what does mudcat think of froots

Subject: what does mudcat think of froots
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 03:03 PM

?

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 03:04 PM

It's worth perusing now and then.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 03:12 PM

Not a lot.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 03:13 PM

I have a number of gay friends.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 03:18 PM

I guess its a magazine to do with music and possibly folk and roots music?
I did ask on another thread.
The chap who runs it is Ian Anderson, a name familiar to me from a group called Jethro Tull.
Is it the same guy?
Sorry for this display of ignorance....

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Continuity Jones
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 03:26 PM

I like it (fRoots). I cancelled my subscription years ago (for reasons I described in another thread - basically because of the editor's rampant ego), but I feel it's a lot more open now - more about the music and less about him and his personal take on the music. Some cracking writers also; Cronshaw, Irwin, etc.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Slag
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 03:27 PM

First and probably the last time I have ever looked at the site.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 03:29 PM

The guy who runs it made a number of albums under the name of Ian A. Anderson - perhaps to avoid confusion with Ian The Anderson.

(Sorry. Couldn't resist it.)

What I think of fRoots? I like the look of the forum; there are somem good discussions going on there, with some of my friends from Mudcat posting. I'd register myself if I could.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 03:59 PM

I like it a lot more than I like Mudcat at the mo...

Tim, it's a different Ian Anderson (see here) but I don't blame you for the confusion having shared it myself!

Pete.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 04:00 PM

Cheers Pete..

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 04:00 PM

fRoots is a fine and all encompassing music periodical.
It has been around for decades, and I have learnt a lot about music from arond the world.
I think that the Originator of this thread has a personal arguement with the Editor.
Maybe he should take it up personally.
For me. fRoots does the job it set itself up to do. I like it,I also like Living Tradition and EDS too.
I contribute to sites like this, and fRoots too, and Concertina.net.
Have met many friends by this means.
What is there to complain about?
There are far more muppets lurking on Mudcat than on the fRoots message board.
And, like Ian. I won't name names.
Don't think I have to really.
An old friend popped up again today!
If all of you who pontificate about how dreadful fRoots is.
Well......You just try doing it yourselves.
And do it for 30 odd years......
No?
Didn't think so.
So, If you don't like it.....Don't buy it. SIMPLES!

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Vic Smith
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 04:06 PM

I would have thought that is is an unnecessarily provocative thread. The folk/roots/world music scene is a fairly small pond compared with the big wide ocean of the mainstream music industry. We need all the oxygen of publicity that we can get and if the fish in this pond don't learn to get on with one other, then the poison this that it is generating could kill all the fish in it.
fRoots is the only news stand magazine that gives prominent coverage to this type of music in this country. It is the only one that appears regularly having never failed to meet its copy date in 328 issues. It covers all aspects of roots music from the hardcore traditional right through to the Mumford and Sons & Laura Marling who are claiming to be 'folk'. The prominent current thread on the fRoots forum has Ian agonising whether some of these new names should be included or whether they are usurping the word 'folk' for their own purposes. It is by and large a discussion that has been carried on without rancour though Ian's remarks about the quality of some of the contributions to Mudcat have raised hackles on the parallel thread to this (even though the majority opinion on that thread, including that of the founder and moderator of Mudcat is that Ian is correct.)

Max complains about 'dogma' on Mudcat and it should be fairly obvious that there is plenty of this on the forum he started. If people don't like fRoots then start up an alternative and make it better and more commercially viable rather than moaning here. Alternatively, if you don't like the articles that the magazine publishes, then submit some of your own. He can only publish what is submitted to him; he has always published everything that I have written for him over the years which suggests to me that there is not an over-supply for him to choose from.

A comparison could be made with the EFDSS. It was undeniably in the doldrums in the 1990s. Along comes Folk Arts England run by Steve Heap and his crew. Mainly aimed at the organisers and activists, it was quickly successful and it made the EFDSS take note and buck its ideas up. It is still not a perfect organisation and claims that it is too metro-centred are valid. Nevertheless seeing what FAE was achieving gave the EFDSS the jolt that it needed.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 04:10 PM

Ralphie, you indulged in two of the statements I hate most in internet discussions - "No? Didn't think so" when the right to debate the point hasn't been offered and "Simples" as a claim to closure. You only needed an "ad hominem" to make my eyes swivel.
If you'd have put "Er, hello" followed by "LOTS OF CAPITAL LETTERS AND AN EMOTICON" you'd have gone into my black book.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 04:11 PM

My own ugly editorial is that there are a few of us who have an interest in traditional songs and tunes...

