BS: Re. Jupiter

Subject: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Oct 10 - 04:40 PM

For anyone in North-East England, at least, Jupiter is very clear due south now.

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Oct 10 - 05:22 PM

Has been for over a week.

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Oct 10 - 06:21 PM

Jupiter will be good for most of the winter. If you have binoculars you can see anything up to all four of the four big moons of Jupiter: Europa, Ganymede, Callisto and Io. This website is wonderful and it will tell you which moons you can see and exactly when. I love it.   http://www.skyandtelescope.com/observing/objects/javascript/jupiter

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 05 Oct 10 - 07:30 PM

Thanks all; living in the town these days I'm out of touch with the night sky but I'll be on the look out.

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 05 Oct 10 - 07:32 PM

She has been around most of the night for some time, at least going all the way back to the Perseids, though will be more noticeable now because of the earlier dark nights (at least in the northern hemisphere)

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Oct 10 - 07:46 PM

Jupiter is unmissable at the moment. Just look south (ish) during the night and it's easily the brightest "star" in view. Unlike real stars, it doesn't twinkle (one way of telling a planet from a star). Something to do with the fact that planets don't shine by their own light but by reflected sunlight. Get yer binoculars out, get 'em in really sharp focus and be gobsmacked by Jupiter's moons. You can nearly always see at least two and they are always to the left and/or right of the planet, never above or below. Magic.

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Oct 10 - 07:58 PM

"Something to do with the fact that planets don't shine by their own light but by reflected sunlight."

Fired up by my own curiosity I just checked this. I'm wrong. It's to do with the fact that the huge distances of stars mean that even the brightest star is seen as a single point of light even by the most powerful telescopes. On the other hand, planets are actually tiny discs, even in binoculars, and act in effect like several points of (less intense) light. The effects of refraction and turbulence of the atmosphere severely affects stars, being just single points (like having just one pixel excited), so they sort of go on/off in a twinkly way. Planets on the other hand, being bigger in sky area, are more like having several pixels which will not all be affected in the same way at the same time, so any tendency to twinkle is, er, averaged out. Nothing to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Oct 10 - 08:00 PM

"The effects of refraction and turbulence of the atmosphere severely affects stars"

Sheesh. Don't tell Emma Thompson. :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: Slag
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 01:42 AM

Exact-O SS, atmospheric disturbances are what cause stars to fall you know. Meteors, meteorites and meteorologists. It's all about the weather!

I have bunches of "do you knows" like do you know that the bright red star in the shoulder of Orion is so large that if it were where the sun is, it's rather nebulous surface would reach to the orbit of Saturn? That's a diameter of about 4 billion miles. The Sun'[s diameter is just under a million at 864,464 miles. Put another way the Sun is 125 Earths in diameter and just over 12 Jupiters in diameter. As our old friend Jack Horkheimer always said, "Keep looking up!"

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: alanabit
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 04:23 AM

Jupiter was very prominent last year too. Saturn was quite easy to spot - just below Leo - earlier this year. I have not seen Venus and Mars (also easy to spot) lately, but I shall keep looking. Now it is autumn, there are not so many clear nights.

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 04:34 AM

Mars and Venus are close together but also very close to the setting sun just now.
Autumn evenings are good for satellite spotting.
I love to see the so called Iridium flares, when their antennas

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 04:36 AM

...when their antennas catch the sun.

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: alanabit
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 06:29 AM

Thanks Keith. I shall keep a look out.

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 10:52 AM

Thanks, Walkie and Steve, especially.

I just bought new binoculars, and I'll be sure to get them out to look at Jupiter's moons.

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 01:14 PM

"...do you know that the bright red star in the shoulder of Orion is so large that if it were where the sun is, it's rather nebulous surface would reach to the orbit of Saturn?"

Not only that, we'd all drown in millions of gallons of beetle juice.



I'll get me coat then...

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 01:24 PM

O telescope, instrument of much knowledge, more precious than any sceptre!

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: Slag
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 04:13 PM

Beelejuice Beetlejuice Beetlejuice! There I said it- Oh! Hi Michael- long time, no see!- though I was trying to avoid it. Actually it's "BET-al-juice" near as I can determine. Anothier one that's fun to say is "Zubenelgenubi" pronounced "ZOOben-EL-gen-OObee". That is the southern "claw" star, once a part of the Scorpius constellation but now consiedered by the Astronomical community to be part of the Libra constellation.

So. Michael, how ya been? Anything new in the works? Oh, that's too bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 04:20 PM

Thanks for the extra details: I've had a couple more looks out the kitchen window (with light off) tonight, and noticed 2 moons (one much closer to Jupiter), which seem to have moved from about 4 o'clock to almost 6 o'clock.

