BS: On Bullshit

Subject: RE: BS: On Bullshit
From: gnu
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 12:51 PM

"Anybody who tells me to buy American is a true bullshitter."

Yeah... I'll pick the bones outta that fish and see if I can swallow it.

As fer yer Ford being 100% "not-US", that kinda BS don't need no research if yer bullshit detector batteries ain't dead.

Subject: RE: BS: On Bullshit
From: josepp
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 02:47 PM

////Josepp, Why cite sources when your BullShit is self contained?////


This is what I'm talking about. You're just throwing darts in the dark and hoping you hit the target. What do you have that's concrete in this argument? I'd have to say nothing. If you have something, you haven't bothered to refer me to it.

////Since you have already admitted to being defeatist and an economic traitor, I have nothing left to prove.////

I never admitted to either. You said I SEEMED like a defeatist to you and my response is SO WHAT? You can make me seem to be anything you want if that gets your little rocks off but it has nothing to do with anything. And my point about American cars is that no matter what American car you buy, money goes to Japan--no exceptions. So I'm not inclined to listen to bullshitters whining about my patriotism when whatever car they bought put money in Japanese banks.

////As fer yer Ford being 100% "not-US", that kinda BS don't need no research if yer bullshit detector batteries ain't dead.///

I never said Ford was "100% not-US." I said Ford does not make anything that goes into their cars because they spun off their manufacturing sector as Visteon back in the 90s and the rest of their parts are Japanese and not even the Visteon parts are 100% American. You want to try again or do you think you've beaten your horse pretty dead by this time?

Subject: RE: BS: On Bullshit
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 03:44 PM

Josepp,

Tell you what, I'll take you seriously and answer your challenges after you answer this one with your citations....

>>Campbell isn't they only guy who writes about myths. There's Gerald Massey, there's G.R.S. Mead, there's Alvin Boyd Kuhn, there's Joscelyn Godwin, there's Albert Churchward, there's Jordan Maxwell. I like to cover my bases rather than put all the eggs in one basket. <<

Fair enough, Show me a quote from any one of them supporting this nonsense.

>>Myths aren't made up. They are handed down. As far back as you go, they are always there. It's like asking who was the first person to depict the heavens. We don't know. We've always been doing it. That's why older cultures refer to an Age of Heroes in our ancient past. Someone started it but it was someone far wiser than us who, for whatever reason, are no longer here. <<

Subject: RE: BS: On Bullshit
From: gnu
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 03:45 PM

josepp... you are right and I am wrong about no US in the Fords. I fucked up when I read "If he bought a Ford, he bought a car where not a single part is made by Ford because Ford does not make ANYTHING that goes in their vehicles anymore." I fucked up... plain and simple.

Seems to happen a lot with me lately. If only my mind was sharp enough to remember that I fuck up so much lately maybe I wouldn't fuck up so much in future. Ahhh... for what it's worth at this point, sorry about that... and, yes, I KNOW that doesn't cut the grass.

This crow tastes like shit... like it should.

Subject: RE: BS: On Bullshit
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 06:28 AM

Let me open up the debate still further. After about 6 pints in the pub we often find ourselves talking bollocks. Or, in extreme circumstances, utter bollocks. It is neither lying or bullshit. It may be partly true or it may not. Difficult to tell.

What are your views on this?

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: On Bullshit
From: josepp
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 10:28 AM

Never mind the bullocks, here's the [insert here].

Subject: RE: BS: On Bullshit
From: josepp
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 11:39 AM

Btw, there's form of bullocks in the US called "Springer." It may be true and it may not and it may be partially true. No one knows. Do you have "Springer" in the UK?

Subject: RE: BS: On Bullshit
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 11:51 AM

Do you have "Springer" in the UK?

Apart from one of the poorer imports, Jerry, no.

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: On Bullshit
From: Smokey.
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 05:02 PM

In the UK we have bollocks, cobblers, twaddle, piffle, tripe, drivel and shit/shite, all of which can be utter, complete, profound, unadulterated, pointless, meaningless or occasionally barmy. There may well be more, and I apologise for any omissions. Bullshit, I think, was originally imported here from the U.S. but is now fairly commonplace, possibly thanks to the film/TV industry. "Springer" is a new one on me, but I can say with some certainty that bullocks, along with heifers, are fairly large creatures sporting a leg in each corner which live in fields - if they're lucky.

