BS: Jeans to be outlawed!

Subject: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 10 Jun 09 - 08:54 PM

Indian colleges ban jeans to 'protect' girls

Colleges in the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh said Wednesday that female students would be banned from wearing jeans and other Western clothes to halt sexual harassment by male classmates.
"Girls who choose to wear jeans will be expelled from the college," Meeta Jamal, principal of the Dayanand girls' college in Kanpur city told AFP. "This is the only way to stop crime against women."

A growing number of colleges in Uttar Pradesh have decided to outlaw jeans, shorts, tight blouses and miniskirts on campus in an attempt to crack down on "Eve-teasing" -- as sexual harassment is known in India.

But many of the students, who are aged between 17 and 20, said the new rules punished innocent females rather than tackling the men who treated women badly.

"Banning any clothing will certainly never solve the issue of sexual harassment," said Uzma, a graduate student from Lucknow University who declined to give her full name.

Hindu extremist groups have in recent months attacked women drinking in pubs and threatened couples who make public displays of affection.

The vigilantes claimed they were acting to protect India's conservative values against the spreading influence of Western culture.

Some colleges elsewhere in the country have previously banned the wearing of jeans, but protests from students forced the dress regulations to be reversed.

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Nick
Date: 10 Jun 09 - 08:57 PM

All women should be ugly and all men should be blind.

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Nick
Date: 10 Jun 09 - 08:58 PM

And vice versa.

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 10 Jun 09 - 09:00 PM

"All women are beautiful: Some are just more beautiful than others." RAH

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Nick
Date: 10 Jun 09 - 09:07 PM

Especially my wife :)

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Jun 09 - 09:20 PM

So where did you plagiarize that from?

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: frogprince
Date: 10 Jun 09 - 09:26 PM

Shame on you, Nick, for saying that some women are more beautiful than your wife!

Oh, you meant...

Sorry,...nevermind...

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: frogprince
Date: 10 Jun 09 - 09:30 PM

I believe it was an old judge in Wisconsin, some years back, who proclaimed that he would never convict a man of rape while women were running around dressed provocatively. The immediate case involved a young woman wearing jeans and a sweater. He wasn't on the bench for long after that.

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 10 Jun 09 - 09:33 PM

I put it in quotes, and gave the initials of the author- sorry if some did not notice. Not exactly plagiarization.

Robert Anson Heinlein

There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him.


It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics.


The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 10 Jun 09 - 09:44 PM

(More Heinlein)

"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it."

"When any government, or church for that matter, undertakes to say to it's subjects, this you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motive."

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Jun 09 - 10:24 PM

"College in Kanpur ban jeans on campuses to check eve-teasing."
"Four colleges for women in Uttar Pradesh's Kanpur district have prohibited their students from wearing jeans on campus, citing the move will check eve-teasing incidents." DCC principal Jamal says boys "indulge in uncouth behaviour, particularly with girls wearing body-hugging jeans. It's a routine affair here."
The college is planning a dress code.
The four colleges are affiliated with Kanpur University. [Kanpur state has about 4 million inhabitants. Uttar Pradesh has about 190 million].
Students consider the decision illogical. "If they want to check eve-teasing, they must approach the police, said .... a DDC student..."

So what's new? Many schools below college levels in U. S. and Canada, esp. private schools, have dress codes. Many colleges also have regulations against provocative clothing.

http://www.indiaedunews.net/Uttar_Pradesh/Colleges_in_Kanpur_ban_jeans_o_campuses_to_check_eve-teasing_8343/

Article in India edunews.net, National Network of Education.

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jun 09 - 10:30 PM

Very good stuff there from Mr Heinlein, BB.

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Jun 09 - 10:49 PM

It is very regrettable that Heinlein's work slipped, over the years, from merely right-wing science fiction (eg "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress") into self-satirising lunatic free-marketeer and sexist soliloquising (pretty well any later book including Lazarus Long as a character). As for the first quote from him, above, it is quite idiotic. If that is the worst tyranny, what of extermination, sterilisation, internal exile on reservations, homogenisation as happened to the aborigines in Australia, the excesses of the Court of Star Chamber - and indeed the backward-looking religious lunacies of the Taliban?

As to college policies, many religions (and societies based on them) have tried to compel women to dress "modestly", but I don't know of any societies in which the display of consumer goods in shop windows has been held to justify theft.