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 06:24 PM

A few decades back (when both the world and I were a bit younger) I took some astronomy courses at the University of Washington and had a chance to put in some telescope time in the small observatory on the north end of the campus. It wasn't a really good spot for an observatory because only a few blocks away was the University District business district and there was too darned much ambient light (why the major observatories are away from cities).

Nevertheless, one evening I got a chance to gazed at Jupiter. Amazing! Big disk in the telescope (refractor), and you could see the bands, the Great Red Spot, everything. Then I spotted a few other things. I called the prof's attention to them and he took a look. Then he announced to the rest of the class gathered around the telescope, "Well, the sharp-eyed Mr. Firth has just followed in Galileo's footsteps. He's spotted the four Galilean moons!" Then everyone took a turn at looking at them. Lot's of "Ooh!" and "Ahh!"

A bit later in the evening, we got a look at Saturn. It was in just the right position for great seeing. The rings were a-tilt and plainly visible.

A few weeks later, we all went back to the observatory and took a good close look at the Arend-Roland comet, which could actually be seen with the naked eye early in 1957. Looking at it through the telescope, it appeared to have two tails, one big one, and a smaller one, sort of "split off" from the other.

For an astronomy nut such as myself, there are few things more heart-pounding than to peer through a telescope at the real thing, even though photographs may give a far better view of it.

A couple of years earlier, I had taken Astronomy 101, which turned out to be a big disappointment. That particular prof apparently didn't know from Shinola about such things as the formation of stars and planetary systems. Or, for that matter, orbital mechanics. He spent the whole quarter teaching us celestial navigation:   figuring the right ascension and declination of various stars. I'm quite sure if I were ever lost on my luxury yacht in the middle of the South Pacific, it would have come in handy, but I was hoping to learn a whole lot more than that!

At the time, there were a lot of preparations being made to launch artificial satellites, plus some talk of going to the moon—and possibly beyond. One of the students asked this professor what he thought of all this. The response was a brusk, "Nonsense! It's impossible! All this talk of launching artificial satellites into orbit is nothing but a criminal waste of the taxpayers' money. They'll just fall back to earth. And any talk of flying to the moon is pure science fantasy!"

I, who had read such things as Willy Ley's Rockets and Space Travel when I was in high school and was delighted to receive a copy of The Conquest of Space, also by Willy Ley and illustrated by Chesley Bonestell, as a Christmas present, concluded that there really wasn't a whole lot I could learn from this professor.

This was late in 1957. Sputnik I went into orbit on October 4th, 1957. HAH!!

The prof who taught the later class, where we spent a fair amount of time in the observatory, was a whole different breed of cat! Very knowledgeable. Very open to possibilities. And I learned a lot from him, which is what I was there for.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 06:53 PM

Getting your hands on a really decent astronomical telescope is, unfortunately, a very expensive business. You won't get anything worth having from Argos or Dixons. It's been well said, even by professional astronomers, that the best tool for the amateur is a decent pair of binoculars. If you're on a tight budget I should like to recommend the Olympus 8x25 PCI binoculars. My wife got me a pair last Christmas (I looked 'em up on Which? first!) and ever since then they have been glued to my chest. They have exceptional optical quality for the dough (you can get 'em for about £65). You can wear 'em with specs on too, something I didn't believe possible until I got these (They have good "eye relief" apparently!), and something that always used to put me off binocs. For stargazing you don't want anything above 8X unless you're prepared to muck about with tripods, but I reckon that's best left to the telescope dudes.

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 08:58 PM

"That's a diameter of about 4 billion miles." Hardly - Saturn is on average 870,000,000 frrom the sun - double that for a diameter Betelgeuse if it reached that farr, and you get 1,749,000,000 miles.

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 08:14 AM

Am I right in thinking that Uranus is fairly close in the sky to Jupiter at the moment?
Needs binoculars to see it as it is just too faint for the naked eye.

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: G-Force
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 09:40 AM

Bright as a beacon last night here in SE England. But not having a tripod I found it impossible to hold my 8x binoculars still enough to see anything much.

If I can rig up something to rest them on, I'll have another look tonight.

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 01:51 PM

Thanks for your story, Don; and the red spot I thought I was seeing last night must have been the "Great Red Spot" you mention.

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 02:15 PM

From what I've heard, the "Great Red Spot" is believed to be a monster hurricane, and it's been going on for some time. First noticed some 300 years ago.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 02:32 PM

Whilst Uranus is close in the night sky to Jupiter just now, it will not be seen in binoculars. You need a hefty telescope to be able to see it as with Pluto and Neptune which rise before it.