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 04:36 PM

"I think that the Originator of this thread has a personal arguement with the Editor.
Maybe he should take it up personally."
no, I have not,
I have always got on OK with Ian, when I have met him in the past.
Vic Smith, dont be ridiculous,its no more provocative than guest grumpy, starting a thread about mudcat.
I asked a question. I did not give my opinion.
I am not surprised with the reaction from Ralphie ,who regularly tells people whose opinions he doesnt share to Fuck off.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Vic Smith
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 04:59 PM

That is precisely the sort of reaction that I am asking people to avoid, Dick. I do not feel that I am being ridiculous in calling for an atmosphere of co-operation.
I am calling for an outbreak of common sense and fellow feeling.
I am trying to make the point that opting for confrontation rather than discussion does not further the cause of our music.
Of course you have the right to start this or any thread. What I am asking for is that enthusiasts for this music use this public forum in a way that brings credit to the music. The British folk scene is a wonderfully friendly loose association of acquaintances and friends and I would like to see this reflected more accurately on Mudcat.
I wish you well, Dick, and I would like you to respond to this posting in a way that is not perjorative to my opinions and brings credit to yourself. - please.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 05:14 PM

To be fair, folkies in the flesh are by and large a pretty friendly group. If they hold reactionary opinions they make a good job of hiding them in public. Unfortunately, and somewhat surprisingly, there's not much internet competition so Critics Group fundies rub along with singer song writer groupies and the broad sweep of informed and spontaneous opinion in between.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 05:27 PM

Well I like his music anyway... Just got a huge bill for the car or would be tempted to subscribe to the digital version of froots it looks very good.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 05:29 PM

no problem Vic, I have respect for you and all your work running a folk club for many years.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Vic Smith
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 06:02 PM

Thanks, Dick. Let's lighten things up a bit, eh? I think that we have to realise that musicians in general need to be aware of the impression that they make. Believe it or not, this impression is not always favourable. Take, for instance, this video.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SURma5PlfGs

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Will Fly
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 06:10 PM

LOL! Vic!

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 06:17 PM

I once let a house to musicians. Everything was new, kitchen, carpets, furniture, beds, better than my own place. They trashed it in three years and wanted to find a new place. I said okay and when they left took the opportunity to re-fit the house. When I did they said they couldn't find anywhere better and could they have their place back. You may guess my answer.

Funny video, Spot on.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 06:40 PM

"I am trying to make the point that opting for confrontation rather than discussion does not further the cause of our music."


Oh poo.. ;0)

Once Upon A Time, in the Land of Confrontation, formerly known as the BBC F&A board, there was lively and passionate discussion, brought about purely because of The Confrontation.

Then, it was turned into The Land of Discussion, and The Confrontational Ones were banished from the Kingdom, for ever and ever, ahhhh men!

All began to go quiet in The Land of Discussion, because those with nothing to say, other than to The Confrontational Ones, began to say nothing...and those watching from outside The Kingdom got bored rigid and started to fall away in dribs and drabs..until barely anyone was left.

Eventually The Land of Discussion became the Land of Silence...and the Queen of the Kingdom begged for people to return to The Land, but so few did that The Land of Silence became The Land Of a Distant Memory, where folks gathered to remember the times when once, long long ago, The Kingdom had sparked and sparkled with wit, humour, anger and a confrontation of such proportions that many sought out, and started to love The Music which was being argued over....

Memories, and furthering The Cause are made of this....

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 06:51 PM

fRoots is basically essential, in my view

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Vic Smith
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 06:53 PM

One interpretation certainly.... another one might be that those in the The Land of Discussion were dissatisfied with the lack of development of thoughts and ideas that The Confrontational Ones did their best to prevent and opted to have their internet conversations elsewhere.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Steve Hunt
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 06:54 PM

I subscribe to fRoots and can't imagine being without it.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 06:57 PM

Great video Vic - posted it on FB

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 07:00 PM

Ah, but those who wanted to discuss were allowed to. That was what was so strange, Vic...but not so strange as to why, when they had The Land entirely to themselves they all stopped discussing anything at all....

