15 AM

He was obviously incapable of achieving any kind of adult emotional or physical relationship with a woman. Even the assaults on the underage girls he used for his sexual gratification, were a characterised by a routine of beckoning the girl to sit on his knee, immediately shoving his tongue down her neck, his hand up her skirt and into her knickers, and then either expecting a "hand job" or pinning her down for a few minutes of "in and out". All reported that he displayed no emotion either before during or after. It sounded like sex for Savile was a routine mechanical operation. Or maybe like many paedophiles*, he had perfected the art of swiftly taking advantage of any window of opportunity to sexually assault the young teenage girls he came into contact with, that presented itself.





* whether Savile was a paedophile isn't relevant to my point

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Oct 12 - 05:27 AM

From this morning's Times
Jim Carroll

BBC 'WAS AWARE OF SAVILE SEX ABUSE ALLEGATIONS IN 1973'
Ben Webster Media Editor
The BBC has removed all programmes featuring Sir Jimmy Savile from its schedules while police investigate alle-gations that he was a serial abuser of young girls from the 1960s to the 1980s.
A repeat of The Story of Light Entertainment, which included an interview with Savile, will not be shown on BBC Four on Saturday, and episodes of Top of the Pops presented by him have also been cancelled.
A former BBC press officer cast doubt yesterday on the corporation's claim that it became aware only last December of the allegations against Savile, who died a year ago.
Rodney Collins said that Douglas Muggeridge, the late Controller of BBC Radio 1 and 2, told him in 1973 that he had heard of allegations relating to Savile and underage girls involved in his Radio 1 series Savile's Travels. He said: "For the BBC to say they weren't aware of anything, they certainly were."
Mr Collins said that Mr Muggeridge asked him to check with some newspapers whether they were going to report the allegations. He said he was told that the newspapers were aware of the allegations but would not report them because Savile did a lot for charity and was a popular man.
A BBC spokesman said that it had searched its files and found no written record of allegations of misconduct by Savile during his time at the BBC.
He added: "We are now working with police forces to help them investigate these matters. We are also keeping our searches for information under review as and when new information comes to light."
Police are considering beginning an investigation into allegations that other people who are still alive, including at least two celebrities, were involved with Savile in abusing girls.
The Metropolitan Police are assessing an allegation by a woman that she was raped by Savile after meeting him while on work experience at Broadcasting House, the BBC's headquarters.
A Scotland Yard spokesman said: "We can confirm that we have received a small number of allegations that are currently being assessed."
Three other police forces confirmed that they had received complaints. Surrey Police received a complaint in 2007 and interviewed Savile under caution but did not proceed after the Crown Prosecution Service said that there was insufficient evidence. Sussex and Jersey police received complaints in 2008 but did not interview him. West York-shire Police refused to say whether it had received any complaints about Savile, who lived in their area.
ITV broadcast claims last night by five women that the presenter abused them in the 1970s when they were child-ren. Last year the BBC Two programme Newsnight interviewed ten witnesses making similar allegations but the programme was dropped. The BBC refused to say yesterday whether George Entwistle, the new Director-General who was head of vision at the time, had been aware of the Newsnight investigation. It said that Mr Entwistle was not involved in the decision to drop the programme, which had been taken for "editorial reasons". Karin Ward, a former pupil at Duncroft Approved School near Staines, Surrey, who alleges that she was abused by Savile, agreed to waive her anonymity to be interviewed by Newsnight, and said she was upset that the programme had been dropped.
She added: "I think the BBC cut the programme because they were appalled ... When they found out some of the abuse happened on their premises I think they were 'absolutely not, you're not telling anyone that, cut it'."
A circular gold plaque in Scarborough, where the presenter had a home, was subject to a graffiti attack this week. Authorities in the North Yorkshire town say they are now reviewing security at the cemetery where his headstone lies. A statue of the star in Glasgow has been removed.

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 04 Oct 12 - 05:40 AM

Whoops! What happened there?

Anyway, what I find grimly fascinating about JS is that he knew exactly how to exploit 'human nature' for his own purposes. He seems to have latched on, very early, to the power of pop music and the hold that it has on audiences. He cultivated an eccentric persona which allowed him, through his DJing, to cash in on that power whilst having no musical talent whatsoever. He knew that many people are inordinately impressed by charity work and thereby was able to both turn himself into a secular saint and to gain honours (including a knighthood - for God's sake!!). Most sinister of all he understood how impressionable and vulnerable some young girls can be and used this knowledge to exploit them sexually. He also knew that many people will readily blame victims of crimes rather than the perpetrators of the crimes (look how many contributors to this thread have attempted to defend him).