The Naked Eye Planets are Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn (and binoculars are useful too). After that you need a telescope.

On a good night, with a telescope, you should be able to see most of the visible moons move around Jupiter, together with movement on the 'Great Red Spot'. Saturn's moons, when it is visible, can also be tracked. Usually a good equatorial mount is needed to keep track and steady but if you become good at tracking manually it is not impossible.

Enjoy the nights to come (Northern Hemisphere) as we move toward the winter skies and welcome some of the delights of Taurus, Orion and Gemini. Just be aware that Sirius (The Dog Star) also shines extremely bright but is usually lots closer to the horizon than is Jupiter later in the year.

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 04:20 PM

Uranus is a dim naked-eye object, easily visible in binoculars (if you look in the right place). I hate to contradict such an authoritative post. There are plenty of web references if you google "Uranus binoculars."

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: Slag
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 06:40 PM

Yes, thanks Mc Garth! Got me! That's what I get for shooting from the lip! Diameter about 2 billion miles. Betelgeuse has been called the "redhot vacuum" where one could both freeze to death and burn up at the same time. No one really knows how far into space the coronosphere extends beyond what may pass for a surface. However the star is so large that it is the first star ever to have it's disk imaged other than the sun. I remember reading recently that it is in it's last days on the main sequence and could go nova in the next one million years, or tomorrow. Fortunately it would PROBABLY do little or no damage to Earth. They say. However it would shine as bright as a full moon for several years.

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 07:34 PM

My apologies Steve. I confess I have never found it a binocular object but then the seeing has to be quite remarkable according to most authorities I have just Googled on your advice. I am even more surprised to find that Neptune too can be a binocular object. The optics and seeing must be tremndous and I would imagine tripod mounted in the very least.

Nonetheless... I am sorry for my erroneous statement and apologise to all involved. That will teach me to think that because I have not been able to find it it is not findable in binoculars. Some evn say it is a naked eye object. Some must have remarkable eyes ;-)

Then again, I remember seeing the double double in Lyra one night with a 4.5" Newtonian that everyone said would not be possible. Some nights the seeing can be stupendous.

Thanks for correcting me

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: open mike
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 11:20 PM

lots of sky watching links here
http://www.seasky.org/links/skylink01.html
and here
www.spaceweather.com

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: open mike
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 11:37 PM

Every year around Oct. 8th, Earth passes through a minefield of dusty debris from Comet Giacobini-Zinner, source of the annual Draconid meteor shower. This year, forecasters expect Earth to narrowly miss several of the debris streams, resulting in no appreciable display for 2010. Next year, however, could be different. On Oct. 8, 2011, Earth will have a near head-on collision with a tendril of dust, setting off a strong outburst of as many as 750 meteors per hour. People in Europe, Africa and the Middle East will have a front-row seat for what could be the strongest shower since the Leonid storms a decade ago. Mark your calendar and, meanwhile, follow these links for more information: Draconid forecasts; sky map; history;

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Oct 10 - 03:37 AM

Jupiter and Uranus are very close just now.

Three conjunctions between these planets (see below) take place during the period indicated on the chart, i.e. on June 6th 2010, September 22nd 2010 (opposition day) and January 2nd 2011. On these dates, a line drawn vertically through the two planets (i.e. in relation to Celestial North) show them to be in alignment.

Having identified Uranus' location, the author recommends that Jupiter be positioned just outside the binocular field to minimise the likely effects of glare from that planet. Ideally, searches for Uranus should be carried out on Moonless nights, i.e. in the two-week period centred on the New Moon in any given month
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:HsYiYSYZYswJ:homepage.ntlworld.com/mjpowell/Astro/Naked-Eye-Planets/Uranus-

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 08 Oct 10 - 07:24 AM

Further to the above, it was at about 10.30pm last night, when Jupiter had moved to due south of me (as I say, in NE England) that the Great Red Spot became visable - at about 1 o'clock, close by it.

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 08 Oct 10 - 10:49 AM

We went out on the front porch last night with the new binoculars and a bird-spotting scope on a tripod.

The new nocs proved pointless. Too much shaking and no moons visible.

The spotting scope revealed two moons. (The other two might have been behind Jupiter.)

We have had a fine view of Saturn's rings with the spotting scope, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: alanabit
Date: 08 Oct 10 - 01:07 PM

The main problem with binoculars is that you need an exceptionally steady hand for them to be of any use for star gazing. You also need good neck muscles to look up for very long if the elevation is high. Because the disc moves out of sight quickly on a telescope, you need to either learn to readjust it quickly - which takes a little practice and skill - or to get a little tracking motor, which I am told does not need to be expensive. I think what I really want to do one day is to go to a proper observatory where someone else deals with all that and I just get to look through the eyepiece!