Ho hummy, eh?

Terribly boring on the fRoots board. It's Intellectual Folk on there, a whole new genre started off by Cecil Sharply and The Boys. There's very little humour to be honest, unless Papa Anderson makes a joke, whereupon all his peasants fall over sideways in helpless laughter, whilst congratulating him with adoration...which is a polite way of saying...........

;0)

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 07:16 PM

A question for Vic Smith, why do you think the fRoots message board has so few contributors and so few discussions ?

Dave H

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 07:29 PM

I subscribed to Froots for years but cancelled the subscription many moons ago when the mag apparently lost interest in English/Irish/Scottish and went all worldly. I buy a copy approximately once every couple of years these days to see what's going on but I find I have hardly heard of anyone in it even if they're not worldly. It's just me not keeping up and them needing to make dosh I suppose. Should I mourn? I doubt it. There's always beer. And I hate anything Bellowbloodyhead-related, which probably doesn't help.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 09:16 AM

Mudcat is a forum, it can't think anything of Froots regardless of what contributors here think. It certainly can't reach a consensus.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Vic Smith
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 09:21 AM

A question for Vic Smith, why do you think the fRoots message board has so few contributors and so few discussions ?

Dave H

A very interesting question. There certainly seems to be a reduction in postings on that forum, just as there has been on other Mondomix-based forums such as Sounds of the World and my impression - no data to back this up - is that other specialist message boards are suffering a decline in usage. Certainly, the BBC Folk & Acoustic recently closed down citing much reduced usage and other specialist folk music boards that I peruse seem to have fewer visitors than previously.

My opinion is that this is related to the rise and rise of the all-singing, all-dancing boards such as Bepo and particularly Facebook. In the swiftly changing world of internet sites, those where you cannot easily post videos and photos quickly seem to be a bit clunky and out-of date. It is also clear that MySpace which was in a dominant position for musicians only five years ago now have a greatly reduced number of visitors across their whole vast site and Rupert Murdoch, who thought he had a bargain when he bought it is now known to be very unhappy with his purchase. Meanwhile, Mudcat in spite of all its much-discussed problems associated with the attitude of some contributors seems to continue to thrive. The main problem with the vast multi-national sites like Facebook is that it is possible for all sorts of scams to be carried out and identity theft happens on both MySpace and Facebook as I know to my cost as the loathsome BNP has included both Tina and I as supporters on their vile cause. Despite many attempts to remove these malicious postings, I was just told that it was a matter between me and the person who posted it. The one time a lie about me appeared on Mudcat, I emailed Joe Offer and it was quickly removed.

Coming back to the fRoots Forum, it seems to me that despite the reduced level of postings, the overall feel of the board has become more serious; perhaps the more trivial, jokey comments have been transferred to Facebook. I would think that this is true in my own case.

I think that there has been a tendency for the percentage of postings on fRoots Forum to be from the known artists, activists. journalists. movers and shakers seems to have increased in recent times and it may be that this discourages entry-level posters. Certainly the figures show that the number of lurkers has increased greatly compared with the number of posters.

Thank you for your question, Dave, I found it thought provoking.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Vic Smith
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 09:25 AM

I should have included a mention for Twitter in my second paragraph as another feature of a rapidly changing world.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Stu
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 09:28 AM

Their festival edition is often excellent and the CD's are always quite good but seeing as I'm stony broke at the moment I save my shillings for Living Tradition which is more centred around the Isles and The Wire which doesn't up the cover price for their excellent CD's.

I'm off to listen to Laura Marling now, then perhaps Noel Hill and Tony Linnane . . . ah the joy of folk.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: G-Force
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 09:58 AM

I always used to enjoy reading it, even though much of the content held no great interest for me. In fact I had every issue from Southern Rag no. 1 until about two years ago.