Beware psycopaths - they've got your number!

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 04 Oct 12 - 05:52 AM

"Beware psycopaths - they've got your number!"

Not to mention they "know where you live"

Remember Louis Theroux perplexedly quizzing Savile over why Savile had Throux's name and home address written on a pad in his living room when Theroux filmed his doco with Savile? When asked exactly how he'd got hold of Theroux's home address, Savile said "I can get anything me".

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Oct 12 - 05:54 AM

Thanks Jim. I wonder why "West York-shire Police refused to say whether it had received any complaints about Savile, who lived in their area."

Do you still "agree with Richard Bridge, let's see the evidence before coming to a conclusion" or is there enoough for you both now?

Don T, do you still think the alleged child victims might all be lying?

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 04 Oct 12 - 06:29 AM

I stayed up last night to watch the programme and squirmed all through. It was sickening, and I for one completely believe the allegations. I remember that era; girls were thrilled to be invited to meet someone famous and to be on the TV. When they were abused they would have found it impossible to tell anyone, as people thought he was a saint. Also he was crafty enough to select girls from an Institution for 'wayward' young women, whose stories would be instantly discredited. Paedophiles are incredibly devious and sly. They know how to groom the vulnerable and evade detection. Online they contact eachother and refer to their 'Hobby'. Even the most hardened of prisoners I got to know would not have hesitated to attack and even try to 'do in' a paedophile. That's why they're segregated in jail. I feel the Queen would probably prefer to have his knighthood removed posthumously.

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 04 Oct 12 - 08:34 AM

A very queer story. I can't think of a current novelist who could handle this grotequeness. The names of Canadian Mordecai Richler and the late Auberon Waugh resonate - its like one of their plots.

And you'd read it and think, that would never happen. What an unlikely character...!

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Oct 12 - 08:51 AM

And it keeps getting worse. I hadn't followed the link to the Haut de le Garenne children's home in Jersey before. The following from the Sun unfortunately, however it is worth noting that the story is not 'new' as such, as the interviewee made a complaint against Savile to police back in 2007:

[A] nine-year-old is the youngest person said to have been abused by the Jim'll Fix It star, who died last year aged 84. Her older sister, now in her 50s, told yesterday for the first time of the attack at the Haut de la Garenne home.
She said hordes of excited children had been bussed across the island to meet the star at the children's home when he was at the height of his TV fame.
She said: "My sister was sitting on his lap — he was a pervert. He put his hand up my dress and also my sister's and fumbled around.
"She was nine and I was 11 at the time in 1971. I just ran away and took my sister away from him." [...]
The older sister made an allegation of indecent assault in 2007 to police at the start of a three-year investigation into child abuse on the island.
She said yesterday she told them of Savile's abuse when they interviewed her after a picture emerged of him with children from the home. The woman added: "It was brushed under the carpet. There should be an independent inquiry."
The TV and radio personality initially lied that he had ever been there. Eventually he admitted he had been to Jersey but it was "a million years ago".
Police found dungeons at the home, where children were systematically abused and tortured. [...]
Jersey Police said last night of Savile: "The allegation was investigated but there was insufficient evidence to proceed."

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4570674/Jimmy-Savile-groped-9-year-old-girl.html

CS

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 04 Oct 12 - 08:57 AM

EDIT: however it is worth noting that the CLAIMS ARE not 'new' as such, as the interviewee made a complaint against Savile to police back in 2007:

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 04 Oct 12 - 09:51 AM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/03/liking-young-girls-not-preference-perversion

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Oct 12 - 10:22 AM

I am, as usual, being misquoted.