Subject: RE: BS: On Bullshit
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 06:07 PM

Frankfurt came out with a monograph at least 8 years ago because I heard about it in '03. The monograph was available on the web and I downloaded a copy. It has since been expanded and made available for currency on actual paper.

It gets truly philosophical, hence the great majority of people haven't read it all the way through; what most people take away from it consist of parroting word blurbs on NPR and news briefs. josepp got it partially wrong in his first message opening this thread.

the distinction between a liar and a BSer is that the liar has enough respect for the truth to divert from it at a known distance (to the liar). A BSer has no respect for the truth at all, he or she is merely trying to convince someone of something. Could be true, could be not true. machts nichts. The BSer does not know and does not care.

If you are trying to convince someone you are not sleeping with his daughter, you are probably telling him lies provided you are sleeping with his daughter. But someone in the hospital telling you they feel like they've been hit by a ten ton weight is describing how bad they feel. No BS about it. BS would be your friend in the hospital asking you for an ice cream cone and telling you it would be healthy for them. Might be true, might not be true. What they really want is for you to get 'em an ice cream cone.

BS is also in the old lawyer joke:

"My dog didn't bite your son.
My dog doesn't bite.
Your son was wearing winter clothes.
My dog was chained up in the yard.
Your son was in your house.
And besides, I have no dog.
And you have no son!"

The BSer only wants to convince someone of something and will use any argument to get there. Facts are up for grabs and the laws of logic will be claimed but not necessarily applied.

BS is, thank you Mr. Colbert, 'truthiness'.

Sarah Palin's little Paul Revere speech on youtube is a prime example of BS.

In digital circuits, a signal wire can be high, holding a constant voltage like 5 Volts. A held voltage may correspond to '1' or 'true'. The signal can be low, or close to 0 volts. Corresponds to '0' or 'false'. But the wire may also be ungrounded, the voltage may wander all over the place. That is the techie analog of BS.

Subject: RE: BS: On Bullshit
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 06:44 PM

josepp... you are right and I am wrong about no US in the Fords. I fucked up when I read "If he bought a Ford, he bought a car where not a single part is made by Ford because Ford does not make ANYTHING that goes in their vehicles anymore." I fucked up... plain and simple.

Actually Gnu, you didn't, you were much more correct than our resident BullShitter, Vistion makes a small range of electronics and other replacement parts. They do not make major components, like Engines, chassis, frames and body panels, Most if not all, of the major parts are made in North America by Ford, Other major systems, may be made by Visteon, but may well be made by other parts suppliers.

A US made Camry, is almost as North American as an F150, except that the highest paid engineering and executive jobs are Japanese and the profits go to a Japanese company.

Subject: RE: BS: On Bullshit
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 07:43 PM

Regarding Allen Spaw Sherman's remark "If you tell The Truth, people will think you are lying and if you convince them you are telling The Truth, they will become suspicious. ", is my favorite.

It is what I count on when I repeatedly tell the truth. It has allowed me to do so with impunity and a protective cloak of unbelievability.

When I write the truth, in the BS section of course, there is seldom a single response to such an incredibly unlikely statement. If I were to broach the truth with "Oh please help me I don't think I can handle this..." there would be a handful of care givers, the white blood cells of our society, who would answer such a query.

Many a truth lies buried in humor and satire.

The beauty of satire is that you can speak of a situation outside your own sphere of influence and then drop a big heavy immovable truth in the middle of the satire making it more effective and potentially more outrageously funny.

Subject: RE: BS: On Bullshit
From: GUEST,Josepp
Date: 04 Jul 11 - 01:09 AM

///If you are trying to convince someone you are not sleeping with his daughter, you are probably telling him lies provided you are sleeping with his daughter. But someone in the hospital telling you they feel like they've been hit by a ten ton weight is describing how bad they feel. No BS about it. BS would be your friend in the hospital asking you for an ice cream cone and telling you it would be healthy for them. Might be true, might not be true. What they really want is for you to get 'em an ice cream cone.///

Sorry but I borrowed that example from Frankfurt's book except he has the woman say that she felt she as though she had been run over by a truck.