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 08 Oct 10 - 01:57 PM

Look out for your local Astronomical Society doiung winter evening viewings. As you get into October/November/December, many society hold open evenings where you can go, chat to more experienced amateur astronomers and look through their instruments. With the darker, earlier nights it is an excellent chance to avail yourself of the experience and advice offered by these open evenings.

I almost guarantee, as long as it is a clear, dry night, you will not be disappointed. Wrap up warm, take a flask of coffee/tea, and enjoy :-)

Astronomical Societies


mp

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Oct 10 - 03:19 PM

Well I can find Jupiter's moons with my bins even after a glass or, ahem, two, of Chile's finest. You do need a really clear sky and you need to do that thing where you adjust the focus of each eye separately. Simply grabbing someone else's bins, unadjusted for your own eyes, just won't cut it. Those moons are minuscule pinpricks and you need good, sharp focus. After binoculars, the next best astronomical tool is a deck chair. No neck strain or aching back to give your hands the wobbles (don't forget your duffle coat though). And anything above 8x magnification is completely useless for hand-holding.

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: GUEST,Skivee, far from home
Date: 08 Oct 10 - 10:49 PM

Jupiter and Uranus are pretty close together in this recent image. The exposure of Jupiter is blown out because of the much longer time needed to shown Uranus. Copy the image and show it enlarged to see the bigger moons of both planets. Uranus is the blue spot in the upper left.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/1010/UranusJupiter_knappert.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Oct 10 - 02:38 PM

To quote Lindisfarne, nowt but "Fog on the Tyne" the last couple of nights, rather than my usual "Valley Views".

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 07:50 AM

I thought the best part of the BBC's recent Stargazing Live series was the first few minutes, when they showed Jupiter, plus 4 moons, through a telescope, and the techniques for photographing suchlike.

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 08:18 AM

I really enjoyed those programmes. Dara surprised me by being such an excellent foil for the brilliant Brian Cox. The lady in Hawaii was slightly more hare-brained, but hey! As Ken Dodd might have said, Sir Jodrell Banks would have been proud. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 05:46 PM

Quite a while after Jupiter, the following constellation of stars (which would form a cross if joined) moves across the sky east to west, looking south (I'm in the north of England)...can anyone give me a name, please?


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Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 05:51 PM

Looks like Orion with a few missing.

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: s&r
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 07:07 PM

"can anyone give me a name, please?"


....so o o o tempted

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: gnu
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 08:07 PM

hehheheheheeee

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 04:50 AM

Thanks, Dave - I just found Orion in Wiki. to confirm it.

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 05:00 AM

Orion followed us home last night from Tyneside - coming into glory whilst re-crossing the Pennines on the A68/A685 in between snow clouds & blizzards but we stopped the car a few miles west of Kirky Stephen for a good look. Living in the towns & rural fringes you get very little of what's up there. Even last night I suppose we only got 40% at best - no Milky Way for example, but the nebula was pretty clear. I remember one time doing a gig up at Kielder Castle and going outside for a fag; a sky so full of stars I could barely make out familiar constellations and the Milky Way a sparkling dream. Mindblowing. So much we're missing with light pollution so hardly the wonder WAV's Orion looks a bit threadbare - it's probably all he can see through the yellow glow of the Tyneside conurbation.

Some believe Orion's Belt (the three stars visible even in WAV's diagram) to have influenced the placing of the three main pyramids on the Giza plateau. Seeing them in relation to the Milky Way one might be tempted to agree given the pyramids' relation to the Nile But long before that, the Thornborough Henges in Yorkshire were layed out in a similar fashion...   

Read all about it: Thornborough confirmed as worlds first "Orion Complex"

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 06:27 AM

More on Thornborough's Orion alignents:

http://www.friendsofthornborough.org.uk/press_release_14_feb_2006.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: Bron-yr-Aur
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 06:41 PM

I can see all of Jupiter's satellites with 10x50 bins. I have also managed to locate Uranus close by. If you look directly above Jupiter in the same field of view, the "star" you see is in fact the seventh planet. It is the last time the two planets will be together till about 2024.

Subject: RE: BS: Re. Jupiter
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 06:58 PM

Suibhne a chara.

If you think the night sky's difficult to see from Tyneside, you should try Greater London (I've tried both). I remember after having lived in the Smoke for some time, visting in-laws in Co Tipperary, coming home from a session at c 1am, and lying down on my back in the garden because I'd forgotten how many stars there were in the sky