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Oct 12 - 02:26 PM

I don't much care for proclaiming guilt because there was an "aura of pervert". Guilt depends on being guilty, not having an aura.
I agree with you Richard.
I have not seen any television programmes, furthermore should people be tried by television?
but innocent until proven guilty is an important principle, if he is guilty which i think is possible,but still not certain, I feel sorry for the people he abused.
there are one or two convicted child abusers on the uk folk scene, one of them posts on this forum.
However I would not reveal that persons name to anyone publicly, because I do not believe in vigilantism, imo providing that person never works with children they have a right to remain anonymous
   imo it is not sufficent for them to say i have had my punishment, because they have messed up someone elses life or lives.,I find it very difficult knowing how to deal with someone who has abused children

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 04 Oct 12 - 02:33 PM

I didn't watch the programme but understand it was on ITV. Have not the Tory Party and their masters the Murdoch Press been trying to discredit the BBC for years for their own ends. Jommy Savile has turned up just in time.

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 04 Oct 12 - 02:37 PM

I think one of the principal issues here is the apparent 'turning of a blind eye' by many different organisations. The Police, the BBC, the Managers of the Home etc. It seemed that the fact Savile was famous and ostensibly a saintly icon protected him from any investigation. I feel people are so shocked and disgusted because no-one dared to blow the whistle. The point is that the same scenario could happen today. Celebrity is so important and famous people are revered and idolised. So are men such as ministers of religion, scoutmasters, choirmasters, youth leaders, teachers, doctors etc. It takes a lot to challenge their integrity. CRB checks may not turn up anything of concern, and such positions provide a happy hunting ground for the perverted.

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Oct 12 - 08:02 PM

"Innocent till proved guilty" is a good principle - but is hard to apply in cases where no trial is possible.
.................................
There are two kinds of reason why accusations against high profile people may be dismissed out of hand. One is the case where the person is seen as too powerful,or where damage to an organisation is feared, etc. The other is where they are seen as incredible because the person is trusted and genuinely seen as above suspicion.

Neither kind of reason should be allowed to get in the way of responding properly to such accusations - but the distinction between the two should not be obscured. The first is a matter of corruption, the second is a matter of naivete. They both have to be resisted and eliminated, but the process of doing this is liable to be different.

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: GUEST,al whittle
Date: 04 Oct 12 - 08:28 PM

not sure why the distinction is so important. Fact is, lots of people let it go on - for all sorts of reasons


And there really isn't any reason good enough for this sort of thing happening.

Not sure where that leaves us other than we've all got to try harder. After all the laws are in place. they must be policed more effectively to protect youngsters. perhaps we need a special squad - for investigations and complaints where the suspected criminal is famous.

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 02:38 AM

"I think one of the principal issues here is the apparent 'turning of a blind eye'"
While there appears not to have been enough evidence to act on complaints that were made against Savile, it seems totally unacceptable that he was allowed to go on working with children once these complaints were made - not as a punishment for unproved allegations, but simply as a safeguard.
This really is comparable with what happened in the clerical abuse cases.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 02:43 AM

...and other recent cases of child abuse being allowed to continue for years on a huge scale because it was inconvenient for the victims' testimonies to be believed.

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 02:59 AM

The 2 linked Guardian articles, Spleen Cringe's and mine, both make a comparison with the Northern child trafficking cases.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/01/jimmy-savile-abused-children-documentary
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/03/liking-young-girls-not-preference-perversion




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Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 03:10 AM

What would we call the boss of the special squad? The Paedophile Finder General, perhaps.

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 03:37 AM

"Northern child trafficking cases"

So far it seems the Yorkshire police were wilfully negligent in the Northern trafficking cases, showing no interest whatever in the victims' testimonies and treating them as compliant in their abuses -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/may/09/rochdale-grooming-trial-race

"Inconvenience" in no way came into those cases other than in the minds of those who would put it there   
This appears not to have been the case here, where there seems (so far) genuinely not to have been enough evidence to take action.
Won't be around for a week after today, but will be interested on my return to find if this has been turned into yet another 'Muslim Prejudice' thread - shame on those who would use a case of child abuse for such an agenda.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: GUEST,Felix Titling
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 03:53 AM

There were no witches, Doc - Matthew Hopkins was an opportunistic sadist. Paedophiles, on the other hand, are not only real, but they are rife. It is they who are the opportunistic sadists - and Sir Jimmy Savile OBE was one such.

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 03:56 AM

Savile apart from his voluntary work at St James Infirmary in Leeds was an Honorary Churchwarden at St Johns Churh at Cragg Vale in Calderdale, I saw him there once, he had a huge caravan [ trailer ] to stop in, where there were also 2 very young girls who NEVER came out of the caravan all weekend.