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Amos
Date: 10 Jun 09 - 11:36 PM

POssibly he followed his train of thought further than you were willing to do yourself, Richard. I find his later works extremely creative and interesting. I grant you he gets a little monotone about the anti-prude sexuality theme, but recall the times in which he came of age.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 12:09 AM

There are societies where men and women go almost nude all the time. Such people have ways of showing sexual interest and sexual receptivity which have nothing to do with exposing the body.

I believe that governments etc which demand that women hide their hair or their bodies have no real interest in women or in values. Their goal is to make a woman feel like a second-class citizen. Also to make her feel that she's responsible for anything any male feels. A ridiculous idea!

If they want to do good, they should teach that sex is a mutual activity, with sexual interest and sexual receptivity expressed gracefully and with respect.

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 04:31 AM

So can we outlaw those jeans that young boys and men wear (and they are by no means confined to young black men.. I've seen all colours and creeds wear them), that have the crotch in the knee area and the waistband around the "lower hips"...? They must surely inflame a few female senses (not mine, I just want to yank them up into a nice denim wedgie and tie the belt tight) and make them think naughty thoughts. Mind you... there was a good one on the Tube the other week; Exchange type student with jeans around his arse, exposing a good 5" of blue underpant - on which was printed a waistband, seam and back pockets of a pair of jeans!

When you have a society that refuses to acknowledge half its members, then you have a society doomed to oppression, regression and ultimately failure.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 04:47 AM

I prefer to see publicly worn religious paraphenalia banned for the opposite reason, so that young WOMEN (because it is exclusively woman that receive the aggression) cannot be assaulted by male peers, for *failing* to don them. I believe some campuses have adopted this approach.

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 06:06 AM

Jeans are harder to handwash than trousers, less comfortable, and they shrink in the dryer.

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 06:09 AM

Are cheaper and last longer

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 06:10 AM

PS, no, I thought that Heinlein finished up a silly old goat.

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 06:27 AM

PS: poor pockets, too!

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 09:09 AM

"Girls who choose to wear jeans will be expelled from the college," Meeta Jamal, principal of the Dayanand girls' college in Kanpur city told AFP. "This is the only way to stop crime against women."




Reminds me of Thurber's fable about the foxes 'protecting' the chickens.

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: frogprince
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 10:15 AM

Gotta put a stop to all the sexual assaults that occur at nudist resorts...

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 10:36 AM

"The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion." Arthur C. Clarke

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 12:08 PM

Again, perhaps an overstatement?

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 12:12 PM

How can it be an overstatement when it has "may be" in the middle?

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 12:24 PM

""All women are beautiful: Some are just more beautiful than others."

All animals are created equal (some are more equal than others)

- Animal Farm, George Orwell

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: meself
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 01:22 PM

Must have been a slow news day ... and a slow "BS day" on the 'cat ...

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 03:26 PM

Having "may" in a sentence doesn't mean it can't be an overstatement.

"There may be six million people living in my front room".

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 03:35 PM

I thought you meant Jean Ritchie. Big deal - we were not allowed to wear pants suits nevermind jeans in college in the 60s.
Why not slap jail time or castration on any man who is incapable of controlling his impulses (read rapist)?

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 03:43 PM

"Why not slap jail time or castration on any man who is incapable of controlling his impulses (read rapist)?"

fine with ME...but there are too many sympathetic male legislators & judges who see themselves as just barely able...

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: gnu
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 03:51 PM

Tight jeans only reduce testosterone if the male wears them. Perhaps REALLY tight jeans should be mandatory for males?

Nah... males would still fuck a snake if they could get enough gravel in their hands.

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 04:17 PM

"...males would ..."


***SOME males...***

(who, me? pedantic? naaawww....)

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 04:19 PM

I think you'll find castrati went out of fashion before jeans came in.

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: meself
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 04:32 PM

When I was a little kid, BOYS were not allowed to wear "blue jeans" to school. Anyone who cares to use that as the occasion for a rant, please do.

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 04:42 PM

As I say, I prefer trousers, but I bet this thread ends on a high note.

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 04:56 PM

meself, that depends on where the school was. They were acceptable where I went to school (New Mexico).

