 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Bush vs Kerry: What Difference?
|
|
|
|||||||
|
BS: Bush vs Kerry: What Difference? |
Share Thread
|
||||||
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bush vs Kerry: What Difference? From: GUEST,Larry K Date: 02 Nov 04 - 01:21 PM Let's not forget about the 527's (like Moveon.org) that are spending 6 times as much on Democrats as they are on Republicans. George Soros and another guy (don't remember name) have each spent over 23 million dollars on the democratic 527's. (The largest reublican giver was in the 4 million range.) Does that bother any of you? Two guys giving 50 million dollars to the campaign and other of them not even an American. How much power do they control. I am sure glad we passed McCain Feingold that sovled all of these problems. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bush vs Kerry: What Difference? From: Don Firth Date: 02 Nov 04 - 03:09 PM akenaton, my apologies for my outburst in my last post of 01 Nov 04 - 09:11 PM. But you must be aware that calling me obtuse is not exactly a compliment, and it was partially precipitated by your remark about agreeing with Martin Gibson's assessment of me. As far as Marty is concerned, he does post an occasional rational comment on a music thread now and then, but beyond that, if I value his opinions at all, it could only be measured by a device sufficiently sensitive to be calibrated in nano-give-a-shits. As to our misunderstanding (and I think that's what it is) I believe that we are both on the same side, but somehow talking past each other. I'm hardly an "old lefty," but on a few occasions I've come up against the inequities of the Capitalist system (me versus the company) and generally lost. At one time, I regarded myself as fairly conservative, but some acquaintance with the real world changed all that. I won't go into the details here, but although I don't regard myself as a socialist either, I'm certainly not frightened by the word—or the actuality. There are a number of countries in which the quality of life of the entire population is superior to that in the United States (contrary to the belief of most Americans, especially those who haven't traveled much), and if you mention this to some Americans, their outraged response is "But they're Socialists!" That's their main objection. That, and "They pay higher taxes!" [Yes, but look what you get for those taxes!] Capitalism has produced many benefits, but unregulated Capitalism can be as much of an evil as fascism. In fact, unregulated Capitalism will inevitably lead to either fascism a sort of neo-feudalism. We're almost there now. We may even be there now. I've been involved politically one way or another since the McCarthy era in the early Fifties. I was a charter member of a folklore society organized in the early Fifties. We had been operating for a year when, in 1954, we sponsored a concert by Pete Seeger, who was under investigation by the House Un-American Activities Committee. We weren't thinking of politics at all, we just wanted to hear Seeger and have a chance to meet him. But times were so tense that few people wanted to be associated with an organization that could be viewed with suspicion because of a performer it chose to sponsor. Within two days after the concert, our membership shrank from well over a hundred to less than a dozen. That's when I first started taking a serious interest in politics. To make my position clear, I know that, in the United States, any kind of social change to a more progressive society will take time, quite probably a long time, unfortunately. It seems to go by fits and starts. Again and again, we make a little progress, then we fall back. It has been and will continue to be a long, hard struggle. Since the election of Ronald Reagan, the United States has been in a backward trend (alleviated somewhat during the tenure of Clinton). Reagan's stated mission was to reverse the progressive legislation Franklin D. Roosevelt managed to get passed in the Thirties and Forties, which was further supplemented during the Kennedy and Johnson administrations (civil rights, Medicare, a number of other things). Bush has taken up Reagan's banner with a vengeance and is determined to end such things as the Securities and Exchange Commission (oversight and control of stock market scams like Enron), the Federal Communications Commission (regulation and preservation of the public service use of communications technology), all environmental and social welfare programs, and even Social Security, one of the most successful and essential programs instituted during the Roosevelt administration. He has also taken on board the neo-conservatives' ideology of maintaining the United States present position as the world's only superpower and enhancing it, starting by gaining geopolitical control of the energy reserves of the Middle East. As long as the world is dependent on oil, the hand on the tap wields a huge amount of power. This latter, incidentally, is not some crackpot conspiracy theory on my part. It is clearly enunciated in their web site, and several members of the PNAC are in the top, most influential levels of the Bush administration. If Kerry wins, it will remove these people from their current positions of influence. This is why it is particularly important to do everything one can to see that Bush is defeated, even if it means replacing him with a candidate who is less than ideal. This, as I have said before, I regard as damage control. If your house is on fire, first, put out the fire! Then, you have some time to think about repairing and remodeling. It's a wizened old cliché that "the journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step," but if you're going to make that journey at all, you can't just sit back and hope that someday you'll reach your destination. You'll never get there if you don't take that step. And another, and another. Where the analogy falls down is that, in our current political situation, if you don't take today's step today, you'll slide backwards. That was what I was referring to when I asked what your solution is: what would you suggest be done today? I think that's a reasonable question to ask. In any case, the election is in progress and we'll know shortly what the outcome is. But no matter what that outcome, if we are ever to see a truly civilized society in this country, I think it's relevant now to consider what our next steps should be. Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bush vs Kerry: What Difference? From: Once Famous Date: 02 Nov 04 - 03:26 PM Personally, Don I think that you are the way you are because you are a mainstream loser and just overall an unhappy person who sadly is kind of just playing out his days by preaching on an internet site like this to anyone that will listen. I'm pathetic? Don, take a look at yourself before you ridicule others. I take a lot of things in life seriously. One that I don't, is having philosophical hard-ons about the world according to myself, especially here. thanks for commenting positively on my music related posts. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bush vs Kerry: What Difference? From: GUEST Date: 02 Nov 04 - 03:59 PM "That was what I was referring to when I asked what your solution is: what would you suggest be done today? I think that's a reasonable question to ask.' It is a reasonable question to ask, Don. The problem is your entrenched position that only your position is the right position on what we should do today. I'm off to do what I have intended to do for some today: vote for serious political change by voting for Ralph Nader. And as to my decision of what to do today, I know you not only disagree Don, but up to this point you haven't even been willing to accept that there may be more than just one thing to do that would be "right" in the current political climate. In other words, you could agree to disagree, instead of carrying out cyber-pogroms against those who won't vote for Kerry. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bush vs Kerry: What Difference? From: akenaton Date: 02 Nov 04 - 04:16 PM Don...I am the one who should apologise to both yourself and Martin. It was crass of me to bring Martins name into our disagreement. I did enjoy the exchange of views and hope for further disagreements in the future. Best Wishes Ake |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bush vs Kerry: What Difference? From: Don Firth Date: 02 Nov 04 - 04:58 PM Okay, Ake. No sweat. Here's to exchange of ideas. We all learn that way. But Marty, your assessment of me is way off base. I'll give you .003 nano-give-a-shits on this one. I'm the way I am because I'm an avid reader, I've lived a bit, and I'm interested in the way the world is going, not just for myself, but for others, including my progeny and, for that matter, yours. I'm quite happy with the way my life has gone and the way it's going now. Me? A loser? Not hardly. I've done most of the things that I really want to do, but rather than simply playing out my days, I'm still leading a busy life, doing the things I enjoy doing, especially now that I'm retired. Rather than being old and feeble as you like to characterize me, I'm quite healthy, and if family longevity has anything to do with it, I have many years to go yet. I enjoy having enough miles on my clock to be able to look at the world with a little perspective. "Preaching" on an internet site, as you call it, is merely taking part in a legitimate exchange of ideas. I read far more than I write. And my time on the internet (and not just on Mudcat) occupies only a small part of my busy life. By the way, I didn't say you're pathetic, you just did. And I'm not ridiculing anyone who hasn't already amply rendered himself ridiculous. Actually, Marty, I feel a bit sorry for you. I don't have to get my jollies by behaving like a jerk, but that seems to be your main recreation most of the time that you're logged on. Maybe we should confine our exchanges to the music threads. We do seem to get along fairly well up there. And GUEST, you characterize my position (and anyone else with whom you disagree) as "entrenched." Well, yes, I've thought about it a great deal, and I do think I'm right. That's why I voted the way that I did. If that makes me "entrenched," then so be it. But just to make it clear, it's obvious that you're just as "entrenched" as I am. Isn't it possible to disagree with me—and others—without being insulting about it? And I'm hardly carrying out "cyber-pogroms." Actually, considering the number of threads you've started, sometimes several a day, all on the same basic theme ("Don't be a stupid two-party clone! Vote for Nader! Anybody who doesn't is a brainwashed idiot!"), and the way you respond to anyone who doesn't buy your viewpoint without question, I'd say that you are the one who is the main aggressor here. But if voting for Nader is what you really feel is the right thing to do, then I'm certainly not going to send any storm troopers to stop you, even if I could. "Cyber-pogrom?" From Merriam-Webster online:That's a little over the top, don't you think? Go vote. Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bush vs Kerry: What Difference? From: Once Famous Date: 02 Nov 04 - 05:09 PM OK, Don |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bush vs Kerry: What Difference? From: akenaton Date: 02 Nov 04 - 05:16 PM What a great day for the USA.. Fuck Bush and Kerry.....Don and Marty Are re-united |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bush vs Kerry: What Difference? From: GUEST,BO Plenty Date: 02 Nov 04 - 06:48 PM Amos: another brick in the wall. We don't need no education We don't need no thought control No dark sarcasm in the classroom Teacher, leave those kids alone Hey, Teacher, leave those kids alone! All in all it's just another brick in the wall All in all you're just another brick in the wall BO |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bush vs Kerry: What Difference? From: GUEST,Joe Date: 03 Nov 04 - 10:12 AM Bush............ again!!!!! As my old pappy used to say (to many crazy events): "It can only happen in America son" Yea - but you sorta hope one day the US will come to it's senses. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bush vs Kerry: What Difference? From: GUEST,Joe Date: 03 Nov 04 - 10:38 AM Message to Don Firth - been reading your posts, and my heart goes out to you mate. My advice to you is don't try to fight it 'cause it's never going to happen. Your country is a lost cause. Emigrate while you still have your health. Ireland is the place to be - Why? The people The music The food The black gold The air The scenery Join all those Irish-Americans who have already woken up to the realization that the land of milk and honey their fore-fathers emigrated to was just a poisoned chalice - they got wise, and went back home. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bush vs Kerry: What Difference? From: Don Firth Date: 03 Nov 04 - 01:40 PM Well, GUEST,Joe, you have a point, and you certainly make an attractive case. My great-grandfather came to the Pacific Northwest from Orkney with the Hudson's Bay Company in the 1850s. I've always wanted to see the British Isles in general, and my wife gets positively misty-eyed at the idea. I get the impression from occasional travel programs on TV that there are pubs all over Ireland where you can get together with other musicians and play 'til your fingers drop off. Am I depressed or angry about the outcome of the election? No. Just kind of weary. I feel that this country is headed in a dangerous direction. Corporation control, dismantling of social programs, imperial ambitions, alienation from the rest of the world. . . . After the past four years of obvious lies and deception, how half of the country can keep this administration in office is beyond me. I wish someone could explain to me just what the hell they mean by "traditional moral values." Invading people's bedrooms and telling them what they can and cannot do? Actually, my tendency is to blame the Democratic Party for not giving the electorate a clear and consistent alternative. Emigrate? I'm thinking about it. Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bush vs Kerry: What Difference? From: GUEST,BO Plenty Date: 03 Nov 04 - 09:47 PM Take those Kennedys with you please. BO |