The good people of Cragg Vale worshipped him for the good works he did , but they must have seen what was going on.

And all the while Savile preached about ' The Duchess ' [ his mother ] was the only woman he ever loved.

Why did he never marry ?

Why was he never seen with an adult woman friend ?

The man in my opinion was loathsome.

Dave H

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 04:06 AM

So far it seems the Yorkshire police were wilfully negligent in the Northern trafficking cases
Yes it does, and you have to ask why they were with just these cases.
As with the clerical abuse scandal, and possibly Savile, because of who the perpetrators were.

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 04:33 AM

………… I saw him there once, he had a huge caravan [ trailer ] to stop in, where there were also 2 very young girls who NEVER came out of the caravan all weekend.


What did you do about it at the time?

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 04:42 AM

It may come as no surprise to those not wearing tinfoil hats that Savile is likely to have used his 'charitable' work as an hospital porter, as a means to assault yet more vulnerable victims. And as in a number of other instances, although a complaint was made at the time of this incident, no further action was taken:

"June Thornton, now 80, claimed she was lying in a four-bed bay in the Brotherton wing after undergoing back surgery in 1972 when she witnessed the incident.
She said: "There is no doubt whatsoever that it was Jimmy Savile and that he molested that woman.
"I can still remember seeing exactly what he did. He just helped himself to her. He molested her. He rubbed his hands over her chest and further down her front."
Mrs Thornton, from the north of York, claimed that when she told a nurse, she took no notice and nothing was done. ""

More:

A NORTH Yorkshire woman was sexually assaulted by Sir Jimmy Savile as she lay strapped to a hospital trolley following a spinal operation, she has claimed.
The woman, who is now 55, said the abuse happened when she was 16 after she underwent the painful procedure at Leeds General Infirmary in 1973.
She told The Press: "I was on a hospital trolley when I was sexually assaulted by him. I was lying flat on my back. I was crying after having this procedure because I was in pain. He bent down and I thought he was giving me a reassuring cuddle, but he was inappropriate; he inappropriately touched my chest.
"I was wearing a thin hospital gown and he touched me on the top half. For that to happen in a hospital – well, I just did not know what to do. I was upset, but I was more in shock. I felt too frightened to report it because everyone thought he was a saint. This was somebody who was like having your dad around. He was a public figure.
The victim said she believes other women are coming forward now because they were too ashamed to report the attacks in an era where their allegations may not have been heard.
She said: "In the 1970s, if you tried reporting rape or sexual assault or something like that you were accused of making it up. It was the age when short skirts were in fashion and you were accused of leading the man on; that you were asking for it. I was brought up in a strict Catholic background and if I had told my parents, they would have thought I was making it up."

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/9968467.Ex_York_nurse_saw_Jimmy_Savile____molest____patient/?ref=rss

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 04:52 AM

"The man in my opinion was loathsome."
Yes he was - and obviously so to judge by some of the revolting self promoting film-clips shown on last night's Newsnight.
He was very much a part of the media's 'dumbing down' campaign of children's broadcasting.
Am I alone in yearning for the balmy days of 'Childrens' Hour' and 'Top of the Form' when (or so it seems to me' children were treated like future adults and not potention customers for pop-pap?
"just these cases."
Have I imagined that the man who was in charge of those largely responsible for the Hillsborough atrocity has just resigned after nearly half a century?
And we haven't even started to discuss their willingness to be used as a private army by Lady T
It seems the Yorkshire police have a record that would be more at home in a Mack Sennett studio than with a responsible police force.
Anybody attempting to make racist capital out of child abuse is a sicko - it finishes here as far as I'm concerned
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 05:31 AM

No-one is Jim, but we know that "sensitivities of ethnicity with potential to endanger the harmony of community relationships" was considered to be an issue more important than stopping the abuse of vulnerable kids on an industrial scale.

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 05:51 AM

Jim makes what I think is a very good point about the police in the 70s and 80s. Only a few years before Hillsborough the police in Yorkshire were beating seven shades of crap out of striking miners - or at best treating them like cattle. That's how they'd become used to dealing with large crowds of working-class men by the time of Hillsborough - plus they knew they could get away with it.