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Art Thieme
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 06:32 PM

This reminds me of the time in the 1970s when cancer researchers put very tiny leisure suits on mice trying to see if leisure suits caused that disease. Some of the mice did develop that dreaded malady and those garments were summarily outlawed.---And that, THEY say, is why those garish garments are no longer around in these enlightened times. --- Before the minute mice exhibited their disease, though, they were seen to be dancing around their cages wildly whenever disco music was on the radio. --- Two of the mice, the ones that were cured, paired off, had several litters, and became Scientologists.

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: meself
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 08:44 PM

I didn't mean to imply that the situation re: blue jeans in my neck of the woods was universal, although what I wrote could certainly be taken that way. I should have been more specific. I'm not sure exactly when the policy changed in my elementary school; I think by the time I was grade five or six, blue jeans were tolerated. By the time I was in grade eight, I think girls were allowed to wear jeans. This was in the 'sixties.

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: gnu
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 08:51 PM

So the other mice had blow genes?

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: GUEST,Mark-s (on the road)
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 09:54 PM

Careful - If jeans are outlawed, only outlaws will have jeans. But hey - at least you will be able to tell who they are.
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 10:09 PM

bb, the plagiarism I meant was the article in your first post which has no quotation marks nor attribution, nor any of your own words.

I found it Here, Copyright © 2009 AFP. All rights reserved.

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 02:54 AM

All the comments saying 'so what I couldn't wear jeans at school' are entirely missing the point of the thread. The *reason* that you couldn't wear jeans wasn't due to assertions from your school that they couldn't prevent you being sexually harassed or assaulted if you did. It would simply have been due to issues of 'smartness' which boys and girls *equally* would have had to abide by.

The slippery slope of forcing innocent girls to change their clothing (considering jeans are not exactly 'sexually provocative' items of clothing), instead of targeting male sexual harassment, means in the long term, virtually anything could be considered 'provocatory'. Including wearing your hair down, or showing your face - as indeed is now becoming more common for Muslim women, on campuses in UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 03:49 AM

Agreed

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: meself
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 09:23 AM

This confession may come as a shock, but, unlike the rest of you, I am sure, I know nothing about "the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh". However, that does not mean that I will unquestioningly believe whatever I read of the place. I have no idea if the unattributed story cut-and-pasted here is completely true, half true, or a cynical fabrication. There are several journalists whose work I have come to trust, after following it for many years; I try to maintain considerable skepticism toward the work of the rest of them - and especially so when the effect of one of their stories is to make the reader feel indignation or contempt toward some bunch of brown-skinned people on the other side of the world - or close to home for that matter. If you have ever been near a situation that has inspired a news story, you may have seen how far the story can be from the reality. So, I hope you will forgive me if I have not worked myself into a lather over the issue of the dress code of the colleges of Uttar Pradesh.

Btw, what may constitute "'sexually provocative' items of clothing" is culturally relative, entirely.

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 10:49 AM

Yeah, well if you are uncertain of sources then we may take this as a 'hypothetical situation' then.

As for jeans being 'sexually provocative' I think India is pretty culturally eclectic now, and has taken on aspects of much standard Western culture as normal. Ocurrances like this (admittedly unverified) one, represent to me a regrettable regressive reaction against, the increased cultural acceptance and adoption of, typically Western standards of sexual equality in ordinary Indian society.

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 11:44 AM

Well said, Crow Sister

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 01:14 PM

If you look way up this thread, there is a link to the news item in "India Educational News." plus a couple of quotes from that report about 'eve-teasing'. It helps to read earlier posts before commenting.

I didn't make a blue clicky to the report, but I will try it here (a long one and I can't cut-paste) If it doesn't work, just go to google and look up India Educational News: India educational news

Kanpur campuses

Uttar Pradesh, as I posted, has 190 million people, and Kanpur state is only a small part of it.

There is a follow-up article, "Speaking Out in Anger- empower students, don't ban jeans," June 11,2009. One student said the colleges should focus on training women in martial arts.

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 01:46 PM

I think that they should worry more about cramming knowledge into their brains rather than worry about what they wear. Considering that many of them will simply end up as baby making machines, I put this in the same league as the "colleage announcement" for staff announcement in our local Sainsbury's supermarket!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Jeans to be outlawed!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 03:47 PM

Oh, my, the usual ignorance about education needs in large corporations, regardless of their function.
Sainsbury's, like all major food chains, needs economists, specialists in food and non-food technology, human resources, pharmacology, product development, logistics, investment and finance, even lobbying, if it is to stay competitive.
These must be educated, well-spoken people, and college graduates are sought after.