Then I became a non-public-employee pensioner, and my fRoots subscription was one of the luxuries which became a thing of the past.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 12:12 PM

Thanks for your reply Vic, I can't understand it myself, the BBC Radio 2 message board was moderated out of existance, and as much as I dislike Ian Andersons attitude to the Mudcat, the message board had some intelligent subjects and lively debating but it seems to be dying, a puzzle ?

Dave H

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 12:29 PM

Ian over mods it. And...the folks who 'meet' on there, are a small band of regulars, the *exact* same ones who got me banned from the BBC and who tried so hard to do exactly the same in here, but thankfully, freedom of speech rules here, as does open discussion of almost anything under the sun...

I love the BS section, have learnt so many fascinating things from it, as well as from the music section too, although I don't come 'oop top' nearly as often as I once did..But down below there are some wonderful threads with great contributions from incredibly witty, intellingent and darn funny writers. They so often make me laugh out loud.

Mudcat is a community. fRoots is a 'club'.
There is a world of differnce twixt the two.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 02:29 PM

There appears to be a clash of egos involved here.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: GUEST,999
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 04:45 PM

I think froots are good for people, along with fibre and eight glasses of scotch a day.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: GUEST,999
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 04:46 PM

Sorry. That should read water,not scotch--no offense to the topers out there.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 05:30 PM

Always add water to my whisky, it brings out the flavour of the dram.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: mattkeen
Date: 08 Oct 10 - 10:11 AM

Good magazine -
I subscribe, but like others I also like EDS and Living Tradition

Its all part of the mix

FWIW - there has been a lot of features about English/British folk musicians in froots over the last 2 years or more - many over them on the cover to

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Vic Smith
Date: 08 Oct 10 - 10:48 AM

What Ian has always been good at is reflecting where the current interest is... and that is why there is so many features about English/British folk musicians, particularly the younger ones who are coming and giving us their very different take on the music. It's also why he has been able to produce a magazine that has sold well over 30 years.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: olddude
Date: 08 Oct 10 - 10:57 AM

What about shine my brother?

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Max
Date: 08 Oct 10 - 11:14 AM

Wow, this is a much more thoughtful thread than I was expecting.

Vic says it right:

The folk/roots/world music scene is a fairly small pond compared with the big wide ocean of the mainstream music industry. We need all the oxygen of publicity that we can get and if the fish in this pond don't learn to get on with one other, then the poison this that it is generating could kill all the fish in it.

I don't believe in mudcats or froots, I believe in folk.

coo coo ca choo.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: olddude
Date: 08 Oct 10 - 11:19 AM

and blues Max

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Oct 10 - 04:23 PM

I bought a few issues. I am not interested in African or South American or Ukranian music. I stopped.

I am interested in English folk music (and song).

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Oct 10 - 05:45 PM

"What Ian has always been good at is reflecting where the current interest is... and that is why there is so many features about English/British folk musicians, particularly the younger ones who are coming and giving us their very different take on the music. It's also why he has been able to produce a magazine that has sold well over 30 years." quote
so, why is he cash strapped.
why does he have a bias towards younger English/British musicians?
surely if he was just interested in promoting good music, he would not be concerned with promoting people particularly because they were young.[ that is ageist]
Vic, you state Ian has always been good at reflecting where the current interest is...., can you back that statement up with proof, or is it a case of IAN artificially creating an interest.
I am not saying that it is, I am asking questions, and also questioning your attempt to make your opinion ,appear as fact
what you choose to believe as fact, may or may not be the case.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Oct 10 - 06:07 PM

Dick, I have a good friend who, for many years, has had his own business (based in Lille). His business has been acting as a major consultant and advisor to the newspaper industry - presenting market research reports, doing research, advising on marketing strategies, etc. - worldwide.

He mentioned to me months ago that the whole newsprint industry is in serious recession and serious trouble, not only from the increasing effects of the internet, but also as part of the overall global financial meltdown. His own business has shrunk drastically as a result of this. The major players - with interests in TV, radio, etc. - are surviving, and the smaller fish are struggling. It matters not a jot how well things may have gone in the past - the here and now of it is another matter.

Subject: RE: what does mudcat think of froots
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Oct 10 - 06:24 PM

Clash of egos, I reiterate.