My father-in-law, on the other hand, was a police sergeant in Lancashire during the strike and never took a penny in overtime. His father-in-law was a retired miner and he knew he wouldn't be able to look him in the face if he did (despite being a Conservative voter himself).

Bit of a drift, I know, but Jim's remark just put me in mind of it.

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 06:05 AM

Further to the reluctance of victims to 'tell' of their experience. When I was twelve, I often visited a female cousin at her home in Ealing, West London, with my parents and sister. She had a piano in the 'study' and she always let me go in there to play it (alone). Her husband was a creepy type, and on one occasion came in while I was playing, came up behind me and started to touch me very inappropriately. I absolutely froze. I didn't know what to do or say. Fortunately, my cousin's little boy came in looking for his Daddy and the creep left the room. I never spoke of this to anyone, and certainly not my parents. I just knew that they'd have been disgusted with ME for 'imagining' such a 'dirty' thing. Needless to say, I never again played that piano and stuck close to my mother during future visits. I relate this minor incident just to show that young girls don't always feel they can tell whayt has happened. They feel ashamed and try to forget it as best they can. We all need to be vigilant on their behalf.

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 06:17 AM

""Don T, do you still think the alleged child victims might all be lying?""

Keith A, do YOU believe in trial by Media?

The evidence may well be overwhelming and I may well have decided the allegations are, on the balance of probabilities, true.

But I am not a judge, and neither my friend are you.

It is a very dangerous thing to try cases out of court, more especially when the accused isn't in a position to respond.

My only point in this thread is this. Do YOU believe it is right to ignore the most basic tenet of English Law, that every man is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law?

Now I'm out of here. The relish with which some of you have picked this man apart is slightly sickening.

Don T.

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 06:19 AM

Saville sexually molested lulu on juke box jury in the 60s on live tv . Nobody said or did anything about it

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 06:33 AM

"The relish with which some of you have picked this man apart is slightly sickening."

I am extremely glad that these allegations are coming to light. Indeed I am always glad when allegations of this sort are exposed rather than remaining dirty secrets. Very glad indeed that these crimes are no longer being concealed either by the victims OR by those who suspected by chose to do nothing, either for the realistic fear of being disbelieved, or for the fear of harm being done to careers. The more such crimes are revealed, the less easy it is for the systematic abuse of children by powerful people or within powerful organisations, to occur in the future. As someone who was abused, I have a deep and personal interest in such stories. I'm not ashamed of that. I'm also glad to see apologists leave this thread.

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 06:52 AM

"Do YOU believe it is right to ignore the most basic tenet of English Law"
I go along %100 with this, but I do believe that there comes a point in the disclosures where the probability of it having happened becomes obvious and I think we might have reached that point.
It is immaterial whether the suggested culprit is alive or dead; if it is true that the BBC was aware of the possiblity that it was happening and they allowed Savile to go on working with children, they have a serious case to answer.
I think I am right in remembering that there have been at least three other 'media stars' who, it has been suggested, were involved in these claimed events - do we ignore the possibility that they are still out there and allow them to go uninvestigated, and maybe even to continue to practice their 'little weakness' in order to keep the memory of 'Sunny Jim' untarnished.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 06:56 AM

Don, we are not in court.
As a general rule, when child sex abuse is reported by the victim, they should always be listened to and believed if there is no reason not to.
Malicious allegations are rare, and the motive usually obvious.
Here we have numerous and disparate victims telling the stories that still haunt them decades later.

I believe them, as I did on the last occasion this came up.

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: GUEST,Felix Titling-Blandiver
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 07:01 AM

Spot on, CS.

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 07:02 AM

"there have been at least three other 'media stars' who, it has been suggested, were involved in these claimed events "

At least two that I'm aware of at present. "Gary Glitter" and Freddie Starr.
Starr initially sought and won a press silencing gag, but that has since been overturned and he has now been named as the "third star" alleged to have participated in a group assault upon underage girls from the Duncroft home for (quote) "emotionally disturbed" girls.

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 07:53 AM

'Malicious allegations are rare'...Rare maybe but not that rare as to be discounted: ask some teachers who have been wrongly accused of child abuse by a vindictive child. Even when found quite innocent, the cloud hangs over the teacher forever. Threats of being reported to Childline for no good reason are not unheard of. Then we must consider false memory syndrome: patients under therapy 'remembering' incidences of abuse as a child which certainly did not occur but were planted, perhaps unwittingly, in the patients' mind by the therapist. Then there's jumping on the bandwagon to make a fast buck.
By all means listen to the child but with a critical ear. Children are not always sweet innocents: they can be vindictive liars too.
Not that the above is relevant to the current case.

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: Musket
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 08:34 AM

Saville could gag the press by threatening the risk of charitable giving through his aura.

Freddie Starr.. What the hell could he threaten? "Expose me and nobody will be able to laugh at my Hitler impression?" "The S*n wont be able to get a story over my hamster culinary arts? "

Sadly, power corrupts and I am not surprised to hear how you feel invincible when all around tell you what a superstar you are. You end up believing it. Base instinct kicking in can be such a small simple step...

Allegations need to be looked into. With Saville, that is not easy as there is no criminal case that can be answered, so we will not get the impartial forensic examination that a court of law could give it. Sadly, sensationalism and innuendo will be mixed with the facts, so we may not know the true story.

If, as many have pointed out on this thread, such exposures are a deterrent to others, then it can serve a purpose. One positive, if there can be a positive, is that most of this was a long time ago. With increasing public awareness, safeguarding training in public bodies including hospitals and The BBC, such occurrences would be far more difficult now than at the time of most of the allegations. Although those in charge of some Rochdale and Rotherham child care homes may wish to wonder why they bothered with safeguarding awareness training if they didn't do anything about it...

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: GUEST,your willie
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 08:58 AM

My quote of 6.59 A.M. 3/10/12 shows that some at least were aware and critical of the issue even though at that time the age of consent was twelve.
L.C. and the sheep who agreed with her should at the very least give a thought as to why the subject was being aired. Was it because the problem was endemic when the facts were commented on?.

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 11:45 AM

Was it because the problem was endemic when the facts were commented on?.
i think you are right

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: Brian May
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 12:16 PM

I wrote this last October . . . wow was I fooled. Just seems you don't know do you?

Subject: RE: Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK
From: Brian May - PM
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 05:29 PM

My wife knew Jimmy when he was at the height of his fame. He used to go to the club she was managing in York., he was wonderful with all the staff, generous, considerate and down to earth.

She says he was an absolute gentleman at all times, even running her home in the early hours to York and having tea and biscuits with her mum and her before driving on to Scarborough to see 'the Duchess'.

The world is a dimmer place without him in it.

RIP Sir Jimmy, I wish I'd a memory like that too. Never heard anything bad about him - I'm glad about that.

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 01:08 PM

And by contrast, from Savile's own autobiography (written in 1974) we have him writing about an incident at the Mecca Locarno ballroom in Leeds, where he worked as a DJ, when a female police officer came in with a photograph of "an attractive girl who had run away from a remand home".

Savile wrote:

"'Ah,' says I all serious, 'if she comes in I'll bring her back tomorrow but I'll keep her all night first as my reward'."

He then wrote that the girl did go into the club and:

"agreed that I hand her over if she could stay at the dance, and come home with me".

He wrote that he did then hand her over to the:

"lady of the law, who was dissuaded from bringing charges against me by her colleagues, for it was well known that were I to go down I would probably take half the station with me".


Not convicting him without a trial or anything, but it's telling that back in 1974 he felt so secure that he didn't even bother to hide his liking for "young girls".

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 01:33 PM

""I'm also glad to see apologists leave this thread.""

That is an insult which I don't deserve C.S.

I have nothing but loathing for child molesters, and I want to see every individual who had definite knowledge of this and concealed it taken to court, convicted and punished.

This does not in any way conflict with my distaste for the unholy glee with which the Media (and some Mudcatters) have chosen to destroy not only the man for the evil he has done, but also everything good which was also achieved through his actions (see the comments re charity work in this thread).

It leaves a rather nasty taste in the mouth, and one can't help wondering why almost all of the victims waited so many years to come forward.

Don T.

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 02:02 PM

I'm afraid, for me, all the good he has done etc is totally wiped out by his predatory way of life as a paedophile. I suspect his charity work was cunningly planned solely to give him access to possible victims and to boost his self-image. He loved the limelight and it gave him a kind of immunity. 'Leaves a rather nasty taste in the mouth...' well, sticking his tongue in young girls' mouths (and worse) leaves a VERY nasty taste in mine!! A monster who does 'good works' is still a monster.

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 03:07 PM

I don't believe anyone can be found guilty of a crime if they cannot defend themselves can they? Anyway - Saville will never have to face court but he does appear to be guilty of the crimes if we believe what we are told. Trouble is - Does anyone benefit from this apart from the press and media? The same kind of who gave him the opportunity to do these things are now making another fortune out of it. Sad really.

Surely the only good that can come of it is that the victims can now relieve themselves of the burdens that he placed on them and that would be best done in private and with dignity. Don't give the Sun and Telegraph and the BBC and Rupert Murdoch the benefit of making another penny out of him. Consign all their rubbish to the bin and let the victims recover in peace.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 06:36 PM

And we haven't even started to discuss their willingness to be used as a private army by Lady T...
Anybody attempting to make racist capital out of child abuse is a sicko...
Jim Carroll
.,,.
How about trying to make anti-Thatcherite capital out of it, hey Jim?

~M~

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 08:50 PM

More Evidence That Margaret Thatcher Was Racist, Everyone Fairly Unsurprised
3:11 pm - 12/30/2009
Margaret Thatcher complained about Asian immigration to Britain

Margaret Thatcher thought it was "quite wrong" for immigrants to get council houses ahead of "white citizens", previously unpublished government papers show.



Files released to the National Archives show that soon after becoming prime minister, Lady Thatcher privately complained that too many Asian immigrants were being allowed into Britain.

The documents, which are published today under the "30 year rule", shed further light on Lady Thatcher's attitudes on race and immigration, political issues that have remained controversial ever since.

They show that in July 1979, Lady Thatcher met Lord Carrington, her foreign secretary, and William Whitelaw, then home secretary, to discuss the plight of hundreds of thousands of "boat people" fleeing persecution in communist Vietnam.

The prime minister, who had publicly said that she sympathised with fears that Britain was being "swamped" by immigrant cultures, reacted sharply to the ministers' suggestions that thousands of the Vietnamese refugees should be welcomed.

Lord Carrington, who had visited refugee camps in Hong Kong where some of the boat people were being held, gave a "vivid account" of the conditions there, the minutes show.

He suggested that Britain take 10,000 of them over two years. Failure to take a significant number would lead to a "damaging reaction" at home and abroad, he said, and anything less than 10,000 would be "difficult to sustain" on the world stage.

But Lady Thatcher said that there were already too many people coming into Britain, according to the minutes.

She said that "with some exceptions there had been no humanitarian case for accepting 1.5 million immigrants from south Asia and elsewhere. It was essential to draw a line somewhere".

Mr Whitelaw entered the debate, suggesting to the prime minister that refugees were a different matter to immigrants in general.

He said that according to letters he had received, opinion favoured the accepting of more of the Vietnamese refugees.

Lady Thatcher responded that "in her view all those who wrote letters in this sense should be invited to accept one into their homes," the minutes disclose.

"She thought it quite wrong that immigrants should be given council housing whereas white citizens were not."

Lady Thatcher asked what the implications of such a move could be given that an exodus of the white population from Rhodesia – now Zimbabwe – was expected once majority rule was established.

She made clear, however, that she had "less objection to refugees such as Rhodesians, Poles and Hungarians, since they could more easily be assimilated into British society".

The meeting was held about 18 months after Lady Thatcher made comments in a television interview that came to be seen as a watershed in mainstream politicians' handling of race and immigration.

"People are really rather afraid that this country might be rather swamped by people with a different culture," she told World In Action.

"If we do not want people to go to extremes we ourselves must talk about this problem and we must show that we are prepared to deal with it," she added. "We are not in politics to ignore people's worries. We are in politics to deal with them."

The comments were held responsible for a collapse in support for the National Front, which had been gathering momentum in working class communities.

Read more at ONTD Political: http://ontd-political.livejournal.com/4945894.html#ixzz28TYDzLjC

Subject: RE: 2011 Obit: RIP Sir Jimmy Savile UK disc jockey
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Oct 12 - 01:42 AM

All parties including Labour now agree that immigration has been at too high a level.
I think that Labour is also now in favour of a higher priority for housing be given to those who have been waiting for years.
Not sure why Fatcher is essential to every thread.
What was your point Jim?